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Yes Nick that is what I have repeatedly said from the beginning. Not sure what you read from me that you misinterpreted.
Hi Nick,
No worries, I’m pretty wordy lol!! I always say to myself I will make this a brief post, but that doesn’t seem to happen.
Hi Gene,
You are right, if I am posting scriptures thinking they’ve just got to read this one and that one, and maybe the light would finally switch on, I’d probably be just waisting my time. The truth be told, as you said, it has greatly benifited me. The word of God and His plan and promises have become so much more engrained into my heart and mind, as I have spent the last several weeks reading so many scriptures. Through trying to cause the blind to see, I have been hit with more rays of light and truth.
Hi Jodi,
Your presentations are thorough and sincere, thank you. We do, however, agree to differ on a few things.
I believe the word is alive and active able to penetrate to the division between the soul and the spirit.
Likewise the sword of the Spirit slashes through the trivia to reach the heart of the spiritual matter.
Those yet to be called out the of the world cannot hear the Spirit in the word or the servants of God.
Yes the preexistence of Jesus Christ makes no sense if he became the Son of God or Christ at his baptism, so it stands to reason that his baptism was only his inauguration into his public ministry. If Jesus were sinless what need had he to be born again or baptized? and it’s right after his baptism in Mark 1:24 the demons cry out- “Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God. ” How did they recognize him except they knew him from the previous life in heaven? this strongly suggests preexistence. And in Luke it’s Elizabeth who says to Mary Lk 1:43” And whence is this to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me” Jesus wasn’t yet her Lord unless he was even before birth the Son of God. And while it says John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit from his mothers womb, did that make him greater than Jesus for a time? But Jesus very Father was the Holy Spirit according to Lk1:35 ” And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.” To say he didn’t have the Spirit until his baptism is not taking many other verses into account. How could he not have the Spirit in him when his biological father is the Spirit and therefore God?
AndrewAD, Good Morning, please consider the full passage of Mark when understanding verse 24.
You said, “it’s right after his baptism in Mark 1:24 the demons cry out- “Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.” How did they recognize him except they knew him from the previous life in heaven? this strongly suggests preexistence.”
Mark 1:1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God, 2 as it is written in Isaiah the prophet: “I will send my messenger ahead of you, who will prepare your way” — 3 “a voice of one calling in the wilderness, ‘Prepare the way for the Lord, make straight paths for him.’ ” 4 And so John the Baptist appeared in the wilderness, preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins.
7 And this was his message: “After me comes the one more powerful than I, the straps of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. 8 I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”
First it WAS NOT RIGHT AFTER his baptism, unless you considered at least well over a month to be “right after”, as he went into the wilderness for 40 days, after that he went and gathered followers such as Simon, Andrew, James, and John.
Second of all John prepared the way for the Messiah he was telling the people he was coming and that he too would be asking people to repent of their sins and that this man would be great.
So you have two major things WRONG in what you say, it was NOT right after, and those that had unclean spirits had in all manner of logic in the way Mark is written, KNEW of him because John had proclaimed to everyone around about him.
I find it very frustrating when people make claims about a verse that is absolutely contrary to the surrounding text. There is no truth in pulling out a verse from a passage making claims about that verse, all the while ignoring the rest of the passage.
Hi Jodi,
That’s a good point about Mark 1- it being after the forty days where Jesus was in the wilderness being tempted by Satan,and John’s preaching about a greater one coming-although Jesus isn’t specified. So it makes sense if the demons met him in the wilderness. And I was thinking “right after” in terms of in Mark chapter 1. I freely admit the synoptics don’t make a point of Jesus preexistence like John does.
Although the term Son of Man in the synoptics,if referring to Daniels vision of the Son of Man, which I think it does, implies preexistence and in Mark 2:27 where Jesus claims to be Lord of the sabbath.
AndrewAD,
I would also like to address the following,
“Yes the preexistence of Jesus Christ makes no sense if he became the Son of God or Christ at his baptism, so it stands to reason that his baptism was only his inauguration into his public ministry. If Jesus were sinless what need had he to be born again or baptized?”
I am not sure where to begin here with this statement!
Hebrews 2: 6 But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? 7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 8 Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
Jesus was a man that needed to be perfected, he REMAINED without sin BECAUSE the Spirit of God was in him working that perfection, of which we are specifically told that his perfection occurred through suffering. Sin is to go the wrong way, to not follow God’s path and God’s will it means that you put more faith in yourself and your own ways over having faith in God. When Jesus was suffering, he pleaded with God, but he said at the end of his plea, not my will but yours be done. Jesus was perfected when he proved as a MAN that he had absolute pure faith in God, such faith that he would die on the cross, believing that God would surely raise him up.
