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@NickHassan
Do you have a specific thing you want to show me in scripture that does not line up with what I am saying here that is something based on scripture and not the opinion of Nick? Are your opinions rooted in the truth, if so, it should be apparent in your challenge. I have not seem much besides a critical spirit in your comments and therefore there can be no truth until that is dealt with. Take some time and replace your critical spirit with a spirit of love, grace and truth. Then bring your concerns.Nick….where do you get the those restrictions were imposed on all man kind, it was not imposed on all man kind untill after the sin of ADAM AND EVE, i have shown you before that even after they sinned they could have lived and never died if God did not remove them from getting access of the tree of life. Nick these restructions came later after sin emerged.
As things kept gettibg worse God even further shortened there lives, froom 1000 years to 125 years, Gen 6:5, after destroying all flesh off the earth except for Noah and his family.
Gen 8:21……And the LORD smelled a sweet savior; and the LORD said in his heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man’s sake;(why) because the imagination of man’s heart is evil from his youth; neither will I smite any more every thing living, as I have done. V22, While the earth remains, seed time and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, SHALL NOT CEASE. Read also Gen 9:15 GOD WILL NEVER AGAIN DESTORY ALL FLESH.
peace and love to you and yours. ……………gene
LU,
Can Jesus be human if he didn’t have the ability to lust because He was filled with perfect love, grace and truth? There is no room for sin if one is filled with perfect love, grace and truth. That doesn’t mean someone couldn’t try to tempt Him to give place to sin…in fact many did including the devil. Jesus never gave sin a place for the seed of sin to rest, He could have but He remained filled.
Jesus had the flesh nature but consistently chose not to live but instead lived by the Spirit. That is why he said:
John 16:33Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.
John said these things
1 John 5:4Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1 John 5:5Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
These words of John’s I saved for last because they tie into what you quoted from the same chapter.
1 John 4:4-7Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
Jesus did not sin though tempted as his brothers and so so revealed himself to be a son and God chose to elevate him above even the angels and so made him his chief son as well as the greatest of humans. He never sinned and therefore he did nbt need to be adopted by God as his brother humans do.
@kerwin
Luke 1:30The angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary; for you have found favor with God. 31“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name Him Jesus. 32“He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David; 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and His kingdom will have no end.” 34Mary said to the angel, “How can this be, since I am a virgin?” 35The angel answered and said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; and for that reason the holy Child shall be called the Son of God.
Btw, you do not have to persuade me that Jesus was a man, I agree. He was also an entirely different type of living being in the heavenlies before He became a man. In both types, He could not be persuaded to sin even though He was tempted in every way as common to man from outside sources, not from within. He overcame those temptations that others were trying to entice Him with. He was the Son of God, even in the flesh long before He was tempted…He was the Son of God and Son of David, according to the flesh at the moment of conception in Mary.LU,
He was tempted in every way as common to man from outside sources, not from within.
That is not what is written.
What is written is that “but every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed” so unless you want to claim Jesus was not a human as Scripture declares then he also was tempted in the same was but did not give in showing that by faith a human being can overcome the world.
Eve is not Adam and the Son is not the Father. Eve and Adam are however the same kind of being, human being. The Father and Son are the same kind of being, eternal being.
Yes, the Father is God and he is divine. And Jesus existed in the form of God. I have always taught that here. God is the Father and he has a son which means it is obvious that he is the same kind.
But God is not the same being as Jesus. Maybe the same kind as you said in your quote, or in the least in his likeness, but not the same being. Adam and Eve were not the same being either right, but the same kind for sure. So we have God and the son of God. We have Adam and Eve. That is two and one of them is God in the first group and one was Adam in the latter.
You say that you have shown me scriptures. What you have shown me is scriptures that you twist to for your own means.
For US, there is one God the Father and one Lord, the Lord Jesus Christ. Not for you right because for you believe that two are the same being.
