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Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2013,15:58) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2013,20:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 25 2013,17:12) I would still honor him as the Son, Servant, Prophet, Priest, Sacrificial Lamb, Spokesman, and Anointed One OF our one and only MOST HIGH God, Jehovah. So exactly the same way I honor him now. How long he has lived wouldn't change one of those things listed above.
Let the reader make note that Mike would honor the created creature as high as one who always existed.
LU,What do you think king means! Godlike?
No Kerwin,
I don't think king is a synonym of 'godlike.'Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 02 2013,14:22) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2013,03:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2013,16:18) Yes, Mike would honor the Servant OF God Almighty the same way whether he was born in 2000 BCE, 1885 AD, or somehow “existed” from eternity inside of the God who begot him.
He would still deserve the honor of a great SERVANT of God – not the honor of the God he serves.
Mike,
Do you honor the Son as much as you honor Gabriel who serves God? If you give the Son more honor, why?
Kathyyou really like to cut the pieces smaller and smaller ,but you seem not to understand anything;
if the angel Gabriel would come and see you tell me how would you know it is him
if Jesus the son of God would come and see you how would you know it is him
before you can honor someone you have to know them
and not only talk about them ,what you do.
Jesus would have scars in His hands and feet. Gabriel would not.Quote (942767 @ Dec. 02 2013,17:41) Hi Kathi: And so, how are you going to prove that he always existed as a sentient being? If you have the scriptures that show this, please disclose them.
Are you aware that He was the eternal life, the wisdom that the Father possessed in the beginning? Do you need verses…look to Prov. 8:22 and 1 John 1-3Did you realize that Jesus identified Himself as the Alpha and Omega, thus identifying Himself with Jehovah? Rev 1
Did you realize that Jesus is Jehovah our Righteousness? Jer 23:6
Did you realize that Jehovah means self-existent?
Did you realize that Peter identifies Jesus as Jehovah of hosts from Isa 8?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 02 2013,18:04) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 01 2013,15:14) Mike,
Do you honor the Son as much as you honor Gabriel who serves God? If you give the Son more honor, why?
I give MORE honor to Jesus than to Gabriel. They are both spirit servants of God who have helped human beings on many occasions, but Jesus is higher-ranking than Gabriel, and Jesus has done much MORE for us than Gabriel.Similarly, Jehovah is higher-ranked than His servant Jesus, and is ultimately the one who SENT Jesus as a sacrificial lamb so we can be saved. That, along with many other things, means that our Father Jehovah had done more for us than His servant Jesus Christ, who has done more for us than God's servant Gabriel.
I imagine the ranks go something like this:
1. Jehovah God, Father and Creator of all.
2. His firstborn Son and servant, Jesus Christ.
3. The creatures who are in the presence of God day in and day out.
4. The archangels.
5. Other angels.
6. Prophets and Apostles.
7. The elect.
8. True disciples who follow God's laws.I'm not claiming I KNOW these things, but give this as an example so you can see that I hold Jesus VERY HIGH on the list – but not as high as his God who sent him for our salvation.
All living creatures will be giving the same praise and honor to both the Father and the Son. You will too someday.
Rev 5Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 04 2013,15:14) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 02 2013,14:22) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2013,03:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2013,16:18) Yes, Mike would honor the Servant OF God Almighty the same way whether he was born in 2000 BCE, 1885 AD, or somehow “existed” from eternity inside of the God who begot him.
He would still deserve the honor of a great SERVANT of God – not the honor of the God he serves.
Mike,
Do you honor the Son as much as you honor Gabriel who serves God? If you give the Son more honor, why?
Kathyyou really like to cut the pieces smaller and smaller ,but you seem not to understand anything;
if the angel Gabriel would come and see you tell me how would you know it is him
if Jesus the son of God would come and see you how would you know it is him
before you can honor someone you have to know them
and not only talk about them ,what you do.
Jesus would have scars in His hands and feet. Gabriel would not.
Your version is made up to own taste.(deut.17).
With extra pickle, and less onion,no chilli.
***************Kjv.is the only way:
Deuteronomy 10:17 For the LORD your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:wakeup.
Wakeup,
Deut 10:17 is an excellent verse to show the two powers of heaven/God.Deut 10:17
For Jehovah your God, he is God of gods, and Lord of lords, the great God, the mighty, and the terrible, who regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward.1 Cor 8:6
yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.Rev 17:14
They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 04 2013,10:13) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 02 2013,15:58) Quote (Lightenup @ Nov. 26 2013,20:53) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 25 2013,17:12) I would still honor him as the Son, Servant, Prophet, Priest, Sacrificial Lamb, Spokesman, and Anointed One OF our one and only MOST HIGH God, Jehovah. So exactly the same way I honor him now. How long he has lived wouldn't change one of those things listed above.
