Elohim is plural

Participant

Quote (Jodi Lee @ Aug. 13 2009,08:12)

To all,

We need to remember that the English word god as well as the Greek word theos are not sacred names referring to YHWH, they are TITLES that DEFINE individuals.

YHWH is not three persons He is one person, and He is the person who promised the prophets and the people that He would raise up an eternal human king.

Thanks for your posts Jodi:

I believe that your posts have pretty well summed up the truth so that anyone can understand that there Only One God and that the trinity doctrine is a misunderstanding of scripture.

Love in Christ,
Marty

August 12, 2009 at 10:29 pm#140796

Participant

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 12 2009,18:43)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2009,15:52)

Hi thethinker:

When will you be able to see that by the works of obedience that Jesus was doing in obedience to God his and our Father, we are seeing the true God manifest through the life that he lived and died and does live. God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and God is love (1 John 4:8).

That is why Jesus stated “he who has seen me has seen the Father”. It really isn't that difficult to understand. God made man in His own image. Jesus is the Last Adam.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Marty,
John 1:1-3 says that the Word was in the beginning with God and the Word WAS GOD. It says that all things were created by Him. Hebrews 1:8-10 says that the Father calls the Son “God” and attributes the whole creation to Him. He was God BEFORE He did His works of obedience which you say manifested God to us.

thinker

Hi thethinker:

Once again, this is not difficult to understand. In the begining God had an idea or a plan and that was make man in his own image. He created everything that he created with the last Adam in mind. That means that he created all things by him and for him. Jesus is his heir and we are joint heirs with him.

The new heaven and the new earth will be inherited by God's Childen. Isn't our God wonderful.

Now, if we will just start teaching His Word in truth so that we will not be divided by these man made doctrines so that people will see how wonderful He really is and want to serve Him, Jesus prayer and my prayer will have been answered:

Quote

Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Love in Christ,
Marty

August 12, 2009 at 11:21 pm#140799

Participant

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2009,10:29)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 12 2009,18:43)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2009,15:52)

Hi thethinker:

That is why Jesus stated “he who has seen me has seen the Father”. It really isn't that difficult to understand. God made man in His own image. Jesus is the Last Adam.

Love in Christ,
Marty

thinker

Hi thethinker:

The new heaven and the new earth will be inherited by God's Childen. Isn't our God wonderful.

Quote

Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hello Marty I believe that is wishful thinking. It would be

wonderful if all would understand the same, however I don't

see that is going to happen. I have prayed many times for

our Son who is in a Baptist Church and believes in the

trinity doctrine. I have talked and talked about it, with no

results. He believes we have gone of the deep end.

We just have to wait. The Bible talks about those who have

doctrine of the whore and the daughter Churches. We just

can't do the work of God. He is the one who calls someone

out of that Church. So I am forever thankful to God that He

did call us. It is something, when that happened, we did call

our Parish Priest and told Him of what we had learned and He

said to Georg that God is calling us. I found that very strange

to say the least. That is now 25 years ago.

Praise God our Savior and our Heavenly Father forever.

Peace and Love Irene

August 12, 2009 at 11:42 pm#140801

Participant

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,11:21)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 13 2009,10:29)

Quote (thethinker @ Aug. 12 2009,18:43)

Quote (942767 @ Aug. 12 2009,15:52)

Hi thethinker:

That is why Jesus stated “he who has seen me has seen the Father”. It really isn't that difficult to understand. God made man in His own image. Jesus is the Last Adam.

Love in Christ,
Marty

thinker

Hi thethinker:

The new heaven and the new earth will be inherited by God's Childen. Isn't our God wonderful.

Quote

Jhn 17:20 ¶ Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Jhn 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Jhn 17:22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

Jhn 17:23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Love in Christ,
Marty

Hello Marty I believe that is wishful thinking. It would be

wonderful if all would understand the same, however I don't

see that is going to happen. I have prayed many times for

our Son who is in a Baptist Church and believes in the

trinity doctrine. I have talked and talked about it, with no

results. He believes we have gone of the deep end.

