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Nick……what scripture said that?, a person who has the spirit of truth in Him can, not be decieved period. These are your own conjectures and are not found any where in scripture.
And again you have found a way to stop the points we were talking about by putting you two cents worth of nothing in. Some times you would be better of to just be silent and listen instead of think you have to always have to say something.DK….sorry for the rude interruption, Did you get what i was trying to say?
Hi GB,
It is a misunderstanding of scripture to think that the Spirit of God immediately transforms a man's mind and from then on everything he thinks and says is of the truth.
This forum is good evidence that such claims are nonsense.Hi Gb,
If God dominates us through the Spirit how is it that we are warned not to quench the Spirit?1 Thessalonians 5:19
Do not quench the Spirit;Nick……… who said God dominates us, he guides us by His spirit and is creating us into he sons and daughters , those are you word not mine, your misconceptions not mine. If you had listen and read what i said you would have known all along i said its by the (GRACE) of God we are saved and changed, not of (WORKS) lest any man should BOAST> you either believe that or don't that your problem. I happen to truly believe what it says, cant help it if you don't.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 18 2008,15:07) Nick……what scripture said that?, a person who has the spirit of truth in Him can, not be decieved period. These are your own conjectures and are not found any where in scripture.
And again you have found a way to stop the points we were talking about by putting you two cents worth of nothing in. Some times you would be better of to just be silent and listen instead of think you have to always have to say something.DK….sorry for the rude interruption, Did you get what i was trying to say?
Hi Gene:Did the following have the Spirit?
Quote 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; God Bless
942767………….They (ARE) Spirit. God's word (IS) Spirit. Jesus said the words i am telling you (ARE SPIRIT ) and life. God's Spirit is God's word , and if that Spirit be in you as it was in Jesus (IT) will quicken you mortal body. “in the beginning was God and the word was with God and the (WORD) was GOD.
peace to you and yours…………..gene
Quote (942767 @ July 19 2008,11:05) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 18 2008,15:07) Nick……what scripture said that?, a person who has the spirit of truth in Him can, not be decieved period. These are your own conjectures and are not found any where in scripture.
And again you have found a way to stop the points we were talking about by putting you two cents worth of nothing in. Some times you would be better of to just be silent and listen instead of think you have to always have to say something.DK….sorry for the rude interruption, Did you get what i was trying to say?
Hi Gene:Did the following have the Spirit?
Quote 1Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; God Bless
Hi Gene:My post was relative to the comment below. Did you say this or did I misunderstand?
Quote a person who has the spirit of truth in Him can, not be decieved period. God Bless
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2008,12:54) 942767………….They (ARE) Spirit. God's word (IS) Spirit. Jesus said the words i am telling you (ARE SPIRIT ) and life. God's Spirit is God's word , and if that Spirit be in you as it was in Jesus (IT) will quicken you mortal body. “in the beginning was God and the word was with God and the (WORD) was GOD. peace to you and yours…………..gene
Hi Gene:Quote 2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. God Bless
Quote (942767 @ July 19 2008,13:46) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 19 2008,12:54) 942767………….They (ARE) Spirit. God's word (IS) Spirit. Jesus said the words i am telling you (ARE SPIRIT ) and life. God's Spirit is God's word , and if that Spirit be in you as it was in Jesus (IT) will quicken you mortal body. “in the beginning was God and the word was with God and the (WORD) was GOD. peace to you and yours…………..gene
Hi Gene:Quote 2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. God Bless
942747…You have said it right, whoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, (hath not GOD),Where in this does it say He ever did Have GOD in Him. Obviously if a person does not abide in doctrine of Christ He is not of GOD, but your assuming He was at one time, that's and assumption, it does not say He ever was, Many followed Jesus at first but they all left except for the Apostles, those who left were not the good ground in the first place , But Jesus said non of whom the Father brought to Him he Lost. People who don't follow Jesus' teachings are not going to abide, they only endure for a short time and fade away. They were never elected by God in the first place or they would have continued to Follow Jesus' teachings.
