Does god procreate?

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 04 2010,16:52)

WJ, 'get thee behind me', you speak like a sick drunk man. You not even making any sense.

Sad.

[JustAskin]

WJ, You are deliberately posting nonesense to try and hide your poor rendering…but it's too late as everyone can see that you are posting nonesense.

You forget that everyone can see your unscriptural posts?

If you had scriptural support for your post you wouldn't need to,post gibberish. In fact, you would have eagerly posted 'scripture' against JustAskin, but you never have. I didn't want to bring that up but there it is…you HAVE NEVER posted a single post that proved me wrong against you.

It surprised me today to see you trying again,'oh ye of ever forgetful mind when it comes to beng beaten'. Only by employing 'Amnesia' can you maintain yourself in this forum, spouting the same poorly thought out Trinity crap from your guinnea-pig running wheel, loads of energy expended for virtually no worthy outcome.

WJ, to deal with your post is tedious at best, soporific at worst.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 04 2010,16:15)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 03 2010,23:38) Keith: Quote You have made a very good point that is totally irrefutable, Thank you.  I believe I have done the same with Micah 5:4.  Will you discuss it, or just keep saying I'm a “rabbit hole” or whatever? Keith: Quote If you say the “likeness of a human being” is man, then why do you say the “form of God” is not God? I've answered this in one of the debate threads I made while you were moving.  Maybe you didn't see it. 1.  Cain had the form of man.   2.  He had the form of a human being.   3.  He had the form of the only other man in existence at the time – Adam. 1.  Jesus had the form of God.   2.  He had the form of a “mighty one”.   3.  He had the form of the only other “mighty one” in existence at the time – Jehovah. Now if Cain wasn't Adam himself, or even a part of the “being of Adam”, then why would you think those same circumstances would make Jesus God Himself, or even a part of the “being of God”? peace and love, mike Mike Is the Father “in the form of God”? Or do you believe he has no form? WJ

Hi Keith,

The Father IS “THE God”.  The one that Jesus calls “the ONLY true God”.

You asked:

Quote

If you say the “likeness of a human being” is man, then why do you say the “form of God” is not God?

Keith, a person who is in the “likeness of a human being” is not “man”, but “A man”.  A person who has the likeness of God is not “GOD”, but “a god”.  In other words, Jesus was in the form of THE ALMIGHTY ONE, which means he was himself A MIGHTY ONE.  Can you understand that logic?  

So let me try my “Cain” example a different way.  Let's say this is written about Cain:

Cain, who existing in the form of Adam, emptied himself, and was made in the likeness of a cow.

Now remember that Adam and Cain are the only two men alive at the time this was said about him.  Would you logically conclude that:

1.  Before being made as a cow, Cain had many of the same qualities and features as Adam……..such as similar intelligence capabilities, similar strength, and a similar emotional make up?

OR………

2.  Before being made as a cow, Cain was actually Adam himself and that the two were not two separate beings, but in fact two separate persons within the same one being?

Phil 2:6 says that Jesus was existing in the form OF GOD.  It clearly says that one had the “form” of another.  If Jesus actually WAS that “other”, then it wouldn't be said he had the “form” OF the other…….it would have been said that Jesus WAS that other.

And I'm on board with the ontological aspect of it.  God is a spirit being.  So Jesus must naturally also be a spirit being, for he must be ontologically the same as the One who begot him.  But that's where it ends……..Jesus is LIKE his Father, but not the same being as his Father.  Like Cain and Adam, Jesus has similar intelligence capabilities, strength and emotional make up as his Father……but he is NOT actually his Father.

And just like you wouldn't logically assume that “in the form of Adam” would mean Cain actually WAS the being of Adam, you shouldn't assume that Phil 2:7 is saying that Jesus IS THE God, just because he has THE God's nature/form.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Keith:

Quote

Is Jesus the “Only of its kind” Son (for kathis sake) or not?

Keith, Jesus is the “only begotten Son”.  That's what the words say, and that's what the words mean.  There is no grammatical evidence to support this new trinitarian sponsored “push” to make “monogenes” mean other than “only begotten”.

Every instance of “monogenes” in the NT clearly identifies one who is the only child a father begot…….EXCEPT for Isaac.  And even in that instance, it is not the literal “begotten” part that is in question, but the “only” part.  Do you understand that?  EVERY instance of “monogenes” in the NT refers to a child who was LITERALLY begotten, or “caused to exist” by a father.  And in all cases but one, it refers to an ONLY child who was LITERALLY begotten by a father.

