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Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:47) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,14:10) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:45) Because if “of” sometimes has to be added when translating it into Greek, then you have no argument. If “of” already exists in Hebrew, and it isn't in that Genesis Scripture, then we have an anomoly.
Hi david,Neither The Hebrew Masoretic Texts nor the Greek language have a word for “OF”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed and David,These words exist:
RuachElohim = God's Spirit (fem) Gen 1:2
YHVHElohim = God's YHVH (masc) Gen 2:4The Professor
Hi David and david,
I have pointed out to you both they are the same entity
through the use of Theomatics(Numbers relating to God)!117=יהוה האלהים = Spirit of God=117
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.
I know how 'you' (David DBF) said you discount the Greek Texts; BUT YOU MUST NOT!
There's “no indefinite article“(a) and [ is ] is italicized; NEITHER A NOR IS ARE IN THE TEXT!117=יהוה האלהים = Spirit of God=117
How much clearer could it be? (your point #2 in previous Post!)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,17:22) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,06:38) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:49) Hello David, “God is a spirit” the Bible says.
Hi david,Would you also say: “God is Holy”?
If so, then connect them! (Click Here)Man says that! There is NO indefinite article in either Hebrew or Greek!
It should read: “God is Spirit”, and because “is” is also added;
It's really “God Spirit”=117 same as 117=יהוה האלהיםYou are learning so much today, david! No “OF”, No “A” or “AN”!
Also, all italicized words (in AKJV Bible) are added words;
being absent from the original texts themselves!Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
See DBF, this is a definite example of placing a post where it doesn't belong and pushing an idea in the wrong thread.
Hi david,I beg to differ as it relates directly to points David wishes to make.
Since in many of 'your' Posts you offer 'only' distractions to others here,
it's no wonder you would view my Post as such! (James 1:24 / Psalm 18:25-27)Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:39) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,12:49) Quote You are right about “elohim” referring to gods. Notice the only time it is “singular” is when it is referring to The Supreme Being, God, and that is what this Thread is all about. That is why I put my comment in how I thought that Elohim is the NAME of this Supreme Being to distinguish Himself from all other “gods”
–DBF
David, some people use name to mean “title” but I tend to think of “name” as a personal name. “God” is not a name, just like Father, Lord, etc are not names. “Jehovah” is a name.
Are there any scriptures that specifically say that “God” is his name? There are such ones for Jehovah.
Quote Hello David, Yes I do mean a physical, material body. YHVH is seen in Genesis 3 walking, talking, killing an animal and then covering Adam and Eve, receiving tithes and sacrifices (Priestly duties) from Cain and Abel, etc. He also is a King and sits on a physical throne.
I feel I could spend vast amounts of time disagreeing with you on these things, but that is perhaps another thread. “God is a spirit” the Bible says. In some scriptures it appears as though God was actually seen, but in others it's made clear that it was a vision, or angelic representatives….
Hello David,Again, the topic is not God's name however Spirit and YHVH are the male and female essences of Elohim. So, spending time on these two essences would be appropriate.
God is Spirit (true) and God is YHVH.
To my understanding as author of this Thread I am to keep the posts on topic.
The Professor
Greetings Professor…..Is it not possible that Elohim,while being both male and female…..could also translate into Family consisting of multiples of personage…Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 04 2010,07:51) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:39) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,12:49) Quote You are right about “elohim” referring to gods. Notice the only time it is “singular” is when it is referring to The Supreme Being, God, and that is what this Thread is all about. That is why I put my comment in how I thought that Elohim is the NAME of this Supreme Being to distinguish Himself from all other “gods”
–DBF
David, some people use name to mean “title” but I tend to think of “name” as a personal name. “God” is not a name, just like Father, Lord, etc are not names. “Jehovah” is a name.
Are there any scriptures that specifically say that “God” is his name? There are such ones for Jehovah.
Quote Hello David, Yes I do mean a physical, material body. YHVH is seen in Genesis 3 walking, talking, killing an animal and then covering Adam and Eve, receiving tithes and sacrifices (Priestly duties) from Cain and Abel, etc. He also is a King and sits on a physical throne.
