Emmanuel

[SimplyForgiven]

To ALL:

I been very working extra shifts at my job and unfortunally I havent been able to respond to many posts. sOooo im quite unsure about what to respond to now because most of you have moved on where I left off, but I willl see what i can do.

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 13 2011,01:22)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 06 2011,23:30) So My question still stands, what was the POINT in your opinion of why Jesus was called by that name if it is not for the purpose to state that he is “God with us”. That my Premise, that you been ignoring. Hi D, Let me answer your question by asking one of my own: If one of God's other many messiahs, say Cyrus, was foretold to be a savior and deliverer of Israel (which he was), and because of that fact, it was said he would be called “God is with us”, would you understand that to mean that Cyrus was the very Being of God Himself?  Or would you take into consideration ALL of the words of the scriptures, including the ones where it is made clear that Cyrus is someone OTHER THAN God who was sent BY God? I know that you will agree with the latter scenario in the case of Cyrus.  But why then can't you guys do the same when it comes to Jesus?   For example, this is your thinking:  Jerusalem is called “Jehovah Our Righteousness”, so that must be a poetic and figurative name meaning that Jehovah their God IS their righteousness.  But when Jesus is called by the same exact poetic name, it all of a sudden means that Jesus actually IS Jehovah.  Why?   I mean, if Moses was the one called “Emmanuel”, none of you guys would be saying it means Moses actually IS God, right? mike

Hi Mike,

Didn't anyone teach you that answering a question with another question can be rude???

And its a bit shady if you ask me, since you are one who shouts for “honest and straightforward answers”

Your Example has nothing to do with what im asking for.

Let me explain it to you.
Jesus is never called “Emmanuel” but is referenced to that.

So its either that Jesus is literally named “immanuel” or he is named that because He is literally “God with us”

Again, WHAT the point of calling Jesus “Emmanuel” if it ISNT his name?

This is where I await your opinion.

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2011,08:44)

Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 07 2011,03:40) Mike: Thanks for the query! I will attempt to answer yours so please answer mine or at least give your opinion. Where can you go that God is not there to hear you pray? Hi Tim, Consider these scriptural facts:  God did not know where Adam was after eating of the fruit.  He did not know where Abel was right away after Cain murdered him, and so He asked Cain.  God did not know where Satan had come from in Job 1, and so asked Satan where he had been.  Zechariah spoke to angels whose mission it was to go throughout the world and report back to God about the welfare of the earth.  Jesus warns us to not cause a little child to move away from God, because their angels see the face of God always.  (Notice, he doesn't say because God Himself is always watching every single child at every single moment, but implies that their ANGELS will immediately report any abuse to God.)

Mike,

Wow more fallacies…
Now God does NOT KNOW everything…

why is WJ not on this thread having a field day with you!
I know i am!

STRIKE 3 YOUR OUT!

[kerwin]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,14:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2011,08:44) Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 07 2011,03:40) Mike: Thanks for the query! I will attempt to answer yours so please answer mine or at least give your opinion. Where can you go that God is not there to hear you pray? Hi Tim, Consider these scriptural facts:  God did not know where Adam was after eating of the fruit.  He did not know where Abel was right away after Cain murdered him, and so He asked Cain.  God did not know where Satan had come from in Job 1, and so asked Satan where he had been.  Zechariah spoke to angels whose mission it was to go throughout the world and report back to God about the welfare of the earth.  Jesus warns us to not cause a little child to move away from God, because their angels see the face of God always.  (Notice, he doesn't say because God Himself is always watching every single child at every single moment, but implies that their ANGELS will immediately report any abuse to God.) Mike, Wow more fallacies… Now God does NOT KNOW everything… why is WJ not on this thread having a field day with you! I know i am! STRIKE 3 YOUR OUT!

Denison,

In the case of Cain God was most likely asking a rhetorical question. I cannot be sure because unlike God my knowledge base is limited and there are other devices used for correcting, teaching, rebuking, and training in righteousness. In addition my memory is also limited.

