Firstborn of/over all creation

[Baker]

Quote (thehappyman @ April 16 2011,10:34)

You all speak the principles of religion, so where is the faith ? …..    In Gen. 1:1-2 states God created. and the Spirit of God moved . The Spirit of God is whom that is within us now, for He is Holy.(called the Comforter )…..

Hi! This is the first time I ever seen you post. What I and Kathy was discussing is not proven in any way. Whenever I add IMO in my opinion, that is what it is. My opinion and nothing else. Csaliba, who said also about the gap theory is a new member, and we really don;t know all of Her believes. There is a lot on the Internet about the gap theory and the age of the earth. My husband Georg also watches the History Channel, and knows a lot about Ancient History. What is happening with the Earth is true. It still moves. That is why we do have Earthquakes. To go back about the earth, there are Christian Scientist that do believe that the Earth is billion of years old. I don't know, I trust God and that is were I am leaving this…..
Our Faith is stronger then you will ever know. And yes, the Holy Spirit OF GOD is in us, we are the Temple of God. But that does not now say, that we can't discuss the Earth, and why God would create the earth void and dark. Have you ever thought about that? Well we have…
Peace and Love Irene

[Lightenup]

Hi Happyman,
Nice to see you here!
Like I have said, I think it is possible that creation took 6 days. What makes me wonder though, is whether it was 6-24 hour days or 6 'steps' because we get our 24 hour period from a full revolution of the earth and the sun was made as to govern the day but the sun wasn't made till day 4.

14Then God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth”; and it was so. 16God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

Whatever, I know that the Father and Son are capable to do what seems to be impossible.

Kathi

[thehappyman]

Hi Kathi & Irene ;
                I ponder every day of how God made everything possible and I thank you for discussing these points of view. I pray that I have not offended any of you. If I may add to your thoughts ; Peter spoke and said that a day can be a thousand years ; and a thousand years a day. With this thought in mind, the earth can be much older than we ever could imagine. In heaven, it must not have time because eternity it is without end. Only God can give man kind the knowledge of time & season as recorded in scripture.        

[Lightenup]

Hi Happyman,
You are welcome, and thank you for your thoughts! Eternity must have a sense of before and after and therefore a sense of time of sorts. Maybe it is an eternal day…a never ending day, no night. If eternity does not have a sense of before and after, then we have always existed, and we know that isn't true. We can only imagine God can speak to our imagination.

God bless you,
Kathi

[Baker]

Quote (thehappyman @ April 16 2011,15:12)

Hi Kathi & Irene ;                 I ponder every day of how God made everything possible and I thank you for discussing these points of view. I pray that I have not offended any of you. If I may add to your thoughts ; Peter spoke and said that a day can be a thousand years ; and a thousand years a day. With this thought in mind, the earth can be much older than we ever could imagine. In heaven, it must not have time because eternity it is without end. Only God can give man kind the knowledge of time & season as recorded in scripture.

No, you have not offended me, and I see neither Kathy. I am so happy that you are here and posting. I also enjoy the Poem and Lyric to that Song, you gave us. God gave me a nice voice and i love to worship God with it. if you have more bring it on….
Peace and Love to you Irene

[Anonymous]

Quote (Baker @ April 15 2011,03:08)

Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,02:35) Hi All, I created so many questions and I don't know where I'm gonna start from.I'LL try to explain briefly on all points. First Baker I didn't thatr creation happened in a twinkle .Creation took trillions and trillions of years to create the spiritual creatures and also our world  but when the son was within the Father as the word (John 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.)Jesus said that he was in the Father and that He came from the Father. this world belonged and still belong to Lucifer(now Satan) as his responsibility to educate humans but then he rebbelled and flooded the world for the first time ever,because he felth that the only Just way for God to become man if He confront him as god of the world since it belonged to him and also to be a god of evil.Genesis 1:1 gap teory Read psalm 17.Genesis 1:2 Than God threw Lucifer and his angels as a punishment to create our world again with new principles of Good and Evil since there id a third of heavenly hosts as an opponent,that's why God said very good to tell us that he is refering to the new creation according to the new principles not very good as God wanted it,when God create something He creates it perfect and eccelent not very good. The void and dark place mean that the world was completely destroyed through Lucifer, that's why exactly afterwords there is (and the spirit of God moved over the waters)and then following it ( And God said: Be light made. And light was made.) Now this Light is the Son Jesus which God sent to the world as spirit using Him as a sacrifice buried within Luciifer's spirit to create the new world between Jesus as the righteous and Lucifer as the wicked without the awareness of Lucifer.which took trillions and trillions to create till Adam was created.sybolcally the tree of good and evil, and also us the flesh belong to Satan and the soul to God.I will continue later  it's time up for me.(parable of the hidden treasure) Hi again!   Let me ask you a question, I don't want to jump to a conclusion, what you mean. I have a problem understanding what you mean.  Did you say, that Lucifer (Satan) educated humans?  Please give a Scripture were it says that?? Also when you say that the Word of God, how do you understand that?  Because verse 14 says that The Word of God became flesh…. If I understand you right, you do believe in a gap theory do you?   Can I make a suggestion to you?  It would be easier for me to understand, if you would make Paragraphs…like I just did….no offense OK I don't believe the flesh is Sata's, the Spirit is from God and also the flesh.  God created us in His image, as there is a Spirit in man….The flesh will simply return to dust. Why do you believe that the flesh belongs to Satan? Peace and Love Irene

