Evolution of Satan – From Hebrew Satan to Christian Devil?

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  • #871310
    gadam123
    Participant

    In Judeo-Christian tradition, there are many revered characters, especially in the Bible, that have helped to make Judaism and Christianity among the most practiced religions in the world today. Other than God himself, there are many other figures that illustrate exemplary behavior, such as Abraham, Moses, King David, and Jesus of Nazareth. However, there are also figures that illustrate negative models, who lead God’s people away from righteousness and into sin. Among all of these, none have the infamy and fear-inducing power of Christianity’s fallen angel Satan. As the enemy of God himself, ruler of Hell, and source of all evil and suffering in this world, Satan has served as the inspiration behind some of humanity’s greatest fears. His power is so great that in the Gospels of the New Testament, he is able to offer Jesus the world itself in return for devotion and loyalty. But how could a lowly angel, fallen from the grace of God, have become a demon capable of terrorizing all of creation?

    Even more importantly, how can the arch rival of God in Christianity not have played a major role in Judaism? To find the answers to these questions, we will explore the Hebrew Bible, what Christians call the Old Testament, to find the origins of Satan, the Prince of Darkness. Of all the names given to him, Satan is perhaps the most used and most easily recognized. Other names, such as Belzebub, came from the downgrading of deities from other Near Eastern religions that were made into lesser “divine figures” under the Judeo-Christian God.

    The name Satan, however, stems from the Hebrew word “śaṭan,” a term whose definition includes “adversary” and “accuser.” In the Hebrew Bible, śaṭan was thus never used as a proper name and served merely as a term to identify an adversary. In the Hebrew Bible there was no Satan with a capital S, and in early Hebrew traditions, there was no devil, demons, or Hell. Evil and suffering in the world instead had another source; God himself. The Book of Isaiah 45:7 reads “I form light, and create darkness, I make weal and create woe: I the Lord do all these things” (NSRV). According to the Hebrew Bible or Old Testament, God alone controlled all events and was responsible for all conditions within creation, both good and evil. This idea, however acceptable it was early in Jewish traditions, became confusing and frustrating, and led to the basic question of theodicy: How could a loving and benevolent God allow so much suffering and pain on earth?

    The eventual answer to this question within the religion of ancient Israel was found during the Persian period, 539-332 BCE, the period in which Persia controlled the entire Near East, including Israel. Perhaps the earliest point in Satan’s history may have its roots in the Persian Empire, which in turn influenced ancient Judaism. The ancient religion of Persia was Zoroastrianism, based on the teachings of a religious philosopher named Zoroaster who may have lived around 600 BCE. Among his teachings was the compelling idea of dualism. According to dualism, evil does not stem from the good God or spirit known as Ahura Mazda, “wise lord,” within the faith. Instead, there existed a separate evil being known as Ahriman, “fiendish spirit,” also known as Angra Mainya, “evil spirit,” that created death, disease, and lies.
    People had to choose whether to follow Ahura Mazda on the path of good or Ahriman on the path of evil. The idea from Persia that God himself was separate from evil would have been an acceptable answer to the early Jewish theodicy question and would have explained how there could be such suffering in a world created by a loving God. From this was born the idea that God did not personally create suffering himself, but that he would instead use other lowly figures to complete such tasks with his approval. This idea would lay the foundation for Satan’s entrance into the world.

    If there was at first no devil, then who was called śaṭan? Within the Hebrew Bible, the term is found in ten instances. Six of these uses were not to describe a divine figure, but a mere human being. The first of these is found in 1 Samuel 29:4 where the term is used to describe David himself as he is on the run from Saul, the first King of Israel who feared that David will steal his throne and end his lineage. David spends time hiding within the Philistine army who was engaged against the Israelites, but is soon forced to leave when Philistine commanders feared that he might become a śaṭan, an enemy or perhaps here a “stumbling block” to their goal of conquering Israel. In the second instance, found in 2 Samuel 19:21-23, śaṭan is used to describe Abishai, David’s nephew and a member of his court. Abishai attempts to convince David to kill Shimei, a Benjaminite who actively spoke out against David in the times of Saul. Victor Hamilton suggests that David forgives Shimei in order to gain favor among the Saulide Benjaminites and that is why David refers to Abishai as an “adversary.” The third use is found in 1 Kings 5:4, where the great king Solomon, the son of David whose reign was mostly peaceful, reflects on having no more śaṭans or “adversaries” to fight. The next two uses are found in 1 Kings 11:14 and 23, where śaṭan is used to refer to two militaristic adversaries, Hadad the Edomite and Rezon, son of Eliada, stirred up by God late in the reign of Solomon. The final human adversary is mentioned in Psalm 109:1-6 where the Psalmist indicates that a slanderous opponent had been falsely “accusing” him of wrongdoing. In this last case, śaṭan is used to describe an adversary within a legal proceeding.

    In contrast to these six human śaṭans, the Hebrew Bible also uses the term four times for celestial servants of God. These figures are typically seen as angelic beings, or (in Hebrew) benay elohim, “sons of God.” According to Elaine Pagels, these adversaries were not necessarily evil by nature, but simply carried out a thankless task at the order of God, much like the Angel of Death. The first of these cosmic adversaries can be found in the story of Balaam and the Angel in Numbers 22:22. God was angered by Balaam for travelling with the men of Moab who wished to attack Israel, a nation blessed by God. In his anger, God sends an angel bearing a sword to block their “perverse path.” However, this angel is completely invisible to Balaam and can only be seen by the donkey that Balaam is riding. The donkey, seeing this angel with a
    sword in hand, attempts to move out of the angel’s way to save Balaam’s life three times. Balaam strikes him each time. God then speaks to Balaam through the donkey, shaming him for his poor treatment of the animal, and allows him to see the angel that blocked his path. In this instance, śaṭan is seen as a fully loyal servant of God who follows his command without question; a far cry from the Satan we know today.

    Of the four cosmic adversaries in the Hebrew Bible, it is haśśaṭan (“the satan”) in the Book of Job that plays the largest role of any “adversary” in the Hebrew Bible. This story begins as God is bragging about a man named Job, one his most loyal worshippers. Haśśaṭan approaches God and challenges him to let him lay waste to the man’s property, livestock, and family, believing that Job is only loyal to God because he has a good and protected life. God accepts his challenge on the condition that he does not harm Job and haśśaṭan destroys all of Job’s possessions and kills his ten children. Much to haśśaṭan’s dismay, Job still remains loyal to God. After God once again begins to brag about Job, haśśaṭan offers another challenge. This time, he believes that if Job is physically hurt, he will turn from God. God again accepts his challenge on the condition that he does not kill Job and haśśaṭan strikes Job with boils, burns, and other injuries. Yet again, Job remains faithful to God and haśśaṭan seems to vanish from the story. According to T.J. Wray and Gregory Mobely, the Book of Job is symbolic. Job represents the people of Israel who had dealt with much suffering, including the destruction of Jerusalem and the Babylon exile that lasted from 586 to 539 BCE. Haśśaṭan in Job, although it is likely a direct ancestor of our modern Satan, is still not considered to be truly evil. Haśśaṭan is presented as a member of God’s court and has a very specific role – the accuser, or a kind of prosecuting attorney, a role found throughout Near Eastern court systems. It is his job to observe the behavior of God’s people and report any perceived shortcomings.

    The third celestial adversary of the Hebrew Bible is found in Zechariah 3:1-2, and here he reprises the role of “the accuser” or prosecuting attorney of Job. This passage recounts the vision of Joshua who sees himself standing before the heavenly court to be judged on his ability to serve as the High Priest of Jerusalem. In the vision, Joshua is wearing dirty clothes, an indication that the trial is nearing its end, and haśśaṭan has been able to make valid points against him. However, God, finding favor in Joshua, rebukes haśśaṭan and removes his dirty clothes, removing his guilt. This story solidifies haśśaṭan’s role as God’s “accuser.” However, what is most important from this story is the interaction between God and haśśaṭan, the one as prosecutor and the other as Joshua’s defense. Although it is in a legal setting, this is the first time in the Bible that a character called śaṭan is the direct adversary of God. It is perhaps these śaṭans
    of Zechariah and Job that may have planted the seeds for the belief in Satan as a true opponent of God and the bringer of evil.

    The final celestial śaṭan in the Hebrew Bible is found in 1 Chronicles, one of the last books of the Hebrew Bible to have been written (in around 300 BCE). The passage in 1 Chronicles 21:1 retells the story of David and his census already found in the Book of 2 Samuel, an earlier account of David’s deeds; the main difference is that the census of 2 Samuel is David’s idea, whereas in 1 Chronicles, it is śaṭan who incites David to do it. In 2 Samuel 24 (the earlier account), David decides to take a census of his kingdom, an action that angers God. David is offered forgiveness from God in exchange for three days of pestilence over his kingdom brought by an entity called Mashit, “the Destroyer” sent by God. In this early version of the
    story, David appears to take the census on his own accord, but we are given a glimpse of a creature with destructive power – the Mashit, or Destroyer – who may presage something about the ability of the later, much-more developed concept of Satan to bring about suffering. Perhaps this is why, in the retelling of the story found in 1 Chronicles 21, it is śaṭan who incites David to take the census, and not David’s own idea.
    This shows a rather interesting development of the concept of Satan within the Jewish tradition. It was becoming a more accepted idea that some kind of divine adversary had existed for a long time. But perhaps most startling for us is that in 1 Chronicles, Satan is used as a proper noun for the first time in the Bible.

