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Hi MB,
Jesus did not come in the flesh
He was the son of Mary and of flesh already when The Spirit filled him at the Jordan.Then he became Jesus Christ
Quote (942767 @ May 23 2014,19:18) But does “firstborn” mean “born” or does it mean created?
Either/or, Marty.You were “born”, and yet you are also a “creation” by God.
Jesus is also said to have been both “born” and “created”.
There is nothing special about using “born”, “begotten”, “brought forth”, or “created” as interchangeable synonyms.
The fact that Jesus was “born” doesn't prohibit him from being a “creation” anymore than the fact that YOU were “born” prohibits YOU from being a “creation”.
Hi MB,
Do you not yet understand that the Spirit of Christ is of and in the Spirit of God?
You seem to be as bewildered as the natural men the Spirit in Jesus spoke to.Quote (942767 @ May 23 2014,19:18) Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 23 2014,11:23) Quote (942767 @ May 22 2014,11:27) Jesus is a created being? Where is the scripture that supports this statement?
Revelation 3:14 NWT
And to the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ce′a write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God……Micah 5:2 NIV
“But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times.”Proverbs 8 NET Bible
8:22 The LORD created me as the beginning of his works, before his deeds of long ago.8:24 When there were no deep oceans I was born, when there were no springs overflowing with water;
8:25 before the mountains were set in place – before the hills – I was born………
Colossians 1 KJV
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Hi Mike:He is the first person ever to be born of God, and he is the firstborn as God's heir, and God has forseen all things prior to beginning to create the heavens and the earth and everything that would inhabit them.
And so, yes he was foreordained to come forth into this world as the savior of God's children from before the world began.
The part of your post I quoted, and the rest of it that I didn't quote here, is just a bunch of human rationalization to make the words of the scriptures NOT mean what they so clearly DO mean.Marty, the scriptures are posted above. You can either believe those scriptures, or spend your life trying to find other abstract and less likely things those words might also mean.
I don't need to work that hard. If Paul says Jesus is the firstborn of EVERY CREATURE, I have no reason to assume he means anything other than, “Jesus is the one who was created first”.
And when Paul backs up that statement by teaching that ALL THINGS – IN HEAVEN AND ON EARTH – VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE – were created THROUGH that one who was created first, it is a no-brainer for me.
You, on the other hand, have personal wishes to consider……. so it might take you a little longer to arrive at the simple truth taught by all the scriptures I posted above.
Quote (gadam123 @ May 24 2014,00:09) But as long as you don't support Trinitarian concepts it is very difficult to say God's Spirit and Jesus(Christ) Spirit one and the same because both of ou ybelieve that God and Jesus are two different personalities. NT even mentions 'spirit of Jesus' as well as 'spirit of his(God's) son'.
Don't overthink it, Adam.Read Phil 2:5 for the answer. To have the “mindset” that Christ also had is to have the “spirit of Christ”.
It means we must also have Jesus' humbleness, willing to sacrifice, zeal for God above all else, ambition to step out of our own comfort zones, etc.
The “spirit of Christ” isn't a literal spirit. It is more like having “team spirit”. When a fan has “team spirit”, it is not a literal spirit that comes to dwell inside certain fans.
To have the spirit of Christ is to be willing to do all the things he did. What Paul said in Phil 2:5 is saying the same thing, but with different words.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2014,01:04) Hi GD,
The Word was with God and was God.
Such a statement is not possible if the Word was another sentient being as natural men claim
The statement that “God” was with “God” isn't possible, Nick.That is a very flawed translation of Greek words which were meant to tell us that Jesus was with THE God in the beginning, and was himself a god.
If the Word was God Himself, then John 1:1 teaches, “In the beginning was God. And God was with God. And God was God.” How ludicrous.
Hi MB
Jn2
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
Who said this?
Did God? Yes
Did the Spirit?-Yes
Did Jesus? YesIf you only hear the man you will never grasp scripture
Quote (gadam123 @ May 24 2014,01:26) Spirit of Christ(Anointing)
The “spirit of Christ” is indeed the spirit of JESUS Christ, Adam.Don't be fooled by the “anointing” thing Gene often posts. The Greek word “christos” means “anointed”, not “anointing”.
