- This topic is empty.
- Posts
Hi WJ,
Sorry to hear about your tragedy, may it all work out in the end!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (Ed J @ Oct. 20 2010,06:08) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 20 2010,02:17) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 18 2010,23:32) Hey Keith, Did you get standed in Florida?
We kept the thread almost exactly as you left it………….just for you brother! mike
MikeThanks, but right now this forum is the furtherist thing on my mind. I am dealing with a tragedy in my life that I cannot discuss at this time.
BTW if any of you are on facebook, I would like to be your friends if you would like to be mine. My full name is Keith Ratcliffe if you want to look me up.
WJ
Hi WJ,There are 5, which one is you?
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdWow thats amazing. Who would have that name? Anyway it is the heavy set guy with the short hair and white goatee!
WJ
Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 20 2010,06:11) Hi WJ, Sorry to hear about your tragedy, may it all work out in the end!
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
Thanks EDMy faith rest in him and in knowing he is able to work all things together for the good.
Keith
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 19 2010,19:21) Quote (seekingtruth @ Oct. 20 2010,03:56) “Lord just be with my brother and uphold him. Accomplish your will and purpose in his life, uphold & encorage him. I thank you for his love and patience.”
Amen
Thanks Mike!Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2010,03:32) Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 16 2010,01:30) “The Son reflects the nature of the father”…….. NOT……. “the Father reflects the nature of the Son”.
Very nice JA! Mixed in among the many scriptures that CLEARLY distinquish Jesus as someone other than and lessor to God, you have found one that subtly says it louder than many of the “clearly stated” ones.I for one had previously overlooked the importance of this one subtle statement.
Good work and thank you for pointing this out.
peace and love,
mike
TO ALL:JA's and Mike's commentary above is DEAD WRONG! Hebrews 1:1-3 explicitly says that Christ is the RADIANCE of the Father's glory. Jesus is not the REFLECTION of the Father's glory.
Illustration:
The sun is a big sphere of light. Its rays of light RADIATE from and the sun and then touches the earth. The earth then REFLECTS the light from the rays.
Jesus did not REFLECT the glory of the Father. He IS the glory of the Father that RADIATES from the Father. His people are the REFLECTION of that, that is, of the light of Christ.
Again, Jesus is the ray of light that RADIATES from the Father. That which the ray touches then REFLECTS the light. The fact that JA and Mike do not understand the basic distinction between RADIANCE and REFLECTION shows that they do not understand essence.
KJ
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2010,03:32) Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 16 2010,01:30) “The Son reflects the nature of the father”…….. NOT……. “the Father reflects the nature of the Son”.
Very nice JA! Mixed in among the many scriptures that CLEARLY distinquish Jesus as someone other than and lessor to God, you have found one that subtly says it louder than many of the “clearly stated” ones.I for one had previously overlooked the importance of this one subtle statement.
Good work and thank you for pointing this out.
peace and love,
mike
TO ALL:JA's and Mike's commentary above is DEAD WRONG! Hebrews 1:1-3 explicitly says that Christ is the RADIANCE of the Father's glory. Jesus is not the REFLECTION of the Father's glory.
Illustration:
The sun is a big sphere of light. Its rays of light RADIATE from and the sun and then touches the earth. The earth then REFLECTS the light from the rays.
Jesus did not REFLECT the glory of the Father. He IS the glory of the Father that RADIATES from the Father. His people are the REFLECTION of that, that is, of the light of Christ.
Again, Jesus is the ray of light that RADIATES from the Father. That which the ray touches then REFLECTS the light. The fact that JA and Mike do not understand the basic distinction between RADIANCE and REFLECTION shows that they do not understand essence.
The ray is not lesser than the sun but IS the sun touching its surroundings.
KJ
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 13 2011,10:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2010,03:32) Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 16 2010,01:30) “The Son reflects the nature of the father”…….. NOT……. “the Father reflects the nature of the Son”.