I feel I could spend vast amounts of time disagreeing with you on these things, but that is perhaps another thread. “God is a spirit” the Bible says. In some scriptures it appears as though God was actually seen, but in others it's made clear that it was a vision, or angelic representatives….
Hello David,Again, the topic is not God's name however Spirit and YHVH are the male and female essences of Elohim. So, spending time on these two essences would be appropriate.
God is Spirit (true) and God is YHVH.
To my understanding as author of this Thread I am to keep the posts on topic.
The Professor
Greetings Professor…..Is it not possible that Elohim,while being both male and female…..could also translate into Family consisting of multiples of personage…
Hello Theo,From the construct of the word it only shows Elohim as having male and female essences. Then for the Supreme Being (and only the Supreme Being) Elohim is singular. So as far as the “family” being within the word it is unlikely.
However, in general, God's purpose, from the beginning is to have family as you point out. Look at God's first act:
Col 1:5 Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Also, when we believe in Jesus we become “adopted” children of God….so God's Salvation appears to have the effect of joining God's family.
Also from Gen 1:27 I couldn't extrapolate “family” from God's image being “male and female”.
Shows you are thinking along God's “Big Picture”.
The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 04 2010,01:19) Quote Hello David, Thank you for your assurance that the Bible does not say this:
Gen 1:27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
I'd rather believe the Bible than have your assurances. I really believe it can mean what it says.
Regardless of how you try to define “image” you will end up with the same end result “male and female” essences belonging to God (Elohim).
Your opinions/assurances can't really be “proof” of what you want to deny….. what is written.
Your “I think” and questions about God doesn't change what is written.
The thread is about Elohim (not animals) and God's two essences.
I even restated step by step any points you'd like to rebutt…please stay on topic, ok?
Mike, would you say David's “research” is valid?
DBF, it's just that you have inserted several wrong if not questionable presuppositions into your argument. It's like you are trying to prove why the world is flat, when I don't even think it is flat. And if it's not flat, then any argument as to why it is flat would be meaningless.
Hello David,I liked how Mike goes thru a process of coming to a conclusion. There is a basis for his “thesis” along with Biblical texts, or word definitions. After he puts forth the information he says, “I think”.
If my supposition is wrong, explain which part and then we can discuss it. OK?
The Professor
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2010,04:42) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:47) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,14:10) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:45) Because if “of” sometimes has to be added when translating it into Greek, then you have no argument. If “of” already exists in Hebrew, and it isn't in that Genesis Scripture, then we have an anomoly.
Hi david,Neither The Hebrew Masoretic Texts nor the Greek language have a word for “OF”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed and David,These words exist:
RuachElohim = God's Spirit (fem) Gen 1:2
YHVHElohim = God's YHVH (masc) Gen 2:4The Professor
Hi David and david,
I have pointed out to you both they are the same entity
through the use of Theomatics(Numbers relating to God)!117=יהוה האלהים = Spirit of God=117
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.
I know how 'you' (David DBF) said you discount the Greek Texts; BUT YOU MUST NOT!
There's “no indefinite article“(a) and [ is ] is italicized; NEITHER A NOR IS ARE IN THE TEXT!117=יהוה האלהים = Spirit of God=117
How much clearer could it be? (your point #2 in previous Post!)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hello Ed,Hopefully this will be my last response to an errant conclusion coming from insignificant numbers that aren't in the Bible.
This is what is clear. Your deceptions are very “clear”, now.
First your quote in Hebrew says “YHVH the Elohim” = 117 but YOU translated it as “Spirit of God”.
YHVH = LORD
Ruach = SpiritYou translate a word that isn't even there and do so incorrectly, to come up with a magical number, showing fraud/deception on your part.
I asked weeks ago to show the scripture verse where YHVH “Ha” Elohim was taken from so I could research it. I could only find YHVH Elohim which literally translates as Elohim's YHVH or YHVH of Elohim (but you and David want to argue that the word “of” doesn't exist in Hebrew or Greek so it's best to leave it as Elohim's YHVH ). (I showed you where I looked up the word “of” and the translator came up with Hebrew letters…disproving your statement of no “of” in Hebrew but you keep saying it doesn't exist.) The Bible translators replace YHVH Elohim as “LORD God”.