When it speaks of the “spirit of Christ”, it is talking about Jesus' spirit. It is not literally one and the same as God's Holy Spirit – just like the “spirit of Adam” is not literally one and the same as God's Holy Spirit.
But the Holy Spirit, the spirit of Christ, and the spirit of Adam all come from the same source. So they are “one” in that sense, but not literally all the same.
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 24 2014,03:35) Hi gadam,
Jesus became the second adam, the firstborn of the new creation of God of men living in the Spirit.
Scripture please? (Especially the “NEW” part of your claim.)Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,13:34) Hi MB, Jesus did not come in the flesh
1 John 4:2
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.Do you want to re-word your statement, Nick?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,13:56) Hi MB,
We know you cannot accept this scripture-it's wisdom is greater than your logic.
Are you talking about John 1:1? I haven't “escaped” it, Nick. What I've done is “OVERCOME” the insanely illogical way Trinitarian translators render it in most English Bibles.But you are free to go on believing that, “In the beginning was God. And God was with God. And God was God.”
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,13:58) Hi MB
Jn2
19 Jesus answered and said unto them…………..Who said this?
Read the words I bolded and underlined, Nick. That is your answer.Hi MB,
As I thought- your ears only hear human voices.Was Jesus going to build his building up again?
Was he going to resurrect himself?Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2014,07:07) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,13:34) Hi MB, Jesus did not come in the flesh
1 John 4:2
This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,1 John 4:3
And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.Do you want to re-word your statement, Nick?
Hi MB,
Be more careful with accuracyJesus Christ came in the flesh
Quote (mikeboll64 @ May 26 2014,06:34) Quote (942767 @ May 23 2014,19:18) But does “firstborn” mean “born” or does it mean created?
Either/or, Marty.You were “born”, and yet you are also a “creation” by God.
Jesus is also said to have been both “born” and “created”.
There is nothing special about using “born”, “begotten”, “brought forth”, or “created” as interchangeable synonyms.
The fact that Jesus was “born” doesn't prohibit him from being a “creation” anymore than the fact that YOU were “born” prohibits YOU from being a “creation”.
Hi Mike:I believe that I have already discussed this with you elsewhere. I was born of the first Adam's seed which the sperm of man, specifically of my earthly father, Jesus also was born of the seed of man, specifically of the seed of David after the flesh, but he is obviously not the “first Adam”, the first of this creation of God.
He is the “last Adam” and is the first of this creation of God, the first man, to ever be born of God, and the first man to be born again from the dead, and many more, you and I and whosoever believeth of the first creation will also follow and become like the “last Adam”.
And, he is the “firstborn” of all of creation in that God has exalted him to that position as the head of the church, and he has been given all authority over heaven and earth, and he is the only way that anyone can come to the Father, and God has appointed him to be the judge of the living and the dead.
You are using the NET bible translation of proverbs 8:22 which uses the word “created”, and the KJV uses the word “possessed”, which I believe is more accurate, in that Jesus was foreordained before the world and the host thereof was created.
“All things were made by him, and without him was nothing made that was made”. “All things were made by him, “AND FOR HIM”. HE IS THE HEIR OF ALL THAT GOD HAS MADE” and we are joint heirs with him.
And so, I guess it just depends what translation you are reading?
Love in Christ,
MartyHi MB,
The new creation is from the dead who are reborn
Colossians 1:18
And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.Hebrews 12:23
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,Hi MB,
.Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.So it was the Spirit that raised Jesus and he did not raise himself.
Jn2
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.Can you see now that it was the SPIRIT that was speaking in Jn 2
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 25 2014,15:20) Hi MB,
Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.So it was the Spirit that raised Jesus and he did not raise himself.
Read it a little more closely, Nick. God is the one who raised Jesus from the dead.And it surely wasn't GOD, or even GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT, that was talking about their BODY being the new temple that would be raised in three days, was it?
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