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I believe in unaversal salvation
What are the consequences of sin? We are told by many people who view the story of Lazarus and the Rich Man literally, plus some scriptures in the book of Revelation, that it means to be in hell fire for all eternity. Let us also understand the book of Revelation is very symbolic! Though it speaks of the rebellious being tormented with fire and brimstone for ever and ever (for the ages of the ages), it is also the same book that speaks of Jesus Christ, equally in symbolic form, of looking like a Lamb with seven horns and seven eyes in his face (Revelation 6:6 with 14:10–11). This section is, of course, symbolic as anyone can see.
This does not mean that figurative teaching has an unpractical meaning. Far from it! What must be discovered is the real teaching. Take, for example, the punishments God gives for sins. There are hundreds of scriptures that show God’s retribution upon individuals and the world for their rebellion to Him and their harm to mankind. But the punishments of judgment are not to burn literally in a hell fire forever! Indeed, judgment is now on the house of God.
“For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God; and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?”
- 1 Peter 4:17
No sinning saint is now in the fires of judgment. All people sin — alas, even Christians from time to time (1 John 1:8), but all are promised eternal life — yet they suffer the loss of certain wonderful rewards for the millennial period if they persist in sin,
“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. … Every man’s work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man’s work of what sort it is. If any man’s work abide which he has built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.”
- 1 Corinthians 3:11–15
The Bible says it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of God when people rebel against Him (Hebrews 10:31), even though Christian people are sanctified and their salvation is secure in Christ (Hebrews 10:14).
When the whole of the Bible is studied on the matter, it is seen that the judgment of hell after death is symbolic. People who have had some “near death” experiences and thought they were going to a burning hell, were having hallucinations inspired by their imaginations. 2 After all, people who have been taught all their lives about a literal hell fire to be experienced for all eternity, have difficulty in eradicating such things from their minds at the point of death — and this is more so if they think they are dying as sinners. However, Christ came to save the world, and He will do it!
The geographical area that was a symbol of fiery judgment was the Valley of Hinnom (Gehenna) at the southeast corner of Jerusalem. It was the city dump. Normally, fires were set in the region to burn up the refuse. If dead bodies were placed there in time of war (or sometimes in pagan rituals), worms would emerge to destroy the carcasses. This is what Isaiah 66:24 and Mark 9:44–48 are talking about. Of course, the fires were in a separate area from the worms because worms cannot live in flames.
The whole thing was intended to be figurative in the first place. Gehenna (hell) was known as Tophet (Isaiah 30:33 with Jeremiah 7:31) and remarkably the entire area will one day become holy to the Lord (Jeremiah 31:38–40). There will certainly not be any eternal fires in Gehenna. (The “unquenchable fires” of Matthew 3:12 are fires that cannot be put out with water or soil until they have consumed all the combustible material.)
The truth is, it can be shown conclusively that the consequences of doing sin are NOT to be placed in a hell fire forever and ever. The Bible makes the issue plain for all to see if only people will believe its simple teaching. Many do not want to do this, and they insist on making literal what the Scripture allows only to be symbolic.
Look at this closely. It is simple and plain. All Christians know that the Bible emphatically states that Jesus paid for all our sins (even the sins of the world) when He died on the cross. If anyone disputes this fact, then the very essence of the theological teaching of the New Testament is thwarted.
“And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.”
- 1 John 2:2
This is abundantly true! But now note this! If the consequences of sin were to be placed in a hell fire to be burned forever, then for Christ to have paid the penalty of our sins (so we do not have to suffer it), then Christ would have to be in that hell fire forever — always suffering the consequences of our sins. After all, the Bible says that Christ took our punishment. But Christ was alive from the dead some three days later, and is presently in heaven with the Father. He is not in an eternal hell fire undergoing the consequences of our sins! All of the scriptures speaking about the punishment of fire are symbolic. If they are not, then they would violate this fundamental theological fact of the New Testament that Christ paid the punishment for our sins without being burnt in any flames.
Indeed, what did Christ do for us? The Bible says “He died” (Romans 3:34). And what are the wages of sin? — the consequences of sin?
“For the wages of sin is death: but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
- Romans 6:23
The result of sin is death — not life in hell fire or anywhere else! What Jesus did was to be crucified for us on the cross. He did not go into hell fire to burn forever — or else He would still be there!
