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Certain groups, notably the Mormons, have committed the error of saying that God the Father has a body, and have thus become anthropomorphites, people who say that God has a human form.
In recent years, this form of doctrinal decay has also set in among certain segments of American Evangelicalism, most notably in the Pentecostal Word Faith movement. Evangelicals such as Finnis Dake, Jimmy Swaggart, Kenneth Copeland, and Benny Hinn have all (temporarily or permanently) bought into the idea that the Father has a body.
Anthropomorphites argue that man is made in the image of God (Gen. 1:26–27) and point to verses that refer to the strong right arm of God, the eyes of God, and so forth.
In doing this, they profoundly misunderstand Scripture. First, the image of God we bear involves our rational soul that separates us from animals (the function that the image plays in Genesis 1 is to separate humans from the animals God has just created). Second, talk in the Bible about God’s strong right arm, his eyes, and such is metaphorical language concerning God’s power and knowledge. This can be seen by the fact that the Bible also speaks of God as having feathers and wings; yet even the anthropomorphites would not go this far (cf. Ps. 91:4—”He will cover you with his feathers, and under his wings you will find refuge”).
Anthropomorphites maintain their doctrine in defiance of verses, such as John 4:24, where Jesus teaches us: “God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” This means God has no body, because a spirit is, by nature, an incorporeal being. As Jesus tells us elsewhere, “a spirit has not flesh and bones” (Luke 24:39).
There is a big difference between being a spirit and having a spirit. Jesus says that the Father is a spirit, not that the Father has a spirit; this means that he lacks a body entirely.
The Church Fathers, of course, agreed, and loudly declared the fact that God is an unchangeable, immaterial spirit who has an entirely simple (“incomposite”) nature—that is, a nature containing no parts. Since all bodies extend through space and thus can be divided into parts, it is clear that God cannot have a body.
“What of Christ’s body?” you may ask. It is true that Jesus, who is God, assumed an earthly body when he was born of the Blessed Virgin, and that this body, now glorified, continues to exist. But since the Lord only took on human flesh in these “last days,” and since God has always existed, without beginning or end, we must still conclude that having a body is not part of God’s unchangeable nature: he exists in eternity as pure spirit, even though he chose for the Son to also take on a human nature in addition to his bodiless, timeless, divine nature.
Hi CA,
We do not have church fathers.
We have one teacher and a father in heaven.
The body of Christ is what you need to seek knowing catholicism is not that body.CA: I thought God dwelled in his Temple? Aren't we the temple of God now? Is not God/Spirit everywhere? There is no place where God is not! God is even in a non-believer, yet the non-believer cannot experience God's presence if he doesn't believe God is there! God has no body and is everybody. God is all that is. God is all and in all. God was, God is, God is being and God will be. Since God is indescribable I shall go no further attempting to describe the God I serve. Jesus said God is ONE!(John 17:11–:21–:23) Bless you, TK
Tk……….You have it right, GOD is SPIRIT problem here is most do not understand what SPIRIT IS. If we can only understand that GOD is the Mind itself the intellect lighting up our minds giving us the ability to reason and think. The Spirit from GOD is what enlightens every man coming into the world, it gives us our intellect. This intellect (spirit) is expressed by Words that come out of our mouths. That which a man eats does not defile the man, but that which proceeds out of his mouth (WORDS) that is what defiles the man because it proceeds forth from his heart, it is the Spirit (intellect) that is in the man . We are told to try the Spirits (intellects) to see if they are of God, all who have GOD'S Spirit in them can easily try the Spirits and Know if they are of GOD or NOT. Jesus said the (WORDS) I am telling you (ARE) Spirit and life. Spirit is carried about from one to another by (WORDS), words form thought and though animates our being it is who we are, “as a man thinks so he is”. Spirit does not have body it is what is in the body and controls it. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene
God has a body. I'm not a muslim, btw. We are made in the image of God, therefore we reflect who God is. Well we should, anyway.
Since we have bodies and are images of God, it would follow that God has a body. It seems odd that God would not have a body and yet we are his image and have bodies.
In Exodus 24 the elders and Moses saw God. They saw His feet. It does not say they saw something like his feet, for in verse 10 it says under his feet they saw something like a pavement made of sapphire. So the ground that God walked on looked like a sapphire pavement, although it was probably not made of sapphire. I would think that if it was something like feet, then Moses would have written that they say what looked like God's feet. In verse 11 it says, “But God did not raise his hand…” God has hands. He does not have “hand-like structures.”
Elsewhere in scripture, it says that God will put his enemies under His feet. Not under what appears to be His feet, or something that looks like feet.