    This seems to suggest that śaṭan had finally grown from being a simple term used to describe any kind of adversary, human or angelic, to a major source of malice or evil. This concept of Satan would continue to develop outside of the Jewish canon, in the period known as the intertestamental period. The intertestamental period refers to the 300-400 years between the completion of the Hebrew Bible (what Christian would call the Old Testament), and the beginning of the New Testament that saw a flourishing of religious writings, especially apocalyptic ones. The apocalypticism of the intertestamental writings included an attempted to further explain why there was such great suffering in the world. This was a period that saw the invasion of the Greeks in 332 BCE and the advent of Roman control of the Near East starting in 63 BCE, and the diminishment of independent Jewish control over their own lands around Jerusalem. The Jewish population was divided between those who accepted and those who rejected the
    Hellenization of society. Roman occupation also led to an increase in violence which ultimately led to a major assault on Jerusalem, a great famine against the Israelites, and the destruction of the second Temple in 70 CE. According to Elaine Pagels, this onslaught of violence and conflict left the people of Israel in both chaos and division. It is during this period that Satan’s final development takes place before he emerges in the New Testament as God’s greatest adversary.

    The first passage from this time that we will examine, the Life of Adam and Eve 17:4, retells the story of Adam and Eve, but with important changes. Primarily, it changes the serpent that tempted Eve to eat the forbidden fruit into Satan. While the idea that the serpent of Eden was Satan is now a rather common assumption, it was relatively new in the 1st century C.E., primarily because Satan himself was a still a new idea. In an earlier passage, found in the Life of Adam of Eve 12:3, it is revealed that Satan and his followers were cast away from heaven for refusing to worship God and Adam, the image of God, as they were commanded. This passage attempts to explain the origins of Satan as an outcast angel from primordial times. A similar attempt can be found in 1 Enoch, which was written somewhere between 200 to approximately 60 B.C.E. This book expands on the idea of the angelic beings known as the “Watchers” referred to in Daniel 4:13, 17 and 23 and attempts to connect them with the obscure and puzzling account from Genesis 6:1-4, in which angels descended to earth to reproduce with women. According to 1 Enoch 7, a group of “lust-filled” watchers under the leadership of a creature called Azael descended to earth to mate with human women. This created a race of giants known as the nephilim who brought demons into the world. For their treachery, God cast the perverse watchers into the fiery pit. In the final chapters of the book, Azael’s name is changed to Satan, showing the name’s growing popularity within the Jewish culture. A similar story is told in the Book of Jubilees, which was written around 160 to140 B.C.E. In this version,
    the watchers, under the leadership of Mastema, descend to earth to teach justice and righteousness as commanded by God. However, they soon abandon his command and, as in 1 Enoch, mate with human women, creating a race of nephilim, which in turn brings demonic spirits into the world. While God does cast most of these watchers into the fiery pit, Mastema is allowed to keep one tenth of his followers. Both of these stories show that the adversarial force against God had a hand in creating suffering on Earth and is a leader of a multitude of opposing forces.

    The final book which we will examine is 2 Enoch 29: 1-4, which contains what is probably the most well-known origination story of Satan – the fall from grace into a pit. Much like the previous books, it pulls from earlier scripture, specifically Isaiah 14:12 and Ezekiel 28:17-18. Satan appears as a high ranking officer in the cosmic army named the saba’ot, “angelic hosts.” With his followers, he attempts to overthrow the Kingdom of God to gain his own power. However, the rebellion fails and he is cast out of heaven and is said to fall endlessly over the “bottomless pit.” This passage draws from Isaiah the allusion to a Canaanite myth about an ancient rebellion led by “Day Star,” or “Morning Star,” from which arose the coinage of a popular name for Satan, that is the name Lucifer, the Greek form of Hebrew “Day Star.”

    In conclusion, the writing of the New Testament would bring to an end the early development of Satan and bring him center stage in Christianity as the most powerful opponent of God, Jesus Christ, and humankind. Much like many concepts within Judeo-Christian tradition, the development of Satan was a slow and gradual process. It took hundreds of years to make him the merciless King of Hell who, as the New Testament book of Revelation has it, will ultimately fall to God at the end of time. Even today Satan still plays an important role in our American society that has been much influenced by Christianity, inspiring many works of literature, music, film, and art, and references to him are meant to deter God’s faithful away from sin for fear of eternal damnation in hell. Whether Satan is real and truly as Christians believe him to be or simply the product of centuries-worth of speculation over the nature of evil, Satan’s presence on earth is very much real and alive.

    #871311
    gadam123
    Participant

    Hi All,

    This is an interesting debate on Evolution of Satan. Please do participate in the debate.

    Thank you…..Adam

    #871312
    gadam123
    Participant

    In the Christian New Testament the second Gospel Mark opens his narrative with the account of John’s baptizing Jesus. Jesus of Nazareth, after his baptism, was coming out of the water of the Jordan River when “he saw the heavens torn apart and the spirit descending like a dove on him” and heard a voice speaking to him from heaven (1:10-11). God’s power anointed Jesus to challenge the forces of evil that now dominate the world, and drove him into direct conflict with those forces. Mark frames his narrative at its beginning and at its climax with episodes in which Satan and his demonic forces retaliate against God by working to destroy Jesus. Mark begins by describing how the spirit of God descended upon Jesus at his baptism, and “immediately drove him into the wilderness, and he was in the wilderness forty days being tempted by Satan, and was with the animals, and the angels ministered to him” (1:12-13). From that moment on, Mark says, even after Jesus left the wilderness and returned to society, the powers of evil challenged and attacked him at every turn, and he attacked them back, and won. Matthew and Luke, writing some ten to twenty years later, adopted and elaborated this opening scenario. Each turns it into a drama of three temptations, that is, three increasingly intense confrontations between Satan and the spirit of God, acting through Jesus. Luke shows that the devil, defeated in these first attempts to overpower Jesus, withdraws “until an opportune time” (Luke 4:13). Luke then says what Mark and Matthew imply—that the devil returned in person in the form of Judas Iscariot to destroy Jesus, initiating the betrayal that led to his arrest and execution (Luke 22:3). All of the New Testament gospels, with considerable variation, depict Jesus’ execution as the culmination of the struggle between good and evil—between God and Satan—that began at his baptism.

    Satan, although he seldom appears onstage in these gospel accounts, nevertheless plays a central role in the divine drama, for the gospel writers realize that the story they have to tell would make little sense without Satan. How, after all, could anyone claim that a man betrayed by one of his own followers,
    and brutally executed on charges of treason against Rome, not only was but still is God’s appointed Messiah, unless his capture and death were, as the gospels insist, not a final defeat but only a preliminary skirmish in a vast cosmic conflict now enveloping the universe? The final battle has not yet been fought, much less won, but it is imminent. As Jesus warns his interrogator at his trial, soon he will be vindicated when the “Son of man” returns in the clouds of heaven (Mark 14:62); here Mark has Jesus recall one of the prophet Daniel’s visions, in which “one like a son of man” (that is, a human being), comes “with the clouds of heaven” and is made ruler of God’s Kingdom (Dan. 7:13-14). Many of Mark’s contemporaries would have read Daniel’s prophecy as predicting the coming of a conqueror who would defeat Israel’s foreign rulers.

    While at first glance the gospel of Mark may look like historical biography, it is not so simple as this, for Mark does not intend to write history, as Josephus had, primarily to persuade people of the accuracy of his account of recent events and make them comprehensible on a human level. Instead Mark wants to show
    what these events mean for the future of the world, or, in the scholarly jargon, eschatologically. Mark and his colleagues combine a biographical form with themes of supernatural conflict borrowed from Jewish apocalyptic literature to create a new kind of narrative. These gospels carry their writers’ powerful conviction that Jesus’ execution, which had seemed to signal the victory of the forces of evil, actually heralds their ultimate annihilation and ensures God’s final victory. Many liberal-minded Christians have preferred to ignore the presence of angels and demons in the gospels. Yet Mark intends their presence to address the anguished question that the events of the previous decades had aroused: How could God allow such death and destruction? For Mark and his fellows, the issue of divine justice involves, above all, the issue of human violence.

    The gospel writers want to locate and identify the specific ways in which the forces of evil act through certain people to effect violent destruction, above all, in Matthew’s words, “the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of innocent Abel to the blood of Zechariah the son of Barachiah” (23:35)—violence epitomized in the execution of Jesus, which Matthew sees as the culmination of all evils. The subject of cosmic war serves primarily to interpret human relationships—especially all-too-human conflict—in supernatural form. The figure of Satan becomes, among other things, a way of characterizing one’s actual enemies as the embodiment of transcendent forces. For many readers of the gospels ever since the first century, the thematic opposition between God’s spirit and Satan has vindicated Jesus’ followers and demonized their enemies.