Baker,
The tree of knowledge of good and evil, means that humans must be educated through a system which depends on their own awareness of good within God and Evil within Satan.
Now Adam fell and since he lost God through sin and died spiritually,he had to be educated through the flesh which belong to Satan.Jesus massacred the flesh purposely to show Satan that the flesh for him means nothing because through it's death He will transform it into a spiritual one for ever.All through the old testament humans were unable to obey God simply because they were being manipulated through the flesh,the key factor of Satan to win souls,which was jailed in the body,and only death will make them free.When Jesus came,He preached spirituality purposely in order that when He eliminates Satan's spirit within our souls through His baptism and sin and death through His death on the cross, we will be able to be educated through our souls by the Holy Spirit,but unfortunately we are still slaves to this filthy flesh and the world,and ignoring God's word through the Gospel.Both the world and humans are still the property of Satan since we have to die and the world will end.God is eternal and whatever belong to God is also eternal like the soul.Jesus purchased us and the price was his death on the cross.
peace and love
Charles

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 14 2011,22:48)

Mike, Of course God did not lie…He considers His Son as in Himself, not as Himself, but in Himself.

Says which scripture?

Quote (Lightenup @ April 14 2011,22:48)

The Israelites did not know God as a Father and Son…that was for later.

The NT teaches God as a Father WHO HAS A SON, not “God AS a Father and Son”.

And your scripture makes clear that there are TWO, and one of them is above the other.

As far as Psalm 2:7 and Proverbs 30:4, how can you imply these were “not important scriptures”?  They had to have been known by every faithful Jew who went to the Temple to be taught on the Sabbaths.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,00:10)

Mike , When you say God it's not one person within God but triune, and we don't know how they function.

Hi C,

Our God is ONE, not THREE.  Scripture says so.  And our ONE God has a Son.  It's hard for me to believe that any sensible person could believe that the Son OF God is the God he is the Son OF.  There is no scripture that teaches we have a triune God.

Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,00:10)

That's why Jesus said you see me you see the Father,

But if you are to take that literally, then even as a Trinitarian, you must agree that Jesus IS the Father.  Do you think that Jesus IS the Father?

Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,00:10)

the Father is in me and I'm in the Father.

Jesus also said his hope was for us to be in the Father as the Father is in us.  If the Father being in Jesus makes Jesus God Almighty Himself, then the Father being in us would also make us God Almighty Himself.

Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,00:10)

Jesus became man and He suffered as man

Does it make sense to you that our magnificent Creator not only became a human being but was also able to be tortured and killed by the puny humans He Himself created?

Rather, the scriptures teach that one person, God, sent His Son as a sacrifice so that we could be considered righteous in God's eyes even though none of us could ever hope to be that way apart from the atoning sacrifice.

C, how many sons to you know who are the same being as the father who brought them forth?

Nice chat, and peace to you,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Baker @ April 15 2011,08:38)

Mike and Kathy! You are right Mike, that man came into existing at that time, but before God created man, I do believe that there is a gap theory.  There is evidence that there were Pre-Historic Animals on this earth.  How do you think the got here?

Hi Irene,

I've never heard of the “Gap Theory” until you and Kathi just started talking about it.  I don't know how to explain the seemingly very old fossils, but I do know that the arrogance of man will not allow him to admit these evolutionary things he claims are only theories.

For all we know, the methods they use to determine the age of these bones could be flawed.  I believe they measure how much carbon has been released, because they think they know that carbon leaves bones at a set rate.  But the flood could have changed everything for all we know.