942767…….If you have the spirit of truth in you, you can not be decieved, why?, because the spirit of truth is the intellect to recognize the truth from a lie. It's no (possible) to deceive the very elect. Mat 24:24 show that many false Christ (Christians) would rise and do all kinds of things and wonders and miracles and would deceive the very elect ( if it were POSSIBLE) Showing it is not possible to Fool the Elect of God. Remember those who have the Spirit (intellect) of Truth, have it, and if they do then they can't be decieved.
Fear mongers want you to believe your just hanging on a threat and a weak one at that, It all about fear to them, Not about True Faith and Trust in GOD, but fear has driven them to look to themselves looking inward instead outward to GOD the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
If you have GOD”S Spirit of TRUTH, in you, you can not be decieved. I fact those who have God's Spirit in them are held more accountable and are dealt with more severely BY the Father.
Why because they do know God's will. Because of the Spirit of Truth in them.IMO……..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 20 2008,04:42) 942767…….If you have the spirit of truth in you, you can not be decieved, why?, because the spirit of truth is the intellect to recognize the truth from a lie. It's no (possible) to deceive the very elect. Mat 24:24 show that many false Christ (Christians) would rise and do all kinds of things and wonders and miracles and would deceive the very elect ( if it were POSSIBLE) Showing it is not possible to Fool the Elect of God. Remember those who have the Spirit (intellect) of Truth, have it, and if they do then they can't be decieved. Fear mongers want you to believe your just hanging on a threat and a weak one at that, It all about fear to them, Not about True Faith and Trust in GOD, but fear has driven them to look to themselves looking inward instead outward to GOD the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
If you have GOD”S Spirit of TRUTH, in you, you can not be decieved. I fact those who have God's Spirit in them are held more accountable and are dealt with more severely BY the Father.
Why because they do know God's will. Because of the Spirit of Truth in them.IMO……..gene
Hi Gene:Not every one who starts the race finishes the race, and so, just because someone has been born again does not mean that they will continue in the doctrine of Christ and so, they will not be the elect of God. God has seen who will endure to the end. These are the elect of God.
Quote Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.The other scripture that I quoted indicated that those who were seduced were in the faith but they did not continue in the faith.
You might also take a look at the parable of sower.
God Bless
Rev. 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.”
Once the saints have been resurrected, they have nothing more to fear; every one else will have pass the final test at the end of the millennium, when Satan will be loosed.
Georg
Quote (942767 @ July 20 2008,05:16) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 20 2008,04:42) 942767…….If you have the spirit of truth in you, you can not be decieved, why?, because the spirit of truth is the intellect to recognize the truth from a lie. It's no (possible) to deceive the very elect. Mat 24:24 show that many false Christ (Christians) would rise and do all kinds of things and wonders and miracles and would deceive the very elect ( if it were POSSIBLE) Showing it is not possible to Fool the Elect of God. Remember those who have the Spirit (intellect) of Truth, have it, and if they do then they can't be decieved. Fear mongers want you to believe your just hanging on a threat and a weak one at that, It all about fear to them, Not about True Faith and Trust in GOD, but fear has driven them to look to themselves looking inward instead outward to GOD the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
If you have GOD”S Spirit of TRUTH, in you, you can not be decieved. I fact those who have God's Spirit in them are held more accountable and are dealt with more severely BY the Father.
Why because they do know God's will. Because of the Spirit of Truth in them.IMO……..gene
Hi Gene:Not every one who starts the race finishes the race, and so, just because someone has been born again does not mean that they will continue in the doctrine of Christ and so, they will not be the elect of God. God has seen who will endure to the end. These are the elect of God.
Quote Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.The other scripture that I quoted indicated that those who were seduced were in the faith but they did not continue in the faith.
You might also take a look at the parable of sower.