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2011,02:14)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 09 2011,08:44) Quote (Tim Kraft @ June 07 2011,03:40) Mike: Thanks for the query! I will attempt to answer yours so please answer mine or at least give your opinion. Where can you go that God is not there to hear you pray? Hi Tim, Consider these scriptural facts:  God did not know where Adam was after eating of the fruit.  He did not know where Abel was right away after Cain murdered him, and so He asked Cain.  God did not know where Satan had come from in Job 1, and so asked Satan where he had been.  Zechariah spoke to angels whose mission it was to go throughout the world and report back to God about the welfare of the earth.  Jesus warns us to not cause a little child to move away from God, because their angels see the face of God always.  (Notice, he doesn't say because God Himself is always watching every single child at every single moment, but implies that their ANGELS will immediately report any abuse to God.) Mike, Wow more fallacies… Now God does NOT KNOW everything… why is WJ not on this thread having a field day with you! I know i am! STRIKE 3 YOUR OUT!

SF

Jas 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone;
Jas 1:14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed.
Jas 1:15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
Jas 1:16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers.
Jas 1:17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows

God is pure and does not see deceit or corruption ,

Pierre

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,02:39)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2011,05:56) Hi Tim, I don't agree that God is everywhere, or in everything, or that everything is in Him.  God created things that are separate beings from Him.  God is in heaven, while His creations are everywhere. Btw, what in your opinion, is holding you back from transfiguring? mike Mike, That right there is another reason why this debate is literally over. STRIKE 2:  Im wondering why WJ is not having a field day with the this?

Hey Denni-son

I have been busy too!  

Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, “thou art there:” if I make my bed in hell, behold, “thou art there:”. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; “Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. Pss 139:7-10

If Gods Spirit can be everywhere then so can God or the Spirit of God would be greater than God. This is why the Spirit is God.

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,11:10)

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,02:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2011,05:56) Hi Tim, I don't agree that God is everywhere, or in everything, or that everything is in Him.  God created things that are separate beings from Him.  God is in heaven, while His creations are everywhere. Btw, what in your opinion, is holding you back from transfiguring? mike Mike, That right there is another reason why this debate is literally over. STRIKE 2:  Im wondering why WJ is not having a field day with the this? Hey Denni-son I have been busy too!   Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, “thou art there:” if I make my bed in hell, behold, “thou art there:”. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; “Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. Pss 139:7-10 If Gods Spirit can be everywhere then so can God or the Spirit of God would be greater than God. This is why the Spirit is God. WJ

WJ

could you explain that scripture you quote ?

because if you could it probably not mean what you are trying to make it say,

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ June 17 2011,06:02)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,11:10) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,02:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2011,05:56) Hi Tim, I don't agree that God is everywhere, or in everything, or that everything is in Him.  God created things that are separate beings from Him.  God is in heaven, while His creations are everywhere. Btw, what in your opinion, is holding you back from transfiguring? mike Mike, That right there is another reason why this debate is literally over. STRIKE 2:  Im wondering why WJ is not having a field day with the this? Hey Denni-son I have been busy too!   Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, “thou art there:” if I make my bed in hell, behold, “thou art there:”. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; “Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. Pss 139:7-10 If Gods Spirit can be everywhere then so can God or the Spirit of God would be greater than God. This is why the Spirit is God. WJ WJ could you explain that scripture you quote ? because if you could it probably not mean what you are trying to make it say, Pierre

Pierre,
Could you explain what you THINK it says?

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2011,19:15)

Quote (terraricca @ June 17 2011,06:02) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,11:10) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,02:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2011,05:56) Hi Tim, I don't agree that God is everywhere, or in everything, or that everything is in Him.  God created things that are separate beings from Him.  God is in heaven, while His creations are everywhere. Btw, what in your opinion, is holding you back from transfiguring? mike Mike, That right there is another reason why this debate is literally over. STRIKE 2:  Im wondering why WJ is not having a field day with the this? Hey Denni-son I have been busy too!   Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, “thou art there:” if I make my bed in hell, behold, “thou art there:”. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; “Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. Pss 139:7-10 If Gods Spirit can be everywhere then so can God or the Spirit of God would be greater than God. This is why the Spirit is God. WJ WJ could you explain that scripture you quote ? because if you could it probably not mean what you are trying to make it say, Pierre Pierre, Could you explain what you THINK it says?