There is a layer of iridium around the earth.  No dinosaur fossil is found above that layer.  This layer could possibly signify the flood of Noah's day.  And since scientists are basing their knowledge of the speed at which carbon releases on the assumption of a dry earth, and haven't considered that carbon might release much faster under the pressure of tons of water, then their results could be flawed.

The bone that they think is a billion years old might in reality only be 6000 years old.  Who knows?

Like I said in my previous post, I don't know the answer.  What I do know is that human scientists have been proven wrong for as long as there has been human scientists.  

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (thehappyman @ April 15 2011,22:12)

Hi Kathi & Irene ;                 I ponder every day of how God made everything possible and I thank you for discussing these points of view. I pray that I have not offended any of you. If I may add to your thoughts ; Peter spoke and said that a day can be a thousand years ; and a thousand years a day. With this thought in mind, the earth can be much older than we ever could imagine. In heaven, it must not have time because eternity it is without end. Only God can give man kind the knowledge of time & season as recorded in scripture.

Hi happyman,

I believe that 1000 years could be applied to any day before there was man. After that, time was kept and history recorded according to our 24 hour days.

But that still leaves 1000's of years between the founding of the earth and the creation of Adam. And the possibility of 2000 years between the animals and Adam.

mike

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 17 2011,16:06)

Quote (thehappyman @ April 15 2011,22:12) Hi Kathi & Irene ;                 I ponder every day of how God made everything possible and I thank you for discussing these points of view. I pray that I have not offended any of you. If I may add to your thoughts ; Peter spoke and said that a day can be a thousand years ; and a thousand years a day. With this thought in mind, the earth can be much older than we ever could imagine. In heaven, it must not have time because eternity it is without end. Only God can give man kind the knowledge of time & season as recorded in scripture.         Hi happyman, I believe that 1000 years could be applied to any day before there was man.  After that, time was kept and history recorded according to our 24 hour days. But that still leaves 1000's of years between the founding of the earth and the creation of Adam.  And the possibility of 2000 years between the animals and Adam. mike

Hi Mike

look at this and think ;Hos 6:2 After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence

i like this scripture.

Pierre

[Baker]

Mike! Before God created man, I don't think time meant anything to God. So when the Scientist claim that according to their studies the earth is 4.5 Billion years old, I wonder if that could be so. Georg has gone even farther and in His Book He believes Satan was send to this Earth to take care of it. When He sinned God took His Holy Spirit away and that made everything void and dark…
.
Psa 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

The entire Chapter of Psalm talks about the creation. So I wonder if then Genesis should say what this verse says. That the earth was 4.5 billion years old and when Gods plan was ready to create man, He renewed the face of the earth, so man could live here. In the rocks that the Scientist researched were Skeletons of Pre-Historic Animals, that could not exist with man…all very interesting…all IMO
Peace and Love Irene

[thehappyman]

Hi All
It's quite amazing knowing that God created the heaven then the earth then; each day a new creation, God is God and their is no other God. Lucifer, the morning star, is an fallen angel full of pride. now ( Sheol ) Hell awaits him and all that follow him. Is 14. I like Charles's statement, the transformed part, and yes Jesus paid the cost for us all. The tree of life was made for the day of God's choosing but Luicifer also named Satan spoiled that plan. So God punished Satan and all that agreed with him totalling a 1/3 of heaven. In theroy I believe Charles is speaking , just as I am at this point.

[Baker]

Quote (thehappyman @ April 17 2011,09:50)

Hi All         It's quite amazing knowing that God created the heaven then the earth then; each day a new creation, God is God and their is no other God. Lucifer, the morning star,  is an fallen angel full of pride. now ( Sheol ) Hell awaits him and all that follow him. Is 14. I like Charles's statement, the transformed part, and yes Jesus paid the cost for us all. The tree of life was made for the day of God's choosing but Luicifer also named Satan spoiled that plan. So God punished Satan and all that agreed with him totalling a 1/3 of heaven. In theroy I believe Charles is speaking , just as I am at this point.

Hi!  Oh, yes Lucifer was a beautiful Archangel like Michael and Gabriel, and when his pride got the better of him, he wanted to be God himself.  
I don't want to go of tread, I said so much about this already, but there is a tread about Lucifer….Sorry Kathy….
Peace and Love Irene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2011,16:19)

Hi Mike look at this and think ;Hos 6:2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence i like this scripture. Pierre

Hi Pierre,

Now that you've pointed it out to me, I like it too!