    But how does the figure of Satan characterize the enemy? What is Satan, and how does he appear on earth? The New Testament gospels almost never identify Satan with the Romans, but they consistently associate him with Jesus’ Jewish enemies, primarily Judas Iscariot and the chief priests and scribes. By placing the story of Jesus in the context of cosmic war, the gospel writers expressed, in varying ways, their identification with the embattled minority of Jews who believed in Jesus, and their distress at what they saw as the apostasy of the majority of their fellow Jews in Jesus’ time, as well as in their own. As we shall see, Jesus’ followers did not invent the practice of demonizing enemies within their own group, although Christians (and Muslims after them) carried this practice further than their Jewish predecessors had taken it, and with enormous consequences.

    Like most people, our early understanding of Satan was shaped by an amalgamation of (mostly) distorted Christian doctrine, inept Sunday school teachers, superstitious relatives, and popular mythology as portrayed in books, film, and television. We grew up on the terrifying tales of the Brothers Grimm, rife with evil stepmothers and frightening chaos monsters. And, we believed in a literal evil being who stood in direct opposition to the goodness of God. That being was Satan, and he was not alone in his malicious meanderings. Indeed, Satan commanded a legion of malevolent spirits who were only too happy to work in concert with him. And these spirits, quite literally, lurked everywhere.

    We were taught (and believed) in a world of opposites: If there is a God, then there is a Devil; if there are angels, then there are also demons; if there is a heaven, then surely there is a hell. We also believed that Satan, God’s archenemy, was responsible for all the evil and suffering in the world. How else could we explain terrible things like wars, babies dying, or the existence of an evil empire that threatened to annihilate our country with atom bombs? Anyway, this was the worldview shared by most of those in our
    families and immediate social circles. It gave life a certain order: Evil and suffering entered the world through the Devil, who continues to wreak havoc in the lives of good and decent people. God, on the other hand, is all knowing, all loving, all powerful, and all good. God is on our side; he is our only chance against the powers of Satan.

    The weighty, reflective questions concerning this arrangement—including the fairness of God, the power of God, and the meaning of life—would surface occasionally, but they were generally brushed aside by our parents or termed “a mystery” by clergymen. The world, though seemingly random and chaotic to some, in a strange way made perfect sense to us. An essential component of this worldview is “the Doctrine of Terror”  that was (and still is, in many places) used by churches to quite literally scare the laity into obedience. It was a strategy used by parents, clergy, and parochial school teachers to regulate our behavior when we were not under their ever-so-watchful eyes. Even today, the use of the ever-present threat of eternal damnation—by which even the formerly faithful may be remanded to the custody of Satan and the torments of hell for all eternity—perpetuates this doctrine. Incredibly, no one ever questioned the validity of this teaching.

    We have long been fascinated with the origin of the Satan. We are intrigued with the role that villains, monsters, and demons play in literature, film, and especially in religion. But this intrigue and attraction to the terrifying things that go bump in the night leads us to an important question: Why do we humans intentionally seek out ways to feel fear? Is life not frightening enough? One need only watch the evening news on a regular basis to know that simply living in this precarious and uncertain world is a scary prospect, even on the most ordinary of days. So why are we drawn to roller coasters, stories of serial killers, and reality television shows like Fear Factor?

    #871313
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    It’s really simple. There is revelation and then a greater revelation and then a full unveiling.

    We are at the stage of the greater revelation and awaiting the time when all things will be revealed.

    Of course, not all will accept the greater revelation. It is up to the individual and how much they love truth.

    John 6:14
    “When the people saw the sign he had done, they said, “This truly is the Prophet who is to come into the world.””

    Matthew 13:17
    For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

    #871319
    carmel
    Participant

    .

    Hi all and Gadam,

    YOU: The third celestial adversary of the Hebrew Bible is found in Zechariah 3:1-2, and here he reprises the role of “the accuser” or prosecuting attorney of Job. This passage recounts the vision of Joshua who sees himself standing before the heavenly court to be judged on his ability to serve as the High Priest of Jerusalem. In the vision, Joshua is wearing dirty clothes, an indication that the trial is nearing its end, and haśśaṭan has been able to make valid points against him. However, God, finding favor in Joshua, rebukes haśśaṭan and removes his dirty clothes, removing his guilt. This story solidifies haśśaṭan’s role as God’s “accuser.” However, what is most important from this story is the interaction between God and haśśaṭan, the one as prosecutor and the other as Joshua’s defense. Although it is in a legal setting, this is the first time in the Bible that a character called śaṭan is the direct adversary of God. It is perhaps these śaṭans
    of Zechariah and Job that may have planted the seeds for the belief in Satan as a true opponent of God and the bringer of evil.

    ME: By your comment above you confirmed that scripture for you is only a literal and carnal message, despite the fact that it is God’s genuine SPIRITUAL message and nothing carnal since flesh counts for nothing when it comes to God’s work, even when it is a reference to the flesh concept of this MORTAL SATANIC world, as from God’s perspective it simply is  A DEAD SPIRIT.

    LET THE DEAD BURY THE DEAD!

    NOW TO THE HIDDEN MESSAGE OF GOD IN:

    Zechariah 3:1And the Lord  (God the Father)  showed me Jesus (THE SON OF MAN) the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord:(MICHAEL/John the Baptist)  and Satan stood on

    his RIGHT HAND to be his adversary. ( THE ONLY ANGEL, ON THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,  WHO REJECTED GOD HIDDEN IN JESUS AS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD IN LUCIFER/SATAN’S HEART, THE SON OF MAN, REBELLED AND BECAME JESUS’ DIRECT CONTENDER IN THE PROCESS OF THE HUMAN RACE, WELL CLEAR IN

    Matthew 16:22 And Peter taking him, began to rebuke him, saying: Lord, be it far from thee, this shall not be unto thee. 23Who turning said to Peter:

    Go behind me, Satan, thou art a scandal unto me:
    because thou savourest not the things that are of God,

    but the things that are of men.)

    2And the Lord (God the Father) said to Satan: The Lord (the Holy Ghost)  rebuke thee, O Satan: and the Lord (Jesus, the SON OF MAN)  that chose Jerusalem ( CHOSE THE HUMAN BODY,)  rebuke thee:

    Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? (JESUS’ PRE-EXISTENCE, SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD.Rev.13:8,

    Ephesians 4:9 Now that he ascended, what is it, but because he also DESCENDED  FIRST

    ( AFTER THE REBELLION, Well mentioned in Luke 10:18 And he said to them: I saw Satan like lightning falling from heaven.)

    into the lower parts of the earth? 10He that descended is the same also that ascended above all the heavens,

    that he might fill all things.

    3And Jesus was clothed with filthy garments: (BORN LOADED WITH ALL SINS THROUGH THE PROCESS OF THE WORLD AND STILL SINLESS, THE FACT THAT IT SAYS CLOTHED) and he stood before the face of the angel.(MICHAEL/JOHN IN JESUS’BAPTISM)  4Who answered, and said to them that stood before him, saying: Take away the filthy garments from him. (THE MOMENT JESUS DESCENDED INTO THE WATER OF THE RIVER JORDAN, THE PRECISE MOMENT GOD LOCKED SATAN IN HELL IN ORDER TO BE SUBJECT ONLY TO JESUS, WHILE HE ESTABLISHED GOD THE FATHER ON EARTH.) And he said to him: Behold I have taken away thy iniquity,(SATAN) and have clothed thee with change of garments. 5And he said: Put a clean mitre upon his head: ( A REFERENCE TO THE HOLY GHOST IN THE FORM OF THE DOVE) and they put a clean mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments, and the angel of the Lord stood.

    6And the angel of the Lord protested to Jesus, saying: 

    7Thus saith the Lord of hosts:(GOD THE FATHER) If thou wilt walk in my ways, (DURING JESUS’18 HIDDEN  YEARS OF HIS LIFE BATTLING AGAINST SATAN AND HIS DEMONS TO MAKE HIM COMMIT ONE MERE SIN FOR NO USE) and Beep my charge, (and PROCLAIM MY GOSPEL)  thou also shalt judge my house, (JESUS JUDGE OF THE HUMAN RACE.) and shalt keep my courts, ( JESUS  DIED FOR THE SAKE OF THE FATHER, AND INHERITED ALL GOD’S ATTRIBUTES,  GODMAN ON EARTH, SATANIC, AND SOVERIGN OVER ALL CREATION,  ) and I will give thee some of them that are now present (ANGELS)  here to walk with thee. (THE APOSTLES CHOSEN BY JESUS HIMSELF: John15:19 If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world,

    but I have chosen you out of the world,

    therefore the world hateth you.)

    8Hear, O Jesus thou high priest, (IN THE ORDER OF MELCHISEDEC) then and thy friends that dwell before thee, for they are portending men:( men, who by words and actions are to foreshow wonders that are to come.) for behold I WILL BRING MY SERVANT THE ORIENT. (Christ GLORIFIED, is called the Orient from his rising like the sun in the east to enlighten the world. Luke 17:22And he said to his disciples: The days will come, when you shall desire to see

    one day of the Son of man;

    and you shall not see it. 23And they will say to you: See here, and see there. Go ye not after, nor follow them: 24For as the lightning that lighteneth from under heaven, shineth unto the parts that are under heaven, so shall the Son of man be in his day.)

    9For behold the stone that I have laid before Jesus: (Another emblem of Christ, the cornerstone of his church.)

    upon one stone there are seven eyes: ( GOD’S FULFILMENT IN CHRIST, “THE STONE”  BY HIS SEVEN SPIRITS.) 

    behold I will engrave the graving thereof, (THE WRITTEN GOSPEL BY GOD’S OWN WORD) 

    saith the Lord of hosts: and I will take away the iniquity of that land in one day. 