One other point needs to be made. Some denominations say that the wages of sin are eternal death (nonexistence). But this cannot be true. If it were, then Christ (in order to pay the penalty for our sins) would have had to remain dead for all eternity! Yet He was dead for only three days! He is now with the Father in heaven and getting ready to return to this earth to redeem His saints at the resurrection of the just. Others have said that since all humans have to die the first (physical) death (Hebrews 9:27), it is the second death that Christ died for us. But how can that be? The second death is the Lake of Fire in the Book of Revelation (Revelation 20:14), and it is obvious that Christ did not go into any literal Lake of Fire while He died on the cross. His death was for us!
What Christ did do for you, me and all mankind was to make it possible for all death to be abolished (1 Corinthians 15:26) which He will accomplish in His own good time. Only “life”will then exist!
The fact is, the Bible makes perfectly good sense on the matter of the punishments for sin. It is when well-intentioned, but erroneous, interpreters begin to make symbolic scriptures to be literal, that all of the problems emerge. All becomes confusing and contradictory when this type of procedure is used. The story of Lazarus and the Rich Man is a pure parable from beginning to end. It makes perfectly good sense and tells a wonderful and significant story that any student of the Bible can relate to. Let us learn to leave the parables as parables! The Bible will become plain if we do.
“All these things spoke Jesus unto the multitudes in parables; and without a parable spoke he not unto them.”Matthew 13:34 Ernest L. Martin, 1984 Edited by David Sielaff, June 2003 .
God bless Nick
Hi Anthony,
God wants all to be saved but He has sent His Son to be the door.
He is love and His ways are merciful to those who are merciful.
Some will be surprised to find salvation is theirs, but not all.
Hi Anthony,
Calling Abraham your FATHER is a problem.
Those who did so with Jesus were told instead their father was the devil.
God is Father of all men and all who came before Jesus were as thieves and robbers.
Hi Anthony,
All have sinned. The wages of sin is death.
Those who have suffered and died for the sake of the gospel did not work in vain.
Hi Anthony,
Gehenna was created for the devil and his angels, not for man.
Hades is just a place of waiting.
Soothsayers are everywhere comforting fearful mankind but we need to take heed of the warnings.
Hi Nick,
You wrote:
Hi Anthony,
Jesus Christ was resurrected by the Spirit of Life in him.
The Spirit was given in the days of his flesh and he is alive and cannot die.
If you have been anointed with the same Spirit that life dwells in you to raise you too.Hi Nick,
You wrote:
Hi Anthony,
Jesus Christ was resurrected by the Spirit of Life in him.
The Spirit was given in the days of his flesh and he is alive and cannot die.
If you have been anointed with the same Spirit that life dwells in you to raise you too.Me: I believe this is correct. We are spiritually resurrected into life now. We are not dead spiritually and will never be if we endure until the end.
I also believe that after Christ was risen from the dead, all the past dead came to life spiritually (John 5:25) Those believers alive after the resurrection will never die if they are faithful and keep believing.
Romans 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed. 13 The night is far spent, the day is at hand: let us therefore cast off the works of darkness, and let us put on the armour of light.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
1 Cor 15:45 (NSAB) So also it is written, “The first MAN, Adam, BECAME A LIVING SOUL.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit…21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead…22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
2 Tim 2:11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
Me: If we had died with Christ, we had also resurrected with Christ.
Romans 6:3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 5 knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
Me: After we are baptized in the spirit, we do not die spiritually, but only physical. At the first resurrection, we acquire new bodies which our old bodies were spiritual images of.
John 8: 51 Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death.
John 11: 25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
Me: The righteous dead prior to Christ’s ascension came to life spiritually after his ascension. Those that are alive in Christ after his ascension will never die if they continue to believe in Christ.
Romans 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (2837 from the link below), but we shall all be changed,
Me:Click on the first link. Then click on 2837 above “we will fall asleep” for the definition on the bottom of the link.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/1_corinthians/15-51.htm
One definition: metaphorically, to still, calm, quietRev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest (373)yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Click on the link below. Then click on 373 above “they will rest ” for the definition on the bottom of the link.
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/revelation/6-11.htmDefinition: make to rest, give rest to; mid. and pass: I rest, take my ease.