SF

Yes i can ,but I may not say it yet

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,01:49)

Hi Mike, Didn't anyone teach you that answering a question with another question can be rude???

No.  Nor would I have believed them if they did.

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,01:49)

So its either that Jesus is literally named “immanuel” or he is named that because He is literally “God with us”

Or…………….it could be (and is) that God sending His messiah to atone for our own sins and save some of us from everlasting destruction showed that our God is “with us”, as in “fighting for us”, or “behind us all the way”, or “on our side”, etc.

1 Chronicles 9:20
In earlier times Phinehas son of Eleazar was in charge of the gatekeepers, and the LORD was with him.

What does THAT mean, D?  In what way do you suppose God was with Phinehas?  Does it fit my quotes above – that God was “supporting him”, or “helping him”, etc?

God's messiah was called “God is with us” because he was a flesh and blood reminder that God has not forsaken us, but continues to be “with us”, “for us”, “on our side”, etc.

So if God's other messiah, Cyrus, was foretold to be called “God is with us” because his actions proved that God's word was true, and that He DOES still love us, you wouldn't even bat an eye.  And you definitely wouldn't be claiming that Cyrus IS the God who SENT him to be a savior.  

These kind of discussions only ever happen when the person in question is Jesus.  And they only happen then because your “Jesus IS God” doctrine is so weak and comically flawed that you guys NEED to make mountains out of molehills like this in a very lame attempt to show some support to that doctrine.

D, read Isaiah 8:8, and then compare it with 8:10.  These same translators who insist that Immanuel means “God with us” in the case of Jesus, render the same Hebrew words as “God IS with us” in 8:10.  Read verse 10, and tell me if it means that God was LITERALLY right there with them, or if the meaning was metaphorical, like the examples I've shown above.

And if you decide that it IS metaphorical in Isaiah 8:10, then you've learned two things today:  One, “immanuel” can be and is faithfully translated as “God IS with us”, in many Bibles.  And two, any time God is said to be “with” anyone on earth, the meaning is most probably metaphorical, and implies that God is “supporting and helping” whoever He is said to be “with”.

peace,
mike

[terraricca]

Mike

Immanuel can be said in all those verses;;

Ge 26:28 They answered, “We saw clearly that the LORD was with you; so we said, ‘There ought to be a sworn agreement between us’—between us and you. Let us make a treaty with you
Ge 39:2 The LORD was with Joseph and he prospered, and he lived in the house of his Egyptian master.
Ge 39:3 When his master saw that the LORD was with him and that the LORD gave him success in everything he did,
Ge 39:21 the LORD was with him; he showed him kindness and granted him favor in the eyes of the prison warden.
Ge 39:23 The warden paid no attention to anything under Joseph’s care, because the LORD was with Joseph and gave him success in whatever he did.
Jos 6:27 So the LORD was with Joshua, and his fame spread throughout the land.
Jdg 1:19 The LORD was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had iron chariots.
Jdg 1:22 Now the house of Joseph attacked Bethel, and the LORD was with them.
1Sa 3:19 The LORD was with Samuel as he grew up, and he let none of his words fall to the ground.
1Sa 18:12 Saul was afraid of David, because the LORD was with David but had left Saul.
1Sa 18:14 In everything he did he had great success, because the LORD was with him.
1Sa 18:28 When Saul realized that the LORD was with David and that his daughter Michal loved David,
1Ki 1:37 As the LORD was with my lord the king, so may he be with Solomon to make his throne even greater than the throne of my lord King David!”
2Ki 18:7 And the LORD was with him; he was successful in whatever he undertook. He rebelled against the king of Assyria and did not serve him.
1Ch 9:20 In earlier times Phinehas son of Eleazar was in charge of the gatekeepers, and the LORD was with him.
2Ch 17:3 The LORD was with Jehoshaphat because in his early years he walked in the ways his father David had followed. He did not consult the Baals

Pierre

[kerwin]

Pierre,

Matthew gave the used the hidden meaning of scriptures in some cases as opposed to the obviuous meanings.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2011,22:17)

Pierre, Matthew gave the used the hidden meaning of scriptures in some cases as opposed to the obviuous meanings.

kerwin

and ?

