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Chosenone…..Read where Jesus Peter who He was and what caused that to happen and what (POWER) would build the church, You will fine it's God Power alone who is the true builder of the Church. With out the revelation of who Jesus is you would have never really come to Him. God drew (dragged) you to Christ. Salvation is an exclusively work of God Himself. He works His will by changing out thoughts through His power to give us guiding thoughts,this is what GRACE means, Its God influencing out Minds and hearts. THE KEY is in understanding the WORD GRACE properly.
peace brother…………gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2008,13:14) Chosenone…..Read where Jesus Peter who He was and what caused that to happen and what (POWER) would build the church, You will fine it's God Power alone who is the true builder of the Church. With out the revelation of who Jesus is you would have never really come to Him. God drew (dragged) you to Christ. Salvation is an exclusively work of God Himself. He works His will by changing out thoughts through His power to give us guiding thoughts,this is what GRACE means, Its God influencing out Minds and hearts. THE KEY is in understanding the WORD GRACE properly. peace brother…………gene
Hi Gene:Were you addressing me with this post by chance?
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2008,13:35) 942767….Yes it was you i was addressing, sorry chosenone.
And so, tell me about “grace”.942767….Grace is not what most think, they think it means unmerited Pardon
and while that is implied that is not its strong meaning though, Grace is defined as God influencing the heart or mind. Most think it deals with just forgiveness of sin. But scripture show Jesus was a man full of (GRACE) divine influence was causing Jesus to do the things he did, You see Grace had nothing to do with the forgiveness of sin in Jesus because he had no sin, also Paul said.”I labored more then all the rest, but it was not I that Labored but the GRACE of God that labored.” Grace is far more then Just unmerited pardon it is God working Power in a person.peace to you and yours……….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 05 2008,13:14) Chosenone…..Read where Jesus Peter who He was and what caused that to happen and what (POWER) would build the church, You will fine it's God Power alone who is the true builder of the Church. With out the revelation of who Jesus is you would have never really come to Him. God drew (dragged) you to Christ. Salvation is an exclusively work of God Himself. He works His will by changing out thoughts through His power to give us guiding thoughts,this is what GRACE means, Its God influencing out Minds and hearts. THE KEY is in understanding the WORD GRACE properly. peace brother…………gene
Hi GB,
True.
Grace is what causes all good things.
The source of grace for us is Christ Jesus.2 Timothy 2:1
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
So unless men come to the source then they don't have that access.
2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,Not all are in the US
Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.Quote (gollamudi @ July 06 2008,03:35) Excellent definitons of “Grace” from both brothers Gene and Nick. Do share more on this.
Thanks
Adam
Yes, please do share more of this and look up the definitions for grace in the scriptures that you quote, and give us those as well. Thanks.Hi GM,
Grace=charis.
what is GIVEN
We have nothing useful to offer God.
We too must be emptied of our intellectal vanities and find grace.
The Grace of God alone is sufficient to enable and empower all of what God wants us to know and do.Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,07:21) Hi GM,
Grace=charis.
what is GIVEN
We have nothing useful to offer God.
We too must be emptied of our intellectal vanities and find grace.
The Grace of God alone is sufficient to enable and empower all of what God wants us to know and do.
How about obedience out of our love for Him?Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,11:11) Hi 94,
Love is grace
OK. Every thing that we have in way or another is a gift from God, but do we have the option of choosing to obey His commandments or not? Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments.”Hi brother 942767,
We are always struck with this idea of 'free will'. If we have love towards God following His commandments is atomatic. If your child loves you he will follow your commandment natural way there is no decision making for that required. If love is the influencing factor to keep the commandments of God then I think there won't be any difficulty in this. Not only this if we have real love towards God we don't have any choice other than following our Heavenly Father's commandments.
This is the way I see it.
Blessings
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ July 06 2008,14:14) Not only this if we have real love towards God we don't have any choice other than following our Heavenly Father's commandments.
