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Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,17:32) Hi not3,
Yep. A son of man. He overcame temptation.Rom8
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Hi Mandy,
Yes, your questions are genuine and appropriate in this context. I fully agree with the quote of brother Nick above. I know you will be interested in knowing Jesus' experiences in temptation and overcoming it. It's good debate with Nick. I will also join later. For time being I am a spectator.
Love to you
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,19:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 06 2008,19:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,18:20) Hi not3,
He was found to be clean and then anointed.
He was tempted after that too but fought Satan with the sword of the Spirit-the Word of God.
He resisted Satan and Satan fled from him just as we must too.James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Resist – to obstain with difficulty.Was it difficult for Jesus to not give-in to temptation? This idea seems to fly in the face of preexistence ideas, imo.
However it raises the question still that if he was God in the flesh, or if he was an incarnation of sorts, or if he was anything *other than* a man…..how could he have entertained sin? In other words, could an incarnation be tempted?
Hi not3,
Was he not a man just like us?
Why should his unusual origins made him a superman?Men are not supermen by any cause.
This debate actually goes back to conception (I know, I know, but it does) and preexistence.For if Jesus is truly conceived and his DNA was divided and he became a *new* individual, not a incarnate God OR a previously existing spirit son – then he was a man as you say; capable of sinning. However, if anyone wishes to claim he is one of the above preexisting persons then I believe he would be uncapable of sin or even temptation.
For Trinitarians: God cannot be tempted.
For preexistent son: He was never truly conceived, only grew along side of man in the womb, because if he was conceived his DNA would be FUSED with Mary's and a different person would be the result. Your preexistent son would be ALTERED. No one is willing to conceed this.
So my question still remains according to Jesus' ability to have a sin nature and yet not sin. Did he feel the lusts of sin tugging at him? Is it possible for that to co-exist with someone who is from heaven?
Mandy….yes it is possible, Jesus, said to him who overcomes even as i have, Shows there was a true overcoming process taking Place. It also says He was tempted in all manner of sin and yet was without sin.
The key though is (even), as i Have, shows it's the same Process Jesus used that we must use. Jesus overcame not by the power of His flesh, but by the power of God working in Him. The Father in me< He doth the works. It must be the same with us also.
peace to you and yours………gene
Hi All:
I just want to say that this doctrine that teaches “once saved always saved” is a false doctrine by which many will have been deceived.
The Apostle Paul states:
Quote Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
Rom 6:2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Rom 6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [his] resurrection:
Rom 6:6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with [him], that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sinEsentially, the “once saved always saved” doctrine deceives those who believe this into thinking that they can live their lives anyway that they wish since salvation is by grace and they will be saved in spite of how they might live their lives.
The Apostle Paul continues saying,
Quote Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?And in the book of Hebrews we find the following scriptures stating:
Quote Hbr 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hbr 10:27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hbr 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?Can a man depart from the faith once saved? I believe that the following scripture says that they can.
Quote 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils God Bless
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 07 2008,05:02) Mandy….yes it is possible, Jesus, said to him who overcomes even as i have, Shows there was a true overcoming process taking Place. It also says He was tempted in all manner of sin and yet was without sin. The key though is (even), as i Have, shows it's the same Process Jesus used that we must use. Jesus overcame not by the power of His flesh, but by the power of God working in Him. The Father in me< He doth the works. It must be the same with us also.
peace to you and yours………gene
Gene,
Thanks for clarifying, I always appreciate your take on things.All I can say is that I must be an utter failure then, Paul too. Because the very things that we want to do (good) those are things we do not do……yet Jesus did!
The very things that we do not want to do (bad) those are the things we do……and Jesus didn't!
We are bound over to a sinful nature. Was Jesus also “bound” over?
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2008,04:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,19:24) Quote (Not3in1 @ July 06 2008,19:18) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,18:20) Hi not3,
He was found to be clean and then anointed.
He was tempted after that too but fought Satan with the sword of the Spirit-the Word of God.
He resisted Satan and Satan fled from him just as we must too.James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Resist – to obstain with difficulty.Was it difficult for Jesus to not give-in to temptation? This idea seems to fly in the face of preexistence ideas, imo.
However it raises the question still that if he was God in the flesh, or if he was an incarnation of sorts, or if he was anything *other than* a man…..how could he have entertained sin? In other words, could an incarnation be tempted?
Hi not3,
Was he not a man just like us?
Why should his unusual origins made him a superman?Men are not supermen by any cause.
This debate actually goes back to conception (I know, I know, but it does) and preexistence.For if Jesus is truly conceived and his DNA was divided and he became a *new* individual, not a incarnate God OR a previously existing spirit son – then he was a man as you say; capable of sinning. However, if anyone wishes to claim he is one of the above preexisting persons then I believe he would be uncapable of sin or even temptation.