Ephesians 4:13 till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ,
Christ (man anointed with the Spirit at the river) BECAME a perfect man through his display of his pure faith in God as he was going to the cross, and by that is the fulness of Christ. We likewise should be in unity with this kind of faith.
AndrewAD the baptism that Jesus received was not just an inauguration into his public ministry, he HAD TO BE BAPTIZED with the Spirit in order to reach the kingdom of God. Once he received the Spirit he was not just sent from that time out into the world to begin his ministry, he had ALL POWER of the Spirit, he healed, he even raised the dead, and likewise that Spirit provided him with wisdom and faith, of which led him to PERFECTION, a new man, the second Adam, a man not deserving of death but eternal life.
Mark 1: 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Isaiah 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my Spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles. 2 He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street. 3 A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth. 4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.
The Spirit placed upon Jesus made him a judge a MASTER, it made him a lord FROM GOD, NOT from this world, but FROM HEAVEN. He was then sent out to the world being FROM GOD/FROM HEAVEN. Comprehend these two passages together. Prior to the baptism Jesus grew from a boy into a man and he was a servant of God and on the day of his baptism God was pleased with His servant.
5 Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
6 I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles; 7 To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
Jesus himself quotes this very verse, showing that he is the MAN that Isaiah PROPHESIED would COME. The anointing of the Spirit at the Jordan was Jesus being called in righteousness, where God would hold his hand, and keep thee for a new covenant for the people.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Romans 8: 10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
1 John 3:
9 every one who hath been begotten of God, sin he doth not, because his seed in him doth remain, and he is not able to sin, because of God he hath been begotten.
10 In this manifest are the children of God
23 and this is His command, that we may believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and may love one another, even as He did give command to us.
seed –“of divine energy of the Holy Spirit operating within the soul by which we are regenerated”
To believe in the NAME of Jesus the CHRIST (anointed man with the Spirit), is to believe that a man was begotten by God with His Spirit, and having that Spirit keeps you from sin.
pre-existence is antichrist, what you speak is against the identity of Christ that we are given,
AGAIN READ
Ephesians 4:13 till we may all come to the unity of the faith and of the recognition of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to a measure of stature of the fulness of the Christ,
The fulness of Christ is a PERFECT MAN, we are told that God’s plan contained two Adams, one that would bring sin and death, one that would bring righteousness and eternal life. There is an OLD man and a NEW MAN, there is an EARTHLY MAN, and there is a HEAVENLY MAN. We are specifically told that the heavenly MAN did NOT come first, AFTERWARDS is the SPIRITUAL. The earthly man was MADE into the HEAVENLY MAN through the Spirit of God and through being perfected by what he suffered. The FLESH of Jesus as was promised by God to king David, was to not see corruption, but be given eternal life.
The idea that Jesus pre-existed and then went BACK to what he was before was not according to the plan of God, it is another path God never spoke about, it is a sinful path. God’s plan from the beginning was to bring MEN to eternal life and for God to come down and dwell with humans on a beautiful restored earth. We are directly told this plan was not in a pre-existing son but in two Adams. Jesus was raised up to where he was before after he died, which was EARTH, then after he appeared to many he went to heaven to sit a son of man, a Son of God, at God’s right hand.
Acts 13: 32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, 33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus AGAIN; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Do you SEE he hath raised up Jesus AGAIN, as in Psalms 2, the first time Jesus was begotten of the Spirit was at the river, this caused him to be the “only begotten Son” as we are told that Jesus was the ONLY MAN given God’s Spirit without measure, this lead him to his perfection, being the ONLY MAN who died without sin. Then he was begotten again being raised up through the Spirit, and being given eternal life, with the Spirit dwelling in him forever.
AndrewAD,
24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful? 25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him? 26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him? 27 And he said unto them,The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
David is ALSO a son of man, and he also was a master over the sabbath, as Jesus just told us.
Isaiah 11: 1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. 5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
Without the Spirit of God given to Jesus, Jesus would not have the wisdom of which he just spoke unto the Pharisees. Likewise he would not be a judge over things, thus NEITHER would he be a master. What Jesus spoke was through God, as Jesus said that he does NOTHING of himself, only that which the Father GIVES him through His Spirit. Jesus says that the words he speaks are not his own but the Fathers.
Jodi,
Mark 1: 10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him: 11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. In Mark’s account of the Baptism the voice declares Thou art my son, and in the other synoptics it’s similar which doesn’t say that at it was at that moment he became God’s son. If the voice said thou hast now become my son you might have a point. But as I’ve pointed out in Luke he’s shown to be Lord,Christ, and Son of God previous to this and Matthew does as well with his virgin birth story.