Pierre

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (terraricca @ June 16 2011,20:02)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,11:10) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,02:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2011,05:56) Hi Tim, I don't agree that God is everywhere, or in everything, or that everything is in Him.  God created things that are separate beings from Him.  God is in heaven, while His creations are everywhere. Btw, what in your opinion, is holding you back from transfiguring? mike Mike, That right there is another reason why this debate is literally over. STRIKE 2:  Im wondering why WJ is not having a field day with the this? Hey Denni-son I have been busy too!   Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, “thou art there:” if I make my bed in hell, behold, “thou art there:”. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; “Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. Pss 139:7-10 If Gods Spirit can be everywhere then so can God or the Spirit of God would be greater than God. This is why the Spirit is God. WJ WJ could you explain that scripture you quote ? because if you could it probably not mean what you are trying to make it say, Pierre

Pierre

The scripture doesn't need any explanation for it is clear english.

But I can imagine you explaining it away.

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 18 2011,11:54)

Quote (terraricca @ June 16 2011,20:02) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ June 17 2011,11:10) Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 16 2011,02:39) Quote (mikeboll64 @ June 07 2011,05:56) Hi Tim, I don't agree that God is everywhere, or in everything, or that everything is in Him.  God created things that are separate beings from Him.  God is in heaven, while His creations are everywhere. Btw, what in your opinion, is holding you back from transfiguring? mike Mike, That right there is another reason why this debate is literally over. STRIKE 2:  Im wondering why WJ is not having a field day with the this? Hey Denni-son I have been busy too!   Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, “thou art there:” if I make my bed in hell, behold, “thou art there:”. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; “Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. Pss 139:7-10 If Gods Spirit can be everywhere then so can God or the Spirit of God would be greater than God. This is why the Spirit is God. WJ WJ could you explain that scripture you quote ? because if you could it probably not mean what you are trying to make it say, Pierre Pierre The scripture doesn't need any explanation for it is clear english. But I can imagine you explaining it away. WJ

WJ

even in my poor english ;I have understanding;

Ps 139:1 O LORD, you have searched me
and you know me.
Ps 139:2 You know when I sit and when I rise;
you perceive my thoughts from afar.
Ps 139:3 You discern my going out and my lying down;
you are familiar with all my ways.
Ps 139:4 Before a word is on my tongue
you know it completely, O LORD.

Ps 139:5 You hem me in—behind and before;
you have laid your hand upon me.
Ps 139:6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me,
too lofty for me to attain.

Ps 139:7 Where can I go from your Spirit?
Where can I flee from your presence?
Ps 139:8 If I go up to the heavens, you are there;
if I make my bed in the depths, you are there.
Ps 139:9 If I rise on the wings of the dawn,
if I settle on the far side of the sea,
Ps 139:10 even there your hand will guide me,
your right hand will hold me fast.

Ps 139:11 If I say, “Surely the darkness will hide me
and the light become night around me,”
Ps 139:12 even the darkness will not be dark to you;
the night will shine like the day,
for darkness is as light to you.

Ps 139:13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.
Ps 139:14 I praise you because I am fearfully and wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.
Ps 139:15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the earth,
Ps 139:16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

Ps 139:17 How precious to me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!
Ps 139:18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand.
When I awake,
I am still with you.

Ps 139:19 If only you would slay the wicked, O God!
Away from me, you bloodthirsty men!
Ps 139:20 They speak of you with evil intent;
your adversaries misuse your name.
Ps 139:21 Do I not hate those who hate you, O LORD,
and abhor those who rise up against you?
Ps 139:22 I have nothing but hatred for them;
I count them my enemies.

Ps 139:23 Search me, O God, and know my heart;
test me and know my anxious thoughts.
Ps 139:24 See if there is any offensive way in me,
and lead me in the way everlasting.

pease explain it to me ;

Pierre

[SimplyForgiven]

Mike,

Quote

No.  Nor would I have believed them if they did.

Well the Pharasies hated it when Jesus did it?  trust me its rude, people dont like it, not that its nessarily evil, just ANNOYING.

and in Jesus case He had his good reasons.