God also has a heart: The law of his God is in his heart; his feet do not slip. Psalm 37:31
David did not write God has something like a heart and something like feet do not slip.And finally:
How beautiful on the mountains
are the feet of those who bring good news,
who proclaim peace,
who bring good tidings,
who proclaim salvation,
who say to Zion,
“Your God reigns!” Isaiah 52:73 different authors mention God's feet, and in fact God's feet make something beautiful. Now since our feet are dirty, it would suggest that God's feet are the lowest part of him but I'm not saying that He is our image. I point this out to show that even God's feet (since we consider our own feet are dirty but that's an extension of our fallen nature) are so amazing that he turns the ground into something like a sapphire pavement, and makes mountains beautiful. That's how incredible God is.
TK said:
Quote Jesus said God is ONE!(John 17:11–:21–:23) Bless you, TK TK,
Jesus did not say that God is one in the verses you give. He said “WE are one” referring to the Father and Himself.thinker
Quote (Tim Kraft @ Sep. 14 2009,22:18) CA: I thought God dwelled in his Temple? Aren't we the temple of God now? Is not God/Spirit everywhere? There is no place where God is not! God is even in a non-believer, yet the non-believer cannot experience God's presence if he doesn't believe God is there! God has no body and is everybody. God is all that is. God is all and in all. God was, God is, God is being and God will be. Since God is indescribable I shall go no further attempting to describe the God I serve. Jesus said God is ONE!(John 17:11–:21–:23) Bless you, TK
Huh?Quote (daretoshred @ Sep. 15 2009,03:21) God has a body. I'm not a muslim, btw. We are made in the image of God, therefore we reflect who God is. Well we should, anyway. Since we have bodies and are images of God, it would follow that God has a body. It seems odd that God would not have a body and yet we are his image and have bodies.
In Exodus 24 the elders and Moses saw God. They saw His feet. It does not say they saw something like his feet, for in verse 10 it says under his feet they saw something like a pavement made of sapphire. So the ground that God walked on looked like a sapphire pavement, although it was probably not made of sapphire. I would think that if it was something like feet, then Moses would have written that they say what looked like God's feet. In verse 11 it says, “But God did not raise his hand…” God has hands. He does not have “hand-like structures.”
Elsewhere in scripture, it says that God will put his enemies under His feet. Not under what appears to be His feet, or something that looks like feet.
God also has a heart: The law of his God is in his heart; his feet do not slip. Psalm 37:31
David did not write God has something like a heart and something like feet do not slip.And finally:
How beautiful on the mountains
are the feet of those who bring good news,
who proclaim peace,
who bring good tidings,
who proclaim salvation,
who say to Zion,
“Your God reigns!” Isaiah 52:73 different authors mention God's feet, and in fact God's feet make something beautiful. Now since our feet are dirty, it would suggest that God's feet are the lowest part of him but I'm not saying that He is our image. I point this out to show that even God's feet (since we consider our own feet are dirty but that's an extension of our fallen nature) are so amazing that he turns the ground into something like a sapphire pavement, and makes mountains beautiful. That's how incredible God is.
Does God have feathers too?“I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust. Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence. He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.”
Quote (daretoshred @ Sep. 15 2009,05:48) Yes, he has feathers. They're invisible though.
How do you know they are invisible?I'm kind of having a hard time taking you seriously. But if you are serious as a heart attack and not trying to tickle my funny bone, I'll address this.
Some Scriptures at times speak metaphorically or poetically using human expressions to communicate the infinite to the finite. Do you also believe that God has horns? (Ps. 18:2)
I was being facetious because I assumed you were being facetious.
The Psalms passage you mention is the only passage that mentions God having feathers. I agree it is a metaphor because earlier in the chapter it likens God to a fortress. Obviously, He is not a literal fortress.
However, in the Exodus passage, Moses writes that he and the 70 elders saw God's feet. It is a historical writing, Moses is writing as he saw it. There is nothing metaphoric or poetic about it. Plus, it is not the only passage that mentions that God has feet or hands or other things that people who are made in His image have.
Quote (daretoshred @ Sep. 15 2009,06:04) I was being facetious because I assumed you were being facetious. The Psalms passage you mention is the only passage that mentions God having feathers. I agree it is a metaphor because earlier in the chapter it likens God to a fortress. Obviously, He is not a literal fortress.
However, in the Exodus passage, Moses writes that he and the 70 elders saw God's feet. It is a historical writing, Moses is writing as he saw it. There is nothing metaphoric or poetic about it. Plus, it is not the only passage that mentions that God has feet or hands or other things that people who are made in His image have.
