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Hi KW,
You say
“So you believe Jesus has half of God's genotype and half of Mary's thus making him a demi-God? “Only those who go by pagan standards would make such claims.
Scripture says he is a man and we should believe it.To ALL………God who (IS) Life can not reproduce Himself, He Shares Himself , He gives us of (HIS) Spirit, and adopts us as Sons and Daughters of his. There is only (ONE) true GOD, He puts Himself into His creation, when that happens we begin to (IMAGE) Him. Jesus was the exact (IMAGE) of GOD because He had the fullness of the Spirit (IN) Him. But a IMAGE is a IMAGE and Never the Same as the Person Himself , but a reflection of HIM. Jesus reflect GOD the FATHER to Us, via the Father in him.
John 14:8-10…..> Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sifficeth us. Jesus said unto him, Have I been so long a time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that has seen me has seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, show us the Father? Believest you not that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak (not) of myself: but the Father that (DWELLETH) (IN) me, he does the works.
Now ask yourself, How does the FATHER do the WORKS in Jesus is it through a Genetic transfered material gene, NO it is through His Spirit (intellect) Given to Jesus in His mind which Jesus expressed to us by his WORDS. God is SPIRIT (INTELLECT) with POWER and WORKS in and through HIS CREATION. That GOD may be (ALL) and in (ALL). IMO
peace and love to you all………………………gene
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Only those who go by pagan standards would make such claims.
But you sound like you are making that claim since the actual son of a human does have half their genotype and even in other living creatures at least part of the genotype is carried on to the offspring.
I personally believe Jesus is the Son of God’s Spirit and not His “flesh” and it is the Spirit of God the bestows that Sonship on him.
Nick Hassan wrote:
Quote Scripture says he is a man and we should believe it.
I have no disagreement with that statement but you seem to believe otherwise in many cases and that confusion seems to stem from your belief in his preexisting his conception.
Just a quick comment here for those who are viewing this thread…..the “Conception” thread also covers many of the issues raised here. Check it out.
Love to all,
MandyLightenup said:
Quote Thinker,
All things are possible with GOD except He cannot lie. There is no such teaching in the entire Bible that says Jesus's “sonship” is just a title. There is no such teaching in the entire Bible that says GOD cannot reproduce. If you disagree, what is your proof?Hi Kathi,
The Bible says that the expression “son” in reference to Jesus is a title. It clearly says that Jesus INHERITED the name “Son”,Quote …as He by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten you”? The expression “only begotten Son” has no reference at all to Jesus' supposed origin. He inherited the name “son” just as Isaac inherited the name “only begotten son.” Isaac's brother Ishmael was the firstborn (or only begotten) and he enjoyed all the rights and privileges of the firstborn. He then was cast out of the covenant. After Ishmael was cast out Isaac inherited the name “only begotten son” (firstborn). It had nothing to do with Isaac's origin. Isaac pre-existed the title that was given him. Isaac's inheritance of the name “only begotten” or “firstborn” was a TYPE of Christ's inheritance.
Hebrews explicitly says that Jesus obtained the name “Son” through inheritance (1:3-5).
thinker
Quote (thethinker @ April 23 2009,14:37) Lightenup said: Quote Thinker,
All things are possible with GOD except He cannot lie. There is no such teaching in the entire Bible that says Jesus's “sonship” is just a title. There is no such teaching in the entire Bible that says GOD cannot reproduce. If you disagree, what is your proof?Hi Kathi,
The Bible says that the expression “son” in reference to Jesus is a title. It clearly says that Jesus INHERITED the name “Son”,Quote …as He by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. For to which of the angels did He ever say: “You are My Son, today I have begotten you”? The expression “only begotten Son” has no reference at all to Jesus' supposed origin. He inherited the name “son” just as Isaac inherited the name “only begotten son.” Isaac's brother Ishmael was the firstborn (or only begotten) and he enjoyed all the rights and privileges of the firstborn. He then was cast out of the covenant. After Ishmael was cast out Isaac inherited the name “only begotten son” (firstborn). It had nothing to do with Isaac's origin. Isaac pre-existed the title that was given him. Isaac's inheritance of the name “only begotten” or “firstborn” was a TYPE of Christ's inheritance.
Hebrews explicitly says that Jesus obtained the name “Son” through inheritance (1:3-5).
thinker
Thinker,
Look here,
Job 38:4-7
Tell Me, if you have understanding,
5 Who set its measurements? Since you know.
Or who stretched the line on it?
6 “On what were its bases sunk?
Or who laid its cornerstone,
7 When the morning stars sang together
And all the
sons of God shouted for joy?
NASUDo you think that “sons” in the above verse refers to the angels?