Keith:

Quote

If so then his oneness with the Father is ontologically the same.

No Keith.  His “oneness” with the Father means no more than if Adam and Cain worked together on a project and had the same “oneness” in desire and aim to accomplish their goal.  Their “oneness” is the unity between two separate beings to achieve a mutually accepted goal.  Jesus' being “one” with his God doesn't make him BE his own God, Jehovah any more than some of us being “one” with him and his God would make us BE our own God, Jehovah.

peace and love,
mike

[Baker]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 05 2010,11:34)

Keith: Quote Is Jesus the “Only of its kind” Son (for kathis sake) or not? Keith, Jesus is the “only begotten Son”.  That's what the words say, and that's what the words mean.  There is no grammatical evidence to support this new trinitarian sponsored “push” to make “monogenes” mean other than “only begotten”. Every instance of “monogenes” in the NT clearly identifies one who is the only child a father begot…….EXCEPT for Isaac.  And even in that instance, it is not the literal “begotten” part that is in question, but the “only” part.  Do you understand that?  EVERY instance of “monogenes” in the NT refers to a child who was LITERALLY begotten, or “caused to exist” by a father.  And in all cases but one, it refers to an ONLY child who was LITERALLY begotten by a father. Keith: Quote If so then his oneness with the Father is ontologically the same. No Keith.  His “oneness” with the Father means no more than if Adam and Cain worked together on a project and had the same “oneness” in desire and aim to accomplish their goal.  Their “oneness” is the unity between two separate beings to achieve a mutually accepted goal.  Jesus' being “one” with his God doesn't make him BE his own God, Jehovah any more than some of us being “one” with him and his God would make us BE our own God, Jehovah. peace and love, mike

Hi Mike, did you run everyone out? the board is dead. Irene

[mikeboll64]

Keith:

Quote

First of all it is a “loaded” question for it assumes that the word “God” is exclusive to the Father

Hi Keith, is the word “Elohim” exclusive to the Father IN THE CONTEXT OF MICAH 5:4?  Yes, so please answer the question for real.

Keith:

Quote

So the answer is “yes” it clearly distinguishes between the Father and Jesus.

Oops, I guess you did.  So if you agree that Micah 5:4 “clearly distinguishes between the Father and Jesus”, do you also agree that Jesus will rule for his God in the strength and majesty of his God?

And do you further agree that Jesus cannot possibly be a part of any “Elohim-head” if he is clearly distinguished as someone who is other than and lessor to “Elohim” Himself?

Get it?  “Elohim” is YHVH.  Jesus is someone other than “YHVH Elohim”.

And I know you like to say that Jesus is just a “lessor” rank WITHIN the “Godhead”, (which actually goes against the Creed you tout) but Micah 5:4 drives home the fact that he is not even a part OF “Elohim”.  In fact, “YHVH Elohim” is HIS God.  Why does a member OF God have to rule in the power and majesty of HIS God?  As a member of THE God, would he himself have anyone he calls “my God”?  Does God have a God?

About your “mighty God” scriptures, NETNotes explains:

….the Davidic king is not mentioned in the immediate context of Isa 10:21 (see Isa 11, however). The preceding verse mentions Israel relying on the Lord, so it is likely that the title refers to God here.

And about Titus 2:13, I've already showed you from the use of the genetive form of Greek words that it is better translated by the NWT:

13 while we wait for the happy hope and glorious manifestation of the great God and of [the] Savior of us, Christ Jesus,

Keith, this is what I was talking about when I started those last two debates.  You make a claim, I SOLIDLY refute it, you ignore that clear info…….just to make the same claim again later.

Man, I spent hours searching, cutting and pasting Paul's letters.  I showed that in every letter Paul wrote, there were words similar to this:

Romans 1:7-9 NIV
Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

8First, I thank my God through Jesus Christ for all of you, because your faith is being reported all over the world. 9God, whom I serve with my whole heart in preaching the gospel of his Son,

Is is hard for you to see from this letter that Paul is very much aware that Jesus is someone OTHER THAN God?  He says peace to you from God our Father…….AND……the Lord Jesus Christ.  One is God……the Father.  The other is not God……but our Lord.

He says he thanks our God – one being, THROUGH Jesus – another being.

He says he serves God by preaching the gospel of His Son.  He doesn't say “Father” as oposed to “Son” Keith.  He says “GOD” as opposed to “Son”.  Get it?  The Father is GOD, the Son is NOT.

