Do spirits have bodies?

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January 15, 2011 at 10:35 pm#233315

Participant

Mike………… In the first place who ask you to do anything for me I sure did not. Interesting Jesus said he was not a Spirit as they supposed him to be and Said a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as he had , but you say he was a spirit and then twist thing up by say i am the one not addressing scripture , You are Joke at best, IMO. So please don't address me I will believe what Jesus said about His self and showed others also, that works for me. IMO

peace and love…………………………………gene

January 15, 2011 at 10:51 pm#233317

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2011,08:35)

Interesting Jesus said he was not a Spirit as they supposed him to be and Said a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as he had

Hmmmmm………so what does that teach us, Gene? That AT THAT TIME, Jesus was NOT a spirit, right?

But why do you stop there? Why not continue to believe the other scriptures that were written after he ascended to heaven?

Why do you blow off the one about flesh not being able to enter heaven?

Why do you blow off the ones where it says Jesus is NOT a man anymore?

Why do you blow off the ones where it says Jesus is now a SPIRIT?

It is the same thing you do with the pre-existent topic. You only accept the scriptures that fit AROUND YOUR MIND and ignore the rest. That's backwards, man. You should fit your mind AROUND THE SCRIPTURES………..ALL OF THEM!

mike

January 16, 2011 at 12:20 pm#233353

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Mike…………..Just like you preexistence Morphed theory that Jesus was morphed into a human being but was a “SPIRIT” before right and then Morphed into a human , so now you try to twist scripture to say He was Morphed Back from a flesh and bone person to a SPIRIT again. PURE GARBAGE YOU NOR NO ONE ELSE CAN PRODUCE ONE SCRIPTURE THAT SAY JESUS WAS “CHANGED” AFTER HIS RESURRECTION TO ANYTHING. When Jesus told Mary to not touch him because he had not assented to his father , then latter had his disciples touch him to prove he was flesh and bone and alive again, that was after he ascended and returned right?, so was he switching between flesh and bone to spirit and then back to flesh and bone , and when he comes will he be a “invisible Spirit” of some kind or will he still be flesh and bone. Bottom line is Mike you have no idea what you are talking about and trying to make it appear that i don't is your way of distorting the truth. While Jesus has Life giving Spirit (IN) Him he himself certainly is not a Spirit of any kind AS HE SAID HE WAS NOT> But then if you understood what a SPIRIT IS YOU WOULD NOT HAVE ANY PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING THIS. IMO

gene

January 16, 2011 at 3:42 pm#233359

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2011,22:20)

PURE GARBAGE YOU NOR NO ONE ELSE CAN PRODUCE ONE SCRIPTURE THAT SAY JESUS WAS “CHANGED” AFTER HIS RESURRECTION TO ANYTHING.

You mean like you can't produce a scripture that says Jesus will return as flesh? I at least have scriptures that say flesh cannot be in heaven and that Jesus is not a man anymore, but a spirit. What do YOU have?

You see, I'm putting together the puzzle using ALL the pieces. If Jesus was flesh after he was raised from the dead, and flesh cannot enter heaven, and Jesus IS in heaven, what other option is there?

Gene, why don't you answer to the scriptures I gave you? Why must you always post diatribes about “morphed” and “antichrists” and such? I gave you 6 different scriptures that explain how things must be in this case. Why don't you refute them instead of just posting the same tired stuff?

Here, start with Galatians 1:1. How can Jesus still be a man when Paul says he was sent, NOT BY ANY MAN, but by Jesus?

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2011,22:20)

When Jesus told Mary to not touch him because he had not assented to his father , then latter had his disciples touch him to prove he was flesh and bone and alive again, that was after he ascended and returned right?,

No Gene…………wrong. Jesus remained on earth as flesh for 40 days and visited many disciples before ascending to heaven. He wasn't going back and forth between heaven and earth, at least not according to scripture.

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2011,22:20)

Bottom line is Mike you have no idea what you are talking about and trying to make it appear that i don't is your way of distorting the truth.