@kerwin,
Perhaps this will explain it better than I can:For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted,…. By Satan, at his entrance on his public ministry, and a little before his death; which was done, not by stirring up sin in him, for he had none, nor by putting any into him, which could not be done, nor could Satan get any advantage over him; he solicited him one thing and another, but in vain; though these temptations were very troublesome, and disagreeable, and abhorrent to the pure and holy nature of Christ, and so must be reckoned among his sufferings, or things by which he suffered: and as afflictions are sometimes called temptations, in this sense also Christ suffered, being tempted, with outward poverty and meanness, with slight and neglect from his own relations, and with a general contempt and reproach among men: he was often tempted by the Jews with ensnaring questions; he was deserted by his followers, by his own disciples, yea, by his God and Father; all which were great trials to him, and must be accounted as sufferings: and he also endured great pains of body, and anguish of mind, and at last death itself.
And so he is able to succour them that are tempted; as all the saints, more or less, are, both with Satan’s temptations, and with afflictions in the world, which God suffers to befall them, on various accounts; partly on his own account, to show his grace, power, and faithfulness in supporting under them, and in delivering out of them; and partly on his Son’s account, that they might be like unto him, and he may have an opportunity of succouring them, and sympathizing with them; and also on their own account, to humble them, to try their faith, to excite them to prayer and watchfulness, and to keep them dependent on the power and grace of God: and these Christ succours, by having and showing a fellow feeling with them; by praying for them; by supporting them under temptations; by rebuking the tempter, and delivering out of them: and all this he is able to do; he must be able to succour them as he is God; and his conquering Satan is a convincing evidence to the saints of his ability; but here it intends his qualification, and fitness, and readiness to help in such circumstances, from the experience he himself has had of these things.
Gill’s Exposition of the Entire Bible
http://biblehub.com/hebrews/4-15.htm@t8
I have never said they are the same being. I have said they are the same type of being, eternal being. You misunderstand.LU,
Gill just says things with not support at time and there is no way that I can find out where he gets his support as I cannot cross examine him. For instance Gill claims ” By Satan, at his entrance on his public ministry, and a little before his death; which was done” and yet Scripture says:
Luke 4:13New English Translation (NET Bible)
13 So when the devil had completed every temptation, he departed from him until a more opportune time.
So what we know from Scripture is that Gill is correct in the first part of what he said but we have no idea about any other time Jesus was tempted because we do not know what times Satan found opportune to to tempt Jesus because Scripture does not tell us. The other time Gill mentions is “and a little before his death” which I assume means when Jesus said “Yet not what I will, but what you will” , Matthew 14:36 which goes against the idea that Jesus did not have a part that caused him to be tempted or he would not have said “Yet not what I will”.
Paul speaks about this same type of struggle in chapter 7 of Romans with these words.
Romans 7:13-17New English Translation (NET Bible)
13 Did that which is good, then, become death to me? Absolutely not! But sin, so that it would be shown to be sin, produced death in me through what is good, so that through the commandment sin would become utterly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual—but I am unspiritual, sold into slavery to sin. 15 For I don’t understand what I am doing. For I do not do what I want—instead, I do what I hate. 16 But if I do what I don’t want, I agree that the law is good. 17 But now it is no longer me doing it, but sin that lives in me.
Paul later claims that he rescued from loosing such struggles by Jesus Christ. Jesus did not have himself but overcame by his faith in God alone. We are to follow him and how could we follow anyone that has not gone the same struggles and triumphed over them.
There is every reason to believe that like his sibling Jesus is not an exception to the rule found in Scripture that goes:
James 1:14New English Translation (NET Bible)
14 But each one is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desires.
Desires can be good or bad. Jesus was filled with good desires and was encouraged to give birth to those good desires which produced good fruit. He did not have bad desires which when encouraged, give birth to sin. Fulfilling God given good desires is possible and righteous as a human and is what Jesus did. He never had any bad desires. Even in the garden, His desire was still to redeem mankind but was wondering if there were another way to do it that would please His Father. If not, He was willing to follow the path of great suffering because His desire was to redeem man in the way pleasing to the Father. His desire was always to please the Father…nothing less. He had no evil desires, no evil impulses, not because He was not human after His conception in Mary, but because He was never less than perfect love, grace and truth. He could have chosen to give place to sin but didn’t. As the pre-existent Lord and as the Lord in the flesh, He consistently had perfect love, grace and truth and wisdom to know the difference.
