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Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
If Jesus spoke to Paul on that road then that was his second coming
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 30 2011,08:29) Matthew 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. If Jesus spoke to Paul on that road then that was his second coming
Hi BD,I'm glad you realize that Jesus second coming on Pentecost was a spiritual coming.
And that (Shaool) the Apostle Paul's had a personal Pentecost later.
You too can have your own personal Pentecost with YHVH.B'shem
YHVHJesus speaking to Paul on the road wasn't his second coming any more than God speaking to various prophets and disciples was “the dreadful day of the Lord”.
Jesus said that like lightning that is seen from the east to the west, all would see his second coming. In fact, Paul heard Jesus, he didn't see him.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,09:03) Jesus speaking to Paul on the road wasn't his second coming any more than God speaking to various prophets and disciples was “the dreadful day of the Lord”. Jesus said that like lightning that is seen from the east to the west, all would see his second coming. In fact, Paul heard Jesus, he didn't see him.
There are 2 accounts one Paul said he saw and the other he said he heard.But Jesus told them not to believe if someone said they had saw him
Matthew
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Acts 28:4-6
4And when the barbarians saw the venomous beast hang on his hand, they said among themselves, No doubt this man is a murderer, whom, though he hath escaped the sea, yet vengeance suffereth not to live.
5And he shook off the beast into the fire, and felt no harm.
6Howbeit they looked when he should have swollen, or fallen down dead suddenly: but after they had looked a great while, and saw no harm come to him, they changed their minds, and said that he was a god.
Why was that important to write and who wrote it?
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 29 2011,16:50) There are 2 accounts one Paul said he saw and the other he said he heard.
Show me.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,10:15) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 29 2011,16:50) There are 2 accounts one Paul said he saw and the other he said he heard.
Show me.
Acts3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:
4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?
5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
7And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
8And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
1 Corinthians 9:1
Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord?1 Corinthians 15:8
And last of all he was seen by me.The thing is if Paul really met with Jesus on the road this was well after Jesus ascended but Jesus said he would not ascend again until it was his time to come with the Holy angels and reward each man according to HIS worksand how would they see him return?
Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.How did they see Him go into heaveN?
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.Hi BD,
The Apostle Paul (Shaool) is NOT contradicting himself as you believe he is.
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless,
hearing a voice, but seeing no man. (Acts 9:7)Hearing a voice (Acts 9:7)
Heard not the voice (Acts 22:9)Slight variations in eyewitness testimony
adds much credibility to the bible's authenticity.B'shem
YHVHQuote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 29 2011,18:26) The thing is if Paul really met with Jesus on the road this was well after Jesus ascended but Jesus said he would not ascend again until it was his time to come with the Holy angels and reward each man according to HIS worksand how would they see him return? Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.How did they see Him go into heaveN?
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Hey Asana,I'll look into those scriptures soon. But real quick: What about Stephen? Did he not see Jesus before he died?
How would that mean Jesus had descended?
And even if Paul literally saw him, why would that mean Jesus had descended?
It seems to me that Paul saw a bright light that represented the glory and power of Jesus. But I'll look at the scriptures you posted more closely.
Quote (Ed J @ Nov. 30 2011,11:44) Hi BD, The Apostle Paul (Shaool) is NOT contradicting himself as you believe he is.
And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless,
hearing a voice, but seeing no man. (Acts 9:7)Hearing a voice (Acts 9:7)
Heard not the voice (Acts 22:9)Slight variations in eyewitness testimony
adds much credibility to the bible's authenticity.B'shem
YHVH
I agree that contradictions in testimonies lend credibility to the fact that SOMETHING did occur or take place but it does not make valid any specific point.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Nov. 30 2011,11:47) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 29 2011,18:26) The thing is if Paul really met with Jesus on the road this was well after Jesus ascended but Jesus said he would not ascend again until it was his time to come with the Holy angels and reward each man according to HIS worksand how would they see him return? Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.How did they see Him go into heaveN?
Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
Hey Asana,I'll look into those scriptures soon. But real quick: What about Stephen? Did he not see Jesus before he died?
How would that mean Jesus had descended?
And even if Paul literally saw him, why would that mean Jesus had descended?
It seems to me that Paul saw a bright light that represented the glory and power of Jesus. But I'll look at the scriptures you posted more closely.
I understand your point but again it's simply not clearNew American Standard Bible (©1995)
The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no oneNew American Standard Bible (©1995)
“And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to meIn both cases all heard, but in the second rendition he noted they had not understood what the voice was saying, no counterdiction here.
Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 30 2011,12:35) I understand your point but again it's simply not clear
I looked into your verses, and 1 Cor 9:1 uses a Greek word that can mean “visually seen”, or “mentally understood”, sort of like “do you SEE what I mean”.But there is no doubt that 15:8 uses a word that refers to actual sight.
I don't know how to understand the fact that Paul said Jesus “appeared” to him, because the event was described, not as Paul viewing a physical form, but as Paul being blinded by a light so bright he had to close his eyes.
But I think it's safe to say that if Paul himself warned against believing those who said the second coming had already occurred, then Jesus meeting Paul on the road to Damascus coudn't be considered Jesus' “second coming”. At least not from Paul's point of view.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 01 2011,10:38) Quote (bodhitharta @ Nov. 30 2011,12:35) I understand your point but again it's simply not clear
I looked into your verses, and 1 Cor 9:1 uses a Greek word that can mean “visually seen”, or “mentally understood”, sort of like “do you SEE what I mean”.But there is no doubt that 15:8 uses a word that refers to actual sight.
I don't know how to understand the fact that Paul said Jesus “appeared” to him, because the event was described, not as Paul viewing a physical form, but as Paul being blinded by a light so bright he had to close his eyes.
But I think it's safe to say that if Paul himself warned against believing those who said the second coming had already occurred, then Jesus meeting Paul on the road to Damascus coudn't be considered Jesus' “second coming”. At least not from Paul's point of view.
That is a reasonable argument so I cannot reject its validity
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