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Quote (thethinker @ May 02 2009,09:28) Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 02 2009,08:27) Hi TT,
Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.No man can produce good without the empowering of God.
Do you mean to include Jesus when you say “we are all as an unclean thing”?thinker
Hi TT,
Was he a man?
Was he born of woman?Jb25
4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
He was of earth as we are and only God can make men clean.
Quote (thethinker @ May 02 2009,03:08) Kerwin said: Quote I got the idea because the Spirit is also called the Spirit of Sonship. Where does the Bible say that the Spirit is called the Spirit of Sonship especially in reference to Jesus?
thinker
Galatians 4:6 reads:Quote Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”
Notice it is the same Spirit that God sends into those that believe that Jesus is the Anointed one that He sent into Jesus himself.
Here are other related scriptures.
Romans 8:15(NIV) reads:
Quote For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, “Abba, Father.”
Mark 14:36(NIV) reads:
Quote “Abba, Father,” he said, “everything is possible for you. Take this cup from me. Yet not what I will, but what you will.”
Isaiah 42:1(NIV) reads:
Quote “Here is my servant, whom I uphold, my chosen one in whom I delight; I will put my Spirit on him and he will bring justice to the nations.
Quote (thethinker @ May 02 2009,03:13) Nick said: Quote His own acts of righteousness?
Filthy rags?God announced that Jesus was His son before he did anything in his given divine powers.
God said that Jesus was His Son “in whom I am well pleased.” If God was not “well pleased” with Jesus would he have called him His Son?
thinker
Hebrews 11:6(NIV) reads:Quote And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
thethinker asked Nick:
Quote Do you mean to include Jesus when you say “we are all as an unclean thing”? Nick replied:
Quote Was he a man?
Was he born of woman?Jb25
4How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman?5Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not; yea, the stars are not pure in his sight.
6How much less man, that is a worm? and the son of man, which is a worm?
He was of earth as we are and only God can make men clean.
You are a full blown heretic Nick. The Scripture says this:
Quote That holy thing which is born of you shall be called the Son of God (Luke 1:25) And he was NOT from the earth
Quote And he said unto them, “You are from beneath; I am from above” (John 8:23)
YOU'RE DAMNED NICK!.
crying thinker
Quote (gollamudi @ May 01 2009,23:10) Hi brother Marty,
Thanks for your concern for me and my family here. We all are doing well. Hope things are well with you too. I appreciate your replies to my post. But the problem here is our Bible is not coming in black and white as you quoted that Jesus is only the literal Son of God or begotten directly of God and we will be adopted sons. No where it is clear from our Bible that Jesus became Son of God literally I mean by God fathering Jesus physically.As brother Kerwin says we are also children of God by being reborn by the Spirit of God. Brother Nick says Jesus was reborn of God at Jordan. If so where is the question of Jesus becoming son of God in a deferent way from us. The adoption what Paul talks about and I believe is the only way one can become the son of God. Though it not clear in case of Jesus but some scholars believe that Jesus became son of God at Jordan by the same adoption through the spirit of God.
Many may not agree with me. But this is the only way we can clarify Jesus sonship apart from his flesh and blood relation which can only happen with human parents but not with a God who is Spirit by nature.
Thanks and peace to you
Adam
Hi Brother Adam:I am happy to hear that you and your family are doing well.
I do believe that the scriptures are quite clear that Jesus is the “Only Begotten Son of God” by being conceived in the womb of the virgin Mary through the Holy Ghost.
What do you make of the following scriptures:
Quote Mat 1:20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. Quote Mat 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Quote Luk 1:26 And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth,
Luk 1:27 To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name [was] Mary.
Luk 1:28 And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, [thou that art] highly favoured, the Lord [is] with thee: blessed [art] thou among women.
Luk 1:29 And when she saw [him], she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.
Luk 1:30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.
Luk 1:31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
Luk 1:33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.Quote Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. And so, based on these scriptures, and there may be others, God is the Father of Jesus before he is born of the Spirit. He was a Son of God under the Law of Moses, and was raised by earthly parents who were under the Law. He was anointed of God after his water baptism at the Jordan and sent into the world to preach the gospel, and he was born again from the dead because he obeyed God without sin even unto death on the cross.
And so, because he died unto sin and was resurrected from th dead and was declared not guilty by God. He is the propitiation for our sins, and we then also can die unto sin by accepting his sacrifice as the propitiation for our sins, and by virtue of this, we can also be raised from the dead (spiritual separation from God) and declared not guilty by God and reconciled to Him.
We are not THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD. He is unique in this way. We who are born again Christians have been adopted into the family of God.
You are correct in saying that God Himself is a Spirit and does not Himself have flesh and blood, but He does have a Son who does have flesh and blood, and His Father is God. Therefore, it follows that the Son is God's flesh and blood in the person of His Son.
The body of Christ is the Holy Temple of God.