    10In that day, saith the Lord of hosts,

    every man shell call his friend under the vine and under the fig tree.

    ( REDEMPTION OF THE WORLD Luke 17: 20-37)

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #871320
    Berean
    Participant

    THE ORIGIN OF EVIL

    From The Great Controversy by Ellen G. White

    The origin and reason for sin is a matter of great perplexity to many. Seeing evil and its terrible consequences, they wonder how so much suffering and malignancy can be reconciled with the sovereignty of a being infinite in power, wisdom and love. Unable to penetrate this mystery, they seek the explanation in false interpretations and in human traditions that close their eyes to truths essential to salvation and clearly revealed in the Bible. Others, prone to doubt and criticism, find in the fact that, despite their research, they have not succeeded in solving the problem of the existence of sin, an excuse to reject altogether the whole Bible, where are recorded the character of God, His nature and His principles with regard to sin.

    It is not possible to give an explanation of the appearance of sin that justifies its existence, but enough is known about Its origin and its ultimate consequences to be able to admire the justice and love of God in His own way. ‘act in the presence of evil. God is not responsible for the entry of sin into the world: nothing is more clearly taught by the scriptures. No arbitrary denial of divine grace, no error in divine government has given rise to discontent and revolt. Sin is a mysterious and inexplicable intruder; its presence is unjustifiable. To excuse him is to defend him. If he could be excused, if he had a purpose, he would cease to be sin. The only definition that can be given is that of the word of God: “sin is the transgression of the law”; it is the manifestation of a principle refractory to the great law of love, the basis of divine government.

    Before the appearance of evil, peace and joy reigned in the universe. Everything was in accordance with the will of the Creator. Love for God was supreme and mutual love impartial. Jesus Christ, Word and Only Begotten of God, was one with the Eternal Father; one by nature, by character, by design. He was the only being in the universe admitted to know all of God’s counsels and plans. It was through him that God created the heavenly beings. “For in him were created all the things that are in the heavens …, thrones, dignities, dominions, authorities. “(Colossians 1:16) To the Son as to the Father the entire universe was in subjection.

    The law of love being the basis of the government of God, the happiness of all creatures depended on their perfect agreement with the great principles of this law. God asks of all His creatures a loving service, a homage that flows from an intelligent appreciation of His character. Taking no pleasure in forced obedience, He grants everyone the privilege of moral freedom allowing everyone to render Him voluntary service.

    But a being wanted to pervert this freedom. Sin originated in the heart of him who after Christ had been most highly honored by God, and who was the most powerful and the most glorious of all the inhabitants of heaven. Before his fall, Lucifer, the Lightbringer, was a holy and spotless “protective cherub”. “Thus says the Lord GOD: You set the seal in perfection, you were full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. You were in Eden, the garden of God; you were covered with all kinds of precious stones …. You were a protective cherub with outstretched wings; I had placed you and you were on the holy mountain of God; you were walking among the sparkling stones. You have been blameless in your ways from the day you were created until the day iniquity was found in you. »(Ezekiel 28.12-15, 17)

    Lucifer could have retained God’s favor. Loved and honored by the angelic armies, he could have made use of his noble faculties for the good of those around him and for the glory of his Creator. But, said the prophet, “your heart is lifted up because of your beauty, you have corrupted your wisdom with your brilliance. (Ezekiel 28.12-15) Gradually, Lucifer indulged in the desire to rise above the position assigned to him. “You wanted to convince yourself that you were a god …. You said in your heart: … I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit on the mountain of the assembly. … I will ascend on the summit of the clouds, I will be like the Most High. (Ezekiel 28.6, synodal version; Isaiah 14.13, 14) Instead of making sure to exalt God to the highest degree and to ensure him the first place in the affection of his creatures, Lucifer sought to collect for his profit their allegiance and their homage. Longing for the honor that the Father had bestowed on His Son, the prince of angels yearned for a power of which Christ alone had the prerogative.

    The whole sky reflected the glory of the Creator and proclaimed his praises. As long as God had been so honored, only peace and joy had been known. My

    is a discordant note, the exaltation of the self, suddenly disturbed the celestial harmony. This feeling, so contrary to the designs of the Creator, awakened gloomy forebodings in those beings who rendered supreme honors to God. Heavenly counsels addressed urgent admonitions to Lucifer. The Son of God represented to him the greatness, goodness and righteousness of the Master of the universe, as well as the sacred nature and immutability of His law. It was God himself who had established the order that reigned in heaven. By departing from it, Lucifer dishonored his Creator and brought misfortune to his head. But this warning, given with love and compassion, only awakened a spirit of resistance. Yielding to his jealousy of the Son of God, Lucifer persisted.

    The pride that his high position inspired in him gave birth to a desire for supremacy. Forgetting the great honors he received from his Creator, proud of the brilliance of his glory, he longed for equality with God. Loved and revered by the heavenly hosts, he surpassed all angels in wisdom and magnificence. The Son of God, however, was recognized as the Ruler of heaven. He shared the power and authority of the Father, and participated in all of His counsels. Lucifer, who was not informed in the same way of all the purposes of the Almighty, asked, “Why would the Son have supremacy? Why is he high above me? ”

    Then abandoning his place in the immediate presence of God, the proud cherub went to sow discord among the angels. Operating in secrecy, and while initially hiding his real intentions under the mask of great reverence for God, he strove to raise discontent against the laws that governed heavenly beings, claiming that they imposed restrictions unnecessary. He claimed that, having regard to their holiness, angels should know no other law than their own pleasure. To gain their sympathy, he implied that God had treated him unfairly in bestowing supreme honors on his Son, asserting that by yearning for greater power and new honors he was not seeking his own advantage, but only the freedom of the inhabitants of the sky, allowing them to reach a higher degree of existence.

    In his great mercy, God endured Lucifer for a long time. He did not remove him from his high position at the first manifestation of his discontent, nor even when he began to propagate his ideas among the faithful angels. Forgiveness was offered to him on several occasions on condition that he repent and submit. Steps that only infinite love and wisdom could conceive were attempted to convince him of his error. Never before had discontent been felt in heaven. Lucifer himself did not see his mistake at first and he did not understand the true nature of his feelings. So when it was proved to him that his hostile attitude had no reason to exist, convinced of his wrongs, he saw that the divine authority was just and that he had to recognize it as such before all heaven. If he had, he could have been saved, and many angels with him. He had not yet, by that time, openly raised the banner of revolt against God. He had indeed given up his position of cherub protector, but if he had retraced his steps by recognizing the wisdom of the Creator, and had been satisfied with the place which had been assigned to him in the great divine plan, he would have been restored in its functions. But pride prevented him from submitting. Persisting in his wrong path, he maintained that he had no need to repent, and openly declared himself in struggle with his Creator.

    From that moment, he used all the resources of his gigantic intelligence to capture the sympathy of the angels who had been under his orders. For the sake of his treacherous ambition and betrayal, he did not hesitate to distort the meaning of the warnings and counsel Jesus had given him. To those who were most attached to him by bonds of friendship, he made believe that he was badly judged, that his position was not respected, and that they wanted to undermine his freedom. From there he came to attack the Son of God directly, whom he accused of intending to humiliate him before all the inhabitants of heaven. Then, to give the change to the angels who remained loyal, he accused those he could not deceive and pass into his camp, of betraying the cause of heaven, that is to say of acting as he himself acted. . To give credibility to the charge of injustice he brought against God, he distorted the words and deeds of the Creator. His system consisted of embarrassing the angels with subtle arguments concerning the purposes of God. What was simple, he shrouded her in mystery; and, by artificially distorting the facts, he cast doubt on the most formal declarations of Jé

    hovah. His high position and his intimate relationship with the divine administration gave so much weight to his words, that a great number of angels embraced the party of revolt against the authority of heaven.

    In his struggle against sin, God could use no weapons other than righteousness and truth, while Lucifer could use flattery and lies. Falsifying the words of God and slandering the plans of His government, he claimed that God was not righteous in imposing laws and regulations on the inhabitants of heaven; that in demanding submission and obedience of his creatures, he had in view only His own exaltation. So the cleverness, sophisms, and slander he used gave him a considerable advantage at the outset.

    Hiding his plans under the guise of loyalty, he maintained that he was working for the glory of God, the stabilization of His government, and the happiness of all heavenly inhabitants. While sowing insubordination among the angels under his command, he hypocritically implied that he was working to eliminate the causes of the discontent. By proposing modifications in the laws and the government, he affirmed that, far from being in revolt, he only sought to contribute to the safeguard of the harmony of the sky and the happiness of the universe.

    Taking one more step, he proceeded to blame God and his administration for the mess he himself had created, while also working hard to correct and improve Jehovah’s statutes. He only asked that he be allowed to demonstrate, by making essential changes, the validity of his claims.

    In his wisdom, God allowed Lucifer to continue his campaign until it came to light. His designs were so shrouded in mystery that it was difficult, until he fully revealed himself, to unmask the patron cherub before the heavenly hosts who cherished him and over whom he exerted a profound influence. Besides, sin had never entered the universe of God before, and the holy beings who populated the heavens had no idea of ​​its malignancy and its consequences.