He is the vine, we are the branches. I suppose you accept that. Why do you not wonder how we can relate to Him if He is not a branch like us?
LU,
Desires can be good or bad. Jesus was filled with good desires and was encouraged to give birth to those good desires which produced good fruit. He did not have bad desires which when encouraged, give birth to sin.
I does not say that in Scripture that is a man made teaching that serves to excuse the sins of its hearers. Those are the sins Jesus came to save us from. That is why it is written:
Matthew 1:21New English Translation (NET Bible)
21 She will give birth to a son and you will name him Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins.”
You read that Jesus said not as I will but as you will. If his will is filled with good desires then there would be no reason for him to say “not as I will”. He realized that the will he saw with his mind that the his will which he saw active in his body fell short of God’s glory and those chose to follow God’s will instead. He did this by the power of the Holy Spirit by which God lived in him. That is why he claimed God was in him and he was in God.
Paul in Romans 7 speaks of a time he had not yet received the Spirit and so was powerless against the will of his flesh even though in his mind he hungered and thirsted to be righteous and holy even as God is. James teaches it is by the the will of our selves(flesh) that we are lured and enticed by Satan’s temptation.
Note: I use flesh to mean animal nature and not to mean physical flesh of humans. Angels whom do not have human flesh were sinned and fell from grace because they relied on their own bestial nature and not on the Spirit of God.
LU,
Jesus is the vine we are the branches just as you say. Branches are broken of because they die for lack of faith. Both the branches and vine live by faith for the righteous live by faith. We the follow Jesus and he is not a follower of himself but he is the Pioneer of our faith. We receive of God by faith that he the Promised One but it was put on him because he was chosen and God takes pleasure in him, Isaiah 42:1.
Remember when the angel came to Mary and told her that her child to be born “would be called the Son of God”. Please notice the angel did not claim Jesus was the Son of the Most High at that time but instead stated at some future date Jesus would be called the Son of God even though at that time God knew Jesus for he knows each of us before we are formed in our mother’s womb. God had spoken of Jesus many years before the angel’s visit, and Isaiah to whom he spoke wrote those words down for us to read today.
@kerwin,
Jesus did not have an evil desire ever even when He asked for another way to redeem man while being deeply grieved and asking the Father for the ‘cup’ to be removed. He simply wanted to know if there were any other way to please the Father and redeem man. That is not evil, it is communication, negotiation. He always wanted the redemption of mankind and to do what it took. Being deeply grieved was not evil, it was honest human emotion in response to what was about to take place. Please note that the Holy Spirit is even grieved at times too…it is not a sinful thing to feel grieved.Jesus did not have a depraved mind…not one little bit depraved. Man was not created with a depraved mind but man’s free will gave place to sin which brought the condition of a depraved mind to all mankind. This depraved condition is transferred to man by the father, not the mother, btw. Jesus was not conceived with the seed of man.
@kerwin,
Jesus was already the Son of God and someday He was to be acknowledged so by man. Man’s acknowledgement does not make Him the Son of God.We sure do read the same words with a different perspective, kerwin!
@kerwin,
you said:We receive of God by faith that he the Promised One but it was put on him because he was chosen and God takes pleasure in him
His ‘sonship’ was not ‘put on Him.’ His position as the Messiah was put on him…He was always possessed by the Father as His very own son, but the plan of the Son becoming also the Messiah, was appointed from the foundation of the world.
Hi LU,
Indeed the plan was there from the beginning. The Word would become flesh.
Jesus, son of Mary, was the chosen vessel for the plan.
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