Next your own Hebrew extraction should be Ruach Elohim and would be translated God's Spirit (Elohim's Spirit)….NEVER as Spirit “of” God….according to YOU!
Why do you leave YHVH as YHVH when the translators of KJV place LORD? I just did a lookup for YHVH and there is none for KJV translations. You mix and match to suit your needs.
In your signature you put JEHOVAH GOD. However, in your posts you explain how “J” and “W” are not valid letters in Hebrew. That was WHY you used YHVH instead of the standard YHWH transliteration of the tetra grammaton. You explain one thing and use another. Another deception??? Be consistent, if you can.
Also, let's look at the word YHVH: Using your explanation of YHVH being a proper name (I'll place “David”) and being consistent YHVH Elohim = David God (God now is my last name because YHVH was my first name.)
“WARNING to all others: Please do not get side-tracked from the Thread and go to the topic of YHVH.”
Again, a post with not addressing the Thread.
Ed, I would appreciate it if you could you please address someone else concerning number “proofs”, ok?
Continually doing so will show your attempt to cause discord and try to cause ill feelings.
Addres issues with concepts, not numbers…they are not “proof” of anything other than summing up letters for numbers.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 04 2010,04:15) Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 04 2010,07:51) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:39) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,12:49) Quote You are right about “elohim” referring to gods. Notice the only time it is “singular” is when it is referring to The Supreme Being, God, and that is what this Thread is all about. That is why I put my comment in how I thought that Elohim is the NAME of this Supreme Being to distinguish Himself from all other “gods”
–DBF
David, some people use name to mean “title” but I tend to think of “name” as a personal name. “God” is not a name, just like Father, Lord, etc are not names. “Jehovah” is a name.
Are there any scriptures that specifically say that “God” is his name? There are such ones for Jehovah.
Quote Hello David, Yes I do mean a physical, material body. YHVH is seen in Genesis 3 walking, talking, killing an animal and then covering Adam and Eve, receiving tithes and sacrifices (Priestly duties) from Cain and Abel, etc. He also is a King and sits on a physical throne.
I feel I could spend vast amounts of time disagreeing with you on these things, but that is perhaps another thread. “God is a spirit” the Bible says. In some scriptures it appears as though God was actually seen, but in others it's made clear that it was a vision, or angelic representatives….
Hello David,Again, the topic is not God's name however Spirit and YHVH are the male and female essences of Elohim. So, spending time on these two essences would be appropriate.
God is Spirit (true) and God is YHVH.
To my understanding as author of this Thread I am to keep the posts on topic.
The Professor
Greetings Professor…..Is it not possible that Elohim,while being both male and female…..could also translate into Family consisting of multiples of personage…
Hello Theo,From the construct of the word it only shows Elohim as having male and female essences. Then for the Supreme Being (and only the Supreme Being) Elohim is singular. So as far as the “family” being within the word it is unlikely.
However, in general, God's purpose, from the beginning is to have family as you point out. Look at God's first act:
Col 1:5 Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Also, when we believe in Jesus we become “adopted” children of God….so God's Salvation appears to have the effect of joining God's family.
Also from Gen 1:27 I couldn't extrapolate “family” from God's image being “male and female”.
Shows you are thinking along God's “Big Picture”.
The Professor
Greetings David…..So …Iam going to assume that the basis for your determination that Elohim does not refer to family but, has both male and female meaning….in addition it also can be singular in definition when it refers to the Eternal…is through the interpretation of the Hebrew text….The names for the Eternal are indeed singular…(eg. YHVH, El Gebor,IAm,The Eternal One and El Shaddai…)….The term heavenly Father has the assumption of paternity which is an intricate element of the family…where do I go wrong here ….?Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 04 2010,05:21) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2010,04:42)
Hi David and david,
I have pointed out to you both they are the same entity
through the use of Theomatics(Numbers relating to God)!117=יהוה האלהים = Spirit of God=117
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.
I know how 'you' (David DBF) said you discount the Greek Texts; BUT YOU MUST NOT!
There's “no indefinite article“(a) and [ is ] is italicized; NEITHER A NOR IS ARE IN THE TEXT!117=יהוה האלהים = Spirit of God=117
How much clearer could it be? (your point #2 in previous Post!)
Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17)
117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hello Ed,First your quote in Hebrew says “YHVH the Elohim” = 117 but YOU translated it as “Spirit of God”.
YHVH = LORD
Ruach = SpiritYou translate a word that isn't even there and do so incorrectly, to come up with a magical number, showing fraud/deception on your part.
The Professor
Hi David,You seem to be devolving a very bad habit of blaming and accusing me,
based on your lack of understanding new information I present to you.In English my friend…
“God Spirit” in English is Thematically equal to The Hebrew יהוה האלהים.
This Matches precisely what the Greek text is saying in John 4:24.
And for some strange reason you seem to discount the Greek?Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (davidbfun @ Aug. 04 2010,05:21) Hello Ed, …you and David want to argue that the word “of” doesn't exist in Hebrew or Greek…
The Professor
Hi David,When quoting someone it's best to be accurate. I said…
“Neither The Hebrew Masoretic Texts nor the Greek language have a word for “OF”!”
Modern Hebrew does in fact have a word for “OF”,
but this is not the case in The Hebrew Masoretic Texts.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (davidbfun @ Aug. 04 2010,05:21) Hello Ed, Hopefully this will be my last response to an errant conclusion coming from insignificant numbers that aren't in the Bible.
This is what is clear. Your deceptions are very “clear”, now.
The Professor
Hi David,Matt.7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and
with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Jer.23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD;
and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?Ed J (Isaiah 27:4-5)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (theodorej @ Aug. 04 2010,13:40) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 04 2010,04:15) Quote (theodorej @ Aug. 04 2010,07:51) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:39) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,12:49) Quote You are right about “elohim” referring to gods. Notice the only time it is “singular” is when it is referring to The Supreme Being, God, and that is what this Thread is all about. That is why I put my comment in how I thought that Elohim is the NAME of this Supreme Being to distinguish Himself from all other “gods”
–DBF
David, some people use name to mean “title” but I tend to think of “name” as a personal name. “God” is not a name, just like Father, Lord, etc are not names. “Jehovah” is a name.
Are there any scriptures that specifically say that “God” is his name? There are such ones for Jehovah.
Quote Hello David, Yes I do mean a physical, material body. YHVH is seen in Genesis 3 walking, talking, killing an animal and then covering Adam and Eve, receiving tithes and sacrifices (Priestly duties) from Cain and Abel, etc. He also is a King and sits on a physical throne.
I feel I could spend vast amounts of time disagreeing with you on these things, but that is perhaps another thread. “God is a spirit” the Bible says. In some scriptures it appears as though God was actually seen, but in others it's made clear that it was a vision, or angelic representatives….
Hello David,Again, the topic is not God's name however Spirit and YHVH are the male and female essences of Elohim. So, spending time on these two essences would be appropriate.
God is Spirit (true) and God is YHVH.
To my understanding as author of this Thread I am to keep the posts on topic.
The Professor
Greetings Professor…..Is it not possible that Elohim,while being both male and female…..could also translate into Family consisting of multiples of personage…
Hello Theo,From the construct of the word it only shows Elohim as having male and female essences. Then for the Supreme Being (and only the Supreme Being) Elohim is singular. So as far as the “family” being within the word it is unlikely.
However, in general, God's purpose, from the beginning is to have family as you point out. Look at God's first act:
Col 1:5 Jesus is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.
Also, when we believe in Jesus we become “adopted” children of God….so God's Salvation appears to have the effect of joining God's family.
Also from Gen 1:27 I couldn't extrapolate “family” from God's image being “male and female”.
Shows you are thinking along God's “Big Picture”.
The Professor
Greetings David…..So …Iam going to assume that the basis for your determination that Elohim does not refer to family but, has both male and female meaning….in addition it also can be singular in definition when it refers to the Eternal…is through the interpretation of the Hebrew text….The names for the Eternal are indeed singular…(eg. YHVH, El Gebor,IAm,The Eternal One and El Shaddai…)….The term heavenly Father has the assumption of paternity which is an intricate element of the family…where do I go wrong here ….?
Hi Theo,I said it was due to the Hebrew “language”, not text (Bible).
