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Hi TC,
Acts 8 and the story of Simon Magus, who was baptised (v 13), shows that it is not of magic but of repentance.
Nothing has changed since the Spirit spoke through Peter at Pentecost.
’Repent, and EACH OF YOU be baptised in the name of Jesus Christ FOR the forgiveness of your sins;
and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
For the promise is for
YOU
and YOUR children
and for ALL WHO ARE FAR OFF, as many as the Lord, our God, will call to Himself.
Nick…tell us does the resurection take place in the “neither world” you call sheol, back to a different life here on earth from what they were “living” in your sheol?
What i take it you are saying when a person dies, he really passes into another world you call sheol your intrem world where they keep on living right?, then at the time of the resurection they leave the “neither world” and come back to “this world”, alive again without a body, as a spirit beings, right?
ARE YOU TELLING US NO ONE “REALLY” AND GOES TO THERE GRAVES?
AS far as i am concerned scripture teaches a person’s “body” is what is resurected, just like Jesus’ BODY was.
What part of this scripture you don’t believe, Rom 8:23 …where it says “the redemption of “OUR” BODY”. You say No It’s not ‘”our” body but a completely new body.a spirit body, as if spirits do actually have bodies.
Produce a single scripture that shows a spirit is a body of anykind. Would be a good start point for you. I know you want us to believe spirits are the bodies, we are raised with, so prove it.
Produce your proof text Nick. Were waiting.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
Read and believe what is written.
Rev 20.11
And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened,
and another book was opened, which is the book of life;
and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and Death and Hades gave up the dead which were in them;
and they were judged, every one of them according to their deeds.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life he was thrown into the lake of fire.
By the evidence of scripture does the Hades described by Jesus exist and does it contain people before Judgement?
Is it important to have your name written in the book of life?
Can you pass over from judgement to life?
Hi Gene,
Scripture speaks frequently of Sheol or the pit, but these words are foreign to your ears?
What about Hades in the NT?
Time for some serious catchup work.
Nick, Trying to change subject matter only shows your desperations, none of what you posted proves people are alive in some neither world when they die.
Obviously if the “Dead” were being Judged, then they certanily are not alive, or they were alive but spritually Considered dead, because they died before Jesus paid their death penalty for them and so they are, as a result of God’s pryor judgements for sins on them, “considered” as dead even though they are brought back to life and stand before the judgement seat and they are judged by what is written in the books. Jesus also used that analogy about death saying, “let the dead bury the dead”.
Revelations is written in a symbolic language, it can be easely misunderstood.
Except you believe in JESUS, and He who sent him, and raised him from the dead, YOU HAVE NO “LIFE” IN YOU. YOU WILL DIE IN YOUR SINS, you are considered as “spritually” dead, without true faith.
Your false beliefs in no death OF THE SOUL, when a person dies, has you grabbing for straws to support you own ideas, even if it is against scriptures clearly written about when a person dies. There are two types of death one “spritual”, the other “physical” but either way dead is dead, Nick.
Peace and love to you and yours. ……gene
Hi Gene,
Abraham, Isaac and Jacob all died but are among the living.
Lazarus died but is asleep.
Surely you know?
Hi Gene,
Abraham explained the dire situation of Hades to the rich man suffering there.
But you may know better.
Hi Gene,
The dead stand before the throne of judgement.
But it is all a mystery to you.
Let the dead bury the dead.
Hi TC,
Heb 10.22
’ Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith
having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience
and our bodies washed with pure water’
Col 2.11
’and in him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands,
in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also
raised up with him through faith in the working of God,
Who raised him from the dead.
Hi Nick,
You wrote:
Jn 5.25
‘Truly, truly I say to you. An hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God,
and THOSE who hear will live. ‘
This refers to those who are ALIVE in the Spirit of Christ, only the anointed ones in the first resurrection.Me: ‘Truly, truly I say to you. An hour (time) is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and THOSE who hear will live. ‘
This said the (time) is coming and is now is….dead…will live
“Now is”refers to will live… And who will live—it is the dead, not those who have been living in Christ, who did not exist until his birth.Eccl; 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward…
You: This refers to those who are ALIVE in the Spirit of Christ, only the anointed ones in the first resurrection.
Me: This refers to those OT saints that had lived spiritually after Christ had ascended into heaven and was glorified. Their bodies are redeemed at the first resurrection.
Jn 5.28
‘Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming in which ALL WHO ARE IN THE TOMBS will hear his voice,
and ALL will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who did evil deeds
to a resurrection of judgement’Me: This is referring to the rest of the dead that who will be judged by Christ and his saints at the end of the millennium.
HI Nick:
You: The baptism of the Spirit is not of cleansing but of sanctification.