I'm posting scriptures to back up what I say………are you?

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 16 2011,22:20)

While Jesus has Life giving Spirit (IN) Him he himself certainly is not a Spirit of any kind AS HE SAID HE WAS NOT>

Oh, that's right – you ARE posting scriptures. But only the ones that conform to your own understanding. And when they don't, you add or change the wording until they do.

Gene, did Jesus say he was not a spirit after he ascended to heaven? Where? Can't you see you're doing the same thing here as you do with John 1:18? 1:18 says the Word BECAME flesh, but you insist it must mean “came to be IN someone who was flesh”. But that's not what the scripture says, is it?

And now you are changing another one. The scripture says in effect, “Jesus BECAME a life giving spirit”, yet you want it to say “Jesus came to have a life giving spirit IN him”. Sorry Gene. I will believe what the scriptures actually say over your added word interpretation of them every time.

Gene, explain what Paul was saying in Gal 1:1 and 1:12 for me please.

mike

January 16, 2011 at 4:50 pm#233364

Istari

Participant

Mikeboll64,

Have you been sent to this forum to test the Spirit of truth?

You say, 'Istari, you know nothing more about Dimensions than anyone else'

Mikeboll64, not only is that a very stupid and ignorant statement but it is also dialogically incorrect:
I did not say that I knew more about Dimensions than anyone else. You display amazing levels of childish intelligence it is amazing if you don't have 'left' and 'right' written on your socks and shoes to prove which goes where?
You don't know anything about Dimensions yet you can claim things about others who do.
Certainly I do know more than you, but even so, I DID NOT SAY SO. I asked if you did know anything. Please apologise for this error on your part, thank you.

And then, to compound your lack of understanding, even of the Scriptures: Satan was not Thrown out of Heaven until Jesus overcame Sin and was glorified by God: 'Woe to the earth, for the God of this system of things has come down to you' (or some such) and, 'I saw Satan fall like lightening from Heaven'.
This was said by Jesus, and when? So, Mikeboll64, how was Satan thrown out if Heaven if he was already thrown out?
No, it is because you lack wisdom and spiritual understanding.

The sinful angels were not thrown out until…the Demon Angels were the ones who LEFT THEIR STATIONS in the days of Noah. They, even they, were still only thrown down to the fifth dimension.
You cannot have read and understood anything I have said before, why, why Mikeboll64, are you trying so hard to invent your own ideas?
The Demon Angels cannot rise to any higher dimensions nor go lower into the physical dimension. They cannot create their own bodies so they enter into human bodies. They can only do so by INVITATION from the host spirit. Hence the dangers of SEANCES, OUIJEE BOARDS, SPIRITISM and other such mechanisms (It is interesting to see that it is mainly Females who indulge in such activities, being more easily susceptible to the subtle wiles of Satan)

Q: How many radio stations can you receive on that Pinhead Radio?
A: As many as can be transmitted, i.e. Legions…

Why, because radio waves are bodiless elements and do not require physical space in order to exist.

Mikeboll64, why are you fighting simple infant school physics?

Satan and the wicked Spirit Angels are NOT IN the physical dimensions because they are still Spirits.

Mikeboll64, do you know that you and your students are the ONLY PERSON ON EARTH or IN HEAVEN who think that Spirits have bodies? Not one single other person speaks of or mentions Spirits with bodies…and all this because you think you can win a winless point against JustAskin?
Mikeboll64, step off!! Stop trying to compete with Truth!

And your sneaky ways of encompassing the truth in your posts has not gone unnoticed. You are only saved by the amnesia that many here seem to possess.
Shimmer posted something about seekers of scriptural truth who, no longer how much they learn, never come to the understanding of that truth because it is the earthly fleshly values that they seek. You, Mikeboll64, are such a one. If you sought the Spiritual values then things would be easier for you to see…look with Spiritual eyes, understand with a Spiritual mind, live in the Spiritual body.

Mikeboll64, I hear you like puzzles, here is one for you:
A + B = C
C + D = X

If A = 3 and B = 4 and X = 10, what is the value of D?