Hebrews says:
Hebrews 1:44 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. 5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Did God ever say the angels were begotten? Jesus inherited the name “Son” by being begotten of GOD, not created like the angels who are also called sons, and not by adoption like we are who are called sons.
Reread the context of Hebrews 1:4. It says “begotten” many time regarding the Son throughout the NT. Getting the name “son” because one was begotten is the dearest and truest way to inherit the name.BTW, I inherited the name “daughter” because I was begotten by my parents.
This is not hard Thinker.
GOD begat a son in a very true sense, before time began.Kathi
LU……..Lets not leave out (Being MADE) so much better, question is When was He (MADE) Better and When did He recieve a better inheritance?. Was it before His earthly berth or after His earthly death. I contend it was after his earthly death is when He recieved His inheritance, Just as we will. We a heirs and (JOINT HEIRS) with Christ, right?
peace and love to you and yours…………………………gene
Gene,
He was “made” however a true offspring of GOD would be and it happened before He laid the foundation of the earth. He inherits more than a name. I agree with you in that He receives the inheritance that we are joint heirs with after His ascension to the Father.Take care Gene,
KathiQuote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2009,02:02) Hi TT,
So now monogenes means FIRSTBORN SON?Why does scripture state Isaac was Abraham's only child, Hebrews 11:17, despite the fact he had others?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2009,05:42) Hi KW,
Monogenes does not mean ONLY CHILD
So my source is mistaken.What do you believe it means?
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2009,07:02) Hi TT,
So now monogenes means FIRSTBORN SON?
Nick,
Just read Hebrews 1. It says that Christ inherited the name “begotten Son” and then He is called “firstborn.”thinker
Hi TT,
So you think the two words must be directly linked.
Son = NameNo son means SON
Hebrews 1
1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Quote (942767 @ April 23 2009,09:00) Quote (thethinker @ April 22 2009,14:08) 942767 said: Quote God knew that a precise moment in time that he would conceive a Son and send him into the world to be the saviour of mankind. Marty,
God did not “conceive” a son. Women conceive, men “beget” and God does neither (literally speaking).thinker
Hi thethinker:The following is what I intended by my comment:
Quote Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
Christ declares that He is both the ROOT and offspring of David.Quote I am the ROOT and offspring of David…. (Rev. 22:16) The “root” precedes the plant. And the offspring is the fruit of the plant. Do you want the WHOLE truth? Or are you satisfied with living with partial truth?
thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ April 24 2009,07:02) Hi TT,
So now monogenes means FIRSTBORN SON?
Hi NHMonogenes means “Unique One” or “Only One”.
The “monogenes” Son is the “unique Son” or “Only Son”.
The NET explains it here…
Although this word is often translated “only begotten,” such a translation is misleading, since in English it appears to express a metaphysical relationship. The word in Greek was used of an only child (a son [Luke 7:12, 9:38] or a daughter [Luke 8:42]). It was also used of something unique (only one of its kind) such as the mythological Phoenix (1 Clement 25:2). From here it passes easily to a description of Isaac (Heb 11:17 and Josephus, Ant. 1.13.1 [1.222]) who was not Abraham’s only son, but was one-of-a-kind because he was the child of the promise. Thus the word means “one-of-a-kind” and is reserved for Jesus in the Johannine literature of the NT. While all Christians are children of God (τέκνα θεοῦ, tekna qeou), Jesus is God’s Son in a unique, one-of-a-kind sense. The word is used in this way in all its uses in the Gospel of John (1:14, 1:18, 3:16, and 3:18).
WJ
Hi WJ,
I think that is part of it but GENES Has to be taken into account as unique does not encompass thatQuote (thethinker @ April 24 2009,11:35) Quote (942767 @ April 23 2009,09:00) Quote (thethinker @ April 22 2009,14:08) 942767 said: Quote God knew that a precise moment in time that he would conceive a Son and send him into the world to be the saviour of mankind. Marty,
God did not “conceive” a son. Women conceive, men “beget” and God does neither (literally speaking).thinker
Hi thethinker:The following is what I intended by my comment:
Quote Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Love in Christ,
Marty
Marty,
Christ declares that He is both the ROOT and offspring of David.Quote I am the ROOT and offspring of David…. (Rev. 22:16) The “root” precedes the plant. And the offspring is the fruit of the plant. Do you want the WHOLE truth? Or are you satisfied with living with partial truth?
thinker
Hi thethinker:He is the “offspring of David”:
Quote Rom 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh He is the Root of David:
Quote Psa 110:1 [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Quote Act 2:25 For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved: Act 2:26 Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men [and] brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
The new plant:
Quote 1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit
Love in Christ,
Marty
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