Quote

Or…………….it could be (and is) that God sending His messiah to atone for our own sins and save some of us from everlasting destruction showed that our God is “with us”, as in “fighting for us”, or “behind us all the way”, or “on our side”, etc.

No, because this specific scripture isnt speaking of such a thing, unlike what “Jesus” name actually means salvation.   And He IS salvation.   His orginal name gives testimony of who He IS.  He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life of all men.    He is what sustains life and all of creation.  This is scriptural and supports the reason why our Lord and Savior is named Jesus.

Quote

1 Chronicles 9:20 In earlier times Phinehas son of Eleazar was in charge of the gatekeepers, and the LORD was with him. What does THAT mean, D?  In what way do you suppose God was with Phinehas?  Does it fit my quotes above – that God was “supporting him”, or “helping him”, etc?

Mike, come on seriously??? is this your attempt to belittle the purpose of why Jesus your Lord and Savior is called “Immaunel”?
1.You very well know that Phinehas can't be compared to Christ for the reason i stated above.
2. Phinehas wasn't named Immanuel from prophecy
3. The Name wasnt a statement but a declaration of the state and purpose of Christ.

Quote

God's messiah was called “God is with us” because he was a flesh and blood reminder that God has not forsaken us, but continues to be “with us”, “for us”, “on our side”, etc.

……..Thats not what it says.  But sure if you want to add to what its says go ahead believe what you want.

Quote

So if God's other messiah, Cyrus, was foretold to be called “God is with us” because his actions proved that God's word was true, and that He DOES still love us, you wouldn't even bat an eye.  And you definitely wouldn't be claiming that Cyrus IS the God who SENT him to be a savior.

andddd What does Cyrus have to do with this convo?

Why do you keep on trying to avoid the crux of the matter that Jesus is called “immanuel” yet you continue to make an excuse or a weak attempt to state (like it proves anything???) that if someone else is called “immanuel” than I wouldn't affirm it.
Your implying that other “annoited ones” are comparable to Christ when they are NOT and also note that are not “perfect” “sinless” or the “image of invisible God”.  You want to belittle Jesus and claim “He is just another annoited one, sent from God.” and your trying to argue if Cyrus and other annoited ones couldnt be called “Immanuel” literally than Christ couldn't be taken literally as well, but THATS NOT THE CASE HERE nor a contention because Jesus is uncomparable.

This is a weak attempt.  Your trying to work your way around it, and i wont let you.  
Now stop trying to change the focus of the matter and deal with what you have in front of you.

Quote

These kind of discussions only ever happen when the person in question is Jesus.  And they only happen then because your “Jesus IS God” doctrine is so weak and comically flawed that you guys NEED to make mountains out of molehills like this in a very lame attempt to show some support to that doctrine.

Whats Sad is that you cant put your own words into action because eveything you wrote before is a “weak and comically flawed”  LAME attempt to try to pretend as if a Mountain isnt there when its right in front of you, just to negate a doctrine that you can't refute because you NEED to belittle the the simplicity of it all or else your left with the naked truth.

Quote

D, read Isaiah 8:8, and then compare it with 8:10.  These same translators who insist that Immanuel means “God with us” in the case of Jesus, render the same Hebrew words as “God IS with us” in 8:10.  Read verse 10, and tell me if it means that God was LITERALLY right there with them, or if the meaning was metaphorical, like the examples I've shown above.

ok so “IS” so what? Its stating the same Claim.  Whether the word “is” is there or not what does it matter?
However, your example are meaningless, bascially because the Gospel and the Prophecies claim that Christ IS “Immanuel” Who is God (is) with us.

Quote

And two, any time God is said to be “with” anyone on earth, the meaning is most probably metaphorical, and implies that God is “supporting and helping” whoever He is said to be “with”.

And thats a load of crap.  You just beliittled Revelations and so many scriptures that speak about God being amoung us.
You see thats the problem you have, you belittle the literal into a metaphoric state and you take the metaphors for the literal.

Isaiah 5:20
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Lets Reverse: IF You agree that Jesus is “Emmanuel” as prophecied. Than why is He called “Emmunuel” if the reference is NOT his actual name?

