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There is no evidence in Scripture that God reproduces after his kind
Hmmmm…..
The Son is the exact reproduction of the Father.Heb 1:3
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation (charaktér) of His nature…
Strong’s #5481-charaktér: a tool for engraving
Original Word: χαρακτήρ, ῆρος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: charaktér
Phonetic Spelling: (khar-ak-tare’)
Short Definition: an exact reproduction
Definition: an impression, representation, exact reproduction; a graving-tool.LU,
A reproduction if a famous painting does not even have to be in the same media. It is also not the same as a creature reproducing after its own kind.
“charaktér” is the ancestor of the English word character and in this case probably means much the same thing as Jesus has the exact characteristics of God’s nature as he wears the new man created like God in true righteousness and holiness and has always done so.
@kerwin
You try to hold so tightly to your own reasoning. I have shown you many things in scripture that show that Jesus is a son of God, the kind that is after the kind of the father’s kind. He is called the firstborn over all creation, and God connected that with the light of day one for me. He is called the only begotten son of God. Jesus said that He came out of God. He was the eternal life with the Father from the beginning. He is the wisdom of God that was possessed by God before creation. We see in scriptures that when Jesus refers to Himself as the Son of God and calls God His ‘Father’ the Pharisees wanted to stone Him for blasphemy which He was eventually crucified for. He claims to give eternal life. Peter identifies Him as the rock of offense and mentions the prophecy of the rock of offense in Isaiah who is called Jehovah of hosts. The Son is the great shepherd, the Word that was God in the beginning, with God. There are two persons who get acknowledged as having dominion over all creation for ever and ever and Jesus is one of the two. The Father calls Him ‘God’ and He is worshiped by many including his disciples and all the angels. The apostles became His bondservants and He is prayed to. The apostles believed in Him and spread His gospel to the nations and even died for Him for the most part. They ask for supernatural help in Jesus’ name and on and on…I have seen different interpretations of what is meant by the ‘son of God’ in regards to Jesus here at Heaven Net. I believe He is the authentic, real deal son after the same kind as the Father…a part of the Father, the eternal offspring part. You don’t and I am convinced that more debate will not change that…only a fresh revelation from God will change your heart about Him. So, I leave you at your pursuit and hope my time spent here with you gives you cause to lay down your engrained beliefs long enough to be open to God giving you a fresh revelation of His Son.
The truth of the matter is that you don’t believe that the Yahweh of hosts from 1 Peter 2 came in the flesh and I do because I believe that the Yahweh of hosts that Yahweh speaks of being a sanctuary for some and for others a stone for stumbling over has become flesh and was given the name Yehoshua meaning “Yahweh saves.”
So when the Bible says that the spirit of the antichrist will not be able to say that Jesus has come in the flesh, I believe that is with the understanding that Jesus, the Jehovah of hosts from Isaiah 8:13 came in the flesh. That is the common confession of the established church and I am in unity with them. Heck, the pharisees knew that the man called Jesus was in the flesh. It has to have more meaning than Jesus had flesh.
I pray that you can see this someday, kerwin. You are a nice man. God bless!
LU,
You try to hold so tightly to your own reasoning.
I could say the same with you except some of your beliefs are not based on the evidence of Scripture. I have challenged you and a number of times you have failed to produce any Scriptures. There is nowhere in Scripture states that God sired Jesus, as of the body as Scripture explicitly states Jesus is the Son of David, as of the flesh.
LU,
John 20:17Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.
According to you God is Jesus’ Father because Jesus is the same kind as him. So since Jesus calls God his Father as well as the Father of his brethren then it follows according to your own reasoning that they are also of the same kind as God.
According to me they are brethren through the Spirit of God.
you said:
According to you God is Jesus’ Father because Jesus is the same kind as him.
I wouldn’t say it like that exactly. I would say it this way:
Jesus is God’s only authentic son which would naturally make Him of the same kind as His father. Being the ONLY authentic son sets Him apart from all others that are called sons of God who aren’t sons of the same kind of being as the Father.you also said:
I could say the same with you except some of your beliefs are not based on the evidence of Scripture.
