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Quote (SimplyForgiven @ June 17 2010,00:51) Hi Ed J, Everything roots back to love, if there i no love in it, than its nothing. 1Cor13
God is love.
Hi SF,Prob.9:9-12 Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be yet wiser:
teach a just man, and he will increase in learning. The fear of [YHVH]
is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the [Holy Spirit] is
understanding. For by me thy days shall be multiplied, and the years
of thy life shall be increased. If thou be wise, thou shall be wise for
thyself: but if thou scornest, thou alone shalt bear it.(Dan.11:33-36)God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (JustAskin @ June 01 2010,02:51) That's SF for ya… “So Funny” SF, I agree…
David… I think it is because the answer is SO OBVIOUS everyone thought it embarrassing to respond.
David, don't lose heart – you are right!
Yes JA, you would think.And yet, Kangaroo Jack hasn't.
Quote (david @ May 31 2010,08:07) “TO ALL:
The name “YHWH” indeed translates into “kurios” ALWAYS!”—Kangaroo JackHe further states:
“let . . . David explain why the author to the Hebrews quotes Psalm 102:25-27 from the Septuagint in Hebrews 1:10. The original Hebrew says “YHWH” but the Septuagint says “Kurios” and the apostle quoted the Septuagint.” (Underline added for emphasis)This was from the 'Matthew 28:19, what does it prove' thread, page 27
I am very curious if other trinitarians agree with Kangraoo Jack on this.
I am curious if any thinking person anywhere agrees with him.Is 1:18 and WJ, this is a question to you: Are his words correct?
So, I've been away for a while.Did KJ make any answer or attempt to prove reality and common sense wrong?
Did anyone (trinitarian or not) attempt to defend him?
Does anyone other than Kangaroo Jack believe these things?
Kangaroo Jack,
how do you feel about the fact that I asked your trinitarian friends if they supported you, and they made no response?
KJ, do you still think you are right?
Quote (david @ June 18 2010,17:36) Quote (david @ May 31 2010,08:07) “TO ALL:
The name “YHWH” indeed translates into “kurios” ALWAYS!”—Kangaroo JackHe further states:
“let . . . David explain why the author to the Hebrews quotes Psalm 102:25-27 from the Septuagint in Hebrews 1:10. The original Hebrew says “YHWH” but the Septuagint says “Kurios” and the apostle quoted the Septuagint.” (Underline added for emphasis)This was from the 'Matthew 28:19, what does it prove' thread, page 27
I am very curious if other trinitarians agree with Kangraoo Jack on this.
I am curious if any thinking person anywhere agrees with him.Is 1:18 and WJ, this is a question to you: Are his words correct?
So, I've been away for a while.Did KJ make any answer or attempt to prove reality and common sense wrong?
Did anyone (trinitarian or not) attempt to defend him?
Does anyone other than Kangaroo Jack believe these things?
HI david,I dont know.
I went in to my greek bible and i translated some text and got kurion or kurios at times.idk about always, but at times it seems like it.
Maybe I should read before I post this, but I am lazy and tired but…
This post is debating that YHVH always translates to kurios?
Well what does kurios translate to in english?
Quote (RokkaMan @ June 18 2010,22:25) Maybe I should read before I post this, but I am lazy and tired but… This post is debating that YHVH always translates to kurios?
Well what does kurios translate to in english?
Hi RokkaMan,Page one, second Post FROM BOTTOM.
God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (david @ May 31 2010,08:07) “TO ALL:
The name “YHWH” indeed translates into “kurios” ALWAYS!”—Kangaroo JackHe further states:
“let . . . David explain why the author to the Hebrews quotes Psalm 102:25-27 from the Septuagint in Hebrews 1:10. The original Hebrew says “YHWH” but the Septuagint says “Kurios” and the apostle quoted the Septuagint.” (Underline added for emphasis)This was from the 'Matthew 28:19, what does it prove' thread, page 27
I am very curious if other trinitarians agree with Kangraoo Jack on this.
I am curious if any thinking person anywhere agrees with him.Is 1:18 and WJ, this is a question to you: Are his words correct?
“The translations of the books of the OT differ in style, accuracy, and substance, indicating that there was no single original translation into Greek….Manuscripts found at Qumran among the Dead Sea Scrolls and other early manuscripts and quotations from the Septuagint in ancient writings all indicate that revisions were constantly being made to the Septuagint.” (Paul J. Achtemeier, Harper's Bible Dictionary, Includes index., 1st ed., Page 925 (San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1985).Some critics of the position of this paper regarding “calling upon the name of the Lord” say that the Greek word “kurios”, “Lord” was substituted for the tetragrammaton (YHWH – ) in the 2nd century manuscripts of the Septuagint, well after the writing of 1 Corinthians. In other words, they say that the original Septuagint, though written in Greek, had the Hebrew consonants (YHWH – ) inserted for the divine name and that later this was changed from YHWH to LORD (or the Greek “kurios”). This would mean that Paul could not have been referencing the Septuagint in 1 Cor. 1:2 and the argument in this paper is invalid.