Very nice JA! Mixed in among the many scriptures that CLEARLY distinquish Jesus as someone other than and lessor to God, you have found one that subtly says it louder than many of the “clearly stated” ones.I for one had previously overlooked the importance of this one subtle statement.
Good work and thank you for pointing this out.
peace and love,
mike
TO ALL:JA's and Mike's commentary above is DEAD WRONG! Hebrews 1:1-3 explicitly says that Christ is the RADIANCE of the Father's glory. Jesus is not the REFLECTION of the Father's glory.
Illustration:
The sun is a big sphere of light. Its rays of light RADIATE from and the sun and then touches the earth. The earth then REFLECTS the light from the rays.
Jesus did not REFLECT the glory of the Father. He IS the glory of the Father that RADIATES from the Father. His people are the REFLECTION of that, that is, of the light of Christ.
Again, Jesus is the ray of light that RADIATES from the Father. That which the ray touches then REFLECTS the light. The fact that JA and Mike do not understand the basic distinction between RADIANCE and REFLECTION shows that they do not understand essence.
The ray is not lesser than the sun but IS the sun touching its surroundings.
KJ
Hi JackGood point. Not to mention without the Sun there would be no Rays and without the rays there would be no Sun.
Blessings Keith
Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Jan. 14 2011,06:52) Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 13 2011,10:47) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 17 2010,03:32) Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 16 2010,01:30) “The Son reflects the nature of the father”…….. NOT……. “the Father reflects the nature of the Son”.
Very nice JA! Mixed in among the many scriptures that CLEARLY distinquish Jesus as someone other than and lessor to God, you have found one that subtly says it louder than many of the “clearly stated” ones.I for one had previously overlooked the importance of this one subtle statement.
Good work and thank you for pointing this out.
peace and love,
mike
TO ALL:JA's and Mike's commentary above is DEAD WRONG! Hebrews 1:1-3 explicitly says that Christ is the RADIANCE of the Father's glory. Jesus is not the REFLECTION of the Father's glory.
Illustration:
The sun is a big sphere of light. Its rays of light RADIATE from and the sun and then touches the earth. The earth then REFLECTS the light from the rays.
Jesus did not REFLECT the glory of the Father. He IS the glory of the Father that RADIATES from the Father. His people are the REFLECTION of that, that is, of the light of Christ.
Again, Jesus is the ray of light that RADIATES from the Father. That which the ray touches then REFLECTS the light. The fact that JA and Mike do not understand the basic distinction between RADIANCE and REFLECTION shows that they do not understand essence.
The ray is not lesser than the sun but IS the sun touching its surroundings.
KJ
Hi JackGood point. Not to mention without the Sun there would be no Rays and without the rays there would be no Sun.
Blessings Keith
Without the rays the sun would be a dead and worthless body.There is no scripture anywhere which says that Jesus is the reflection of God. This idea is a figment of JA's and Mike's imaginations. He is the RADIANCE of God. BIG difference!
Jack
Jack and Keith,
Does scripture ever tell us that the Father radiates the glory of the Son? THAT was the point JA was making, and he mistakenly posted “reflect” instead of “radiate”.
mike
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 14 2011,13:20) Jack and Keith, Does scripture ever tell us that the Father radiates the glory of the Son? THAT was the point JA was making, and he mistakenly posted “reflect” instead of “radiate”.
mike
Mike,The scripture does NOT tell us that the Father radiates from the Son. It clearly says that the Son is the “RADIANCE” of the Father's glory.
Quote 3 The Son is the RADIANCE of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. Hebrews 1:3NIV
Radiance does not reflect the glory of a thing but is the emanation of that thing because it proceeds from that thing. That which the emanation touches is the reflector. Jesus is the emantion of God which touches you. This makes YOU the reflector and not Jesus.Your admission that the word “reflect” was the wrong word for JA to use is substantial. You should now reconsider your non-trinitarian views.