So obviously, one or both of us are wrong. We can’t be both in the truth here…would you agree? Of course, I disagree that my beliefs are not based on scripture. I have or can back up my beliefs with scripture, it is just that you do not accept my understanding of those scriptures and that is why I say that you need a fresh revelation from God if what I understand is true because you should not take my word for it. I just hope you have been shown that there are other ways of understanding the same passages and that understanding can be supported.
For instance, you said: “There is nowhere in Scripture states that God sired Jesus, as of the body as Scripture explicitly states Jesus is the Son of David, as of the flesh.”
My response to that is going to be a parable showing the difference between the men who serve and the authentic son who serves. Jesus is the Son, the others that were sent were servants probably referring to the prophets.
Mark 12:1And he began to speak unto them by parables. A certain man planted a vineyard, and set an hedge about it, and digged a place for the winefat, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country. 2And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruit of the vineyard. 3And they caught him, and beat him, and sent him away empty. 4And again he sent unto them another servant; and at him they cast stones, and wounded him in the head, and sent him away shamefully handled. 5And again he sent another; and him they killed, and many others; beating some, and killing some. 6Having yet therefore one son, his wellbeloved, he sent him also last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son. 7But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours. 8And they took him, and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard. 9What shall therefore the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
10And have ye not read this scripture; The stone which the builders rejected is become the head of the corner:
11This was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
12And they sought to lay hold on him, but feared the people: for they knew that he had spoken the parable against them: and they left him, and went their way.
Only one who was sent was the beloved only son in this parable, not all that were sent were sons although they served the owner of the vineyard and even some died in their service to the owner of the vineyard.
It seems that you believe all were sons and that the one sent last was chosen to be the favored and most righteous son but that is not at all the truth. The last one sent was an actual authentic son and the only son at that. The difference in those sent was not who was most righteous but who was an actual son and natural born heir. Also, notice that the son was the cornerstone, the head of the corner in other words. All the others who were sent were rejected stones in a sense but only one of the rejected ‘stones’ was the cornerstone. The cornerstone who is Jehovah of host from Isaiah 8:13 is identified as Jesus by Peter himself as inspired by the Holy Spirit in 1 Peter 2.
LU,
wouldn’t say it like that exactly. I would say it this way:
Jesus is God’s only authentic son which would naturally make Him of the same kind as His father. Being the ONLY authentic son sets Him apart from all others that are called sons of God who aren’t sons of the same kind of being as the Father.In John 20:17 Jesus established:
1) Jesus considered his disciples brethren.
2) Jesus called his God his Father
3) Jesus called his disciples God their Father and he revealed no difference between the titles when applied to him and when applied to the disciples.In regards to point three you see a difference. I do see a difference as well but not what you say, The disciples would be adopted by being reborn of spirit through receiving the Spirit and Jesus received the Spirit to become a natural child of God’s spirit.
His body is already the descendant of David and therefore cannot be God kind. So all that is left is the spirit and soul.
LU,
Jesus chose not to call the workmen sons for his own reasons but he also chose not to have the son they put to death resurrected. Elsewhere in Scripture Jesus calls the loyal workmen his brothers by the disobedient ones he states are the sons of Satan.
The disciples called Jesus, Lord and God. Jesus never called them that. Factor that in. God also called Him ‘God.’
I’m glad that you see Him as your brother because that is a big part of the gospel…Him as a heavenly being and then becoming flesh is a huge part of the plan. You miss Him as the heavenly being that came in the flesh and you cannot admit that Jesus has come in the flesh with that understanding. How exactly do you understand what the spirit of the antichrist is when defined as it causes someone to not be able to say that Jesus has come in the flesh? Why do you think the Pharisees couldn’t say that when they clearly acknowledged him as a man and not a spirit walking among them. Or do you think they could say that?
1 John 4:2
Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God
LU,
The disciples called Jesus, Lord and God
Actually not.
John 20:28Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
You have been taught to assume these words mean that Thomas is addressing Jesus as my Lord and my God when he is answering Jesus’ words in the previous verse.
John 20:27Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
In short Thomas is making an expression of faith like saying God is Good. Notice he did not say you are my Lord and my God. Peter earlier called Jesus the Messiah, the Son of the Living God.
Matthew 16:16Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
See the words “thou art”.