    On the other hand, the government of God not extending only to the inhabitants of heaven, but to those of all created worlds, Satan (the adversary) thought that if he could drag the angels into his revolt, he could also add the other worlds to his empire. The entire universe therefore needed to understand the real character of the usurper and the true nature of his machinations. The righteousness of God and the perfection of His law had to be demonstrated before the inhabitants of heaven and of all the worlds. For the sake of the entire universe through the eternal ages, it was important that everyone could see Lucifer’s accusations against divine government in their true light. It was, moreover, undoubtedly necessary that the immutability of the law of God be established and that the accusations of the great rebel be condemned by his own works.

    Evil had to be allowed to mature. This is why, when it was decided that Satan would no longer be tolerated in heaven, God did not see fit to take his life. The Creator can only accept worship based on a feeling of love and allegiance dictated by conviction of His righteousness and goodness. Now, if the capital punishment had been inflicted on the great culprit, the inhabitants of heaven and of other worlds, still incapable of understanding the nature and the consequences of sin, would not have been able, in this summary act, to discern justice and justice. mercy of God. If Satan’s existence had been immediately suppressed, the universe would have served God out of fear rather than love. The sympathies with the leader of the revolt would not have completely disappeared, and the spirit of insurrection would not have been entirely rooted out.

    When it was announced to the rebel leader that he was to be expelled, along with all his followers, from the abode of bliss, he boldly displayed his contempt for the law of the Creator, and reiterated his assertion that angels did not need another law than their will, which would always guide them in the right way. Claiming that the divine statutes interfered with their freedoms, he declared that his purpose was to obtain the abolition of all kinds of law, adding that freed from this yoke, the celestial intelligences would enter a higher and more glorious existence.

    Unanimously, Satan and his angels accused the Son of God of being the perpetrator of the schism, saying that if they had not been rebuked they would never have rebelled. Stubborn and brazen in their revolt, and cynically calling themselves the victims of an oppressive power, the great rebel and his supporters were finally banished from heaven.

    The spirit which gave birth to the revolt in the abode of God is still fomented today on

    Earth. Satan continues among men the work begun with angels. He now rules over “the children of the rebellion.” Like him, these strive to remove the restrictions imposed by the law of God, and it is through the transgression of his precepts that they promise men freedom. The struggle against sin still arouses resistance and hatred today. When God speaks to consciences with warning messages, Satan prompts people to justify themselves and to seek sympathy. Instead of giving up their mistakes, they stir up indignation against those who censor them, as if they were the cause of the evil. From Abel until now, this spirit has always manifested itself towards those who dare to condemn sin.

    It was by slandering the character of God as he had done in heaven, and portraying him as severe and tyrannical, that Satan caused man to fall into evil. Having succeeded, he declares that it was God’s unjust restrictions that brought about the downfall of man, as they caused his own defection. The Lord, on the other hand, defines His character as follows: “A merciful and compassionate God, slow to anger, rich in kindness and faithfulness, who preserves his love unto a thousand generations, who forgives iniquity, rebellion, and sin, but who does not hold the culprit innocent. “(Exodus 34.6, 7) By banishing Satan from heaven, God was manifesting His righteousness and upholding the honor of His throne. But when, led by the deception of the great apostate, man sinned, God gave proof of his love by delivering his only begotten Son to death on behalf of mankind. It was at Calvary that the character of God was revealed. The cross proved to the entire universe that Lucifer’s rebellion was in no way attributable to the government of God.

    In the struggle between Christ and Satan, during the Savior’s ministry, the true character of the great deceiver was revealed. Nothing was more apt to extinguish in the angels and in all the intelligences of the universe the last spark of affection for Lucifer, than his cruel war against the Redeemer of the world. The blasphemous audacity with which he dared to ask Jesus to pay homage to him, the presumptuous boldness which prompted him to transport him to the top of the mountain and to the top of the temple, the perfidy he displayed in suggesting that he rush from a dizzying height, the tireless malignity with which he harassed him from place to place until he incited the priests and the people to deny his love and to cry out: “Crucify him!” Crucify him! “- all of this aroused astonishment and indignation in the universe.

    It was Satan who made the world reject Jesus Christ. Seeing that the Savior’s mercy, love, compassion, and tenderness represented in the eyes of the world the character of God, Satan used all his power and all his cunning to suppress him. He challenged each of the claims of the Son of God and employed as agents men charged with sowing his life with suffering and sorrow. The fallacies and lies by which he strove to hinder the work of Jesus, the hatred manifested by his henchmen, his cruel accusations against a life of unparalleled kindness: all this denoted a secular rancor which was unleashed on the Son. of God on Calvary like a torrent of malignancy, hatred and vengeance which the whole of Heaven contemplated in a silence frozen with horror.

    His sacrifice consummated, Jesus ascended to heaven, but he did not accept the homage of the angels until he had presented this request to the Father: “I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am. “(John 17.24) In accents of inexpressible power and love, the Father uttered this response from his throne:” May all the angels of God worship him! (Hebrews 1: 6) Jesus was spotless. His humiliation ended, his sacrifice consummated, he received a name that is above any other name.

    Now Satan’s guilt was inexcusable. He had shown himself as he is: a liar and a murderer. It was understood that the spirit which he manifested among the men who had lined up under his scepter, he would have brought into heaven if he had had the chance. He had claimed that breaking God’s law would usher in an era of glory and freedom: it was now seen to have brought only slavery and degradation.

    Lucifer’s false accusations against the character and government of God appeared in their true light. He had asserted that by exacting submission and obedience from his creatures, God was asking of them a renunciation and sacrifices to which he himself had not consented and sought only His personal glory. Now everyone could see that, in order to save a sinful race, the Master of the universe had not shrunk from the greatest sacrifice.

    e to which His love could have consented; “For God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself” (2 Corinthians 5:19). We also saw that Lucifer, thirsty for glory and domination, had opened the door to sin, while, in order to destroy evil, the Son of God had humbled himself by becoming obedient even to death.

    God had testified to horror for the principles of rebellion, and all of heaven now saw His righteousness break out, both in the condemnation of Satan and in the redemption of man. Lucifer had stated that if the law was immutable and if every transgression was to be punished, every transgressor was to be forever excluded from the favor of the Creator. He had claimed that the human species could not be redeemed and that they were, therefore, their rightful prey. But the death of Jesus in favor of man was a compelling argument: the penalty of the law had fallen on a Being who was equal with God, leaving man free to accept His righteousness and triumph over power. of Satan, just as the Son of God had conquered. So, while remaining righteous, God had justified those who believe in Jesus.

    But if Christ came to suffer and die, it is not only to ensure the salvation of man. If he came to make the law of God “great and magnificent,” it was not only for the inhabitants of this earth: his great sacrifice demonstrates to the whole universe that this law is immutable. If it could have been abolished, the Son of God should not have given his life to atone for its transgression. His death proves its immutability. The atonement granted by the love of the Father and the Son to ensure the redemption of sinners demonstrates – and could only demonstrate – to the whole universe that justice and mercy are the basis of the law and of the government of God.

    While proclaiming to the universe the immutability of the law, the cross of Calvary affirms that the wages of sin is death. This expiring cry of the Savior: “It is finished” sounded the death knell for Satan. The outcome of the great secular conflict was now decided and the final eradication of the evil assured. The Son of God went down to the grave “that by death he might annihilate him that has the power of death, that is, the devil” (Hebrews 2:14).

    At the last judgment, when the Judge of all the earth asks Satan, “Why have you rebelled against me and taken my subjects from me? “The perpetrator will keep his mouth shut. All lips will be closed and all the armies of the rebellion will remain silent.

    Lucifer’s ambition had prompted him to say, “I will exalt my throne above the stars of God … I will be like the Most High. God replied: “I am reducing you to ashes on earth … You are reduced to nothing, you will never be again! “(Isaiah 14.13, 14; Ezekiel 28.18, 19) When the day comes,” fiery as a furnace, all the haughty and all the wicked will be like stubble; the day that comes will burn them up, says the LORD of hosts, it will leave them neither root nor branch ”(Malachi 4: 1).

    God made Satan’s rebellion a lesson for the universe in all centuries to come, a perpetual witness to the nature and terrible consequences of sin. The application of the principles of Lucifer and their effects on angels and men should give a fair idea of ​​the cost of defying divine authority. This experiment was to prove that the well-being of all creatures depends on the permanence of the government and the laws of God. The story of this dark revolt was to be a lifelong safeguard for all angels, definitively revealing the character of disobedience and its penalty.

    The entire universe will have witnessed the nature and consequences of sin. The total eradication of evil which, accomplished in the beginning, would have been a matter of dread to the angels and would have tarnished the honor of God, will loudly proclaim His love and establish His honor before the universe faithful and joyfully subject to His law. Evil will never reappear. God made this statement: “Distress will not appear twice. (Nahum 1.9) The law of God, denigrated by Satan, called a yoke of slavery, will be honored as a law of freedom. A creation which has been tried and which has remained faithful will no longer seek to desert the one whose unfathomable love and infinite wisdom have been so abundantly manifested to it.