I looked up and posted many verses where Paul says “Blessed is the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,”, like this instance in 2 Cor 1:3.

This is the same Paul that says “there is but ONE God….the Father”.  Yet you would have us believe that he knew Jesus was also “God” because of a mistranslation of Titus 2:13?  

Would you like me to start a thread about Titus 2:13 Keith?  We could really delve into all the times Paul makes it clear that Jesus is someone other than God.  If not, then please stop popping this scripture in here and there when it's been solidly refuted.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Baker @ Oct. 05 2010,11:48)

Hi Mike, did you run everyone out? the board is dead. Irene

Hi Irene,

I sure hope not!

mike

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 04 2010,17:47)

WJ, You are deliberately posting nonesense to try and hide your poor rendering…but it's too late as everyone can see that you are posting nonesense. You forget that everyone can see your unscriptural posts? If you had scriptural support for your post you wouldn't need to,post gibberish. In fact, you would have eagerly posted 'scripture' against JustAskin, but you never have. I didn't want to bring that up but there it is…you HAVE NEVER posted a single post that proved me wrong against you. It surprised me today to see you trying again,'oh ye of ever forgetful mind when it comes to beng beaten'. Only by employing 'Amnesia' can you maintain yourself in this forum, spouting the same poorly thought out Trinity crap from your guinnea-pig running wheel, loads of energy expended for virtually no worthy outcome. WJ, to deal with your post is tedious at best, soporific at worst.

Hi All

Can anybody see the beating of the chest here?

Or maybe it is just the same ole attack the person like a big bully so that I can feel good about myself.

JA you are the expert at ad hominems.

I posted scriptures JA and you posted none. You mentioned one and I debunked it. Ha.

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 05 2010,21:15)

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 04 2010,17:47) WJ, You are deliberately posting nonesense to try and hide your poor rendering…but it's too late as everyone can see that you are posting nonesense. You forget that everyone can see your unscriptural posts? If you had scriptural support for your post you wouldn't need to,post gibberish. In fact, you would have eagerly posted 'scripture' against JustAskin, but you never have. I didn't want to bring that up but there it is…you HAVE NEVER posted a single post that proved me wrong against you. It surprised me today to see you trying again,'oh ye of ever forgetful mind when it comes to beng beaten'. Only by employing 'Amnesia' can you maintain yourself in this forum, spouting the same poorly thought out Trinity crap from your guinnea-pig running wheel, loads of energy expended for virtually no worthy outcome. WJ, to deal with your post is tedious at best, soporific at worst. Hi All Can anybody see the beating of the chest here? Or maybe it is just the same ole attack the person like a big bully so that I can feel good about myself. JA you are the expert at ad hominems. I posted scriptures JA and you posted none. You mentioned one and I debunked it. Ha. WJ

WJ

do you think people here in the forum are blind ?
we can see the deciet in you answers ,

if you were totaly true you would have used less words more meaning and truth.

you use to much rubber words.

Pierre

[mikeboll64]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 05 2010,14:15)

Hi All Can anybody see the beating of the chest here?

I'm just glad he's chewing on you instead of me for the moment!

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 04 2010,16:15)

Mike Is the Father “in the form of God”? Or do you believe he has no form? WJ

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 04 2010,19:15)

Hi Keith, The Father IS “THE God”.  The one that Jesus calls “the ONLY true God”.

You didn't answer the questions?

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 05 2010,07:04)

JA Can you show me in the NT where any other being is called “God” by the Father other than Jesus? WJ

Hi WJ,

The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate…
distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit.

What you suggest is no-where to be found in the Scriptures at all, PERIOD!
Only in the mind of you and your favorite translators (A.K.A. Scripture adjusters).

Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH!
יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

[Ed J]

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 05 2010,08:04)

WJ, You truly are naive.

HI JustAskin,

Agreed!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 05 2010,11:34)

Keith: Every instance of “monogenes” in the NT clearly identifies one who is the only child a father begot…….EXCEPT for Isaac.   peace and love, mike

Hi Mike,

Isaac is truly the only begotten son as well,
not of Abraham but of Sarah (Isaac's mother)!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

WJ

see you do it again;Stick to the word. John 1:1, Phil 2:6, 7

WJ

this is not right ;you have to look at the entire scriptures to make sure it is in harmony with it,not one or two verses and sometimes words,

if you can not do that, then you pick up a name.