As for your references they are adjectives basically of YHVH, the male essence of Elohim. I am…….(adjective)
El (masc, noun) God, depicts YHVH and the words following El would be adjectives (masc or fem) of God.
YHVH, male essence of Elohim is our Heavenly Father.
So, no, I do not think that you are wrong. What you may be missing is the female essence of Elohim, the Holy Spirit. What is Her part in all of this, you haven't addressed? The “one” God consists of two essences, male AND female.
Your thinking is logical. Jesus was always referring to his Father. God's creation was always in the physical presence of “LORD God” YHVH (noun, masc) Elohim and God is always referred to as “He”. How could anyone in their right mind think about the “silent partner”, the female essence of Elohim.
There is even another Thread questioning whether She exists as a separate person, if you want to go there.
We have the male essence sitting on a throne in Heaven and we have dwelling inside of us the female essence of Elohim (Comforter, Counselor, Helper).
The Professor
Did he beget us, is another Thread….
Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 04 2010,16:06) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 04 2010,05:21) Hello Ed, Hopefully this will be my last response to an errant conclusion coming from insignificant numbers that aren't in the Bible.
This is what is clear. Your deceptions are very “clear”, now.
The Professor
Hi David,Matt.7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and
with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Jer.23:29 Is not my word like as a fire? saith the LORD;
and like a hammer that breaketh the rock in pieces?Ed J (Isaiah 27:4-5)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed,The LORD bless you, and keep you; The LORD make His face shine on you, And be gracious to you; The LORD lift up His countenance on you, And give you peace.'
The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,17:13) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:47) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,14:10) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:45) Because if “of” sometimes has to be added when translating it into Greek, then you have no argument. If “of” already exists in Hebrew, and it isn't in that Genesis Scripture, then we have an anomoly.
Hi david,Neither The Hebrew Masoretic Texts nor the Greek language have a word for “OF”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed and David,These words exist:
RuachElohim = God's Spirit (fem) Gen 1:2
YHVHElohim = God's YHVH (masc) Gen 2:4The Professor
Yes,those words do exist.RuachElohim = Spirit [of] God
YHVHElohim = YHVH GodIf a translator were to add the “of” as is apparently necessary when translating from Heb into English, they could add the “of” between spirit and God, and then this argument becomes meaningless.
“God's holy spirit” is often spoken of possesively anyway. At least a hundred times. That is enough proof needed to insert the “of” inbetween “spirit” and “God.” (The thing is, in English, “spirit of God” and “God's spirit” really mean the same thing essentially. Maybe that's why many Bible's translate it that way.)
The argument from DBF might be, 'well, if you can add the “of” there, why not also between “Jehovah” and “God,” as in “Jehovah of God.”
The answer is that:
1. In the Bible, “Jehovah is God.” “Jehovah is in truth God,” not part of God.
2. In the Bible, the holy spirit is used possesively, as if it were a part of God, or something he possesses.
Hi DavidBFunSo, this is one of the main building blocks that you construct your argument upon.
While often speaking of YHWH “of” God, as though YHWH were a part of God, you do not consider inserting the “of” into your central scripture:
Quote RuachElohim = God's Spirit (fem) Gen 1:2 Ruach [spirit] Elohim [God]
Spirit [of] God.Maybe my Hebrew isn't as great as yours, but could you explain to me if Ruach Elohim could be grammatically translated from Hebrew to English as “Spirit of God”?
Given the numerous times that “God's holy spirit” is used in a possessive sense, it wouldn't be bizarre to translate it that way.
“The finger OF God,” or God's “holy spirit” is something “of” him, as the Bible often shows.Quote The thread is about Elohim (not animals) and God's two essences. Yes, I know, but you are basing your whole idea on the scripture in Genesis, and wouldn't it therefore make sense to look at it in context?
While it doesn't specifically say that this is how humans differ from animals, if you look at the scripture in context, it may well imply it. Animal, animal, animal, animal, Man in God's image. Obviously, we look different from animals.
But if physical form is what it is taking about, then i would ask all those questions again that I have already asked. (You presuppose that “image” is “form” when it can mean different things.)Finally, the Bible does make clear that Jehovah is our “Father.” It never says he's our Mother. It never says the holy spirit is our mother.