Let the reader make note that Mike would honor the created creature as high as one who always existed.
LU,What do you think king means! Godlike?
No Kerwin,
I don't think king is a synonym of 'godlike.'
LU,Jehovah appointed Jesus king of all things in heaven and on earth. God did not appoint him God.
Jesus is also Lord of all and the First and the Last and Jehovah of hosts. I don't see anywhere that He was 'appointed' as Lord of all or the First and the Last or Jehovah of hosts. All things were made through Him and for Him.
Quote (Wakeup @ Dec. 03 2013,07:03) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 03 2013,07:55) LU, Was Jesus' body preconceived?
No.
So are you speaking of preconception of the soul?
Kerwin.The Word of God is a *living* Word,WITH WISDOM.
It's a *HE*. A spirit *HE* IS NOT FLESH.
*HE* CREATED ALL THINGS.
*HE* WAS *MADE* FLESH.Isaiah 9:6 For unto us *a child is born*, unto us a son is given: and the government *shall be* upon his shoulder: and his name *shall be* called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God,
***The everlasting Father***, ***The Prince of Peace***.THE EVERLASTING FATHER WAS NOT PRECONCEIVED.
wakeup.
WakeupJesus is not God.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 05 2013,02:16) Jesus is also Lord of all and the First and the Last and Jehovah of hosts. I don't see anywhere that He was 'appointed' as Lord of all or the First and the Last or Jehovah of hosts. All things were made through Him and for Him.
LU,Jesus is the First in the Last Messiah as there is no other. He is also the Alpha and Omega Heir as their is no other.
Jesus was appointed King over heaven and earth which means he was not already King over heaven and earth.
There nowhere that Scripture states Jesus is or was Jehovah of hosts.
All thing were made through him by his death on the cross and his resurrection from the dead.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2013,22:18) Are you aware that He was the eternal life, the wisdom that the Father possessed in the beginning?
Why do you assume that “in the beginning” means “from eternity”?It doesn't mean that in Genesis 1:1, does it?
You are right though, that Jesus is a possession of his and our God, Jehovah.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2013,22:20) All living creatures will be giving the same praise and honor to both the Father and the Son. You will too someday.
Rev 5
Show me the word “same” in the verse to which you allude.Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,15:28) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 05 2013,02:16) Jesus is also Lord of all and the First and the Last and Jehovah of hosts. I don't see anywhere that He was 'appointed' as Lord of all or the First and the Last or Jehovah of hosts. All things were made through Him and for Him.
LU,Jesus is the First in the Last Messiah as there is no other. He is also the Alpha and Omega Heir as their is no other.
Jesus was appointed King over heaven and earth which means he was not already King over heaven and earth.
There nowhere that Scripture states Jesus is or was Jehovah of hosts.
All thing were made through him by his death on the cross and his resurrection from the dead.
Kerwin,
You are adding your own bias to these. Can you admit that?you said:
Quote Jesus is the First in the Last Messiah as there is no other. He is also the Alpha and Omega Heir as their is no other. You added the word 'Messiah' and the word 'Heir' which is NOT in the scripture. You are forcing your opinion and adding to scripture. If left alone as inspired you will see that Jesus is identifying Himself with Jehovah.
Quote Jesus was appointed King over heaven and earth which means he was not already King over heaven and earth. Jesus was born 'King of the Jews” and after His resurrection He became King of kings from my understanding and possibly alludes to His human nature.
Quote There nowhere that Scripture states Jesus is or was Jehovah of hosts. Peter identifies Jesus as Jehovah of hosts from Isa 8, in 1 Peter 2.
Quote All thing were made through him by his death on the cross and his resurrection from the dead. What scripture do you have for that? Here you are adding to scripture AGAIN. You must surrender your own understanding in order to be able to see more clearly, Kerwin. You are stumbling over the stone who is Jehovah of hosts/Jesus.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2013,18:06) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2013,22:18) Are you aware that He was the eternal life, the wisdom that the Father possessed in the beginning?
Why do you assume that “in the beginning” means “from eternity”?It doesn't mean that in Genesis 1:1, does it?
You are right though, that Jesus is a possession of his and our God, Jehovah.
1What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life— 2and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us—Jesus was the ETERNAL LIFE that WAS WITH THE FATHER from the beginning.
I am not assuming anything but letting the word speak for itself.