And yet we read:“No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” John 1:18
How do YOU reconcile this?
Exodus 33: 23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
Hi Eve,
God manifests in many ways even in His puny earthly creation.
But none have seen Him as He IS invisible spirit.Quote (eveh @ Sep. 15 2009,06:37) Exodus 33: 23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.
If you've seen my hand, have you seen me?Quote (CatholicApologist @ Sep. 15 2009,06:22) Quote (daretoshred @ Sep. 15 2009,06:04) I was being facetious because I assumed you were being facetious. The Psalms passage you mention is the only passage that mentions God having feathers. I agree it is a metaphor because earlier in the chapter it likens God to a fortress. Obviously, He is not a literal fortress.
However, in the Exodus passage, Moses writes that he and the 70 elders saw God's feet. It is a historical writing, Moses is writing as he saw it. There is nothing metaphoric or poetic about it. Plus, it is not the only passage that mentions that God has feet or hands or other things that people who are made in His image have.
And yet we read:“No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.” John 1:18
How do YOU reconcile this?
Moses writes that they saw God's feet. Not God. They saw His FEET.But,” he said, “you cannot see my face, for no one may see me and live.” – Exodus 33:20
When God says we cannot see Him, it means we cannot see Him face to face. Moses did not see God face to face. In verse 22: When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by.
God covers Moses with his hand to protect Moses from dying by seeing God's face! If God doesn't have a physical body, how can he cover Moses?
Later, in verse 23: Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen.”
This chapter again is not metaphorical in nature. It's historical. Moses does not see God face to face. He sees his back, he is covered by God's hand.
Just because we cannot see God's face does not mean he does not have one.
In Psalm 110:1, God says that Jesus will sit at His right hand. Jesus also says he will sit at God's right hand in Mark 14:62. If God has no body, then Jesus would ask, uh where do I sit? A secondary implication is that God has 2 hands just as he made us to have 2 hands. Otherwise, God would not need to say right hand.
Let me clarify though, when I say that God has a body, he has a glorified body. Not a body like we humans have, that are mere images of who He is.
Tatian the Syrian
“Our God has no introduction in time. He alone is without beginning, and is himself the beginning of all things. God is a spirit, not attending upon matter, but the maker of material spirits and of the appearances which are in matter. He is invisible, being himself the Father of both sensible and invisible things” (Address to the Greeks 4 [A.D. 170]).
Athenagoras
“I have sufficiently demonstrated that we are not atheists, since we acknowledge one God, unbegotten, eternal, invisible, incapable of being acted upon, incomprehensible, unbounded, who is known only by understanding and reason, who is encompassed by light and beauty and spirit and indescribable power, by whom all things, through his Word, have been produced and set in order and are kept in existence” (Plea for the Christians 10 [A.D. 177]).
Irenaeus
“Far removed is the Father of all from those things which operate among men, the affections and passions. He is simple, not composed of parts, without structure, altogether like and equal to himself alone. He is all mind, all spirit, all thought, all intelligence, all reason . . . all light, all fountain of every good, and this is the manner in which the religious and the pious are accustomed to speak of God” (Against Heresies 2:13:3 [A.D. 189]).
Clement of Alexandria
“The first substance is everything which subsists by itself, as a stone is called a substance. The second is a substance capable of increase, as a plant grows and decays. The third is animated and sentient substance, as animal, horse. The fourth is animate, sentient, rational substance, as man. Wherefore each one of us is made as consisting of all, having an immaterial soul and a mind, which is the image of God” (Fragment from On Providence [A.D. 200]).
“Being is in God. God is divine being, eternal and without beginning, incorporeal and illimitable, and the cause of what exists. Being is that which wholly subsists. Nature is the truth of things, or the inner reality of them. According to others, it is the production of what has come to existence; and according to others, again, it is the providence of God, causing the being, and the manner of being, in the things which are produced” (ibid.).
“What is God? ‘God,’ as the Lord says, ‘is a spirit.’ Now spirit is properly substance, incorporeal, and uncircumscribed. And that is incorporeal which does not consist of a body, or whose existence is not according to breadth, length, and depth. And that is uncircumscribed which has no place, which is wholly in all, and in each entire, and the same in itself” (ibid.).
“No one can rightly express him wholly. For on account of his greatness he is ranked as the All, and is the Father of the universe. Nor are any parts to be predicated of him. For the One is indivisible; wherefore also it is infinite, not considered with reference to inscrutability, but with reference to its being without dimensions, and not having a limit. And therefore it is without form” (Miscellanies 5:12 [A.D. 208]).
