Does god know the future?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 08 2014,01:55)

God does not need foreseen ,or foreknowledge ;he knows………..

Pierre,

I've tried my best to get you past this thing that holding you back.

If God “knows” what's going to happen, like you've said, then God has “foresight” of what's going to happen.

Don't you get it?  To “know” things of the future is the exact same thing as “having foresight”.

This discussion reminds me of Gene arguing that men “have the liberty to exercise their wills”, but then arguing that men DON'T “have free will”.

He is saying they DO have free wills with his first statement while arguing that they DON'T have free wills with his second.

It is the same with you here.  You are saying that God DOES know what's going to happen in the future in your first statement, but then arguing AGAINST your own statement by saying God DOESN'T have foresight in your second statement.

And like Gene, you apparently don't even see that your first statement and your second statement are talking about the same exact thing.

Gene is basically saying, “Men DO have free wills, but men DON'T have free wills”.

And you are basically saying, “God DOES have foresight, but God DOESN'T have foresight”.

And I'm sorry, but I can't seem to figure out a way to get either of you guys to see that you're arguing against your own words.

I have no choice but to give up for now.  If I think of something that might help, I will let you know.

[Worshipping Jesus]

If the Lord created everything in the universe then he must be omniscient. He has the hairs of every human numbered, which would mean that when you or I lose a hair he changes his records. He sees and know all and everything is open and naked to him or he would not be God!

For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

WJ

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 08 2014,19:50)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 08 2014,01:55) God does not need foreseen ,or foreknowledge ;he knows……….. Pierre, I've tried my best to get you past this thing that holding you back. If God “knows” what's going to happen, like you've said, then God has “foresight” of what's going to happen. Don't you get it?  To “know” things of the future is the exact same thing as “having foresight”. This discussion reminds me of Gene arguing that men “have the liberty to exercise their wills”, but then arguing that men DON'T “have free will”. He is saying they DO have free wills with his first statement while arguing that they DON'T have free wills with his second. It is the same with you here.  You are saying that God DOES know what's going to happen in the future in your first statement, but then arguing AGAINST your own statement by saying God DOESN'T have foresight in your second statement. And like Gene, you apparently don't even see that your first statement and your second statement are talking about the same exact thing. Gene is basically saying, “Men DO have free wills, but men DON'T have free wills”. And you are basically saying, “God DOES have foresight, but God DOESN'T have foresight”. And I'm sorry, but I can't seem to figure out a way to get either of you guys to see that you're arguing against your own words. I have no choice but to give up for now.  If I think of something that might help, I will let you know.

Mike

thank for your effort ,and I mean it ,

but God as a plan actually he as many plans ,those plans can not be changed unless he make that change ,

just Like in Jonas case ;

and Noah ,and with Jesus his son,

if you ever took the time to see a ant nest and watch it for a while and look to a few characters in that nest were they coming and going and what they doing or transporting ;you probability can foreknow were they going and what they going to do ;because an ant can only do what a ant can do ;but sins you look at a certain height above them your view sees many things that the ants do not see ,and you can stop any one of them ,and so control them in a sens ,

of cause God is much greater than us ,and we are better than ants ,but the similarity remains the same ,and God sees the heart of men but he also sees all what is hidden in the world from all of us it does not matter if you are deep in a mountain or the sea or in the air above the earth,HOW HE SEES THIS I DO NOT KNOW BUT THIS IS SOME THING WHICH CAN DETERMINE OUR BEHAVIOR ,AND ALSO OUR POTENTIAL IN THE DIRECTION WE WILL GO :GOOD OR BAD,this goes for the nations leader as well as for the poor or rich and in between

i ALSO KNOW THAT GOD AS SOME MILLIONS OF ANGELS THAT REPORT TO HIM ON A DAILY BASES OF WHAT GOING ON ,ON EARTH ,SO THAT HE CAN INTERVENE AT ANY TIME HE FEEL THAT IT IS NEEDED ,

GOD DOES NOT FORESEE BUT rather OVERSEES HIS PLANS DEVELOPMENT ;SOME MEN HAVE RECEIVE FOREKNOWLEDGE BY VISION OF WHAT HE WILL DO IN THE FUTURE FOR THOSE THAT WILL NEEDED IN TIME , SOME HAVE BEEN CONTACTED BY HIS ANGEL(S) FOR DIRECT ACTION,

JUST REMEMBER GOD CAN SWIPE THIS WORLD AWAY BY A SINGLE LITTLE THING SO LITTLE THAT WE NEED A MICROSCOPE TO SEE IT AND WE WOULD BE NO MORE ;

I KNOW THAT GOD DOES NOT CREATED EVIL AND SO DOES NOT THINK EVIL ,BUT IF WE SAY THAT HE KNOWS EVERYTHING THEN HE DOES KNOW EVIL AND CREATED IT;AND SO WE WOULD NOT BE GUILTY OF SIN ,THIS IS OF THE DEVIL

THEIR IS A SCRIPTURE i CAN'T REMEMBER WERE IT IS NOW,BUT IT TALKS ABOUT GOD VENGEANCE ON THE WICKED THAT SAYS ;HE WILL AVENGE HIS PEOPLE ON THE WICKED BUT HE ALSO “WILL CHOSE THE TIME AND THE WAY ”

BUT IF I AM WRONG IN MY THINKING GOD WILL SHOW ME IN TIME ;I KNOW HE NEVER AS DECEIVED ME .

[mikeboll64]

Fair enough, Pierre.

peace and love to you and yours

[terraricca]

[terraricca]

Mike

Did you remember how you could foresee the time were the triny,s take over this forum and you also mention the reason for it ,

And you did not receive the Holy Spirit on it right

[Wakeup]

There is no yesterday nor tomorrow for God.
All is today. 2014 is also today for God.
2050 is also today for God.

wakeup.

