- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Quote (kerwin @ Feb. 07 2009,03:22)
I am not sure if you do not read scripture, or if you read it why you do not understand it but I do know that scripture is extremely hard on those that teach what is false in the Christian Church.Look we once again have someone who teaches false doctrine, condemning those who teach what he sees as false doctrine. Irony anyone!
“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” – John 8:32 KJV
Meerkat wrote:
Quote From my feelings and understandings at the moment is that I love God and Christ and am trying to obey him, and learn
I am going to address a couple of disagreements between what I hear you saying and what I hear scripture saying but first I will congratulate you on your attempt to obey God. Still the words “am trying” imply you are using human effort to reach your goal and not God’s effort. If you are using human effort then you will not reach the goal of being like God in true righteousness and holiness that all Christians are called to even as it is written:
Ephesians 4:20-24(NIV) reads:
Quote You, however, did not come to know Christ that way. Surely you heard of him and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; to be made new in the attitude of your minds; and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness
In fact when scripture tells you not to live according to the law it is not speaking of the requirements of the law but rather of the human effort that the law required for those under it to expend to attempt to fulfill the law. For scripture states that if you do keep the law’s requirements even though you are not circumcised then God will regard you as if you are circumcised.
Romans 2:26(NIV) reads:
Quote If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?
And elsewhere scripture states:
Galatians 3:2-3(NIV) reads:
Quote I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort?
The only way to reach the goal of true righteousness is through faith and to have faith you have to believe you can reach that goal and that God can an will do it for you. To do that you need to believe and adhere to the entire message of the true gospel as there is only one way and that is through Jesus our Lord and his teachings. But if you do have faith then it will not be you doing the work but God doing His good works in your flesh even as He did for our Lord Jesus the Messiah.
I tend to be wordy in my explanations as I like to explain things. Now to cover the second disagreement I see between what you say and what scripture states. If I interpreting what you are saying correctly then you are saying you attempt to obey God by your own efforts because you believe that what he states is good for you. That is good but the opposite side of the coin is that you also must believe that disobedience to God is bad for you and if you truly believe that you will fear to disobey Him. In fact if you consider it Jesus must have had a reason for teaching people to fear the One that would destroy their soul by throwing him or her into hellfire.
Meerkat wrote:
Quote to me it seems that fear and unbelieving and sin and death and destruction are all related and has a relationship to wrath and the deeds of the flesh – just as life, light, love and spirit are all related and the spiritual, ultimately, has no part with the flesh.
This is the point of confusion that I am attempting to clarify with Gene but he has hit the point of denial because the teachings are uncomfortable with his worldview much like an alcoholic is uncomfortable about admitting they are an alcoholic. I hope he gets beyond it.
There are different types of fear and if your fear in born of the flesh then you will feel horror of the doom approaching you but you will do nothing to avoid it. Fear that comes from the sinful nature can also cause you to be filled with anxiety because you do not trust God. I assure you that you want nothing to do with any fear that comes from the Flesh for that is the devil tempting you. The fear that is godly is the fear that causes you to take evasive movements when standing in the way of an oncoming train. It is a fear that trusts in God to do right whatever he does. In other words it is a healthy fear that can keep you safe from danger and steady in times of trial. That is the kind of fear you need to have when scripture states to fear God. That is respect to God just like love is obedience.
I will ask you what would you think of a man who had no fear and so stood in the way of an oncoming train and did not seek to avoid it. Would you look at that man as a fool? I beg you not to be that man.
Nick………Have I not said all along the Fear in scripture is not the same as our English understanding of the word . The word Fear in scripture conveys to us reverence and respect, or AS you say (GODLY FEAR,) but to preach FEAR and TREMBLING as a means of making one right with GOD is foolish, that never worked in the Past and doesn't work now. Why not just say love and respect GOD and try to do what pleases Him as Jesus Did, Jesus was not going around fearing and Trembling God. If you take that approach then You need to tell us which of the scriptures I posted should the TOSSED OR IGNORED. Now Kerwin is changing his teachings to more align with scripture Saying the fear that is Godly. That is a different kind of Fear then (FEAR) by it self, Godly fear is simple respect and reverence, as i have said all along. Had you understood the FEAR and TERROR, GOD Himself used on ISRAEL to get them to not sin as Moses said he did, you would know why Paul said by works of LAW (FORCED COMPLIANCE THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF FEAR) never works in changing a mans Heart and Mind. “For by obedience to Law (force compliance through fear) (NO) flesh shall be justified before GOD”. there is you answer to the fear question, “But you have not come to that mountain as they did” (to fear).Get shot up with fear or as Moses said “for God has done this that the (FEAR OF HIM) be before you so that you sin not.