We just have to wait. The Bible talks about those who have

doctrine of the whore and the daughter Churches. We just

can't do the work of God. He is the one who calls someone

out of that Church. So I am forever thankful to God that He

did call us. It is something, when that happened, we did call

our Parish Priest and told Him of what we had learned and He

said to Georg that God is calling us. I found that very strange

to say the least. That is now 25 years ago.

Praise God our Savior and our Heavenly Father forever.

Peace and Love Irene

Hi Mrs:

I don't believe that it is wishful thinking. Jesus prayed this prayer and I am also praying that the church would come into unity that the world would see that there is One True God and the world might believe that Jesus is the Son of the Living God and that he was sent by God to reconcile the world to Himself through him.

Jesus stated to the Apostle Peter:

“Upon this Rock I will build my church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it.”

Jesus is coming for a church without spot or wrinkle.

And I believe that with God all things are possible to them that believe otherwise I would not go to Him in prayer asking him for this. Apparently, Jesus also thought that this was possible or else why would he pray asking God to do this?

Love in Christ,
Marty

August 13, 2009 at 1:57 am#140804

Participant

Marty! Ask thinker if He is willing to give up His believe of the trinity doctrine? I don't think so, not yet. For that to happen Christ will have to come first. Maybe we will not have to wait to long.
Peace and Love Irene

August 13, 2009 at 6:09 am#140815

Participant

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,13:57)

Let me ask a question to Anti-Trinitarians.

If Jesus was a man that was exalted to be a God among creation.

Is a God before the True God?

And what was the significance of his virgin birth, and why Mary was told to call him Immanuel > God with us?

August 13, 2009 at 6:35 am#140821

Participant

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 13 2009,18:09)

Quote (Cindy @ Aug. 13 2009,13:57)

Let me ask a question to Anti-Trinitarians.

If Jesus was a man that was exalted to be a God among creation.

Is a God before the True God?

And what was the significance of his virgin birth, and why Mary was told to call him Immanuel > God with us?

I don't know what you are trying to say here? The Word who became flesh and dwelt among us, is called Jesus. In John 1:1 He is called God. I believe that God is a title and Both have other names. The Father is called Jehovah and Jesus is called YEshua in the Old Testament. Also the Father is greater then the Son, by Jesus own words.
John 14:28 ….for My Father is greater than I.”
Ephesians 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Also the reason the Word brcome a Human Being is to save Mankind ftom eternal death. But I think you knew that!!!!
Peace and Love Irene

August 13, 2009 at 6:47 am#140825

Participant

Ok so given that God is a Title…

The father is called YHWH…his real name is not Jehovah…

Jehovah was a western Idea of combining the Constants of YHWH with ADONAI… and since YHWH in english is pronounced with a J..kinda like JHWH…

English translators came up with Jehova as a Pronunciation of YHWH…but no one knows the real pronunciation. In hebrew it was considered a sin to utter The Father's name.

So anyway…..

If the Father is YHWH, but the Father is Identified as God.
Then when Jesus i identified as The ONLY Begotten SON of God.

Wouldn't you accept is claims are… he is

The Only Begotten Son of YHWH?

If my last name was Smith and that was my title.
If I have a child, he is a Smith just like me. He is NOT me
but he has my flesh and blood and carries my name.

So if YHWH has a child, he is a little YHWH or little God.
so Jesus isn't God the Father no, but he is God the Son.

Or YHWH The Son. And that's where they Jews got Yeshua from.

Y e H shu W a H

So regardless how you try to paint it, Jesus is a God one way or another…the question is…is he his own God, is he a made God…or is he the personification of a Son, that was spawned from the True God.

The last one isn't Idolatry, but the other 2 are.

August 13, 2009 at 6:49 am#140826

Participant

Jehovah was a western Idea of combining the Constants of YHWH with the Vowels of ADONAI… and since YHWH in english is pronounced with a J..kinda like JHWH…

Remeber Jehovah was never a NAME, it was and still is a Pronunciation.

