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Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2014,10:38) Quote (942767 @ June 02 2014,04:25) Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2014,08:32) marty
you say;;
What scriptures say that he sent his only begotten Son down from heaven to be born of mary, according to the flesh?this is the right understanding from scriptures,why are you not understand it
scriptures are not written the way you ask them to be written ,but you know that ,because you have some understanding ,FOR WHAT MAKE YOU SO SURE THAT CHRIST CAME AND THAT HE REALLY IS THE SON OF GOD
IS NOT MADE AS FAITH IN THE MULTI COMPONENTS IN SCRIPTURES THAT DESCRIBE HIM TO IT IS ,WHAT ABOUT YOU
That is not what the scripture states.So, why should I understand it that way? It is the scriptures that dictate what I believe. If it says that, post the scripture and I will be convinced.
Love in Christ,
Marty
MartyI going to let Mike spell it to you ,I do not have his qualities
but what I said is true ,the only reasons why so many of us are seeing in the scriptures what they see and understand or believe what they assume to be true ,is based on the indoctrination in religion and have no will to drop all things like Paul did and become one with the truth that only comes from God and his son
What you said is true only if the scripture agrees with what you are saying. It has nothing to do with having Mike's qualities. You can read, can't you?How can you agree with Mike, if there is no scripture to support what he is saying?
I don't care about your opinions relative to religion being the reason for my not understanding the scriptures the way that you are saying that they mean.
I have to answer to God for what I teach and so do you. You aren't the judge.
Love in Christ,
MartyQuote (942767 @ June 01 2014,15:10) Hi Mike: You say:
Quote scriptures that say God sent His only begotten Son DOWN FROM HEAVEN to be born of Mary………. ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. What scriptures say that he sent his only begotten Son down from heaven to be born of mary, according to the flesh?
That he came down from heaven is true.
I was using a combination of three or four different scriptures, Marty.1 John says God sent His only begotten Son into the world.
In John 6, Jesus himself tells us that he came down from heaven.
Various scriptures say he was born of Mary. And various scriptures say he was the seed of David………. according to the flesh.
It seems you agree that Jesus came down from heaven, but then you start rationalizing things again. In your mind, Jesus could only have “come down from heaven” in a way that aligns with your own personal preferences.
But John 6:38 eliminates all that rationalizing, Marty. In that verse, Jesus himself POINT BLANK tells his listeners that HE came down from heaven to do the will of his God.
He later tells those same listeners that some of them will see him ascend to where he was before.
And still later, some of them actually DO see him ascend to where he was before.
You can rationalize scriptural teachings like this until you're blue in the face, Marty. But no amount of human rationalizing is going to make those scriptures go away, or make them teach something else.
Jesus was the Word who became flesh. He was existing in the form of God before emptying himself and being made in the likeness of a human being. God sent His firstborn Son into the world. That Son came down from heaven. That firstborn Son was also the firstborn of EVERY creature, and God created all things in heaven and earth through him.
This is what the scriptures teach. Some men don't like what they teach, and so they try to mold the scriptures around their own beliefs. But in the end, it is all for naught.
Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,15:44) He said when he was in the Synagogue and his mother came looking for him: “don't you realize that I must be about my Father's business”?
How old was Jesus when he said those words, Marty? I wonder how many of his peers of the same age would say such a thing.Quote (Ed J @ June 01 2014,15:55) Thanks Mike, It's good when we agree!
It's good FOR YOU when we agree, Ed. Because those are the times that you are aligned with the truth of the scriptures.
(Btw, you're the confused little guy on the left. That's me on the right, bouncing some scriptural sense into you. See how happy that makes both of us?)
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,16:22) Hi Ed,
Yes God fathered Jesus and Mary supplied the egg so in this way his parenthood was not exclusively of God.He came SON OF MAN.
The Spirit makes him exclusively SON OF GOD and we can follow him into this sonship.