Origen
“Since our mind is in itself unable to behold God as he is, it knows the Father of the universe from the beauty of his works and from the elegance of his creatures. God, therefore, is not to be thought of as being either a body or as existing in a body, but as a simple intellectual being, admitting within himself no addition of any kind” (Fundamental Doctrines 1:1:6 [A.D. 225]).
“John says in the gospel, ‘No one has at any time seen God,’ clearly declaring to all who are able to understand, that there is no nature to which God is visible, not as if he were indeed visible by nature, and merely escaped or baffled the view of a frailer creature, but because he is by nature impossible to be seen” (ibid. 1:1:8).
Athanasius
“God, however, being without parts, is Father of the Son without division and without being acted upon. For neither is there an effluence from that which is incorporeal, nor is there anything flowering into him from without, as in the case of men. Being simple in nature, he is Father of one only Son” (Letter on the Council of Nicaea 11 [A.D. 350]).
Didymus the Blind
“God is simple and of an incomposite and spiritual nature, having neither ears nor organs of speech. A solitary essence and illimitable, he is composed of no numbers and parts” (The Holy Spirit 35 [A.D. 362]).
Hilary of Poitiers
“First it must be remembered that God is incorporeal. He does not consist of certain parts and distinct members, making up one body. For we read in the gospel that God is a spirit: invisible, therefore, and an eternal nature, immeasurable and self-sufficient. It is also written that a spirit does not have flesh and bones. For of these the members of a body consist, and of these the substance of God has no need. God, however, who is everywhere and in all things, is all-hearing, all-seeing, all-doing, and all-assisting” (Commentary on the Psalms 129[130]:3 [A.D. 365]).
Basil the Great
“The operations of God are various, but his essence is simple” (Letters 234:1 [A.D. 367]).
Ambrose of Milan
“God is of a simple nature, not conjoined nor composite. Nothing can be added to him. He has in his nature only what is divine, filling up everything, never himself confused with anything, penetrating everything, never himself being penetrated, everywhere complete, and present at the same time in heaven, on earth, and in the farthest reaches of the sea, incomprehensible to the sight” (The Faith 1:16:106 [A.D. 379]).
Evagrius of Pontus
“To those who accuse us of a doctrine of three gods, let it be stated that we confess one God, not in number but in nature. For all that is said to be one numerically is not one absolutely, nor is it simple in nature. It is universally confessed, however, that God is simple and not composite” (Dogmatic Letter on the Trinity 8:2 [A.D. 381]).
Gregory of Nyssa
“But there is neither nor ever shall be such a dogma in the Church of God that would prove the simple and incomposite [God] to be not only manifold and variegated, but even constructed from opposites. The simplicity of the dogmas of the truth proposes God as he is” (Against Eunomius 1:1:222 [A.D. 382]).
John Chrysostom
“[Paul] knows [God] in part. But he says, ‘in part,’ not because he knows God’s essence while something else of his essence he does not know; for God is simple. Rather, he says ‘in part’ because he knows that God exists, but what God is in his essence he does not know” (Against the Anomoians 1:5 [A.D. 386]).
“Why does John say, ‘No one has ever seen God’ [John 1:18]? So that you might learn that he is speaking about the perfect comprehension of God and about the precise knowledge of him. For that all those incidents [where people saw a vision of God] were condescensions and that none of those persons saw the pure essence of God is clear enough from the differences of what each did see. For God is simple and non-composite and without shape; but they all saw different shapes” (ibid., 4:3).
Augustine
“In created and changeable things what is not said according to substance can only be said according to accident. . . . In God, however, certainly there is nothing that is said according to accident, because in him there is nothing that is changeable, but neither is everything that is said of him according to substance” (The Trinity 5:5:6 [A.D. 408]).
Cyril of Alexandria
“We are not by nature simple; but the divine nature, perfectly simple and incomposite, has in itself the abundance of all perfection and is in need of nothing” (Dialogues on the Trinity 1 [A.D. 420]).
“The nature of the Godhead, which is simple and not composite, is never to be divided into two” (Treasury of the Holy Trinity 11 [A.D. 424]).
“When the divine Scripture presents sayings about God and remarks on corporeal parts, do not let the mind of those hearing it harbor thoughts of tangible things, but from those tangible things as if from things said figuratively let it ascend to the beauty of things intellectual, and rather than figures and quantity and circumscriptions and shapes and everything else that pertains to bodies, let it think on God, although he is above all understanding. We were speaking of him in a human way, for there is no other way in which we could think about the things that are above us” (Commentary on the Psalms 11[12]:3 [A.D. 429]).
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