Me: One of the definitions for sleep in 1 Cor 15:51 is essential the same as the definition for rest in Rev 6:11. Notice also, that the saints that had died in Christ are with him under the altar.
The new body at the first resurrection is the last step (1 Cor 15:35-58).
TC …did Jesus LIE? “I WAS “DEAD” AND NOW AM ALIVE FOREVER MORE”? ARE YOU SAYING Jesus never ‘Really” died? My bible say by his own mouth he did “truly” die.
Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
Hi Gene,
You wrote:
TC …did Jesus LIE? “I WAS “DEAD” AND NOW AM ALIVE FOREVER MORE”? ARE YOU SAYING Jesus never ‘Really” died? My bible say by his own mouth he did “truly” die.
Peace and love to you and yours. ….geneMe: No I did not say that. Can you quote me? Christ was completely dead. He is now completely alive. We are alive spiritually now. We will never die spiritually if we continue the faith. Our bodies will die at our death. It will resurrect at the first resurrection. But salvation spiritually is now.
Those in the OT died completely. But since the resurrection and ascension into heaven, they are alive spiritually–now.
Hi Gene,
To DIE COMPLETELY is a new concept.
The SPIRIT OF LIFE CANNOT DIE so you would have to say the Spirit left him too.
Nick…while the holy spirit which is God in us, can not die, but we sure can and if you believe Jesus he sure did die, at least that is what he said. “I was dead, and “now” am alive for evermore”. To me Jesus truly did die, a real death for my sins. He gave up his life for me and others also. He was completely dead in that grave for three days ans three nights ans after that was raised from his grave by GOD THE FATHER.
I geuss it’s a matter who you are going to believe right, i chose to believe what Jesus said of himself.
Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
Hi Gene,
When you understand life in the Spirit of eternal life begins now you should understand what Jesus means.
‘God is the God of the living. Abraham’ ‘Isaac and Jacob are alive to God.’
‘Some standing here will be alive when I return.’
‘Those who live and believe in me will never die.’
Hi Gene,
So you argue too with the Spirit in Peter.
’having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the Spirit; in which he went and made proclamation
to the spirits in prison, who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the time of Noah…’
Hi Gene,
Yes the Spirit can be in us.
Do you think the Spirit stays separate from us?
or does the Spirit, if allowed, transform us from within and come into unity with us?
Nick…i know that, but none of having the spirit in Jesus stopted him from truly dying for us. And having to be raised from death by The spirit of God, noe did lt.?
Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
Hi Nick,
You said:
To DIE COMPLETELY is a new concept.
The SPIRIT OF LIFE CANNOT DIE so you would have to say the Spirit left him too.Me: You: To DIE COMPLETELY is a new concept.
The SPIRIT OF LIFE CANNOT DIE so you would have to say the Spirit left him too.Me: yep
Eccl 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (holy spirit) shall return unto God who gave it.Luke 23:46 And having called out with a voice loud, Jesus said Father, unto the hands of you I commit the spirit of me this moreover having said he breathe his last.
Me: What spirit is this in Luke 23:46 and Eccl 12:7? Notice It is the spirit in both verses.
Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
Comment: In the end, there is only spirit, the holy spirit for everyone.
Ezk 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit (holy spirit) will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh (heart in the mind of Christ). And I will put my spirit (holy spirit) within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.
Hi TC,
It s quite wrong to assume that the spirit in Ecc 12 refers to the Holy Spirit.
It applies to all men and few have the Holy Spirit.
Hi Nick,
You wrote:
It s quite wrong to assume that the spirit in Ecc 12 refers to the Holy Spirit.
It applies to all men and few have the Holy Spirit.Me:
It applies to the few men who did have the holy spirit before Christ had ascended into heaven. The spirit of man, including the saints died. Death is called a sleep because men can be brought back to life temporarily as was done in a few cases. It is also called a sleep for those that rest in the earth until judgment of the Messiah (John 5:28). Further, the saints in the OT slept in the earth until the messiah resurrected them to life when he ascended into heaven (John 5:25, 11:25). When they slept in the earth, their thoughts ceased to exist (Eccl 9:5, Psalm 115:17, Psalm 6:5). Now they are with Christ. The saints who had not died before Christ had ascended into heaven, never will (John 11:26) if they endure until the end of their physical lives.
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