God Bless
942767……Where does it say they were even in the race, and the parable of the sower only proves the point, the only good ground was what produced, they were the ones to whom it had been given to Know the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. An ELECT of GOD can not be decieved because the Spirit of Truth is in Him or Her, God did not call us to see if we are going to be failures or not by trusting in ourselves to save our selves, But God has called us to show HIS AMAZING WORK (IN US), True Faith is positive with the full assurance of what God said He will do and trust in the Fact He can DO IT, BY grace are you SAVED and that NOT of YOURSELF< but it (SALVATION) is a GIFT, of GOD, you either believe it or not,its just that simple. If a person doesn't believe he is subject to doubtful imputations. These people are double minded and are like waves being tossed around because of their unbelief .IMO………gene
Quote (Irene @ July 20 2008,05:33) Rev. 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.” Once the saints have been resurrected, they have nothing more to fear; every one else will have pass the final test at the end of the millennium, when Satan will be loosed.
Georg
Scripture must be tempered by truth of Scripture.
If it were true that resurrection means we will be alright, why did Jesus say that:
1) There be some standing here who will not taste of death until they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom…
2) Matt 22:11-13
“And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.
Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
Having followed the parable of the unprofitable servant, the implication is that this is an account of what will happen to him, the unprofitable servant.
Rev. 16:15 speaks of these individuals:
“Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.”
Does this remind you of the unprofitable servant who does not have his wedding garment?The study of the end times is extremely full of details and is difficult to study, and has MANY questions.
It is possible that the information is not yet to be released.
It is not profitable to think of the little bit of information that we have “it is the truth” if there remain any unanswered questions concerning verses of Scripture that tie into the picture. We must try the teachings, seek answers in the truth, and knock on doors (ask other people) if neither of these yields our answers.
When a court does investigations, many hypotheses are formed and disposed of as new information sheds light on the judge's understanding of the matter. All of these questions must be worked through first, correct? I say, let's just enjoy the journey and eachothers' company – and pray for one another. God is working in all of us, let's not hinder His work by aligning our minds with the accuser. If we have fellowship one with another, iron will sharpen iron – if we love God, all things will work together for our good.
I cannot save myself; “God is salvation,” no matter what happens.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 20 2008,06:47) Quote (942767 @ July 20 2008,05:16) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 20 2008,04:42) 942767…….If you have the spirit of truth in you, you can not be decieved, why?, because the spirit of truth is the intellect to recognize the truth from a lie. It's no (possible) to deceive the very elect. Mat 24:24 show that many false Christ (Christians) would rise and do all kinds of things and wonders and miracles and would deceive the very elect ( if it were POSSIBLE) Showing it is not possible to Fool the Elect of God. Remember those who have the Spirit (intellect) of Truth, have it, and if they do then they can't be decieved. Fear mongers want you to believe your just hanging on a threat and a weak one at that, It all about fear to them, Not about True Faith and Trust in GOD, but fear has driven them to look to themselves looking inward instead outward to GOD the Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
If you have GOD”S Spirit of TRUTH, in you, you can not be decieved. I fact those who have God's Spirit in them are held more accountable and are dealt with more severely BY the Father.
Why because they do know God's will. Because of the Spirit of Truth in them.IMO……..gene
Hi Gene:Not every one who starts the race finishes the race, and so, just because someone has been born again does not mean that they will continue in the doctrine of Christ and so, they will not be the elect of God. God has seen who will endure to the end. These are the elect of God.
Quote Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in [his] goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.The other scripture that I quoted indicated that those who were seduced were in the faith but they did not continue in the faith.
You might also take a look at the parable of sower.
God Bless
942767……Where does it say they were even in the race, and the parable of the sower only proves the point, the only good ground was what produced, they were the ones to whom it had been given to Know the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. An ELECT of GOD can not be decieved because the Spirit of Truth is in Him or Her, God did not call us to see if we are going to be failures or not by trusting in ourselves to save our selves, But God has called us to show HIS AMAZING WORK (IN US), True Faith is positive with the full assurance of what God said He will do and trust in the Fact He can DO IT, BY grace are you SAVED and that NOT of YOURSELF< but it (SALVATION) is a GIFT, of GOD, you either believe it or not,its just that simple. If a person doesn't believe he is subject to doubtful imputations. These people are double minded and are like waves being tossed around because of their unbelief .IMO………gene
Hi Gene:Yes, I believe that we are saved by faith so that it might be by grace, but not as you teach it.
