eternal salvation

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,11:11)

Hi 94,
Love is grace

Nick…..thats not the definition of the word GRACE, look it up before you commit on it. You will find it says, It's God's influencing on our hearts and minds. A powerful force that changes the way we look at things and that in turn causes us to do thing differently. In fact you cannot change without it working in your life. This is the problem i see with the Ideology of Free Will it tends to leave God out of the Picture and focuses conversion on the person not on God who brings change about in our lives. It's a way of sealing God's glory.

imo……gene

July 6, 2008 at 4:12 am#96001

Participant

Hi 94,
You say
'I have heard you state many a time that we are not saved simply because we believe but that we have to obey. '

The word is sown.

Grace leads also to obedience.

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

July 6, 2008 at 4:23 am#96004

942767

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,16:12)

Hi 94,
You say
'I have heard you state many a time that we are not saved simply because we believe but that we have to obey. '

The word is sown.

Grace leads also to obedience.

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Hi Nick:

You aren't talking to a babe in Christ.

July 6, 2008 at 4:29 am#96007

Participant

Nick….> if you understood the working power of grace you could better understand our points.

July 6, 2008 at 4:31 am#96008

Participant

Hi GB,
Do you believe access to GRACE is access to enabling strength
or BEING OVERWHELMED BY FORCING POWER?

July 6, 2008 at 5:04 am#96018

Participant

Nick…..If you understood the true definition of the word (GRACE) you would not be so confused. Look it up and let it sink in.

July 6, 2008 at 5:23 am#96022

Participant

Hi GB,
Number 5485
Transliteration:
charis {khar'-ece}
Word Origin:
from 5463
TDNT:
9:372,1298
Part of Speech:
noun feminine
Usage in the KJV:
grace 130, favour 6, thanks 4, thank 4, thank 2192 3, pleasure 2, misc 7

Total: 156
Definition:
grace
that which affords joy, pleasure, delight, sweetness, charm, loveliness: grace of speech
good will, loving-kindness, favour
of the merciful kindness by which God, exerting his holy influence upon souls, turns them to Christ, keeps, strengthens, increases them in Christian faith, knowledge, affection, and kindles them to the exercise of the Christian virtues
what is due to grace
the spiritual condition of one governed by the power of divine grace
the token or proof of grace, benefit
a gift of grace
benefit, bounty
thanks, (for benefits, services, favours), recompense, reward

So back to the question?

July 6, 2008 at 5:26 am#96024

Participant

Quote (gollamudi @ July 06 2008,14:34)

Yes Mandy, I agree with you. The problem with us is we are not perfect in loving God, if we see Jesus he was our perfect example in loving our Father. We have our sinful nature which craves against the laws of God it is difficult to love God in perfection. Therefore out of the two natures available within us whichever dominates we obey that. This is a day-to-day struggle and we are in the journey of perfection. So don't worry about your failure in obeying God's commandments at certain times. It is true with me also.
The portion you highlighted from my post is something to do with real love with perfection.
Love to you
Adam

This brings up an interesting question for me – did Jesus also have a sin “nature”? If not, how is it that he struggled as we do (in every way was tempted as we are)?

If he did have a sin nature but merely pressed on through the temptations…..did he crave what is contrary to God as we sometimes do? Hmmmm

July 6, 2008 at 5:32 am#96028

Participant

Hi not3,
Yep. A son of man. He overcame temptation.

Rom8
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

July 6, 2008 at 5:42 am#96029

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,17:23)

So back to the question?

Ncik…. can't you read? Lets read part of it together and then you might get it OK.

Favor of the merciful kindness (BY WHICH) God, (EXERTING) his holy (INFLUENCE) (upon Souls), (TURNS) them to Christ, (KEEPS), (STRENGTHENS), (INCREASES) them in Christian (FAITH) (KNOWLEDGE), AFFECTION), and KINDLES them to the exercise of the Christian virtues.

what is due to grace? the (SPIRITUAL) condition of one (GOVERNED) by the (POWER) of (DIVINE) GRACE>

Nick…..>Learn what true Grace is and you will see God's work and know we are saved by Grace and that not of ourselves.

July 6, 2008 at 6:13 am#96039

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,17:32)

Hi not3,
Yep. A son of man. He overcame temptation.

Rom8
2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

But how could he crave what was contrary to God when God had just filled him at the Jordan?

July 6, 2008 at 6:15 am#96040

Participant

Hi GB,
Let me say it one more time for you.
Salvation is of the grace of God
All are not said to be saved
The grace of repentance
is not given to all

July 6, 2008 at 6:20 am#96041

Participant

Hi not3,
He was found to be clean and then anointed.
He was tempted after that too but fought Satan with the sword of the Spirit-the Word of God.
He resisted Satan and Satan fled from him just as we must too.

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

July 6, 2008 at 6:28 am#96042

Participant

Nick…..So , WHO SAID IT WAS GIVEN TO ALL AT THIS TIME? I HAVE NOT SAID THAT>

Again another false insinuations. What spirit is leading you to try to make out like i said something i never said?

July 6, 2008 at 7:13 am#96051

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,18:15)

Hi GB,
Let me say it one more time for you.
Salvation is of the grace of God
All are not said to be saved
The grace of repentance
is not given to all

Romans 11:32

For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

July 6, 2008 at 7:17 am#96053

Participant

Hi not3,
Mercy is accessible to all.
But repentance is given to the elect.
Men who know they are sinners seek rescue.

Lk7
29And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

July 6, 2008 at 7:18 am#96054

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,18:20)

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Resist – to obstain with difficulty.

Was it difficult for Jesus to not give-in to temptation? This idea seems to fly in the face of preexistence ideas, imo.

However it raises the question still that if he was God in the flesh, or if he was an incarnation of sorts, or if he was anything *other than* a man…..how could he have entertained sin? In other words, could an incarnation be tempted?

July 6, 2008 at 7:20 am#96055

Participant

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,19:17)

Hi not3,
Mercy is accessible to all.
But repentance is given to the elect.
Men who know they are sinners seek rescue.

Lk7
29And all the people that heard him, and the publicans, justified God, being baptized with the baptism of John.

30But the Pharisees and lawyers rejected the counsel of God against themselves, being not baptized of him.

It only stands to reason that if a man is bound over to disobedience, that he cannot know if he is a sinner. I believe that God has mercy on him regardless. This seems to be God's plan….

July 6, 2008 at 7:24 am#96057

Participant

Quote (Not3in1 @ July 06 2008,19:18)

Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,18:20)

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Resist – to obstain with difficulty.

Was it difficult for Jesus to not give-in to temptation? This idea seems to fly in the face of preexistence ideas, imo.

Hi not3,
Was he not a man just like us?
Why should his unusual origins made him a superman?

Men are not supermen by any cause.

July 6, 2008 at 7:25 am#96058