     

    #871370
    gadam123
    Participant

    Satan the Christian Devil:

    The essential function of Satan in the New Testament is to obstruct the kingdom of God as long and as thoroughly as he can. One of his favorite weapons is possession. Ordinarily the demons, Satan’s servants, do the actual possessing, though in the Johannine literature Satan does it himself. By exorcising the demons and by curing diseases sent by them, Jesus makes war upon Satan’s kingdom and thereby makes known to the people that the new age is come. “If I drive out demons by the power of God it is because the kingdom of God is come among you” (Matt. 12.28). The exorcism of demons represents no quirk here, no irrelevant accretion of superstition, but rather is central to the war against Satan and therefore to the meaning of the gospels. Each act of exorcism represented one installment of the destruction of the old age, one step closer to the time when Satan will no longer control the world.

    Demons in the New Testament are associated with a number of animals: locusts, scorpions, leopards, lions, and bears. The Devil himself has direct associations only with the serpent, the dragon, and the lion. The lion did not become a lasting symbol of the Devil because it was used for Mark the Evangelist and for Christ himself. Despite its inconsistencies, the New Testament fixed the overall concept of the Devil into a more coherent pattern than Apocalyptic literature had done. The Devil is a creature of God, a fallen angel,
    but as chief of fallen angels and of all evil powers he often acts almost as an opposite principle to God. He is iord of this world, chief of a vast multitude of powers spiritual and physical, angelic and human, that are arrayed against the coming of the kingdom of God. Satan is not only the Lord’s chief opponent; he is the prince of all opposition to the Lord. Anyone who does not follow the Lord is under Satan’s power. As Satan was the opponent of the good Lord of the Hebrews, so he is now the opponent of Christ, the Son of the
    good Lord. As Christ commands the armies of light, Satan commands those of darkness. The cosmos is tom between light and darkness, good and evil, spirit and matter, soul and body, the new age and the old age, the Lord and Satan. The Lord is the creator of all things and the guarantor of their goodness, but Satan and his kingdom have twisted and corrupted this world. Christ comes to destroy the old, evil eon and to establish the kingdom of God in its place. In the end, Satan and his powers will be defeated and Christ’s kingdom established forever.

    There is a touch of dualism here, first in the extent of Satan’s power as lord of this world and second in the intense opposition between spirit and flesh. But these dualistic tendencies were subject to the fundamental belief that the good God created the world, which, though corrupted, remains essentially good. Satan himself is a creature of God. At the end of time all evil is banished and ambiguities and dualities are resolved in Christ’s final victory.

    #871381
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gadam,

    YOU: The cosmos is tom between light and darkness, good and evil, spirit and matter, soul and body, the new age and the old age, 

    Not quite the truth I’m afraid.

    Jesus on His death on the cross justified Himself the truth, and eternal life, and immediately from that moment of His death on the cross, while He was dead on the cross, He re-established His original spirit

    “THE WORD” spoken of God, in all souls at all costs eternal life, John6:27, and the sole proprietor of the physical creation, well asserted by Jesus in John17:2

    Thus the entire cosmos is not thorn between light and darknesss as you imply. The battle between light and darkness is only ON THIS PLANET. Satan cannot go to heaven anymore to justify himself regarding the SIN OF THE FLESH LIKE HE USED TO DO AS HE PLEASES, AS JESUS CAST HIM OUT AND WON THE BATTLE IN HIS OWN DIVINE FELSH BODY! Well clear in

    John12:27 Now is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause I came (PRE-EXISTED) unto this hour. 28Father, glorify thy name. A voice therefore came from heaven: I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29The multitude therefore that stood and heard, said that it thundered. Others said: An angel spoke to him. 30Jesus answered, and said:

    This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. 

    31Now is the judgment of the world:

    OK Adam the world is judged and Satan lost all deliberate possession within souls, and he is subject to  THE HOLY SPIRIT,

    IN CHRIST! right now and TILL THE END OF TIME, in order to occupy a soul through sin. Read please:

    now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 

    32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all things to myself. 

    CAST OUT ETERNALLY FROM HIS ORIGINAL DELIBERATE POSSESSION IN HUMANS. Plus that He is only active ON THIS PLANET A SPIRIT RUNNING ABOUT LIKE A ROARING LION!

    1Peter 5:8 Be sober and watch: because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, goeth about seeking whom he may devour. 

    It is also MORE CLEARLY mentioned in

    John16:8And when he is come,

    he will convince the world of sin, and of justice, and of judgment.

    THE HOLY SPIRIT DETERMINES NOW WHAT IS SIN OR NOT,

    THE HOLY SPIRIT INSTANTLY JUDGES HUMANS. Acts 5:3 But Peter said: Ananias, why hath Satan tempted thy heart, that thou shouldst lie to the Holy Ghost, and by fraud keep part of the price of the land? 4Whilst it remained, did it not remain to thee? and after it was sold, was it not in thy power? Why hast thou conceived this thing in thy heart? Thou hast not lied to men, but to God. 5And Ananias hearing these words, fell down, and gave up the ghost. And there came great fear upon all that heard it. 

    9 Of sin: because they believed not in me. 

    AS “THE WORD” SPOKEN OF GOD IN ALL HEARTS FROM THE BEGINNING IN LUCIFER.

    10And of justice:

    because I go to the Father;

    and you shall see me no longer.

    AS A HUMAN ONLY! BUT AS 

    GODMAN!

    11And of judgment:

    because the prince of this world is already judged.

    Jesus, before His passion, spiritualized His flesh body and brought to futile the entire process of this satanic corrupted world. Well clear in

    Luke 13:32 And he said to them: Go and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and do cures to day and to morrow, and

    the third day I am consummated. 

    33Nevertheless I must walk to day and to morrow, and the day following, because it cannot be that a prophet perish, out of Jerusalem. 

    Jerusalem is a reference to the human body! Just reflect, JESUS DIED OUTSIDE JERUSALEM, NO?

    Why then He said that it cannot be that a prophet, HIMSELF, perish, out of Jerusalem. ALSO, NOTICE HE USED THE WORD “PERISH” not die.

    Jesus confirmed that HIS FLESH WAS SPIRITUALIZED AND BECAME ONE SUBSTANCE WITH THE HOLY GHOST IN HIS SOUL, which means that He, SINCE HE, SPIRITUALIZED HIS FLESH, a task which is never possible by humans,

    HE NO LONGER REQUIRED IT FOR HIMSELF and was in the position to give his body as a sacrifice,

    IN EXCHANGE FOR THE HUMAN RACE, PRECISELY ON HIS RESURRECTION!

    JESUS’ SPIRITUALIZED FLESH BODY RETURNED BACK TO THE FATHER WHO FURNISHED IT. Well clear in

    Hebrews:10:5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith: Sacrifice and oblation thou wouldest not: but a body thou hast fitted to me:6Holocausts for sin did not please thee.7Then said I: Behold I come: in the head of the book it is written of me: that I should do thy will, O God.

    Also personified in

    Genesis 22:8And Abraham said:

    God will provide himself a victim for an holocaust,

    MY SON.

    THE ABOVE IS A PERSONIFICATION OF JESUS IN ISAAC!

    BORN DIRECTLY BY GOD’S INTERVENTION WITHOUT THE INVOLVEMENT OF BOTH ABRAHAM AND SARA! REGARDING SEX!

    Genesis 18:11 Now they were both old, and far advanced in years, and it had ceased to be with Sara after the manner of women. 

    Also notice Isaac carried the wood on his shoulder on the way to be sacrificed, by his father,

    SYMBOLICALLY GOD THE FATHER

    So they went on together.

    IN THE SAME WAY, GOD THE FATHER AND JESUS WENT ON THE CROSS TOGETHER!

    34Jerusalem, Jerusalem, that killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent to thee, how often would I have gathered thy children as the bird doth her brood under her wings,(JESUS’PREXISTENCE)  and thou wouldest not? 35Behold your house shall be left to you desolate. And I say to you, that you shall not see me till the time come, when you shall say:

    Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

    Reflect on the last statement by Jesus:

    JESUS CONFIRMED THAT HE OWNS THE HUMAN BODY ETERNALLY, THE NEW JERUSALEM! 

    SATAN’S DREAM!

    NOT ONLY THAT BUT JESUS FIRST,  BY THE POWER OF THE HOLY GHOST GLORIFIED 

    IN JESUS CHRIST, 

    GODMAN ON THE CROSS, JOHN13:31-32

    RESURRECTED HIS OWN DEAD FLESH BODY,  EMBODIED WITH THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE

    ALL IN HIM, THE SECOND ADAM,

    THE MAN BORN AGAIN FROM THE DEAD, John3;3 SPIRITUALLY DEAD SOULS BOTH IN HELL AND ON EARTH, AND THEN INTEGRATED IT WITH

    THE HOLY GHOST GLORIFIED ON THE CROSS IN JESUS CHRIST

    GODMAN!

    BY WHICH TASK THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE ARE IN HEAVEN  ON THE RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER IN JESUS CHRIST SONS OF GOD, PLUS 

    THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE 

    GODS EMBODIED IN JESUS CHRIST GODMAN!

    GOD OF ALL FLESH

    TILL THE LAST DAY OF THE LORD! WELL CLEAR IN

    1 John3:2 Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and

    it hath not yet appeared what we shall be.

    We know, that, when he shall appear, (GOD THE FATHER EMBODIED IN JESUS CHRIST)

    we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is.

    Also mentioned in

    1Peter 1:3Blessed be  THE God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy hath regenerated us unto a lively hope, by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4Unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that can not fade, reserved in heaven for you, 5Who, by the power of God, are kept by faith unto salvation,

    ready to be revealed in the last time. 