If it is true, and I am not saying that it is, that the Septuagint did not contain the word “Lord” in reference to “YHWH”, it does not invalidate the argument because the practice of substituting “YHWH” for another word “adonai” (Hebrew for Lord), was commonly done among the Jews and was well known by Paul. He could easily have provided this word substitution as a natural thing to do when writing 1 Corinthians. We see that in the existing Septuagint versions that this is exactly the case. Second, since Paul was writing to the Corinthians who spoke Greek, to write in Greek and then insert the Hebrew tetragrammaton (YHWH -) into the text would have been confusing to them since they did not read Hebrew. Remember, Corinth is about 750 miles from Israel. The Corinthians spoke Greek. Therefore, it would have been very natural for Paul to insert the Greek “kurios” (Lord) for the Hebrew name of God (YHWH – ) when quoting Old Testament references as found in the LXX. In fact, Paul did this very thing in several places:
Rom. 4:8, “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
Psalm 32:2, “How blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
Rom. 9:29, “And just as Isaiah foretold, 'Except the Lord [kurios] of Sabaoth had left to us a posterity. We would have become as Sodom, and would have resembled Gomorrah.”
Isaiah 1:9, “Unless the Lord [YHWH] of hosts Had left us a few survivors, We would be like Sodom, We would be like Gomorrah.”
Rom. 10:13, “for 'Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord [kurios] will be saved.'”
Joel 2:32, “And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord [YHWH] will be delivered,”
Rom. 11:34, “For who has known the mind of the Lord [kurios], or who became His counselor?”
Isaiah 40:13, “Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord [YHWH], Or as His counselor has informed Him?”
Rom. 15:11, “And again, 'Praise the Lord [kurios] all you Gentiles, and let all the peoples praise Him.'
Psalm 117:1, “Praise the Lord [YHWH], all nations; Laud Him, all peoples!”
1 Cor. 2:16, “For who has known the mind of the Lord [kurios], that he should instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.”
Isaiah 40:13, “Who has directed the Spirit of the Lord [YHWH], Or as His counselor has informed Him?”
1 Cor. 3:20, “The Lord [kurios] knows the reasonings of the wise, that they are useless.'
Psalm 94:11, “The Lord [YHWH] knows the thoughts of man, That they are a mere breath.”
1 Cor. 10:26, “for the earth is the Lordï's [kurios], and all it contains.”
Psalm 24:1, “The earth is the LORD's [YHWH], and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it.”
2 Cor. 10:17, “But he who boasts, let him boast in the Lord [kurios].”
Jer. 9:24, “but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the Lord [YHWH] who exercises loving kindness, justice, and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things,” declares the Lord [YHWH].”
At the very least, this substantiates that Paul's practice was to substitute “kurios” for the tetragrammaton (YHWH – ) when he quoted the Old Testament. Since we see that the phrase “call upon the name of the Lord” is used only of God in the Old Testament, it is fair to say that the phrase applies to Jesus in 1 Cor. 1:2.Finally, there are only two places in the entire Old Testament where the phrase “call upon the name of” (“Lord” is omitted) is used in reference to someone other than God.
1 Kings 18:24-26, “Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord, and the God who answers by fire, He is God.” And all the people answered and said, “That is a good idea. 25So Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, “Choose one ox for yourselves and prepare it first for you are many, and call on the name of your god, but put no fire under it.” 26Then they took the ox which was given them and they prepared it and called on the name of Baal from morning until noon saying, “O Baal, answer us.” But there was no voice and no one answered. And they leaped about the altar which they made.”
Isaiah 44:5, “This one will say, I am the Lord's'; and that one will call on the name of Jacob.”
In these two cases we see that they do not affect the issue of “call upon the name of the Lord” in any way since one is clearly about Baal and the other is about Jacob and the word “Lord” would not suit in the translation of either. If we combine this with the knowledge that Paul translated the Hebrew YHWH
() into the Greek “kurios” (Lord), we can easily see that 1 Cor. 1:2 is most probably a reference to the Old Testament phrase, “call upon the name of YHWH.”Jack,
Good post with a lot of examples.I have not studied enough to comment as to whether every use of 'kurios' means YHVH but I do see that it often seems to be.
What about this passage, I see YHVH as saying something that Jesus has said about Himself being 'the resurrection and the life' and that no one can snatch us out of His hand.
Deut 32:36“For the LORD will vindicate His people,
And will have compassion on His servants,
When He sees that their strength is gone,
And there is none remaining, bond or free.37“And He will say, ‘Where are their gods,
The rock in which they sought refuge?38‘Who ate the fat of their sacrifices,
And drank the wine of their drink offering?
Let them rise up and help you,
Let them be your hiding place!39‘See now that I, I am He,
And there is no god besides Me;
It is I who put to death and give life.
I have wounded and it is I who heal,
And there is no one who can deliver from My hand.Also, this verse tells us that there is no god besides YHVH so those who think that Jesus is just a god with The God in John 1:1 need to adjust their theology. Jesus is one with the God in John 1:1 as YHVH.
Kathi
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