In Matthew’s version John didn’t want to baptize Jesus and says ” it’s I who need to be baptized by you and you come to me?” with Jesus response as ” suffer it to be so now for thus it becomes us to fulfill all righteousness”. Now what is the point of this except that baptism was for sinners a new way of atonement or forgiveness of which Jesus had no need unless he was a sinner. And the “suffer it to be so now” is Matthew’s way of explaining this. Jesus didn’t need to be forgiven and baptism certainly wasn’t any legal requirement for anyone.
I do want to touch on more of your points and enjoy the conversation but have to go, so I’ll suffer this post to be so now. God bless!
Hi,
The Law is spiritual, and by grace is able to make men clean as, Jesus demonstrated.
But he then made the standard perfection thus closing that door.
Now he is the only door to salvation.
Hi Ed,
Or did the fertilised egg become the man, Jesus of Nazareth?
Yes Nick,
The spirit of Christ that came from eternity was born in Bethlehem. (Micah 5:2)
_____________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed,
So we agree that the Word is the Spirit of the Son, the Spirit of Christ.
The only difference is whether that Spirit is separate from God, and when the Spirit of anointing came onto the man Jesus.
True?
Hi Nick,
1) No Nick, “The Word” is God’s HolySpirit, Jesus’ FATHER!
For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity;
but the word of the oath, which was since the law,
maketh the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.” (Heb 7:28)____________
God bless
Ed JHi Ed J,
You said, “The spirit of Christ that came from eternity was born in Bethlehem. (Micah 5:2)”
God promised to bring eternal life to man before He created the worlds, and He had a plan before He created, of which Paul teaches was in fact the coming of two Adams, two human beings. Later He revealed to the prophets that He would raise up a savior from among the people of Israel, and from the SEED of David, and beget him on a certain day, and he would become an eternal king.
NOTICE ED J, not all translators render the end of verse 2 as , but from the days of anitquity! The below translation follows exactly to what we are told in other scriptures, and your interpretation make Jesus into an antichrist. The word Christ represents a HUMAN BEING begotton with God’s Spirit, of which occurred at his baptism, as God had said to David it would occur on a certain day. The spirit of Christ is that of a MAN’s spirit that was able to deny temptation from his corruptible flesh through being anointed with God’s Spirit.
2 And thou, Beth-Lehem Ephratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Judah! From thee to Me he cometh forth — to be ruler in Israel, And his comings forth [are] of old, From the days of antiquity.
Did you catch what Micah did in this scripture Ed J?? He repeated himself.
He said Beth-Lehem transliterated word Beyth Lechem –Beth-lehem = “house of bread (food)”
a city in Judah, birthplace of David
a place in ZebulunHe said Ephratah transliterated word ‘Ephraath –Ephrath or Ephratah = “ash-heap: place of fruitfulness” n pr loc
a place near Bethel where Rachel died and was buried
another name for BethlehemHe said old translitereated word Qedem east, antiquity, front, that which is before, aforetime
front, from the front or east, in front, mount of the East
ancient time, aforetime, ancient, from of old, earliest time
anciently, of old (adverb)
beginningHe said, according to KJ translation everlasting transliterated word `owlam —long duration, antiquity, futurity, for ever, ever, everlasting, evermore, perpetual, old, ancient,
- ancient time, long time (of past)
- (of future)
Shall we go into all the verses that speak of the promise of the man to come that God would MAKE into a savior, would make into a Christ, would make into a king of the seed of Daivd?
Are you ignorant of these scriptures or do you just choose to ignore them?
Ed J, we are told that the son of man is returning, we are told that God promised David that of his seed He would bring forth an eternal king. We are told HOW a man becomes righteous, and it is through the WORKS of God’s Spirit when He anoints that Spirit onto a man’s spirit. When you turn the promised seed of David, who DIED and had his flesh not see corruption but turned into eternal life, into something else, that something else will only create an antichrist theology.
Hi Jodi,
The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of anointing. It is the Spirit of God in Christ.
Nothing to do with the spirit of any created man.
The man Jesus walked by grace in the light of scripture.
God was not wasting time giving man the law and the prophets.
They were given to enable men to become clean in the sight of God and Jesus achieved this.
Hi Nick
Jesus was a human with a human spirit. What I am saying is that man needs God’s Spirit working in the human spirit in order to be righteous. Jesus didn’t follow his own will, his spirit through the gifts of the Spirit followed God’s will.
Are we puppets, are we mere vessels, or are we a created creature that can LEARN to FOLLOW God? He is our Creator, he KNOWS how it is that we can live through optimal functioning as He designed us. Functioning that brings fulfillment in a righteous way and thus a joyous way. God is righteousness and love. Man is ignorant and thinks he can thrive on his own.
Hi Jodi,
Man is a vessel designed to house the Spirit of God but capable of housing evil too.
I would not say that the spirit of a man can house anything though.
Rather can coexist with the Spirit of glory.
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