It's like you're trying to find some hidden code in the words, while avoiding the more obvious.david
TO All…………..Elohim simply put means (POWER) THE PICTORIAL LANGUAGE OF THE ORIGINAL pictograph language of the the Hebrews was the drawn as a head of an OX with a STAFF next to it. The OX re[presented (POWER) and the Staff is what they leaned or trusted on for support. Just that simple. why try to make it so hard to understand , According to Jesus The Father was “THE ONLY (TRUE) GOD.
YHWH is the (ONLY) true GOD. “HEAR O ISREAL THE LORD (YHWH) OUR GOD (POWER) IS ONE GOD (POWER)”. SIMPLY PUT.
peace and love to you all……………………………gene
Quote (david @ Aug. 05 2010,01:04) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,17:13) Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 03 2010,15:47) Quote (Ed J @ Aug. 03 2010,14:10) Quote (david @ Aug. 03 2010,04:45) Because if “of” sometimes has to be added when translating it into Greek, then you have no argument. If “of” already exists in Hebrew, and it isn't in that Genesis Scripture, then we have an anomoly.
Hi david,Neither The Hebrew Masoretic Texts nor the Greek language have a word for “OF”!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Hi Ed and David,These words exist:
RuachElohim = God's Spirit (fem) Gen 1:2
YHVHElohim = God's YHVH (masc) Gen 2:4The Professor
Yes,those words do exist.RuachElohim = Spirit [of] God
YHVHElohim = YHVH GodIf a translator were to add the “of” as is apparently necessary when translating from Heb into English, they could add the “of” between spirit and God, and then this argument becomes meaningless.
“God's holy spirit” is often spoken of possesively anyway. At least a hundred times. That is enough proof needed to insert the “of” inbetween “spirit” and “God.” (The thing is, in English, “spirit of God” and “God's spirit” really mean the same thing essentially. Maybe that's why many Bible's translate it that way.)
The argument from DBF might be, 'well, if you can add the “of” there, why not also between “Jehovah” and “God,” as in “Jehovah of God.”
The answer is that:
1. In the Bible, “Jehovah is God.” “Jehovah is in truth God,” not part of God.
2. In the Bible, the holy spirit is used possesively, as if it were a part of God, or something he possesses.
Hi DavidBFunSo, this is one of the main building blocks that you construct your argument upon.
While often speaking of YHWH “of” God, as though YHWH were a part of God, you do not consider inserting the “of” into your central scripture:
Quote RuachElohim = God's Spirit (fem) Gen 1:2 Ruach [spirit] Elohim [God]
Spirit [of] God.Maybe my Hebrew isn't as great as yours, but could you explain to me if Ruach Elohim could be grammatically translated from Hebrew to English as “Spirit of God”?
Given the numerous times that “God's holy spirit” is used in a possessive sense, it wouldn't be bizarre to translate it that way.
“The finger OF God,” or God's “holy spirit” is something “of” him, as the Bible often shows.
Hello David,Ruach Elohim
“I” don't have a problem inserting the “of”.
God's Spirit = Spirit of GodDo you?
The Professor
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Aug. 05 2010,09:21) TO All…………..Elohim simply put means (POWER) THE PICTORIAL LANGUAGE OF THE ORIGINAL pictograph language of the the Hebrews was the drawn as a head of an OX with a STAFF next to it. The OX re[presented (POWER) and the Staff is what they leaned or trusted on for support. Just that simple. why try to make it so hard to understand , According to Jesus The Father was “THE ONLY (TRUE) GOD. YHWH is the (ONLY) true GOD. “HEAR O ISREAL THE LORD (YHWH) OUR GOD (POWER) IS ONE GOD (POWER)”. SIMPLY PUT.
peace and love to you all……………………………gene
Hi Gene,That is good!
The first letter is Ox (power) and the second is Staff (guide), this makes “El” and YHVH is God (El).
Now a different word; Elohim: (from the Kabbalah, Jewish Mysticism)
Aleph (')= Ox, power (Energy that seeds the universe)
L = Staff, goad (heart that understands knowledge)
h = Behold, Lo (divine revelation)
i (y) = Hand, Power (cosmic messenger)
m = Water, Womb, Mercy (sea of human subconsciousness)What could be the story behind all of them together?
