Firstborn of/over all creation

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,

Not a hard concept is it?

John 14:10
Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

15.Matthew 10:20
For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 22 2014,08:31)

Hi MB, He was conceived. No surrogacy

Nick

this you have to explain how you know that

please tell me ,tell all of us ,

In my understanding the conception in both cases are required to bring forth a birth of a child ,unless you know another way ;the need of a women body is required to finish the process

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,

Or put another way

John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

.John 8:38
I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

.John 12:49
For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

.John 12:50
And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
More than a womb.
An egg with genes.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
The Spirit of Christ is one with Jesus.
Would you try to divide what God has joined together?

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Same as with Elizabeth

.Luke 1:24
And after those days his wife Elisabeth conceived, and hid herself five months, saying,

.Luke 1:31
And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus.

.Luke 1:36
And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren
.
.Luke 2:21
And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

So Jesus was not sent from heaven-Jesus Christ was

[terraricca]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 22 2014,08:38)

Hi MB, Or put another way John 8:28 Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things. .John 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. .John 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. .John 12:50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Nick

who was it that lifted Jesus up

NET ©
Then Jesus said, 1  “When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, 2  and I do nothing on my own initiative, 3  but I speak just what the Father taught me. 4
NET © Notes
1 tn Grk “Then Jesus said to them” (the words “to them” are not found in all mss).

[NickHassan]

Hi T,
.John 8:28
Then said Jesus unto them, When ye have lifted up the Son of man, then shall ye know that I am he, and that I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I speak these things.

He was lifted upon a cross, and later lifted up into the heavens

[NickHassan]

Hi,
Those who think Jesus was another god who was sent to earth will struggle with the fact he was conceived

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,20:31)

Hi MB, Indeed the Spirit of Christ spoke through him. And so all the natural men became and still remain confused.

Nick,

A SENTIENT BEING said, “I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.

And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all those he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”

Who was the sentient being that said those words, Nick?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Yes Jesus Christ said that.
The Spirit was speaking through him of course

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Can a man speak of his life before conception??

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
Jesus was a man, not a god
Acts 2
22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
God anointed a man.
Acts 10
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
You should ascribe glory to God for everything Jesus said or did.
1.John 7:16
So Jesus answered them and said, “My teaching is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,20:31)

Hi MB, He was conceived. No surrogacy

And in my analogy concerning Gabriel being sent to earth to be born of a human woman, could we say that Gabriel was “conceived of Helen” – even though he had lived for eons in heaven before being “conceived of Helen”?

If not, what WOULD we call the process by which Gabriel came to be inside of Helen's womb?

Listen Nick, a person is typically only “created”, “conceived”, and “born” one time in their life.

But we know that we will be born AGAIN. We become new CREATIONS. You could also say that in order to enter the kingdom of God, we must be CONCEIVED again, of water and spirit.

So what you think is a great “defense” is really not so much.

Btw, I notice you taking this discussion further and further from the questions I asked you. Please don't do that, Nick. Don't be like Wakeup and Daniel, who run from the questions that show their understanding to be flawed, and instead opt for posting even more and more DIVERSIONS to move us farther from those questions.

You said the “all things” that came from God in 1 Cor 8:6 are literally “all things” – just like it says.

I want to know why you believe that the “all things” that came through our Lord Jesus Christ are NOT the very same literal “all things” that came from God.

Stop running away. Stop and defend your doctrine…….. if you can.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,21:03)

Hi MB, Yes Jesus Christ said that. The Spirit was speaking through him of course

So then the SPIRIT was the sentient being who had his own will, but came down from heaven to do God's will instead?

YES or NO?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,21:06)

Hi MB, Jesus was a man, not a god Acts 2 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

I agree that Jesus was most definitely a man while he was on earth. In fact, we know from scripture that he emptied himself and was MADE in the likeness of a human being.

But is “man” the ONLY thing Jesus ever was?

Isaiah 9:6
For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders.

And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God……….

Hebrews 1:8
But about the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.”

You can't just pick and choose which scriptures you will believe, and which ones you will ignore.

Btw, here we go again……. moving ever farther away from the two simple points I'm trying to get answered.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 21 2014,21:10)

Hi MB, You should ascribe glory to God for everything Jesus said or did.

I do. But that statement hasn't one thing to do with the points I've been waiting patiently for you to address.

YES, Jesus was a human being at one time.

YES, Jesus came to glorify his and our God, Jehovah

YES, Jesus couldn't do one single thing on his own.

YES, God is the one who did the works through him.

YES, Jesus came to speak God's words, and do God's will.

I don't deny ANY of these things, Nick. But why would you think any of those things prohibit Jesus from being God's firstborn spirit son BEFORE he was sent in the likeness of a human being?

[NickHassan]

Hi MB,
No.. an anointed human being
yes
Not quite-he could speak for himself and manage his affairs. But in his ministry God worked through him
“I thirst”
yes

He was conceived of God and Mary

[Author]

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