And, is the first 'C' the same as the second 'C'?
And, if the value 'A' is the same as 'D' then could 'A' be the same object as 'D'?
In other words, could you substitute 'A' for 'D'?

Mikeboll64, do you understand what was just suggested to you?

January 16, 2011 at 6:06 pm#233369

mikeboll64

Blocked

Hi Istari,

It is always a pleasure to engage one who has such nice things to say about others. You are as respectful as your friend JA, who apparently could not answer the questions I was asking him, and so ran away and hid from sight.

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,02:50)

I did not say that I knew more about Dimensions than anyone else.

Good. Because you know as much about the “fifth dimension” as my 9 year old son knows………..nothing. So maybe you should add “IMO” or something at the end of your rant, so we don't get the idea that you're claiming to really KNOW the stuff you're only guessing at.

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,02:50)

The sinful angels were not thrown out until…the Demon Angels were the ones who LEFT THEIR STATIONS in the days of Noah. They, even they, were still only thrown down to the fifth dimension.

I'm sorry…………where was that in scripture again?

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,02:50)

The Demon Angels cannot rise to any higher dimensions nor go lower into the physical dimension. They cannot create their own bodies so they enter into human bodies. They can only do so by INVITATION from the host spirit.

Again………….SCRIPTURE PLEASE?

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,02:50)

Satan and the wicked Spirit Angels are NOT IN the physical dimensions because they are still Spirits.

And as such, they are “everywhere all the time” according to you, right? So why aren't they in heaven? Oh, because heaven is in a “higher dimension”, right?

Okay, let's forget about Satan being throw out of heaven. Deal with this one:

Job 1 NIV
6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Satan answered the LORD, “From roaming throughout the earth, going back and forth on it.”

Istari, what does this mean? Satan was apparently still allowed to exist in the “higher dimensions” and be in the presence of YHVH at this time, right? And, according to you, he would have been “everywhere all the time” at that point, right? So how is it that YHVH asks him WHERE HE CAME FROM?

How could Satan have:

A. Been OUT OF THE PRESENCE of YHVH in the first place if he was “everywhere all the time”?

B. Come FROM anywhere, if he is “everywhere all the time”?

C. Said he was ON THE EARTH, as opposed to hanging out in heaven, if he is “everywhere all the time”?

And what does it mean by “the angels CAME to PRESENT THEMSELVES BEFORE YVHV”? If they are “everywhere all the time”, then they would have already BEEN in the presence of YHVH, and would not have had to “COME INTO HIS PRESENCE”, right?

Istari, you are doing better than your freind JA, for you at least attempt to answer my points. But I'm having trouble with your answer to what separates one angel from another. You say they are spirits, and have no need for any physical separation. Yet you also say that all of them (billions, presumably) are “everywhere all the time”. How can that be? If they are ALL “everywhere”, then there is not separate beings, but only one being made up of the conglomeration of the billions of angels.

Don't you think there has to be something that separates one from the others and keeps each one as a distinct individual being?

peace and love and my God bless you,
mike

January 17, 2011 at 12:06 am#233387

Istari

Participant

T8,
Can I call Mikeboll64 a lunatic.

T8, is this person one whom you choose for a Moderator?

T8, is this your representative in this forum, one whom you entrust your powers to?

January 17, 2011 at 12:41 am#233390

Istari

Participant

Mikeboll64,
You blocked JustAskin from posting and then say JustAskin ran away from your questions?
You really are a nasty piece of work!

You know nothing about dimensions but yet yak on as if you are a master. You know nothing of value concerning the aspect of Spiritualness, yet you deny all the authority of one who does.

How can you be a moderator? How can you adjudicate between one who is right and one who is wrong when there is no truth in you?

You know very well that book of Job is allegorical yet you use it as Scriptural example. How sad for your mind to have to exist alongside such a satanic spirit!