See how the story just got a little more involved, Ed?If it's broken, just add more moving parts to confuse and appease everyone. What the hell……. it works for the Trinitarians, right?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,16:42) The sonship to God inthrough Mary also made him a Son of God as flesh.
But that sonship did not anoint or empower him.
But it WAS still a “sonship”, right Nick?And that means Jesus was the Son of God long before the Jordan.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2014,10:41) Quote (Ed J @ June 02 2014,09:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2014,09:22) Hi Ed,
Yes God fathered Jesus and Mary supplied the egg so in this way his parenthood was not exclusively of God.He came SON OF MAN.
The Spirit makes him exclusively SON OF GOD and we can follow him into this sonship.
Hi Nick,You mean “the spirit of Christ” in him right?
God bless
Ed J
Hi Ed,
Right.
Hi Nick,“not my will(spirit of Christ),
but thine(Spirit of God), be done” (Luke 22:42)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (942767 @ June 01 2014,18:02) How can you agree with Mike, if there is no scripture to support what he is saying?
But now I've pointed you to the scriptures I used to make that statement, right Marty? So there should be no more issues with it, right?(If you need me to quote the exact words I used in my statement from those 3 or 4 scriptures, let me know.)
Quote (Ed J @ June 01 2014,19:12) Hi Nick, “not my will(spirit of Christ),
but thine(Spirit of God), be done” (Luke 22:42)
Yes Ed,Two different WILLS equal two different PERSONS.
One of the wills belonged to the one who came down from heaven. (Jesus)
The other will belonged to the One who sent him into this world. (God)
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2014,12:05) Quote (Ed J @ June 01 2014,15:55) Thanks Mike,
It's good when we agree!It's good FOR YOU when we agree, Ed. Because those are the times that you are aligned with the truth of the scriptures.
(Btw, you're the confused little guy on the left. That's me on the right, bouncing some scriptural sense into you. See how happy that makes both of us?)
Hi Mike,So agreeing with your opinions equates to agreeing with Scripture? Are you getting like Wakeup now?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ June 02 2014,07:26) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2014,12:05) Quote (Ed J @ June 01 2014,15:55) Thanks Mike,
It's good when we agree!It's good FOR YOU when we agree, Ed. Because those are the times that you are aligned with the truth of the scriptures.
(Btw, you're the confused little guy on the left. That's me on the right, bouncing some scriptural sense into you. See how happy that makes both of us?)
Hi Mike,So agreeing with your opinions equates to agreeing with Scripture? Are you getting like Wakeup now?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
edjis our faith not to be aligned with scriptures rather than men ,so that all men that are lined up together form one spirit in Christ and not in themselves
Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2014,12:10) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,16:22) Hi Ed,
Yes God fathered Jesus and Mary supplied the egg so in this way his parenthood was not exclusively of God.He came SON OF MAN.
The Spirit makes him exclusively SON OF GOD and we can follow him into this sonship.
See how the story just got a little more involved, Ed?If it's broken, just add more moving parts to confuse and appease everyone. What the hell……. it works for the Trinitarians, right?
Hi Mike,I notice when I ask the hard questions, their answers become more incoherent.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2014,12:22) Quote (Ed J @ June 01 2014,19:12) Hi Nick, “not my will(spirit of Christ),
but thine(Spirit of God), be done” (Luke 22:42)
Yes Ed,Two different WILLS equal two different PERSONS.
One of the wills belonged to the one who came down from heaven. (Jesus)
The other will belonged to the One who sent him into this world. (God)
Hi Mike,Righto
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2014,12:12) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,16:42) The sonship to God inthrough Mary also made him a Son of God as flesh.
But that sonship did not anoint or empower him.
But it WAS still a “sonship”, right Nick?And that means Jesus was the Son of God long before the Jordan.