Jack
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2011,11:00) Jack, Doesn't all of creation radiate the glory of God?
mike
Mike,Why won't you prove your thesis? If all creation radiates the glory of God, then how is Jesus set apart from all others? Hebrews 1:1-6 clearly distinguishes Jesus from all the angels. How is Jesus any different from the angels if “all creation radiates the glory of God”? Jesus and not the angels nor any created thing is identified as the “RADIANCE of God's glory.”
No Mike! The scripture says that the creation DECLARES the glory of God. Only Jesus is the “RADIANCE of His glory and the EXACT representation of His person.”
Jack
Quote (Kangaroo Jack Jr. @ Jan. 17 2011,01:59) No Mike! The scripture says that the creation DECLARES the glory of God. Only Jesus is the “RADIANCE of His glory and the EXACT representation of His person.”
Yes Jack,Jesus IS something, isn't he? He is the second most powerful being in existence and the most glorious creation of his God.
But let's follow your line of thought for a minute. If scripture said that Jesus was the EXACT representation of “THE FATHER”, then you might have a leg to stand on. But to say he is the “exact representation” of “GOD” leaves you with nothing.
The Father cannot be said to be the “exact representation” of God, for He IS God. For anyone or anything to be a representation of something, those two things cannot be the same thing. And since it is said that Jesus is the exact representation, not of THE FATHER, but of GOD, then Jesus cannot actually BE God.
And yes, every single thing God created radiates the glory of its wonderful Creator…………Jesus more than all the rest, for he is the greatest creation of all.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2011,11:00) Jack, Doesn't all of creation radiate the glory of God?
mike
Greetings Mike…. Iam on board with that concept….all one has to do is contemplate the magnificesence that is the workings of the human mind and harmony of the human body while looking up at the order of the universe and how can you not see God….Gods ultimate plan is to reproduce beings in harmony with himself in both thought and deed…These beings will be spirit in nature and could be us if we choose the way of life…Hi
In Gen 1:1 states that God created the heaven. and the earth. The Book of Enoch explains the order of heaven, and all that was created in heaven. Heaven was first then the earth was second, then every thing thereafter as we all know already. He is God's Son. Then the Spirit of God moved upon the deep. ect, ect. Gen . 1:26, God said Let Us Create Man in Our Image. Where did Jesus come from? He was there in creation , from glory to return to glory.
Mk. 16:19, Lk.24:51, Acts1:9-11, Eph. 4:8-10, Acts 2:33, John 16:5-14.
Bump for Jack
The Father cannot be said to be the “exact representation” of God, for He IS God. For anyone or anything to be a representation of something, those two things cannot be the same thing. And since it is said that Jesus is the exact representation, not of THE FATHER, but of GOD, then Jesus cannot actually BE God.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:36) Bump for Jack The Father cannot be said to be the “exact representation” of God, for He IS God.
Why not? God has form, and whatever that form is “represents” him.Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:36) For anyone or anything to be a representation of something, those two things cannot be the same thing.
You left out the word “exact”. If someone is an “exact” representation of you then it is you or it is not “exact” is it?Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 22 2011,10:36) And since it is said that Jesus is the exact representation, not of THE FATHER, but of GOD, then Jesus cannot actually BE God.
Can any being be an “exact representation” of God and not be God?WJ
WJ said to Mike:
Quote You left out the word “exact”. If someone is an “exact” representation of you then it is you or it is not “exact” is it?
Hi Keith,The word “exact representation” is the Greek “charakter” and means “indistinguishable.” It is used in the LXX in Leviticus 13:8 where Leupold tanslates it “indistinguishable.” It says that Christ is the “indistinguishable” representation of the Father's SUBSTANCE. This is confirmed in the previous clause which says that Jesus is the RADIANCE of the Father's glory. He is of the same substance as the Father.
Mike said:
Quote And since it is said that Jesus is the exact representation, not of THE FATHER, but of GOD, then Jesus cannot actually BE God.
Of course Jesus is not the Father. Duh! Trinitarians do not teach that Christ is the Father. But as the “indistinguishable representation” of the Father He is therefore God like the Father.Keith has it right:
Quote Can any being be an “exact representation” of God and not be God? Roo
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.