    Gadam, God in Jesus, established His kingdom on earth immediately on

    Jesus’ death, and Jesus ruled earth till Pentecost as the sole  sovereign in all souls

    BOTH GOOD AND EVIL PURIFIED BY HIS OWN BLOOD. 

    RECREATED ANEW

    WHILE SATAN WAS LOCKED USELESS, AND POWERLESS  IN HELL, TILL PENTECOST!

    TILL JESUS FULFILLED THE FATHER’S WILL ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN and ALSO ESTABLISHED

    GOD’S KINGDOM ON EARTH!

    from Jesus’death THE WORLD WAS MORE THAN SAVED SIMPLY

    THE NEW PARADISE!

    Well mentioned by

    Jesus in Luke 23:43 And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.

    HUMANS WERE MORE HOLY THAN ADAM AND EVE WERE ON THEIR CREATION. despite they lived in their normal sinful way unaware of what occurred in their souls! Well asserted by Jesus in

    Luke 23;34 And Jesus said: Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.

    THUS JESUS, THE SON OF MAN, AS A SPIRIT  TOPPLED AND ERADICATED SATAN FROM ALL SOULS AND ABIDED IN ALL HUMANS, BOTH GOOD AND EVIL, Luke 17:20-37 AND

    TILL PENTECOST, HE

    IMPLANTED THE SEED OF 
    HIS FIRSTFRUIT IN EVERY CONCEPTION OCCURRED ON EARTH! 

    MATHEW 13:37 Who made answer and said to them: He that soweth the good seed is THE SON OF MAN.

    CHILDREN WERE BORN OF GOD
    IN EVERY BIRTH OCCURRED ON EARTH!

    John1:13 Who are born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man,

    BUT OF GOD.

    DEFINITELY IN JESUS CHRIST GODMAN!

    SOULS WERE READY TO BE RECEIVED STRAIGHT IN HEAVEN LED BY JESUS CHRIST, 
    ON EVERY DEATH THAT OCCURRED ON EARTH, THEY WERE SIMPLY BORN AGAIN ANEW IN JESUS,

    THE SON OF MAN

    Matthew 9:13 Go then and learn what this meaneth, I will have mercy and not sacrifice. For I am not come to call the just,

    BUT SINNERS.

    GOD’S KINGDOM CAME AND GOD’S WILL WAS ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN!

    Predicted by Jesus in

    Luke 17:20 And being asked by the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come? he answered them, and said: The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say: Behold here, or behold there. For lo, the kingdom of God is within you.

    22And he said to his disciples: The days will come, when you shall desire to see one day of the Son of man;

    and you shall not see it. ( IT’S ALL SPIRITUAL)

    23And they will say to you: See here, and see there. Go ye not after, nor follow them: 24For as the lightening that lighteneth from under heaven, shineth unto the parts that are under heaven,

    so shall the Son of man be in his day. (GLORIFIED ON HIS DEATH)

    25But first he must suffer many things, and be rejected by this generation. 26And as it came to pass in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27They did eat and drink, they married wives, and were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark: and the flood came and destroyed them all. 28Likewise as it came to pass, in the days of Lot: they did eat and drink, they bought and sold, they planted and built. 29And in the day that Lot went out of Sodom, it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. 30Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man shall be revealed. (PRE-EXISTED)

     31In that hour, (OF HIS DEATH) he that shall be on the housetop, and his goods in the house, let him not go down to take them away: and he that shall be in the field, in like manner, let him not return back. 32Remember Lot’s wife. 33Whosoever shall seek to save his life, shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose it, shall preserve it.

    34I say to you: in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35Two women shall be grinding together: the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left: two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be Left.

    36They answering, say to him: Where, Lord? 37Who said to them:

    Wheresoever the body shall be, thither will the eagles also be gathered together.

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    NEVERTHELESS, THIS KINGDOM FROM PENTECOST ONWARDS WAS SIMPLY 
    SUBJECT TO THE HUMAN RACE THEMSELVES ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL
    AS LIVING SOULS IN THE SECOND ADAM IN PARADISE ON THIS EARTH!

    John1:12 But as many as received him,
    he gave them power to be made the sons of God, to them that believe in his name. 

    From Pentecost onwards the battle is not for flesh, as

    FLESH COUNTS FOR NOTHING WHEN IT COMES TO GOD’S WORK IT IS HIS SPIRIT THAT GIVES LIFE TO ALL HIS WORK, CONSEQUENTLY

    OUR STRUGGLE IS AGAINST OUR FLESH IN ORDER TO

    ACQUIRE ETERNAL LIFE IN OUR SOULS FIRST, AS THE FLESH IS ALREADY IN HEAVEN WAITING FOR US.

    Luke 12:4 And I say to you, my friends: Be not afraid of them who kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. 5But I will shew you whom you shall fear: fear ye him, who after he hath killed, hath power to cast into hell. Yea, I say to you, fear him.

     

     

     

    #871382
    gadam123
    Participant

    Hi Carmel thanks for your lengthy post to me.

    DEFINITELY IN JESUS CHRIST GODMAN!
    SOULS WERE READY TO BE RECEIVED STRAIGHT IN HEAVEN LED BY JESUS CHRIST,
    ON EVERY DEATH THAT OCCURRED ON EARTH, THEY WERE SIMPLY BORN AGAIN ANEW IN JESUS,

    But I am not able to find this Godman in the Hebrew Bible and also the idea of souls being received in Heaven led by Jesus as quoted by you. These are all Christian imaginations and ideas which are not supported by the Hebrew Bible. The Devil (god of this world) is another creation by the intertestamental Jewish writers and by the NT writers but not found in the Hebrew Bible.

    #871386
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gadam,

    YOU: But I am not able to find this Godman in the Hebrew Bible

    ME: YOU WILL NEVER SEE HIM, since you are more carnally minded like all the hebrews of the OT. WITH EVERY RESPECT,

    you: and also the idea of souls being received in Heaven led by Jesus as quoted by you.

    These are all Christian imaginations and ideas which are not supported by the Hebrew Bible. The Devil (god of this world) is another creation by the intertestamental Jewish writers and by the NT writers but not found in the Hebrew Bible.

    ME: YOU ARE NOT MENTIONED IN THE HEBREW BIBLE Gadam,

    BUT YOU EXISTED AND WAS PART OF THE CREATION OF THE OT. AS A SPIRIT HIDDEN LOCKED  IN THE PHYSICAL CREATION, WHERE “THE WORD” JESUS, THE SON OF MAN TO BE WAS SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD;  Rev.13:8 PRECISELY IN ALL HEARTS OF ALL CREATURES ETERNAL LIFE. 

    The Hebrew Bible does not include GOD’S ENTIRE PROCESS OF THE KINGDOM OF HIS SON.

    APART from that, you don’t see the hidden spiritual message in it.

    Zechariah 3:1And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him. 2And the LORD said unto Satan, The LORD rebuke thee, O Satan; even the LORD that hath chosen Jerusalem rebuke thee: is not this a brand plucked out of the fire? 3Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel. 4And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment. 5And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.

    6And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying, 7Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

    8Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, thou, and thy fellows that sit before thee: for they are men wondered at: for, behold, I will bring forth my servant the BRANCH. 9For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua; upon one stone shall be seven eyes: behold, I will engrave the graving thereof, saith the LORD of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of that land in one day. 10In that day, saith the LORD of hosts,

    shall ye call every man his neighbour under the vine and under the fig tree.

    The above scripture tells you all about Jesus’ pre-existence and his eventual task and His Gospel on earth both as the Son of Man and the Son of God.

    John1:47 Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! 48Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree,

    I saw thee. (IN ZECHARIAH)

     49Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel. 50Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these. 51And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son

    Genesis 28:And he saw in his sleep a ladder standing upon the earth, and the top thereof touching heaven: the angels also of God ascending and descending by it; 13And the Lord leaning upon the ladder, saying to him: I am the Lord God of Abraham thy father, and the God of Isaac; the land, wherein thou sleepest, I will give to thee and to thy seed.

     

    Deuteronomy 18 I will raise them up a prophet out of the midst of their brethren like to thee: and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. 19And he that will not hear his words, which he shall speak in my name, I will be the revenger. 

    THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE CONFIRMS THAT

    THE HEBREW BIBLE IS OF NO USE FOR SALVATION. 

    AS GOD WAS HIDDEN, UNKNOWN AND REJECTED BY HIS OWN SUPPOSED PEOPLE, AND GOD FURNISHED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE WITH JESUS AND HIS GOSPEL ;

    THE TRUTH

    IN ORDER TO REVEAL HIMSELF IN FLESH AND BLOOD IN JESUS!

    Gadam, DID YOU READ :

    Jesus the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible by Eugen J. Pentiuc ?

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #871387
    gadam123
    Participant

    Hi Carmel I appreciate your unending quotations on the Godman.

    THE ABOVE SCRIPTURE CONFIRMS THAT

    THE HEBREW BIBLE IS OF NO USE FOR SALVATION.

    AS GOD WAS HIDDEN, UNKNOWN AND REJECTED BY HIS OWN SUPPOSED PEOPLE, AND GOD FURNISHED THE ENTIRE HUMAN RACE WITH JESUS AND HIS GOSPEL ;

    THE TRUTH

    IN ORDER TO REVEAL HIMSELF IN FLESH AND BLOOD IN JESUS!