You indicate that “once saved always saved” is true, and I have shown you by the scriptures that it is not true.
As for the race, the Apostle Paul states:
Quote 1Cr 9:24 ¶ Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.
1Cr 9:25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they [do it] to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.
1Cr 9:26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:
1Cr 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring [it] into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.Quote Hbr 12:1 ¶ Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset [us], and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
Hbr 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.Quote Mat 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mar 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.
Mar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.And these scriptures are not intended to cause anyone to fear. There is no need to fear if someone is obeying the commandments of our Lord and confessing his sins when he makes a mistake.
But these scriptures are intended to dispel the false doctrine being taught which says “once saved always saved”.
Someone who believes this doctrine may say “well since I can't lose my salvation” I can live my life any way that please and still be saved. And so, by showing that this is not true, I would hope that someone doing this having misunderstood, will repent so that he will be saved.
The only time that any who have confessed Jesus as their Lord need fear is if they are practicing sin wilfully.
God Bless
Hi Gene:
Also, you say:
Quote BY grace are you SAVED and that NOT of YOURSELF< but it (SALVATION) is a GIFT, of GOD, you either believe it or not,its just that simple. I belive that you are misquoting this scripture:
Quote Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: This scripture states that our faith through which we are saved is a gift from God.
God Bless
942747…….Absolute we can live any way we want to , the question is if GOD is working in you which way will you (WANT) to live it . If God is, by GRACE (God influencing you heart) Then which way will you (NATURALLY) sow, to the spirit or to the flesh? God did not Give His Spirit on a temporary Basis, as in the old testament the Spirit was on them not (IN) them, But according to Jesus, the Spirit that shall be in you (ALWAYS). If you don't truly believe that, then how can we say, He who began a work in you will see it to completion. Doubt is the mother of failure, and her sons are the fearful and unbelieving. Faith is the mother of victory and her sons are heirs and joint heirs with Jesus.
IMO……..gene
IMO…….gene
Hi GB,
Again helpless puppets?
None can quench or grieve the Spirit?
You speak from theory as if you do not know God?Quote (Gene Balthrop @ July 20 2008,08:36) 942747…….Absolute we can live any way we want to , the question is if GOD is working in you which way will you (WANT) to live it . If God is, by GRACE (God influencing you heart) Then which way will you (NATURALLY) sow, to the spirit or to the flesh? God did not Give His Spirit on a temporary Basis, as in the old testament the Spirit was on them not (IN) them, But according to Jesus, the Spirit that shall be in you (ALWAYS). If you don't truly believe that, then how can we say, He who began a work in you will see it to completion. Doubt is the mother of failure, and her sons are the fearful and unbelieving. Faith is the mother of victory and her sons are heirs and joint heirs with Jesus. IMO……..gene
IMO…….gene
Hi Gene:He has said “I will never leave you nor forsake you”, and He is true to His promise. But man can forsake Him. He will not dwell in someone who is practicing sin wilfully.
He will see the good work he started in us to completion with our cooperation. You and I have to put into practice what he teaches otherwise we won't become what he intends for us to become. This world is where we learn to apply the Word of God to our daily lives. The world is the refining fire, and if we obey God, we will come out as pure gold having been tried in that fire.
Let me ask you a question? Who should be punished more severly someone who knows has never been saved or someone who has know the truth is begins practicing sin wilfully?
Anyway, it is not what I say but what the scripture says that matter. Read the scriptures that I have given you and form your decision.
Please give me the scripture for your following statement:
Quote But according to Jesus, the Spirit that shall be in you (ALWAYS). God Bless
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