And this scripture states that all men have sinned, and we know that this is not true of Jesus.
Quote Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: Love in Christ,
MartyMarty………And we ourselves are the temple of GOD also even as Jesus is. That is not unique to Jesus alone, all who have GOd Spirit in them are temples of GOD. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………gene
G,
And you say all men have God's Spirit in them??
Surely rather more are whited sepulchres containing dead men's bones?Nick……..All men have Spirit given them from GOD. I don't say that scripture say's it. For when a person Dies the Spirit returns to him who gave it. That spirit belongs to GOD so it is not wrong to say all men have Spirit from God in them. Now if you are talking about the (HOLY SPIRIT) And confusing it with all Spirit then thas a different matter. Again if you know what a SPIRIT was then you would have not problem understanding that. IMO
peace………………gene
Nick…….Again if you understood what Spirit was you could easily understand what i am saying, but it is evident that You do not understand. You are thinking i am saying the spirit in man is the same as the HOLY SPIRIT. If you could understand SPIRIT is (INTELLECT) this would all make sense to you. IMO
peace and love…………………………gene
Gene,
Do you realize that you are taking your interpretation of two scripture in Revelation, a book full of symbolism, and creating a doctrine out of them with no real support from any other parts of scripture.
The only support I have heard you use outside of those scriptures is that one man believes Elohim is defined as the powers.
Quote (Gene @ May 04 2009,03:31) Nick…….Again if you understood what Spirit was you could easily understand what i am saying, but it is evident that You do not understand. You are thinking i am saying the spirit in man is the same as the HOLY SPIRIT. If you could understand SPIRIT is (INTELLECT) this would all make sense to you. IMO peace and love…………………………gene
Gene,Spirit is Intellect as you say. This means that it is PERSONAL. All things came into being theough HIM, that is, the Word (or Intellect). How can you deny the pre-existence of the Word?
thinker
thinker……..I don't deny the preexistence of the (word) it did preexist because it was GOD Himself but not Jesus as Trinitarians and preexistences think. In the (beginning was the Word). I just don't change its meaning to mean Jesus, but it is the FATHER'S WORD that is being spoken of there, not Jesus at all. Thnker brother just ask yourself this question, if John was talking about Jesus, wouldn't he have just said Jesus, why say Word then? Remember GOD SPOKE everything into existence in the beginning The GOD that said He did it by himself and alone, meaning no one was there with him. A word is INTELLEGENT UTTERANCE, thats what a word is, it is the expression of a person and in this case it is the expression of the (ONE) and ONLY TRUE GOD. John 1:1 has nothing to do with Jesus at all, that is one of the greatest deceptions of Christianity. IMO
Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ May 04 2009,08:06) Gene, Do you realize that you are taking your interpretation of two scripture in Revelation, a book full of symbolism, and creating a doctrine out of them with no real support from any other parts of scripture.
The only support I have heard you use outside of those scriptures is that one man believes Elohim is defined as the powers.
Kerwin……..if you get a good concordance you will see that the word ELOHIM does mean Powers, Most Hebrew Scholars know that, and it is a uni-Plural word, it is not singular all though it can be reckoned as a group representing one unit, like lets say man is made up of many parts but he is still one man, the same holds with the Church tho it is reckoned as ONE BODY it is made up of many members, SO it is with ELOHIM, ONE GOD made up of seven Spirits, as scripture says (FOR these (eyes) ARE the seven Spirits) of GOD.If you apply the word ELOHIM to this you find that the SEVEN Spirits are connected with POWERS (HORNS) is symbolic of POWERS, So from this we can conclude the the Elohim all the seven intellects (Spirits) connected with Powers (horns) that are now in Jesus the Lamb of GOD, or Powers, He has recieved (all) power in heaven and in earth. All seven spirits are (IN) Him and He shall rule with great POWER the power that is GOD. Until all enemy's are put under his feet by these (POWERS) and then he will relinquish the power back to the FATHER, and himself become subject unto Him who gave him the (POWERS), that GOD may be all and in all. IMO
peace and love……………………….gene
Quote (Gene @ May 05 2009,01:47) thinker……..I don't deny the preexistence of the (word) it did preexist because it was GOD Himself but not Jesus as Trinitarians and preexistences think. In the (beginning was the Word). I just don't change its meaning to mean Jesus, but it is the FATHER'S WORD that is being spoken of there, not Jesus at all. Thnker brother just ask yourself this question, if John was talking about Jesus, wouldn't he have just said Jesus, why say Word then? Remember GOD SPOKE everything into existence in the beginning The GOD that said He did it by himself and alone, meaning no one was there with him. A word is INTELLEGENT UTTERANCE, thats what a word is, it is the expression of a person and in this case it is the expression of the (ONE) and ONLY TRUE GOD. John 1:1 has nothing to do with Jesus at all, that is one of the greatest deceptions of Christianity. IMO Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………..gene
Gene,
I am beginning to think you misunderstand Trinitarians. They deny the pre-existence of the flesh of the Word. The Word became flesh. The pre-existent Word was made flesh and was called “Jesus.”thinker
Quote (Nick Hassan @ May 04 2009,07:12) HG,
So somewhere in scripture it says this?