Where were men who responded to the Word NOT baptised in water in Acts?Me: Baptism means burial. We first die with Christ when we crucify our mind of the flesh. The mind of the flesh is the spiritual image of the mind of the spirit. We are then buried (baptized) with him. Being baptized in water symbolizes this. Then we are resurrected into beginning a new life. Then we are sanctified, which means a process of growing holy.
You: We need the three witnesses to our faith shown in 1jn 5.
Me:
1 John 5: 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.
Comment: If you believe in 1 John 5:8, you must also believe in 1 John 5:7 because they go together. This is one of the main verses Trinitarians use to justify the trinity. It was never in the original text and only appeared centuries later.
https://bible.org/article/textual-problem-1-john-57-8
From the Author:
In reality, the issue is history, not heresy: How can one argue that the Comma Johanneum must go back to the original text when it did not appear until the 16th century in any Greek manuscripts? …Matt 28:19 is another with later added text
http://www.trinitytruth.org/matthew28_19addedtext.html
Me: If you reason from the basis of 1 John 5:7-8, you will get messed up.
Hi Nick,
You wrote:
God is the God of the LIVING.
After you die will you be among them?Me:
Matt 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.Rev 13:8 …Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
John 3:13 … even the Son of man which is in heaven.
John 15:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Romans 4:17 (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.
Comment: God calls things that did not happen as thou they have already happened. Even before the dead were resurrected in spirit after Christ had ascended into heaven, God saw it as if it already happened. It is reality in God’s mind before he causes it to be accomplish. When Christ made the statement in Matt 22:32, the dead had not resurrected. But even from eternity, they had already resurrected in God’s mind.
Another example:
Matt 17:1 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, 2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. 3 And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.
Hi Nick:
You wrote:
Col 2.11
’and in him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands,
in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ;
having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also
raised up with him through faith in the working of God,
Who raised him from the dead.Me:
As the foreskin is removed in physical circumcision, the veil over our eyes are removed so we can see spiritually after we are baptized in the spirit.
2 Cor 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
Hi Nick:
You wrote:
Heb 10.22
’ Let us draw near with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith
having our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience
and our bodies washed with pure water’Me: Let’s say you are right that baptism washes the body. Well, these church members have already been baptized. Do they need to wash their bodies again?
https://biblehub.com/lexicon/hebrews/10-22.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/4983.htm
G4983 sóma: a body
Original Word: σῶμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sóma
Phonetic Spelling: (so’-mah)
Short Definition: body, flesh
Definition: body, flesh; the body of the Church.Comment: soma is singular. It should be body and not bodies. Thus,
Heb 10:22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our body (church) washed with pure water.
Eph 5:25…even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it (church) with the washing of water by the word (John 6:63 spirit).Comment: Water is a metaphor for spirit. God’s words are spirit and truth. It is obvious that body in Heb 10:22 relates to church Eph 5:25-26.
TC….Nick doesn’t seem to understand metaphors, he sees every thing as literal, he believes people do not truly die, when they die, he believes death is like a person going out of a room and opening another door and goes into another room, still alive.
He doesn’t believe what Rom 8:23, or Gen 2:7 he believes our bodies are completely done away with and we become living spirits only, no need of a body just spirits floating around in arid places looking for rest.
He thinks our bodies are just trash, we don’t need them any longer after we die, even though Jesus after his “resurection” clearly said, he was not a spirit, because spirits have not flesh and bone as he said he has. So he comes up with this idea, that Jesus dumped his body on the way to heaven. So when he comes he will be a spirit, without a body.
I find it hard to believe him, when he speaks against clearly written scriptures.
I believe that there is truly a resurection of those who have dies from the grave, wth a regenerated physical body exactly as Jesus has after his resurection.
Peace and love to you and yours. ….gene
Hi TC,
I hope you have kept an open mind on the verses you have been given and that you ponder them,
and do not close doors of understanding according to your current ideology.
Hi TC,
I have no interest in the added verses in 1jn5.7 and Matt 28.19.
We enter the kingdom by rebirth of water and the Spirit.
Many are falsely baptised as infants in the name of a nonexistent trinity.
vanity vanity and uselessness.
You cannot see the kingdom till you are reborn from above,
The pharisees and scribes chose blindness by refusing the baptism of John.
Lk 7.30
‘But The pharisees and the lawyers rejected God’s purpose for themselves, not having been baptised by John’
So the ways of God are of wisdom and not optional. Wisdom is justified by her children.
Hi TC,
The anointed men in the OT are alive to God and Moses and Elijah were wakened to speak with Jesus on the mountain.
Jesus Christ brought life and truth potentially to all who follow him into his death and resurrection.
That way is of water and the Spirit but folks still argue outside the gates of salvation
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