If you view that scripture in the “1000 years is a day” frame of mind, the restoration and revival process should begin around the year 2033.

Can we not wait for even one hour?

mike

[Anonymous]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 17 2011,08:39)

Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,00:10) Mike , When you say God it's not one person within God but triune, and we don't know how they function. Hi C, Our God is ONE, not THREE.  Scripture says so.  And our ONE God has a Son.  It's hard for me to believe that any sensible person could believe that the Son OF God is the God he is the Son OF.  There is no scripture that teaches we have a triune God. Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,00:10) That's why Jesus said you see me you see the Father, But if you are to take that literally, then even as a Trinitarian, you must agree that Jesus IS the Father.  Do you think that Jesus IS the Father? Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,00:10) the Father is in me and I'm in the Father. Jesus also said his hope was for us to be in the Father as the Father is in us.  If the Father being in Jesus makes Jesus God Almighty Himself, then the Father being in us would also make us God Almighty Himself. Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,00:10) Jesus became man and He suffered as man Does it make sense to you that our magnificent Creator not only became a human being but was also able to be tortured and killed by the puny humans He Himself created? Rather, the scriptures teach that one person, God, sent His Son as a sacrifice so that we could be considered righteous in God's eyes even though none of us could ever hope to be that way apart from the atoning sacrifice. C, how many sons to you know who are the same being as the father who brought them forth? Nice chat, and peace to you, mike

Hi Mike,
We are the image of God but not yet in full. We are body,soul and spirit,triune.If you don't believe the Holy Trinity mystery,you deny that you are the image of God. The old testament God is a puzzle,that's why there are many voices,(Genesis 31The God of Abraham, and the God of Nachor, the God of their father, judge between us. And jacob swore by the fear of his father Isaac.35:1 In the meantime God said to Jacob: Arise, and go up to Bethel, and dwell there, and make there an altar to God, who appeared to thee when thou didst flee from Esau thy brother.)read these two old testament scriptures,they are proofs that we cannot comprehend who ever is the right God, in 35 why God himself says to Jacob:Arise, and go up to Bethel, and dwell there, and make there an altar to God, who appeared to thee when thou didst flee from Esau thy brother.since there suppose to be one God? that's why Jesus came to tell the truth and to reveal His Father,the real God.Be aware that God couldn't make contact directly with humans not even Moses,they were all angels in the name of God but which God??? God himself sent the prophets in order to believe the right God,and even false prophets there was as well,that's why Elias killed them all once.

peace and love in Jesus Christ God man,Son of God within the Father,Spirit within a spirit,but one spirit

Charles

[Anonymous]

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2011,06:30)

Quote (csaliba @ April 16 2011,09:03) Quote (Baker @ April 15 2011,03:08) Quote (csaliba @ April 15 2011,02:35) Hi All, I created so many questions and I don't know where I'm gonna start from.I'LL try to explain briefly on all points. First Baker I didn't thatr creation happened in a twinkle .Creation took trillions and trillions of years to create the spiritual creatures and also our world  but when the son was within the Father as the word (John 1 IN the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.)Jesus said that he was in the Father and that He came from the Father. this world belonged and still belong to Lucifer(now Satan) as his responsibility to educate humans but then he rebbelled and flooded the world for the first time ever,because he felth that the only Just way for God to become man if He confront him as god of the world since it belonged to him and also to be a god of evil.Genesis 1:1 gap teory Read psalm 17.Genesis 1:2 Than God threw Lucifer and his angels as a punishment to create our world again with new principles of Good and Evil since there id a third of heavenly hosts as an opponent,that's why God said very good to tell us that he is refering to the new creation according to the new principles not very good as God wanted it,when God create something He creates it perfect and eccelent not very good. The void and dark place mean that the world was completely destroyed through Lucifer, that's why exactly afterwords there is (and the spirit of God moved over the waters)and then following it ( And God said: Be light made. And light was made.) Now this Light is the Son Jesus which God sent to the world as spirit using Him as a sacrifice buried within Luciifer's spirit to create the new world between Jesus as the righteous and Lucifer as the wicked without the awareness of Lucifer.which took trillions and trillions to create till Adam was created.sybolcally the tree of good and evil, and also us the flesh belong to Satan and the soul to God.I will continue later  it's time up for me.(parable of the hidden treasure) Hi again!   Let me ask you a question, I don't want to jump to a conclusion, what you mean. I have a problem understanding what you mean.  Did you say, that Lucifer (Satan) educated humans?  Please give a Scripture were it says that?? Also when you say that the Word of God, how do you understand that?  Because verse 14 says that The Word of God became flesh…. If I understand you right, you do believe in a gap theory do you?   Can I make a suggestion to you?  It would be easier for me to understand, if you would make Paragraphs…like I just did….no offense OK I don't believe the flesh is Sata's, the Spirit is from God and also the flesh.  God created us in His image, as there is a Spirit in man….The flesh will simply return to dust. Why do you believe that the flesh belongs to Satan? Peace and Love Irene Hi Baker, Ezekiel 28:13 :19 says it all if you reflect and meditate within the Holy Spirit.Lucifer was the archangel representing the Son that's why he  his name signify light as Jesus,and since Jesus was given everything by his Father to show his true entire Love,and Jesus did as he saw his Father did and gave everything to then Lucifer to be the sole proprietor of the world before the rebel,and also before Adam.trillions of trillions ago.Genesis 1: 2 is referring to the destruction of that world and a new world was recreate  within new principles of Good and Evil Psalm 18 not (17 sorry as I wrote in my first post).tells it all.18:4:19   Charles Hi the scriptures you quote Esi;18;4-19 is direct related to Christ and the nation of Israel. nothing to do with Lucifer Pierre