Ox, Staff, Behold (root) = (noun, feminine)
Hand, Water (suffix, ending) Noun, masculine, plural)Behold the guiding power and heart that understands;
Sending mercy to the human subconsciousness?The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 05 2010,01:11) Quote The thread is about Elohim (not animals) and God's two essences. Yes, I know, but you are basing your whole idea on the scripture in Genesis, and wouldn't it therefore make sense to look at it in context?
While it doesn't specifically say that this is how humans differ from animals, if you look at the scripture in context, it may well imply it. Animal, animal, animal, animal, Man in God's image. Obviously, we look different from animals.
But if physical form is what it is taking about, then i would ask all those questions again that I have already asked. (You presuppose that “image” is “form” when it can mean different things.)Finally, the Bible does make clear that Jehovah is our “Father.” It never says he's our Mother. It never says the holy spirit is our mother.
It's like you're trying to find some hidden code in the words, while avoiding the more obvious.david
Hello David,No I didn't base my idea on Genesis. The Scriptures were in response for your wanting Scripture that concurs with the construction of the Hebrew word “Elohim”.
I based my idea on the construction of the word Elohim.
So, let's remove the Scripture as it seems to cause some confusion and we have:
Elohim has a female root and male, plural ending.
Thus the construct of the Hebrew word consists of a noun, with two essences, feminine and masculine, yet is considered singular.
El is a masculine singular noun.
David, what's to debate? I can't defend how or why they chose these words. I only know they exist and how they are defined.
This information is given to provide knowledge.
Use knowledge to gain wisdom and understanding.
The Professor
Quote (davidbfun @ Aug. 05 2010,11:40) Quote (david @ Aug. 05 2010,01:11) Quote The thread is about Elohim (not animals) and God's two essences. Yes, I know, but you are basing your whole idea on the scripture in Genesis, and wouldn't it therefore make sense to look at it in context?
While it doesn't specifically say that this is how humans differ from animals, if you look at the scripture in context, it may well imply it. Animal, animal, animal, animal, Man in God's image. Obviously, we look different from animals.
But if physical form is what it is taking about, then i would ask all those questions again that I have already asked. (You presuppose that “image” is “form” when it can mean different things.)Finally, the Bible does make clear that Jehovah is our “Father.” It never says he's our Mother. It never says the holy spirit is our mother.
It's like you're trying to find some hidden code in the words, while avoiding the more obvious.david
Hello David,No I didn't base my idea on Genesis. The Scriptures were in response for your wanting Scripture that concurs with the construction of the Hebrew word “Elohim”.
I based my idea on the construction of the word Elohim.
So, let's remove the Scripture as it seems to cause some confusion and we have:
Elohim has a female root and male, plural ending.
Thus the construct of the Hebrew word consists of a noun, with two essences, feminine and masculine, yet is considered singular.
El is a masculine singular noun.
David, what's to debate? I can't defend how or why they chose these words. I only know they exist and how they are defined.
This information is given to provide knowledge.
Use knowledge to gain wisdom and understanding.
The Professor
Hello David,How would you define the two essences within Elohim?
feminine =
??? (God, the female)
masculine =???; (God, the male)The Professor
Quote (david @ Aug. 05 2010,01:11) Quote The thread is about Elohim (not animals) and God's two essences. Yes, I know, but you are basing your whole idea on the scripture in Genesis, and wouldn't it therefore make sense to look at it in context?
While it doesn't specifically say that this is how humans differ from animals, if you look at the scripture in context, it may well imply it. Animal, animal, animal, animal, Man in God's image. Obviously, we look different from animals.
But if physical form is what it is taking about, then i would ask all those questions again that I have already asked. (You presuppose that “image” is “form” when it can mean different things.)Finally, the Bible does make clear that Jehovah is our “Father.” It never says he's our Mother. It never says the holy spirit is our mother.
It's like you're trying to find some hidden code in the words, while avoiding the more obvious.david
Hello David,Actually “image” doesn't matter to me, whether it is physical or spiritual….animal or human.
The information is clear:
God's image = male and female
We are created in God's image, male and female. Are we “animals”? My wife says that I am……
The Professor
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