Quote You are right though, that Jesus is a possession of his and our God, Jehovah. The Wisdom of God, (the Only Begotten God) would naturally be in possession of God eternally. Our God consists of two powers, the Father and His Son.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 04 2013,18:07) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 03 2013,22:20) All living creatures will be giving the same praise and honor to both the Father and the Son. You will too someday.
Rev 5
Show me the word “same” in the verse to which you allude.
Rev 5:13
And every created thing which is in the heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and on the sea, and all things are in them, heard I saying, Unto him that sitteth on the throne, and unto the Lamb, be the blessing, and the honor, and the glory, and the dominion, for ever and ever.The 'the' shows that it is the same honor, the same glory, the same blessing, and the same dominion…for EVER.
The “the” is not in the Greek text. And I only found one English Bible that ADDS it…….. the MSG Bible.
Also notice that blessing, honor, glory and strength are attributed to both the “one who sits on the throne”, AND to the Lamb.
That distinguishes the Lamb as someone OTHER THAN “the one who sits on the throne”.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 07 2013,13:11) Jesus was the ETERNAL LIFE that WAS WITH THE FATHER from the beginning. I am not assuming anything but letting the word speak for itself.
Okay. And the earth is the planet that was created by God “in the beginning”. Does the word “beginning” mean the earth is “from eternity”? If not, then the word “beginning” doesn't mean Jesus was “from eternity” either.Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 02 2013,09:14) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 26 2013,16:18) Yes, Mike would honor the Servant OF God Almighty the same way whether he was born in 2000 BCE, 1885 AD, or somehow “existed” from eternity inside of the God who begot him.
He would still deserve the honor of a great SERVANT of God – not the honor of the God he serves.
Mike,
Do you honor the Son as much as you honor Gabriel who serves God? If you give the Son more honor, why?
The son is the first begotten of the Father, the firstborn of all creation. He was with the Father in the beginning. HE came from God, and is like God to the point that he is the image of the invisible God.Yes Mike. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. So they must be eternal if Jesus was with God in the beginning and he is eternal. Of course such reasoning is not reasoning at all.
The second century fathers considered Jesus as the first work of the Father, and Jesus was explicit about his origins. “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me.”.
We are told in scripture that he was in the form of God. It makes sense that someone who came entirely from God would be begotten of him and share his nature and characteristics. But that wouldn't make him God. It does make him the visible image of the invisible God though.
Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 08 2013,00:53) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 04 2013,15:28) Quote (Lightenup @ Dec. 05 2013,02:16) Jesus is also Lord of all and the First and the Last and Jehovah of hosts. I don't see anywhere that He was 'appointed' as Lord of all or the First and the Last or Jehovah of hosts. All things were made through Him and for Him.
LU,Jesus is the First in the Last Messiah as there is no other. He is also the Alpha and Omega Heir as their is no other.
Jesus was appointed King over heaven and earth which means he was not already King over heaven and earth.
There nowhere that Scripture states Jesus is or was Jehovah of hosts.
All thing were made through him by his death on the cross and his resurrection from the dead.
Kerwin,
You are adding your own bias to these. Can you admit that?you said:
Quote Jesus is the First in the Last Messiah as there is no other. He is also the Alpha and Omega Heir as their is no other. You added the word 'Messiah' and the word 'Heir' which is NOT in the scripture. You are forcing your opinion and adding to scripture. If left alone as inspired you will see that Jesus is identifying Himself with Jehovah.
Quote Jesus was appointed King over heaven and earth which means he was not already King over heaven and earth. Jesus was born 'King of the Jews” and after His resurrection He became King of kings from my understanding and possibly alludes to His human nature.
Quote There nowhere that Scripture states Jesus is or was Jehovah of hosts. Peter identifies Jesus as Jehovah of hosts from Isa 8, in 1 Peter 2.
Quote All thing were made through him by his death on the cross and his resurrection from the dead. What scripture do you have for that? Here you are adding to scripture AGAIN. You must surrender your own understanding in order to be able to see more clearly, Kerwin. You are stumbling over the stone who is Jehovah of hosts/Jesus.
LU,I am putting it like it is.
There is no evidence First and Last or Alpha and Omega are attempts by Jesus to identify himself with Jehovah. What they are is titles that state Jesus is the First and Last of a series just like Alpha is the first letter of the Greek alphabet and Omega is the last letter.
First and the Last when in reference to Jehovah mean he is the only God. Jesus is the only Messiah, Heir, and perhaps other titles any of which can apply as neither he or God chose to be explicit.
I can not figure out what you are talking about that involves 1 Peter 2 and Isaiah 8. Please go into more detail.
Any Scripture that speaks of the new creation is teaching you that all things are made through him by his death and resurrection. Romans 8:22 is one.
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