Pierre

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2010,22:53)

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 05 2010,07:04) JA Can you show me in the NT where any other being is called “God” by the Father other than Jesus? WJ Hi WJ, The systems of religion and traditions of men communicate… distortions of truth, confusion of mind, and distractions of spirit. What you suggest is no-where to be found in the Scriptures at all, PERIOD! Only in the mind of you and your favorite translators (A.K.A. Scripture adjusters). Witnessing to a worldwide audience in behalf of YHVH! יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 49:16 / Isaiah 60:14) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org (Ecl.9:12-16)

ED

I thought you believed the AKJV is the only inspired book.

But unto the Son he saith, “Thy throne, O God“, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8

The Net says…

Hebrews 1:8 is thus a strong affirmation of the deity of Christ.

As far as I know every major translation renders the verse that way.

Can you present a credible Bible that doesn't? Oh thats right, the Arian bible the NWT the one that was translated by men who had no Biblical Hebrew or Greek credentials.

So why should I believe you over the experts? Who made you the final word on the truth? Where are your credentials?

Don't take this as an I will continue conversation with you because already you are slinging mud.

WJ

[Worshipping Jesus]

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2010,22:54)

Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 05 2010,08:04) WJ, You truly are naive. HI JustAskin, Agreed! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

You guys remind me of a bunch of bullies ganging up on a kid in a school yard.

Kids will be kids!  

WJ

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Oct. 05 2010,06:34)

Keith: Quote First of all it is a “loaded” question for it assumes that the word “God” is exclusive to the Father Hi Keith, is the word “Elohim” exclusive to the Father IN THE CONTEXT OF MICAH 5:4?  Yes, so please answer the question for real. Keith: Quote So the answer is “yes” it clearly distinguishes between the Father and Jesus. Oops, I guess you did.  So if you agree that Micah 5:4 “clearly distinguishes between the Father and Jesus”, do you also agree that Jesus will rule for his God in the strength and majesty of his God? And do you further agree that Jesus cannot possibly be a part of any “Elohim-head” if he is clearly distinguished as someone who is other than and lessor to “Elohim” Himself? Get it?  “Elohim” is YHVH.  Jesus is someone other than “YHVH Elohim”. And I know you like to say that Jesus is just a “lessor” rank WITHIN the “Godhead”, (which actually goes against the Creed you tout) but Micah 5:4 drives home the fact that he is not even a part OF “Elohim”.  In fact, “YHVH Elohim” is HIS God.  Why does a member OF God have to rule in the power and majesty of HIS God?  As a member of THE God, would he himself have anyone he calls “my God”?  Does God have a God?

Question mike?
Micah 5:4
How is it talking about Jesus within the context?
Im just wondering

————————–
***************
Never mind i answered my own Question

[SimplyForgiven]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 05 2010,09:28)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2010,22:54) Quote (JustAskin @ Oct. 05 2010,08:04) WJ, You truly are naive. HI JustAskin, Agreed! God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org You guys remind me of a bunch of bullies ganging up on a kid in a school yard. Kids will be kids!   WJ

Tricks are for Kids
awesom cereal!

[Ed J]

Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 05 2010,15:24)

Quote (Ed J @ Oct. 04 2010,22:53) Quote (WorshippingJesus @ Oct. 05 2010,07:04) JA Can you show me in the NT where any other being is called “God” by the Father other than Jesus? WJ Hi WJ, What you suggest is no-where to be found in the Scriptures at all, PERIOD! Only in the mind of you and your favorite translators (A.K.A. Scripture adjusters). ED I thought you believed the AKJV is the only inspired book. But unto the Son he saith, “Thy throne, O God“, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. Hebrews 1:8 … WJ

Hi WJ,

I took away the mud for you; OK?
The original Greek manuscripts did not have commas.

So I took the liberty of removing two commas and repositioned he saith inverse 8,
along with adding identifiers, strictly for purposes of clarifying the meaning.
Note: I have “also removed” one comma from verse 7 after spirits.

Hebrews 1:7-9 And of the angels he saith, who maketh his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire.
8: But he saith unto the Son, Thy throne O God(YHVH) is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness
is the sceptre of thy(Jesus' by proxy his Father's) kingdom. 9: Thou(Jesus) hast loved righteousness,
and hated iniquity; therefore God(YHVH), even thy God(YHVH), hath anointed thee(Jesus) with the
oil of gladness above thy fellows(brothers). Let me know if you have any additional concerns?

Verse 9 has an intrinsic connection the idea of “oil” and how it relates to YHVH.
I can elaborate on this point more if you want? (I'm “a teacher” you know)
                                                                               (Ephesians 4:11-16)
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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