[mikeboll64]

Pierre,

I can use statistical data and my knowledge of human nature to make EDUCATED GUESSES about things that may or may not eventually come to be.

But I can't say with any certainty that while writing this word, I will even be around to finish the sentence.

I don't KNOW that any particular thing will happen in the future.  I can only GUESS about it.

On the other hand, God KNOWS with certainty what's going to take place.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2014,23:48)

Pierre, I can use statistical data and my knowledge of human nature to make EDUCATED GUESSES about things that may or may not eventually come to be. But I can't say with any certainty that while writing this word, I will even be around to finish the sentence. I don't KNOW that any particular thing will happen in the future.  I can only GUESS about it. On the other hand, God KNOWS with certainty what's going to take place.

Mike

does God not use guesses by knowing the heart of men ,and yet not all are included in his declaration because we know that their was righteous men around at all times even though they were few in number ,

just as I showed you with Moses and Joshua and the elders dead ;

this seems an habit with men when they have a good leader all is well he dies all turn back to wilderness so to speak

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2014,11:57)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2014,23:48) I don't KNOW that any particular thing will happen in the future.  I can only GUESS about it. On the other hand, God KNOWS with certainty what's going to take place. Mike does God not use guesses by knowing the heart of men………..

Well, that's one of the possibilities I listed a long time ago on this thread, Pierre.

I didn't think anyone would choose to say that God GUESSES about what is going to be, but I listed it anyway.

Are you saying that you do choose that option?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2014,00:14)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2014,11:57) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 16 2014,23:48) I don't KNOW that any particular thing will happen in the future.  I can only GUESS about it. On the other hand, God KNOWS with certainty what's going to take place. Mike does God not use guesses by knowing the heart of men……….. Well, that's one of the possibilities I listed a long time ago on this thread, Pierre. I didn't think anyone would choose to say that God GUESSES about what is going to be, but I listed it anyway. Are you saying that you do choose that option?

Mike

are we not facing two possibilities either of doing good or bad, did God not say at the time of the flood ,THAT MEN'S HEART IS TURNED MORE TO WICKEDNESS EVERY DAY ,when God talks abode a remnant of is people did he not know that only a small number will be saved yet he would like all to be saved but it is up to us to accept his grace

why in Revelation the great crowed as no number on it

it is a open number ,in no way will God put a number to those that are saved ,because it is up to us to take the offer of his grace, God knows the number of the redeemed from the earth ,this is a fact ,

it is not that God does guess work ;but not all his work has two option

[mikeboll64]

Pierre,

This is the ONLY question on the table right now:

Do YOU believe that God makes “educated GUESSES” about what's going to happen in the future?

Or do you think God KNOWS without a doubt what's going to happen in the future?

Which one?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2014,09:15)

Pierre, This is the ONLY question on the table right now: Do YOU believe that God makes “educated GUESSES” about what's going to happen in the future?   Or do you think God KNOWS without a doubt what's going to happen in the future? Which one?

Mike

You are talking about his will and there I have to say no,

[mikeboll64]

It was an “either/or” question, Pierre. “No” doesn't tell me anything.

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2014,09:40)

It was an “either/or” question, Pierre.  “No” doesn't tell me anything.

Mike

What ever is related to his will is not guess work

When it is our will we have to decide

[mikeboll64]

Pierre,

Are you saying that when God tells us what's going to happen in the future, sometimes He's just making an “educated GUESS”?

[terraricca]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2014,09:54)

Pierre, Are you saying that when God tells us what's going to happen in the future, sometimes He's just making an “educated GUESS”?

Mike

Quote

Are you saying that when God tells us what's going to happen in the future,

no ,that is not what I am saying ;what I am saying is that when God show 's his will their is hardly any negotiation,,

when his will is made clear ;we have to receive knowledge of it and accepted or rejected ,if we accept his will we will be called righteous if we refuse we will be called wicked ,

this decision for being in either camp depend on our own will and choice ;

it is true that God will help us to chose the right direction but it does not mean that we will ,and for many reasons ,

we as men can make a calculated guess on this and it will be a 50/50 chance based on our knowledge ,but God's knowledge is way higher than ours and so his guess is probably dead on all the time ,
for his judgment are righteous ,I wander if we really know what righteous in the site of God means ,I try to explain the best way I can ;
see God says in Geneses about the people before the flood “THAT THE HEART OF MEN IS GOING TO WICKEDNESS MORE EVERY DAY ;this is something God sees from heaven ,we can not see what he sees ,

same thing with the Jews it is because of the way they behave that God knows what is in their hearts

also God as the shadow plan and the real plan ;this the reader as to find which one he is reading and understanding ;so that he follow the real one

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 16 2014,23:38)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 17 2014,09:54) Pierre, Are you saying that when God tells us what's going to happen in the future, sometimes He's just making an “educated GUESS”? we as men can make a calculated guess on this and it will be a 50/50 chance based on our knowledge ,but God's knowledge is way higher than ours and so his guess is probably dead on all the time………

So it is just a “guess”? And God is “probably” right all the time?

Okay Pierre. You are welcome to that understanding. I believe that when God foretells something that's going to happen, it's because He KNOWS FOR A FACT – not because He's pretty good at guessing.

[terraricca]

Mike

It seems that now you are in line with what I have said right from the beginning GOD knows he does not foresees his own knowing

[mikeboll64]

Pierre,

1.  God foreknows future events.

2.  God foresees future events.

They both mean the same exact thing.  So you are right that we have both been saying the same thing right from the beginning.

The only difference has been that you don't KNOW that #1 and #2 above mean the same exact thing – despite the many times I've told you so.

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