Again if you are going to preach and teach fear you are going against all the scriptures i quoted.
Peace and lov eto you and yours……………………………….gene
GB,
Where did I say fear saves anyone?
Where did I say justification is by fear?But it is right that you accept the Lord Jesus as your Master and Teacher if you seek to please God.
Kerwin
What people say and perceive are not always the totality of what they are thinking and what is happening with them …… I say I am “attempting” to obey and follow and admit I make mistakes because I am human ……. you assume I am doing it all on my own efforts …. however there is a synergy between God giving me hope and faith and grace and me responding, following, obeying and learning what he wants me to learn through the Spirit.
Nick………I took it as you were implying that we some how change and repent through the operation of FEAR, if i was wrong i apologizes brother.
love and peace to you and yours…………………….gene
GB,
The freedom that is in Jesus is not licentiousness.
We have become happy slaves of Jesus our Lord and His God.
Jude 1:4
For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.Hi Gene:
You keep using the following statement, and I am questioning validity of what you say in parenthesis.
Quote works of LAW (FORCED COMPLIANCE THROUGH THE MEDIUM OF FEAR) Under the Law, God gave them the law, and told them if they obeyed they would be blessed if they did not they would be cursed, but they were not forced to do any thing. The same is true in the NT except that judgment day is delayed until the last day.
94,
Obedience brings blessing.
Likewise, disobedience brings curses.Oh sure we're not “forced” to obey, but if we do not obey we are cursed. Those are some good choices!!!
Gene, I totally get it.
Quote (meerkat @ Feb. 07 2009,06:56) Kerwin What people say and perceive are not always the totality of what they are thinking and what is happening with them …… I say I am “attempting” to obey and follow and admit I make mistakes because I am human ……. you assume I am doing it all on my own efforts …. however there is a synergy between God giving me hope and faith and grace and me responding, following, obeying and learning what he wants me to learn through the Spirit.
I assume you are trying to say the implications that I am getting are wrong. If so then I understand.
942767…….So you say they were not forced to right, Your assume fear had nothing to do with it right, Then why did they stone a man to death for building a fire on the sabbath day then, and extract all these death penalties Like stoning them to death for all kinds of things they did wrong. Fornication, Adultery, etc. Law can only work through (enforcement) it that way even now. When you are going down the road and see a Highway Patrol men, why do you slow down if you don't have a fear of getting a ticket. LAW IS USELESS IF IT IS NOT ENFORCED. That why we have the police to enforce the LAW, so we will fear to break it. HUMAN NATURE IS BASICALLY LUSTFUL AND WANTS IT OWN WAY, But fear is a deterrent thats for sure, and can regulate the carnal mind , but never changes the heart or mind of a person, that take the SPIRIT of GOD and That works apart from LAW, as Paul clearly said. BY the way Law works no flesh shall be justified before GOD, why because LAW forced compliance can never make one right inside. It all make sense if you think about it.
love and peace to you and yours…………………………gene
Hi,
Those who do not have the fear of God before their eyes keep poor scriptural company.
Rom3
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17And the way of peace have they not known:
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.
Nick……….I agree with you there brother, awesome is right. We need to LOVE Him with all our hearts, mind, and souls , there is none like Our GOD and never will be.
love and peace…………………………..gene
Hi,
Heb10
26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,27But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Nick………So are you telling us you haven't sinned after you have received the (knowledge) of the truth. If so then i guess you will join all the other people you say are going to be cast into a literial lake of fire. Maybe that why you are so fearful because you looking forward for the judgement of fiery indignation, right. Who here is sinning (WILLFULLY) But we all here sin. lets not kid ourselves. The knowledge of truth does not deliver you from sin, it takes more then that to deliver you. And fear of anything will not deliver you from sin either. Fear may deture it but it will never take it out of a persons heart. The takes GOD ALONE to DO.
peace………………………………gene
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