For Trinitarians: God cannot be tempted.
For preexistent son: He was never truly conceived, only grew along side of man in the womb, because if he was conceived his DNA would be FUSED with Mary's and a different person would be the result. Your preexistent son would be ALTERED. No one is willing to conceed this.
So my question still remains according to Jesus' ability to have a sin nature and yet not sin. Did he feel the lusts of sin tugging at him? Is it possible for that to co-exist with someone who is from heaven?
Hi not3,
Sin is of the flesh.
That is why Paul wished to be free of it.
Jesus was not of the flesh till conceived of Mary.Hi GB,
God was in him till the Jordan.
He had not sinned before his anointing.
God was with him before then as his father.[acts 10]Mandy…… remenber Jesus Had the fullness of the spirit we have the earnest of it. I think God wants us to struggle with sin to see How harmful it really is in our lives. What Paul said is an excelent example of what happens in our lives, we have all done what paul was talking about, we want to do good and at times we do but some times lust working through our bodies Has its way and we feel retched when that happens and get on our knees an ask God to forgive Us and He does, but more He cleans us from that sin also. He may leave it on you for a while so you can grow in awareness and what it does and how it makes you feel, but as long as you keep asking for forgiveness and help in the end God will give you victory.
What i have noticed as i get older a lot of the lust type sins weaken are are not as big a problem any more, and remember when Peter said He wo suffers in the flesh has ceased from sin, i believe that works also, when a person is suffering he is thinking abut any Lusts of flesh or of the eyes, But pride is also a problem we have to fight.
Mandy It's not easy God wants us all to Come to a full Knowledge of sin in our lives and others also, this experience were going through will be remembered for ever, God did not Put us here in this kind of world full of sin to ever Forget it. We are learning to Hate evil and love Good the hard way. Also you remind me of those in the kingdom Mentioned in Revelations “For these Loved Not their lives unto death”. we all need to come to that and we will with God's Help.” I used to tell people some times i feel like i have been pulled through a Knot hole backwards.
Just keep praying and trusting God no matter what sins you Have, thats what i do.
Love you and yours……….gene
Wonderful post it is brother Gene. We have to thank our God who gives us victory through Jesus our Lord as mentioned in 1 Cor 15:57
“But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ”.
Thanks
AdamHi GM,
Indeed He gives US the victory
If we walk in His ways.There is no further sacrifice if we deny the Master.
Quote (Not3in1 @ July 07 2008,04:48) This debate actually goes back to conception (I know, I know, but it does) and preexistence. For if Jesus is truly conceived and his DNA was divided and he became a *new* individual, not a incarnate God OR a previously existing spirit son – then he was a man as you say; capable of sinning. However, if anyone wishes to claim he is one of the above preexisting persons then I believe he would be uncapable of sin or even temptation.
For Trinitarians: God cannot be tempted.
For preexistent son: He was never truly conceived, only grew along side of man in the womb, because if he was conceived his DNA would be FUSED with Mary's and a different person would be the result. Your preexistent son would be ALTERED. No one is willing to conceed this.
So my question still remains according to Jesus' ability to have a sin nature and yet not sin. Did he feel the lusts of sin tugging at him? Is it possible for that to co-exist with someone who is from heaven?
Any more thoughts on Mandy's question?Hi Not3,
Spirit beings do not have DNA as such is only required by earthly beings.
A body was created for him.ps 139
13For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb.14I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well.
15My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth.
16Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them.
Heb10
5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:Hi brother Nick,
It is talking about Jesus' formation in the womb of his mother Mary not any preexistence. In fact this verse in Ps 139 was opposed by preexistence believers like T8 and yourself earlier when brother Gene has quoted to prove Jesus' human birth. Please go back and see in the preexistence thread you will realise that. Any how I am happy you are interpreting this verse for Jesus' birth.
Blessings
AdamHi brother,
Those are prophetic words about Jesus how he is realising about his formation in his mother by God the creator. Please understand no heavenly being can be formed in a mortal woman.Here are some verses how Job and others realised their birth process.
Job 10:
8 “Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet thou dost destroy me.9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?
10 Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese?
11 Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.
12 Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit”
Also David in Ps 119:
73 “Your hands have made me and formed me. Give me understanding, that I may learn your commandments”.Blessings
AdamYou are welcome brother Nick.
Please do share more on my favourite topic “the preexistence”
Blessings
AdamHi GM,
Jesus said to SEEK.
James said we do not have because we do not ask.We should listen also to Peter and knowing we own nothing useful instead grasp for all available grace.
2Peter1
1Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:2Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
3According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
4Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
5And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
12Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.
13Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;
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