Where?
NIck……….Let just go slow and maybe you can understand it, ask yourself what is a (WORD)a……a cow
b……a house
c……a light bulb
d……a man
e……a church
f…….an expression of intellect or thought.Hint, it none of the first Five. Now with that understanding let apply it to What JESUS said OK< " The (WORDS) (expressed intellect or thought) I have told you (ARE, ARE, ARE) (SPIRIT)". NOW HAS THE LIGHT CAME ON YET?. So now you don't have to ask where does Scripture say that anymore.
peace and love ……………………gene
Quote (thethinker @ May 05 2009,02:09) Quote (Gene @ May 05 2009,01:47) thinker……..I don't deny the preexistence of the (word) it did preexist because it was GOD Himself but not Jesus as Trinitarians and preexistences think. In the (beginning was the Word). I just don't change its meaning to mean Jesus, but it is the FATHER'S WORD that is being spoken of there, not Jesus at all. Thnker brother just ask yourself this question, if John was talking about Jesus, wouldn't he have just said Jesus, why say Word then? Remember GOD SPOKE everything into existence in the beginning The GOD that said He did it by himself and alone, meaning no one was there with him. A word is INTELLEGENT UTTERANCE, thats what a word is, it is the expression of a person and in this case it is the expression of the (ONE) and ONLY TRUE GOD. John 1:1 has nothing to do with Jesus at all, that is one of the greatest deceptions of Christianity. IMO Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………..gene
Gene,
I am beginning to think you misunderstand Trinitarians. They deny the pre-existence of the flesh of the Word. The Word became flesh. The pre-existent Word was made flesh and was called “Jesus.”thinker
Thinker……..This is where i really disagree with Trinitarians because the Believe Jesus preesisted as a GOD, while I believe GOD indwelt the (MAN) Jesus. big difference GOD (ONE GOD) the WORD came and INDWELT JESUS, and this ONE GOD Can also Just as equally in DWELL YOU and ME and ALL. but you see brother its still Just (ONE GOD) not Just two or three triune anythings. It Just one GOD in all and through ALL, But it is true that this (ONE) GOD was certainly in Jesus.” The son of man can do nothing of himself the Father who is in me (HE) doth the works”. Because the fullness of the GOD Head (DWELT) in him mightily. But remember it say (DWELT) in him, not that he was the fullness of the GOD head (HIMSELF) but that it (DWELT in HIM). Thats my difference brother I bleieve GOD can indwell (ALL) and will eventually. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………….gene
Quote (thethinker @ May 05 2009,02:09) Quote (Gene @ May 05 2009,01:47) thinker……..I don't deny the preexistence of the (word) it did preexist because it was GOD Himself but not Jesus as Trinitarians and preexistences think. In the (beginning was the Word). I just don't change its meaning to mean Jesus, but it is the FATHER'S WORD that is being spoken of there, not Jesus at all. Thnker brother just ask yourself this question, if John was talking about Jesus, wouldn't he have just said Jesus, why say Word then? Remember GOD SPOKE everything into existence in the beginning The GOD that said He did it by himself and alone, meaning no one was there with him. A word is INTELLEGENT UTTERANCE, thats what a word is, it is the expression of a person and in this case it is the expression of the (ONE) and ONLY TRUE GOD. John 1:1 has nothing to do with Jesus at all, that is one of the greatest deceptions of Christianity. IMO Peace and love to you and yours brother……………………..gene
Gene,
I am beginning to think you misunderstand Trinitarians. They deny the pre-existence of the flesh of the Word. The Word became flesh. The pre-existent Word was made flesh and was called “Jesus.”thinker
Thinker……..This is where i really disagree with Trinitarians because the Believe Jesus preesisted as a GOD, while I believe GOD indwelt the (MAN) Jesus. big difference GOD (ONE GOD) the WORD came and INDWELT JESUS, and this ONE GOD Can also Just as equally in DWELL YOU and ME and ALL. but you see brother its still Just (ONE GOD) not Just two or three triune anythings. It Just one GOD in all and through ALL, But it is true that this (ONE) GOD was certainly in Jesus.” The son of man can do nothing of himself the Father who is in me (HE) doth the works”. Because the fullness of the GOD Head (DWELT) in him mightily. But remember it say (DWELT) in him, not that he was the fullness of the GOD head (HIMSELF) but that it (DWELT in HIM). Thats my difference brother I bleieve GOD can indwell (ALL) and will eventually. IMOpeace and love to you and yours………………….gene
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