Pierre,
It's not Esi;18;4-19 it's psalm 18:4:19 read carefully and it says that the world was flooded and only David survived through God intervention on recreating our world,and then reincarnated him again to become a King descendent of Jesus,that's why David had a fight with Goliath to indicate what happened in the previous world between God and His enemies.

[Anonymous]

Quote (Lightenup @ April 16 2011,08:10)

csaliba, Quote Be light made,this means that God now has incarnated His son spiritual body within Lucifer's.so both of them represented the Light within the darkness. Sorry but that is not scriptural. Kathi

Kathi,

Genesis 1:3 And God said: Be light made. And light was made
there it is
Love

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ April 17 2011,17:32)

Quote (terraricca @ April 16 2011,16:19) Hi Mike look at this and think ;Hos 6:2 After two days he will revive us; on the third day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence i like this scripture. Pierre Hi Pierre, Now that you've pointed it out to me, I like it too!   If you view that scripture in the “1000 years is a day” frame of mind, the restoration and revival process should begin around the year 2033.   Can we not wait for even one hour?   mike

Mike

I love you my brother,

Pierre

[terraricca]

scaliba

Ps 18:1 I love you, O LORD, my strength.

Ps 18:2 The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge.
He is my shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
Ps 18:3 I call to the LORD, who is worthy of praise,
and I am saved from my enemies.

Ps 18:4 The cords of death entangled me;
the torrents of destruction overwhelmed me.
Ps 18:5 The cords of the grave coiled around me;
the snares of death confronted me.
Ps 18:6 In my distress I called to the LORD?
I cried to my God for help.
From his temple he heard my voice;
my cry came before him, into his ears.

Ps 18:7 The earth trembled and quaked,
and the foundations of the mountains shook;
they trembled because he was angry.
Ps 18:8 Smoke rose from his nostrils;
consuming fire came from his mouth,
burning coals blazed out of it.
Ps 18:9 He parted the heavens and came down;
dark clouds were under his feet.
Ps 18:10 He mounted the cherubim and flew;
he soared on the wings of the wind.
Ps 18:11 He made darkness his covering, his canopy around him—
the dark rain clouds of the sky.
Ps 18:12 Out of the brightness of his presence clouds advanced,
with hailstones and bolts of lightning.
Ps 18:13 The LORD thundered from heaven;
the voice of the Most High resounded.
Ps 18:14 He shot his arrows and scattered the enemies,
great bolts of lightning and routed them.
Ps 18:15 The valleys of the sea were exposed
and the foundations of the earth laid bare
at your rebuke, O LORD,
at the blast of breath from your nostrils.

Ps 18:16 He reached down from on high and took hold of me;
he drew me out of deep waters.
Ps 18:17 He rescued me from my powerful enemy,
from my foes, who were too strong for me.
Ps 18:18 They confronted me in the day of my disaster,
but the LORD was my support.
Ps 18:19 He brought me out into a spacious place;
he rescued me because he delighted in me.

sorry about that ,but this is the same it is all prophesied about Christ ,

Pierre

[Author]

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