Adios,

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (terraricca @ June 17 2011,23:36)

WJ even in my poor english ;I have understanding; Ps 139 pease explain it to me ; Pierre

Pierre,

Let Me but in and just Give you what you want.

The Chapter implies that God knows everything, and that God is everywhere and there isn't a way to ever flee from him.

It proves his Omniscience, and his Omniprensents.

Understood? Thank you.

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ June 17 2011,10:46)

Quote (kerwin @ June 17 2011,22:17) Pierre, Matthew gave the used the hidden meaning of scriptures in some cases as opposed to the obviuous meanings. kerwin and ? Pierre

Pierre,

Here is one scripture in context that Matthew cites.  You will see that the obvious meaning it that the child being born is a sign that the fall of the kingdoms of Samaria and Ephraim.

Quote

Isaiah 7(Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 8For the head of Aram [is] Damascus, And the head of Damascus [is] Rezin, And within sixty and five years Is Ephraim broken from [being] a people. 9And the head of Ephraim [is] Samaria, And the head of Samaria [is] the son of Remaliah. If ye do not give credence, Surely ye are not stedfast.' 10And Jehovah addeth to speak unto Ahaz, saying: 11`Ask for thee a sign from Jehovah thy God, Make deep the request, or make [it] high upwards.' 12And Ahaz saith, `I do not ask nor try Jehovah.' 13And he saith, `Hear, I pray you, O house of David, Is it a little thing for you to weary men, That ye weary also my God? 14Therefore the Lord Himself giveth to you a sign, Lo, the Virgin is conceiving, And is bringing forth a son, And hath called his name Immanuel, 15Butter and honey he doth eat, When he knoweth to refuse evil, and to fix on good. 16For before the youth doth know To refuse evil, and to fix on good, Forsaken is the land thou art vexed with, because of her two kings.

The prophecy that includes Isaiah 7:14 is speaking of the a child being born who is used as an example of when the Kingdoms of Damascus and Samaria fall.   It also has a hidden meaning which is what Matthew uses.

Another place he does that is when He cites Hosea 11:1-5 which is a prophecy of calling the nation of Israel out of Egypt.  The hidden meaning is that God calls Jesus out of Egypt.

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Hosea 11(Young's Literal Translation (YLT)) 1Because Israel [is] a youth, and I love him, Out of Egypt I have called for My Son. 2They have called to them rightly, They have gone from before them, To lords they do sacrifice, And to graven images they make perfume. 3And I have caused Ephraim to go on foot, Taking them by their arms, And they have not known that I strengthened them. 4With cords of man I do draw them, With thick cords of love, And I am to them as a raiser up of a yoke on their jaws, And I incline unto him — I feed [him]. 5He turneth not back unto the land of Egypt, And Asshur — he [is] his king, For they have refused to return.

[terraricca]

Kerwin

Quote

Isa 7:13 Then Isaiah said, “Hear now, you house of David! Is it not enough to try the patience of men? Will you try the patience of my God also? Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel. Isa 7:15 He will eat curds and honey when he knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right. Isa 7:16 But before the boy knows enough to reject the wrong and choose the right, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste. Isa 7:17 The LORD will bring on you and on your people and on the house of your father a time unlike any since Ephraim broke away from Judah

this is the prophecy that Isaiah recieved from God ,and like many prophecies they are hidden to many but with Christ coming it became more understandable because of his teachings and the written words of the apostles,

you also can see that what Isaiah says is a stand alone prophecy,it is not especially addressed to the king even though he may have thought so at the time,but it would have not made sense to him,

but it did to Christ disciples.

and so it is with Gods who foretold all things before they happen

Pierre

[terraricca]

Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 18 2011,23:50)

Quote (terraricca @ June 17 2011,23:36) WJ even in my poor english ;I have understanding; Ps 139 pease explain it to me ; Pierre Pierre, Let Me but in and just Give you what you want. The Chapter implies that God knows everything, and that God is everywhere and there isn't a way to ever flee from him. It proves his Omniscience, and his Omniprensents. Understood? Thank you.

SF

thank you for your answer,but are you sure of that answer to be true?

Pierre

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