    Gadam, DID YOU READ :

    Jesus the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible by Eugen J. Pentiuc ?

    So you nullify the Hebrew Bible and its religion based on which Christianity taken its birth?

    You questioned me where I was in the Hebrew Bible? Yes I was very well available in our first parents Adam and Eve and by the way my name is Adam too.

    What salvation you are talking about? Is it from Satan the Devil or from so called non-existing eternal Hell?

    Hebrew Bible talks about relationship with God Yahweh who is the author and source of every living being.

    Effectively the Hebrew Bible does not talk about so called life beyond death in fact it talks about the present life than the imaginative eternal life.

    The book “Jesus the Messiah in the Hebrew Bible” by Eugen J. Pentiuc is a Christian Trinitarian book

    “…..Truly this book is imaginative & shows a propensity for personal interpretation. It is a book of ideas more than a scholarly book one can use for support of the Christian faith” a comment from Amazon.

    Zechariah 3:1-2 was already discussed in my first post on this thread.  Please share something new on the topic “Satan”

     

    #871405
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gadam,

    YOU: So you nullify the Hebrew Bible 

    John 5:39Search the scriptures, for you think in them to have life everlasting; and

    the same are they that give testimony of me.

    40And you will not come to me that you may have life.

    ME: Gadam, Jesus in the above scriptures confirmed that the Hebrew bible was of no use for the Jews SINCE THEY REJECTED JESUS, thus it is also of no use anymore,

    it has done its task, 

    FROM THAT MOMENT ON

    It is Jesus’ Gospel that gives life! 

    YOU:and its religion based on which Christianity taken its birth?

    ME: Matthew 21:40When therefore the lord of the vineyard shall come, what will he do to those husbandmen? 41They say to him: He will bring those evil men to an evil end and will let out his vineyard to other husbandmen, that shall render him the fruit in due season.

    42Jesus saith to them: Have you never read in the Scriptures: The stone which the builders rejected, the same becomes the head of the corner? By the Lord this has been done; and it is wonderful in our eyes.

    43Therefore I say to you, that the kingdom of God shall be taken from you,

    and shall be given to a nation yielding the fruits thereof. 

    44And whosoever shall fall on this stone, shall be broken:

    but on whomsoever it shall fall, it shall grind him to powder.

    45And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables,

    they knew that he spoke of them. 

    46And seeking to lay hands on him, they feared the multitudes: because they held him as a prophet.

    Luke 5:36And he spoke also a similitude to them: That no man putteth a piece from a new garment upon an old garment; otherwise he both rendeth the new, and the piece taken from the new agreeth not with the old.

    37And no man putteth new wine into old bottle: otherwise the new wine will break the bottles, and it will be spilled, and the bottles will be lost.

    38But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

    39And no man drinking old, hath presently a mind to new: for he saith,

    The old is better.

    ME:  Reading the above scriptures is enough to understand why

    the Hebrew Bible gave birth to Christianity!

    YOU: Please share something new on the topic “Satan”

    ME: SO AFTER ALL YOU ARE STILL INTERESTED IN MY IMAGINATION!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

     

    #871478
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Evolution or revelation.

    The New Testament is the latter. A fulfillment of the old and a fulfillment of the law.

    God’s plan is a process.

    Not all participate willingly in the process.

    Because men have been blessed with free-will.

    #871484
    Berean
    Participant

    Hi Proclaimer

    Not all participate willingly in the process.

    Because men have been blessed with free-will.

    Amen Proclaimer !

    God IS LOVE

    #871495
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gadam,

    YOU:  Please share something new on the topic “Satan”

    Here is something definitely new Ezekiel 44:1  hereunder, but I’m afraid first, one must distinguish who Satan is,  and also what this scripture is telling us regarding Satan.

    Have a go as I am only good for imaginations, in the same time I make room for you instead so you can give your insight/imaginations, hopefully, God knows, that we might somehow be in a way parallel, keep in mind though that my insight is totally spiritual, and very bizarre I believe. To give you a hint I also am posting a piece of scripture related to it!

    Ezekiel 44:1 And he brought me back to the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary, which looked towards the east: and it was shut. 2And the Lord said to me: This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall pass through it: because the Lord the God of Israel hath entered in by it, and it shall be shut 3For the prince. The prince himself shall sit in it, to eat bread before the Lord: he shall enter in by the way of the porch of the gate, and shall go out by the same way.

    Song of Solomon 8:1Who shall give thee to me for my brother, sucking the breasts of my mother, that I may find thee without, and kiss thee, and now no man may despise me?

    More to come anyway regarding Satan, who evolved drastically in the Hebrew Bible, as much as other scripture did also especially once the Christian introduced their Gospel, and the Jews started to look at their Bible from completely different perspectives, in order to eradicate Jesus’ divinity and His task on earth, ignoring the pure fact that throughout the Hebrew Bible, from Genesis 1:1 Jesus is hidden and buried like a treasure in a field, as much as SLAIN LIKE A LAMB FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD Rev.13:8!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #871893
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    #872034
    gadam123
    Participant

    Christianity and Judaism on Satan….

    #872038
    gadam123
    Participant

    Does Hebrew Bible talk about the fall of so called Satan? A Christian view..

     

     

     

     

    #872039
    carmel
    Participant

    Hi Gadam,

    YOU: Does Hebrew Bible talk about the fall of so called Satan? A Christian view..

    Job 6 Now on a certain day when the sons of God came to stand before the Lord, Satan also was present among them. 7And the Lord said to him: Whence comest thou ? And he answered and said:

    I have gone round about the earth, and walked through it. 8And the Lord said to him:

    Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a simple and upright man, and fearing God, and avoiding evil?

    9And Satan answering, said: Doth Job fear God in vain ?

    10Hast not thou made a fence for him, and his house, and all his substance round about, blessed the works of his hands, and his possession hath increased on the earth ?

    11But stretch forth thy hand a little, and touch all that he hath, and see if he blesseth thee not to thy face.

    12Then the Lord said to Satan: Behold, all that he hath is in thy hand:

    only put not forth thy hand upon his person.

    And Satan went forth from the presence of the Lord.

    Zecharaiah3:1And the Lord shewed me Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord:

    and Satan stood on his right hand to be his adversary.

     2And the Lord said to Satan: The Lord rebuke thee, O Satan:

    and the Lord that chose Jerusalem rebuke thee:

    Is not this a brand plucked out of the fire?

    Adam, according to your CORRUPTED WISDOM OF THE WORLD,

    WHO IS THE LORD WHO CHOSE JERUSALEM???

    WHAT SATAN IS, IN RELATION TO THE ABOVE 2 PIECES OF THE HEBREW BIBLE?

    SHOW US YOUR WORLDLY CARNAL WISDOM, AS YOU YOURSELF

    DON’T RELY MUCH ON GOD’S  SPIRITUAL WISDOM! WITH EVERY RESPECT!

     

    Deuteronomy 18 :15 The Lord thy God will raise up to thee a PROPHET of thy nation and of thy brethren like unto me:

    him thou shalt hear: 

    16As thou desiredst of the Lord thy God in Horeb,

    when the assembly was gathered together, and saidst:

    Let me not hear anymore the voice of the Lord my God, neither let me see any more this exceeding great fire, lest I die.

    OK Adam the Jews rejected God simply AS THEY WERE PRIMITIVE PEOPLE, CARNAL MINDED, HARD HEADED, AND NOT ABLE TO UNDERSTAND NEITHER MOSES NOR GOD. AND ALSO

    JESUS, AS THEY KILLED HIM.

    17And the Lord said to me:

    They have spoken all things well.

    18 I will raise them up a prophet out of the midst of their brethren

    like to thee:

    ARE YOU, Adam, in the position to specifically elaborate and give us your understanding regarding the AMAZING similarities between Moses and Jesus’ GENERAL LIFE even before they were born, always according to the HEBREW LITERATURE IN GENERAL NOT JUST THE BIBLE??? DID YOU READ THE KABBALAH, THE ZOHAR, AND SO ON.

    and I will put my words in his mouth,

    and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him.

    19And he that will not hear his words,

    which he shall speak in my name,

    I will be the revenger. 

    WHERE CAN YOU FIND ANYTHING IN THE SCRIPTURES ABOVE WHICH YOU CAN ATTRIBUTE  TO ISRAEL. ON THE OTHER HAND THE ABOVE SCRIPTURES ARE ALL ATTRIBUTED TO

    THE TRUE ISRAEL!

    JESUS THE MESSIAH! 

    NOT ACCORDING TO THE PRIMITIVE CARNAL  MINDED PEOPLE LIKE THE JEWS ARE,  Adam, but ACCORDING TO

    THE GOD OF ABRAHAM 

    THE GOD OF ISAAC, and 

    THE GOD OF JACOB/ISRAEL

    EVEN THE ABOVE  NAME YOU WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND SINCE YOU ARE MILES AWAY FROM THE SPIRITUAL PROCESS OF

    THE HEBREW BIBLE! WITH EVERY RESPECT!

     

    Peace and love in Jesus Christ

    #872040
    Proclaimer
    Participant

    Revelation for the children of God can be considered evolution for others.

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