Hi MB,
Yes from conception Jesus was a son of God and Mary.Quote (terraricca @ June 02 2014,12:28) edj
is our faith not to be aligned with scriptures rather than men ,so that all men that are lined up together form one spirit in Christ and not in themselves
Hi Pierre,What exactly are you saying here?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgHi MB,
You say
“I was using a combination of three or four different scriptures, Marty.”A patchwork quilt??
2Cor 13 .1
Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 02 2014,12:33) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2014,12:12) Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,16:42) The sonship to God inthrough Mary also made him a Son of God as flesh.
But that sonship did not anoint or empower him.
But it WAS still a “sonship”, right Nick?And that means Jesus was the Son of God long before the Jordan.
Hi MB,
Yes from conception Jesus was a son of God and Mary.
We three seem to be in agreement here.Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 02 2014,11:56) Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,15:10) Hi Mike: You say:
Quote scriptures that say God sent His only begotten Son DOWN FROM HEAVEN to be born of Mary………. ACCORDING TO THE FLESH. What scriptures say that he sent his only begotten Son down from heaven to be born of mary, according to the flesh?
That he came down from heaven is true.
I was using a combination of three or four different scriptures, Marty.1 John says God sent His only begotten Son into the world.
In John 6, Jesus himself tells us that he came down from heaven.
Various scriptures say he was born of Mary. And various scriptures say he was the seed of David………. according to the flesh.
It seems you agree that Jesus came down from heaven, but then you start rationalizing things again. In your mind, Jesus could only have “come down from heaven” in a way that aligns with your own personal preferences.
But John 6:38 eliminates all that rationalizing, Marty. In that verse, Jesus himself POINT BLANK tells his listeners that HE came down from heaven to do the will of his God.
He later tells those same listeners that some of them will see him ascend to where he was before.
And still later, some of them actually DO see him ascend to where he was before.
You can rationalize scriptural teachings like this until you're blue in the face, Marty. But no amount of human rationalizing is going to make those scriptures go away, or make them teach something else.
Jesus was the Word who became flesh. He was existing in the form of God before emptying himself and being made in the likeness of a human being. God sent His firstborn Son into the world. That Son came down from heaven. That firstborn Son was also the firstborn of EVERY creature, and God created all things in heaven and earth through him.
This is what the scriptures teach. Some men don't like what they teach, and so they try to mold the scriptures around their own beliefs. But in the end, it is all for naught.
But no, Mike, it is you who is rationalizing trying to Make the scriptures say what you think that they mean.He did not say that the Father sent him down from heaven to be born of the flesh? If it doesn't then who is rationalizing?
This is the scripture:
Quote John 6:62
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?The “son of man” will ascend where “he was before”. He was not the son of man until he was born of the virgin Mary, and so, what is meant by this statement?
He states that he is the living bread that came down from heaven, and then he makes the following statement:
Quote Jhn 6:51
I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.His flesh came down from heaven in that he was conceived of he Holy Ghost in the womb of the virgin Mary, not before, but he was with the Father in the sense that God knew that a precise point in time, he would be born into this world. He was foreordained.
Quote 1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
1Jo 1:2
(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)Quote 1 Peter 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear: 18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
And the Jews did not understand what he was saying, and many walked away because they did not understand how anyone could eat his flesh and drink his blood.
And so, he explains to his disciples what he was saying by the following verse of scripture:[/quote]
Quote John 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you? 62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
And so, he is actually speaking about the Word of God, that spirit of the Son which gives life unto the world, but it is through his body that the Father would speak to humanity, and all of this has come to us from the Father.
He said this from the start that he began to speak about him being the bread of life that gives life to the world.
Quote John 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
But he was speaking about the spirit, the Word of God, that was with the Father from the beginning, the spirit of the Son, which would give life to the world because he would obey the Word of God without sin unto death on the cross, and be resurrected and ascend to the Father.
But the Word of God was not spoken through him until his ministry after he was baptized in water.
And John 17 states this as Jesus speaking:
Quote 12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13 And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
Love in Christ,
Marty
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