Kind of like he pronunciation of the word: Bury

would be

Baree

August 13, 2009 at 7:25 am#140829

Participant

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 13 2009,18:47)

Ok so given that God is a Title…

The father is called YHWH…his real name is not Jehovah…

Jehovah was a western Idea of combining the Constants of YHWH with ADONAI… and since YHWH in english is pronounced with a J..kinda like JHWH…

English translators came up with Jehova as a Pronunciation of YHWH…but no one knows the real pronunciation. In hebrew it was considered a sin to utter The Father's name.

So anyway…..

If the Father is YHWH, but the Father is Identified as God.
Then when Jesus i identified as The ONLY Begotten SON of God.

Wouldn't you accept is claims are… he is

The Only Begotten Son of YHWH?

If my last name was Smith and that was my title.
If I have a child, he is a Smith just like me. He is NOT me
but he has my flesh and blood and carries my name.

So if YHWH has a child, he is a little YHWH or little God.
so Jesus isn't God the Father no, but he is God the Son.

Or YHWH The Son. And that's where they Jews got Yeshua from.

Y e H shu W a H

The last one isn't Idolatry, but the other 2 are.

I already said that the Father is greater then the Son. He is the Son of God and is not the Almighty God, rather He is the Mighty God. Second in line, like the saying goes.IMO
I don't use Jehovah to often, because neither was He called that in the King James version of the Bible.
The translators did not want to mispell Jehovah so they called Him God. And there is so many different ways to spell it. I can understand that. If I would have to do it, I would be careful too not to mispell it too.
Peace and Love Irene

August 13, 2009 at 2:43 pm#140840

Participant

Ok then maybe you believe as a trinitarian.

The father is indeed the Almighty God…you can call Jesus Mighty God if you like, but the emphasis is that he was mighty God before coming to earth…and was made flesh.

After his ressurection, he went back to being mighty God in Heaven.

But remember, Almighty God, and Mighty God and the Holy Spirit are ONE. They are all God…it's fine if you give the title Almighty to the Father and Mighty to the Son. But all in all

They are all one. This is my trinitarian belief…If they are not one then calling Jesus Mighty God or believing he was a Man made into a God by the father is Idolatry.

August 13, 2009 at 3:26 pm#140847

Jodi Lee

Participant

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 14 2009,02:43)

Ok then maybe you believe as a trinitarian.

The father is indeed the Almighty God…you can call Jesus Mighty God if you like, but the emphasis is that he was mighty God before coming to earth…and was made flesh.

After his ressurection, he went back to being mighty God in Heaven.

But remember, Almighty God, and Mighty God and the Holy Spirit are ONE. They are all God…it's fine if you give the title Almighty to the Father and Mighty to the Son. But all in all

They are all one. This is my trinitarian belief…If they are not one then calling Jesus Mighty God or believing he was a Man made into a God by the father is Idolatry.

Where in scripture does it say Jesus existed before as God?

Jesus, who was the infant born of Mary, asked God to glorify him with the glory he had with God in the beginning. This glory is never shown to be a glory of Jesus being God. There is NO scripture that declares such. Scripture DOES however, specifically show us that in the beginning God had glory for man through His promise of eternal life.

Jesus after his resurrection is called the root and offspring of David, he was raised flesh and bones and is the FIRST human being to receive immortality. The glory that Jesus received is clearly shown in scripture to be Jesus becoming an immortal MAN. This was the glory that Jesus had in the beginning with the Father, it was as a promise of eternal life for man of which Jesus fulfilled through the planning and work of the ONE TRUE God the Father.

1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot. 20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

August 13, 2009 at 3:30 pm#140849

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 14 2009,02:43)

Ok then maybe you believe as a trinitarian.

The father is indeed the Almighty God…you can call Jesus Mighty God if you like, but the emphasis is that he was mighty God before coming to earth…and was made flesh.

After his ressurection, he went back to being mighty God in Heaven.