Perhaps.But I love God and yet sometimes I choose not to obey…..hard to believe, I know, but it's true.
Quote (942767 @ July 06 2008,11:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,11:11) Hi 94,
Love is grace
OK. Every thing that we have in way or another is a gift from God, but do we have the option of choosing to obey His commandments or not? Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments.”
Hi 94,
I agree.
And grace follows grace.Yes Mandy, I agree with you. The problem with us is we are not perfect in loving God, if we see Jesus he was our perfect example in loving our Father. We have our sinful nature which craves against the laws of God it is difficult to love God in perfection. Therefore out of the two natures available within us whichever dominates we obey that. This is a day-to-day struggle and we are in the journey of perfection. So don't worry about your failure in obeying God's commandments at certain times. It is true with me also.
The portion you highlighted from my post is something to do with real love with perfection.
Love to you
AdamQuote (gollamudi @ July 06 2008,14:14) Hi brother 942767,
We are always struck with this idea of 'free will'. If we have love towards God following His commandments is atomatic. If your child loves you he will follow your commandment natural way there is no decision making for that required. If love is the influencing factor to keep the commandments of God then I think there won't be any difficulty in this. Not only this if we have real love towards God we don't have any choice other than following our Heavenly Father's commandments.
This is the way I see it.
Blessings
Adam
Hi Brother Adam:It is still my choice whether or not to obey.
He said if you love me, keep my commandments. In other words show me that you love me by obeying what I have taught you. You are right in saying it should be a natural response if we sincerely love him.
In all of this there are conscious decisions that are made in my daily life as I strive to obey. There are many temptations along the way. He says resist the devil and he will flee from you (for example). This is something that I am instructed to do, but I have to choose to do it.
Quote Luk 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? God Bless
Hi brother 942767,
Thanks for your response. If you really love God where is the question of not obeying God's commandments? It will be an instinct to follow His commandments. You will understand more if you see my earlier post to Mandy.
Blessings
AdamQuote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,14:26) Quote (942767 @ July 06 2008,11:48) Quote (Nick Hassan @ July 06 2008,11:11) Hi 94,
Love is grace
OK. Every thing that we have in way or another is a gift from God, but do we have the option of choosing to obey His commandments or not? Jesus said, “If you love me, keep my commandments.”
Hi 94,
I agree.
And grace follows grace.
Hi Nick:This thread had to do whether or not the doctrine that teaches “once saved always saved was true” and it ties in with “free will”.
As I have stated, everything that we have is a gift from God in one way or another. Even our freedom to choose whether or not obey Him is a gift from Him. I believe that this is the primary reason that God allowed this temporary world so that mankind could exercise this freedom. We are called into a relationship with Him. We are not forced into a relationship with Him.
There are scriptures which indicate that the “once saved alway saved doctrine is not true”. I have given the example of Demas exercising his freedom to walk away from the Lord. Also, there was Ananias and Saphira.
Also, there is the parable of the “five foolish virgins.
And so, the scripture states that salvation is by faith so that it might be by grace, and the scripture states that our faith is not of ourselves but it is a gift from God, and I have heard you state many a time that we are not saved simply because we believe but that we have to obey. Is this a true statement or not?
942767….> the problem is you really don't know if Demas was actually converted your assuming that but he may of Just been like the seed that fell into the weeds and at first he was excited for the kingdom, but the cares of the world and new things chocked the word and he became unfruitful. He just might not been good ground, as many are. At one point Paul said they all forsook Him. I tend to think like Adam on this if God's spirit is at work in some one his new nature will cause him to naturally seek Gods way because of the love of God shed around in his Heart like it says , He is a New creation , we cannot leave God's GRACE out of this picture. It is a force that works in a person driving Him to obey God. If we see there is not such thing as (FREE WILL) only driven wills exists, it becomes clear that God has to be causing the changes in a person, not the person himself. But the fruits of the spirit will be evident in there lives. If that evidence is not there then they simply are not one of His, just like it says.
peace to you……gene
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