Firstborn of/over all creation

[kerwin]

Mary,

I believe he was given the gifts of the Holy Spirit when the Spirit descended upon him like a dove as he committed no wonders that are testified in Scripture before he was immersed.

It is possible that happened after he went through the time being tempted by Satan in the desert. If so it was very much like a Native American vision quest which may reveal both had common roots.

I favor the earlier time because the gifts are given to show who is approved of God and God's words at the time Jesus was immersed.

[Ed J]

Quote (Wakeup @ June 01 2014,14:25)

Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,10:23) Quote (Wakeup @ May 30 2014,02:59) Anyone that does not believe that Jesus is Holy, the spirit is not right in Him. There are many Holy men; and yet Jesus is not Holy?? This I can not bear. wakeup. Wakeup: Of course, he is Holy, but that is not what you said initially is it? You stated that “he already had the Holy Spirit dwelling within him at birth”. Love in Christ, Marty Is that true or false? wakeup.

Hi Wakeup,

Jesus had “the spirit of Christ” from his birth, he was baptized with
God's HolySpirit at the Jordan river after John water baptized him.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Quote (Wakeup @ June 01 2014,14:44)

Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,14:36) Quote (Wakeup @ June 01 2014,14:25) Quote (942767 @ June 01 2014,10:23) Quote (Wakeup @ May 30 2014,02:59) Anyone that does not believe that Jesus is Holy, the spirit is not right in Him. There are many Holy men; and yet Jesus is not Holy?? This I can not bear. wakeup. Wakeup: Of course, he is Holy, but that is not what you said initially is it? You stated that “he already had the Holy Spirit dwelling within him at birth”. Love in Christ, Marty Is that true or false? wakeup. Hi Wakeup: What you said initially, that Jesus had the Holy Spirit from birth is false according to the scriptures. That he was Holy at birth is true.  He was born in innocence under the Law of Moses.  He had no sin. Love in Christ, Marty Elizabeth's baby leaped when Mary greeted her. So you truly believe that Jesus was with no Holy Spirit, for thirty years? true or false? wakeup.

Hi WU,
Scripture says this about John
Lk1
13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John.

14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth.

15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.

It does not say that about Jesus.

The jumping in the womb is because JOHN was anointed as a prophet by the Holy Spirit before his birth. It had nothing directly due to Jesus.

[NickHassan]

Hi Ed,
Scripture says this about John BUT NOT ABOUT JESUS.

“he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb”

So where are the scriptures that support what you state

“Jesus had “the spirit of Christ” from his birth,”
??

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
Scripture said this about Jeremiah but not about Jesus

““Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
And before you were born I consecrated you;
I have appointed you a prophet to the nations.”
6 Then I said, “Alas, Lord [a]God!
Behold, I do not know how to speak,
Because I am a youth.”
7 But the Lord said to me,
“Do not say, ‘I am a youth,’
Because everywhere I send you, you shall go,
And all that I command you, you shall speak.
8 “Do not be afraid of them,
For I am with you to deliver you,” declares the Lord.

9 Then the Lord stretched out His hand and touched my mouth, and the Lord said to me,

“Behold, I have put My words in your mouth.
10 “See, I have appointed you this day over the nations and over the kingdoms,
To pluck up and to break down,
To destroy and to overthrow,
To build and to plant”

The Jordan was when Jesus was anointed in the Spirit.

[Ed J]

Hi Nick,

“the spirit of Christ” is the spirit of the Son
and the HolySpirit is the Spirit of the Father.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
The word was with God and the Word was God.

The Spirit of anointing is what Jesus received at the Jordan
making him the Son of God alone

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,16:28)

Hi Ed, Scripture says this about John BUT NOT ABOUT JESUS. “he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb” So where are the scriptures that support what you state “Jesus had “the spirit of Christ” from his birth,” ??

You can reject this scripture to fefend your believe
If you please.

Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in
***all things he might have the preeminence***.

wakeup.

[NickHassan]

Hi WU,
Those who are reborn into the Son accept and follow his rulership over them-he is the head of the Body.
He is the first to be resurrected -and the sons of the resurrection become one with him.
He is appointed and anointed Lord of all and above all worldly rulers.

[Ed J]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,17:42)

Hi ED, (1)The word was with God and the Word was God. (2)The Spirit of anointing is what Jesus received at the Jordan making him the Son of God alone

Hi Nick,

1) Yes, “The Word” is God's HolySpirit
2) Making him the firstborn son among many brethren.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[NickHassan]

Hi ED,
The Word was with God.
The Spirit has many braids

[Wakeup]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,19:20)

Hi WU, Those who are reborn into the Son accept and follow his rulership over them-he is the head of the Body. He is the first to be resurrected -and the sons of the resurrection become one with him. He is appointed and anointed Lord of all and above all worldly rulers.

But he is not the first to have the Holy Spirit??

But John is??

Rejecting what is in scripture again.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 31 2014,14:09)

Hi MB, So you are attempting to make him different so you can justify your idea that another god came to earth?

“Attempting to make him different”, Nick?

Did I INVENT the claim that Jesus had no earthly father?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 31 2014,16:55)

Quote (mikeboll @ 64) It's because “God's Son”, “The Word”, and “Our Lord Jesus Christ” are all the same exact being. I already stated that the Word of God pertains to Jesus, and it through obedience to the Word of God unto death unto sin that his spirit was formed………

I'm happy to see that you've come this far, Marty.  But the Word doesn't just “pertain to” Jesus.  The Word literally BECAME the flesh person who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.  That is what the scripture states, right?  Or am I lying?