An address is more like when you start a prayer or a letter. What Thomas said was a response that expressed belief that Jesus Christ has risen from the grave.
LU,
God is known to call human beings God. Translators try not to capitalize it when it occurs except when they believe it is in reference to Jesus. Some deny that he calls humans but the experts seem to be in agreement.
LU,
Why do you think the Pharisees couldn’t say that when they clearly acknowledged him as a man and not a spirit walking among them. Or do you think they could say that?
Those Pharisees that did not believe denied Jesus was the Messiah and therefore denied Jesus the Messiah came in the flesh. You on the other hand do not truly believe he is the Messiah because you do not believe he is the Son of David. You instead try to stand on the wall and claim that David and God sired his body and that therefore he has two bodies. God is Spirit and he desires those that worship him in Spirit; such are his children.
Kerwin…..when s ripture says you are Gods, that is meant to be in a possessive sense, he was not actually calling them Gods themselves, but GODS POSSESIONS. Remember JESUS clarly said “FOR THOU ART THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD . OBVISELY that is saying there are no other true Gods, right?
Peace and love to you and yours……………..gene
Gene,
God calls those he gave the Law to God’s because he credited them with being his children. In calling them his sons he elevated them above their fellow man though still lower than angels whom he also called gods. In short god = child of God.
Psalm 82:6Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
6 I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the most High.He calls them his children here
Deuteronomy 14:1Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
14 Ye are the children of the Lord your God: ye shall not cut yourselves, nor make any baldness between your eyes for the dead.
He literally calls them gods here but many find it hard to understand:
Deuteronomy 10:17Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:
This is why I know he is calling them gods.
Deuteronomy 10:15-16Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
15 Only the Lord had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, even you above all people, as it is this day. 16 Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
To both sum and paraphrase his words he is saying I am your Father therefore be my children.
God is the archetype and his children are formed in his image therefore they are gods.
@kerwin
you said:In short god = child of God
Well, I totally disagree with your equation there!
Please answer each question:
1. Based on what you claim, do you refer to Jesus as god?
2. Is Baal a child of God because he is a god to some?
3. Are Jesus’ brethren all children of God? Where does Jesus call His brethren “god/gods?”Kerwin …..all what you posted is given in a possessive sense ,were are GOD’S BECAUSE WE BELONG TO HIM. There is no lower case gods, later translators made that happen, because in original scriptures all letters were written in upper case lettering. If we are God’s childern then we belong to him in a possessive sense.
Jesus and the LORD OUR ONLY GOD HIMSELF SAID CLEARLY THAT YAHWEH or the LORD, WAS THE “ONLY” TRUE GOD, that means there are no other “true” God’s in any sense of the word GOD, UPPER OR LOWER CASE MAKES NO DIFFERENCE. IMO
peace and love to you and yours. …………gene
@kerwin
you said:His body is already the descendant of David and therefore cannot be God kind. So all that is left is the spirit and soul.
Why do you believe that a heavenly being cannot supernaturally become flesh if it is God’s purpose?
LU,
Why do you believe that a heavenly being cannot supernaturally become flesh if it is God’s purpose?
I am not speaking of what is possible but I am speaking about what is. Jesus’ body descended from David’s or is would not be made from his Seed.
We are not speaking about a “supernatural” being becoming flesh we are asking if the body of a “supernatural” being became flesh. A “supernatural” body did not become a flesh body that was made from the seed of David because that is claiming the body was made twice.
You could claim that a “supernatural” being came in a body made from the seed of David but that too is flawed reasoning as Scripture literally declares Jesus Christ is a man so it is the man Jesus Christ who came in the flesh.
Gene,
There is no lower case gods, later translators made that happen, because in original scriptures all letters were written in upper case lettering
Yes, the word god has more than one meaning; as is common with human words. I well realize that gods when referring to human beings does not mean they are the same kind or even a similar to God. All it is saying is that the those that received the Law were credited to be like God in true righteousness and holiness. I thought I made that clear in what I wrote. It also seems clear in Scripture that is the meaning they use. I believe it is more Godlike than God’s possessions though both apply.
@kerwin
Do you anticipate your mortal body to be changed into an immortal body but still ‘house’ your person after you die?
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