But remember, Almighty God, and Mighty God and the Holy Spirit are ONE. They are all God…it's fine if you give the title Almighty to the Father and Mighty to the Son. But all in all

They are all one. This is my trinitarian belief…If they are not one then calling Jesus Mighty God or believing he was a Man made into a God by the father is Idolatry.

RM………..you have (NO) scriptures that prove any of that. Just shear speculations no proof. Even where it say God the Father and the son and the holy spirit was added to the text, by a translator. Check it out, do some research. You might be amazed at what you will find. IMO

peace and love…………………gene

August 13, 2009 at 5:12 pm#140889

Participant

Quote (Gene @ Aug. 14 2009,03:30)

Quote (RokkaMan @ Aug. 14 2009,02:43)

Ok then maybe you believe as a trinitarian.

The father is indeed the Almighty God…you can call Jesus Mighty God if you like, but the emphasis is that he was mighty God before coming to earth…and was made flesh.

After his ressurection, he went back to being mighty God in Heaven.

But remember, Almighty God, and Mighty God and the Holy Spirit are ONE. They are all God…it's fine if you give the title Almighty to the Father and Mighty to the Son. But all in all

They are all one. This is my trinitarian belief…If they are not one then calling Jesus Mighty God or believing he was a Man made into a God by the father is Idolatry.

peace and love…………………gene

I'm sorry Gene but this is where my arguement ends with you.

I am not going to debate with anyone who believes that false doctrine has been addedd to the Holy Books.

If we believe in a divine being, that divinely inspired the Bible and craeted all things…we should also believe that he has the ability to keep false doctrine out his book.

The King James version, was the only authorize translated version when A Jewish King sat on the throne.

All other books are translated with interpretation behind the original text…but the King James version is the closest direct translation.

If you believe this verse was added based on your false research or ideas that came from men, then there is no point in a logical discussion with you.

BTW all my ideas are my logical interpretations based on scripture.

I ask the question why would God do it this way, and so far my understanding allows for no part of the bible to be contradictory.

August 13, 2009 at 5:14 pm#140890

Participant

And to be honest, I am not good at pulling direct scripture off the top of my head, the best I can do for quick posts is to paraphrase common knowledge of the scripture.

If you like I can spend the time to put together a bundle of scriptures that support Jesus' divinity and rightful place in the Godhead.

The biggest Idea is that, if he was not divine before or while on earth, then his worship and ability to forgive sins would be falsified.

And how can you not think that Jesus is not divine when all creation was made through him? lol

August 13, 2009 at 10:28 pm#140926

GeneBalthrop

Participant

RM……..Have you ever thought if your being lead by the Spirit of GOD, those Scriptures that support you teachings would automatically fall in line with all the other scriptures and that GOD would bring them into you mind. ” when the comforter come (it) will remind you of all the things I have told you”. The problem with quick posting Phrases, they can easily be taken out of context, “the sum of God's word is truth”, not just a smidgen here and there. Jesus is (NOT) devine NOW or ever was There is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD , what part of those words Jesus spoke you fail to understand.? Or “YOU SHALL HAVE (NO) OTHER GODS BESIDES (ME), OR “(I) (ALONE) CREATED THE HEAVENS AND STRETCHED OUT THE EARTH BY (MYSELF). AND AGAIN (THERE IS (NO) GOD BESIDE ME, (I) KNOW NOT (ONE). These are just a few of many, many scriptures the show that there is (ONLY ONE TRUE GOD)> IMO

peace and love…………………………gene

August 13, 2009 at 11:07 pm#140928

Participant

Hi RM:

You say:

Quote

So if YHWH has a child, he is a little YHWH or little God.
so Jesus isn't God the Father no, but he is God the Son.

Nice try, but Jesus was born of a woman, and he is God's only Begotten Son, but because he is born of a woman, he is a man and not a God.

Love in Christ,
Marty

August 13, 2009 at 11:46 pm#140930

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Rm………..Dump the TRINITY Garbage and the day star will dawn in you heart brother. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

August 13, 2009 at 11:58 pm#140933