And who exactly was the ONLY flesh person to dwell on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son?  Why Jesus, of course.  And since we know that answer, then we know that John 1:14 says, “The Word BECAME the flesh man Jesus”.

Not “came to be IN Jesus”.  Not “pertained to Jesus”.  But BECAME Jesus.

Add this “pertained to Jesus” thought you have with your other thought that “Jesus became the Word”, and you are seriously close to the truth that the scriptures actually teach, Marty.

Now you just have to accept the words John actually wrote, and believe that the Word literally BECAME the man Jesus who dwelled on earth with the glory of God's only begotten Son.  Then you will be there, my friend.  

Quote (942767 @ May 31 2014,16:55)

Revelation 19 states that “his name is called “the Word of God” not that “he is the Word”.

Semantics, Marty.  Jehovah told Abraham that his name shall no longer be called Abram.  That meant that Abraham ceased to BE Abram.

Marty,

Here is a list of 215 times that same kind of language is used in the scriptures.

“Adam called his wife's name Eve…….”

“he called the name of the city Moab….”

“Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam….”

“He shall be called the God of the whole earth……..”

There are 215 of them on that list, Marty.

And your answer is, Well Mike, she isn't REALLY Eve, it's just that her name is called that.  It isn't REALLY the city of Moab, it's just that its name is called that.  We aren't REALLY “mankind”, it's just that God called us that.  And He isn't REALLY the God of the whole earth, it's just that He is called that.

That is a lame answer to Jesus being “called” the Word of God.  

I've shown you this point before, but now I'll add to it…….

If Jesus is called by the name “the Word of God” in Revelation 19:13, then why can't John 1:1 and 1:14 (which were written by the same person) also be referring to the person who is called by the name “the Word of God”?

See?  Even if you want to make a big deal out of the “name is called” thing, it doesn't prohibit the PERSON whose name is called “the Word” in Rev 19:13 from being the PERSON whose name is called “the Word” in John 1:1, and 1:14……….. does it?

Quote (942767 @ May 31 2014,16:55)

Isaiah 9: Quote 6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus IS a wonderful counselor.  Jesus IS a mighty god.  Jesus IS our everlasting BENEFACTOR (father).  And Jesus IS the Prince of Peace.

His “name is called” those things because he IS those things.  Just like his “name is called” the Word because he IS the Word.  

(For the “everlasting benefactor” part, see the last page or two of the Mike, journey, and Wakeup Only thread, where I've explained this, using scriptures, to Wakeup.

If you would like to discuss the “benefactor” meaning of “father” in Is 9:6 more deeply, let me know.)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 31 2014,17:28)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 01 2014,06:40) Did Isaac have an earthly father, Nick?  Jesus didn't. Mike: Of course he had an earthly Father, Joseph, his stepfather, but we know that he was not born of the sperm of Joseph, but was conceived by the Holy Ghost, in the womb of the virgin Mary.  He is unique in that way.  And it was in God's Wisdom that he was foreordained to be born that way, because all men born of the sperm of man have sinned, and fallen short of the glory of God, and no one can boast that his salvation is based upon his own works. But the scriptures also state that he was born of the seed of David after the flesh. Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,

Your post says it exactly as it is.  A regular old man couldn't not have redeemed us.  Jesus had to be unique.

He had to begin his existence upon the earth in a way that was different than the way the rest of us begin our existences on earth.

Now you just need to BELIEVE the scriptures that say God sent His only begotten Son DOWN FROM HEAVEN to be born of Mary………. ACCORDING TO THE FLESH.

Bottom line:  Jesus WAS different from the rest of us – even when he was on the earth.  So you guys can put away your personal wishes of empowerment, that are based on Jesus being just like you, and start BELIEVING what the scriptures actually teach.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (942767 @ May 31 2014,21:28)

Quote (kerwin @ June 01 2014,14:08) Since John the Baptist whom was yet in his mother's womb and of about 6 months from his conception was able to through the spirit recognize Marry was the mother of the Messiah Jesus was able to bear the fruit of the Spirit at the same time. Hi Kerwin: The scriptures state that about John the Baptist, but it does not say that about Jesus. …….when Jesus was being tempted of the devil, he had aleady been baptized and had received the Holy Spirit.   He did not have it until then.  If he already had it from birth, why did he have to receive it again? Love in Christ, Marty

Marty,

Jesus received the Holy Spirit IN FULL at his baptism. That is not to say he was led by the Spirit his entire life.

What do you think led him to the synagogues to discuss scripture with the elders at such a young age?

What do you think led him to John the Baptist in the first place? Who told him he must be baptized by John in order to “fulfill all righteousness”?

You only need to think these things out.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 31 2014,23:28)

Hi Ed, Scripture says this about John BUT NOT ABOUT JESUS. “he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb” So where are the scriptures that support what you state “Jesus had “the spirit of Christ” from his birth,” ??

John was born of a sinful earthly father, and yet had the Holy Spirit from his mother's womb.

Jesus was CONCEIVED OF the Holy Spirit, yet had none?

Come on guys…………

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ May 31 2014,23:47)

Hi Nick, “the spirit of Christ” is the spirit of the Son and the HolySpirit is the Spirit of the Father.

That is correct, Ed.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,00:42)

Hi ED, The Spirit of anointing is what Jesus received at the Jordan making him the Son of God alone

So the fact that God is the one who actually CONCEIVED Jesus in the womb of Mary didn't make Jesus God's Son?

Come on, Nick…………

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ June 01 2014,02:20)

He is the first to be resurrected -and the sons of the resurrection become one with him.

Funny how you understand “firstborn from the dead” to mean Jesus was the “first to be resurrected”…….. but you can't understand “firstborn of every creature” in the same manner.

Can anyone say “BIAS”?

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