You are trying your mightiest to not see truth?
Who is it that denies truth but the one who is united with the father of lies!

even as I explain Dimension to you, you claim that it is me that does not understand? How mad is that? You are simply using WJ and KJj as your yardstick for ungodly thoughts. The three of you are ONE.

Once again, three kings, three kings of Spiritual treachery!

Satan is influencing people worldwide day and night, every minute, every second, every moment.

Mikeboll64, I asked how you could talk to you friend thousand of miles apart, Skype them, email, text them, videolink, many friends, all at the same time, but only in Spirit.

See, Mikeboll64, how could you be talking to them all at the same time all in different places in the fourth dimension? You would have to be physically there with each one…not possible! Yet, in the Spirit, you can.

And where is your 'Body' for each one of them? NoMikeboll64, no body, just Spirit!!

Don't talk about your physical body as you are. Remember, this is Spirit we talking about and you are on earth, in the material realm. The comparison is with Spirit in the immaterial realm.

Mikeboll64, your struggle with truth? What are you after? Why do you lie to yourself? The pieces can never fit, so what is the point?

You say you use the pieces from Scriptures to put the puzzle together? No Mikeboll64, what you do is Reshape the puzzle pieces to fit where you want them to fit and then claim profane righteousness!

In fact, I've never seen you write anything that was Scripturally correct that was from your own Scriptural understanding. You have always had to be forced into the understanding after many many pages of warped ideas and thoughts lifted up through the deep deep well of deceit that you have dug over years to help get you out of sticky situations.

January 17, 2011 at 1:07 am#233392

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,10:41)

You blocked JustAskin from posting and then say JustAskin ran away from your questions?

JA had his tiles removed within one week of being blocked. In fact you yourself made a jab about it, remember? You implied that the one who blocked him and then lost his job over it must feel like a joke – or something like that. But who had the last laugh? Here I am with my job reinstated and here you are with two brand new tiles. Hmmmmm………….

Maybe you should just be more respectful of others. Did you ever think of that? By the way, when a “lunatic” calls someone a “lunatic”, it means that person is sane, so thanks for all the compliments.

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,10:41)

You know very well that book of Job is allegorical yet you use it as Scriptural example.

Let's see……….you don't like the one where Satan is kicked out of heaven. You don't like the Job example. Hmmmm……….how about this one?

Daniel 10:13 NIV
But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days. Then Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, because I was detained there with the king of Persia.

Where did Michael COME FROM? And why did he have to COME FROM anywhere if he was “everywhere all the time”? And why weren't ALL the other angels equally right there to help Daniel's angel since they are all “everywhere all the time”?

May God bless you Istari,
mike

January 17, 2011 at 1:12 am#233393

Baker

Participant

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,10:06)

T8,
Can I call Mikeboll64 a lunatic.

T8, is this person one whom you choose for a Moderator?

T8, is this your representative in this forum, one whom you entrust your powers to?

Istari! I will answer for t8, NO you may not call anyone anything, neither can Mike or anyone…..got it???
Peace Irene

January 17, 2011 at 2:04 am#233395

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 17 2011,17:06)

T8,
Can I call Mikeboll64 a lunatic.

T8, is this person one whom you choose for a Moderator?

T8, is this your representative in this forum, one whom you entrust your powers to?

istari

do not call for help just answer the questions ,what is wrong with those question ??that you do not answered them??

if you so good in you dimensions this would be cake to you right ??

Pierre

January 17, 2011 at 2:37 am#233397

mikeboll64

Blocked

He's calling the wrong person for help anyway. t8 seems to agree that 1 Cor 15 is talking about the bodies that those of heaven have.

Hi Irene and Pierre,

I haven't talked with you folks much lately. I hope all is well with both of you and Georg.

peace and love,
mike

January 17, 2011 at 6:05 am#233431

terraricca

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2011,19:37)

He's calling the wrong person for help anyway. t8 seems to agree that 1 Cor 15 is talking about the bodies that those of heaven have.

Hi Irene and Pierre,

I haven't talked with you folks much lately. I hope all is well with both of you and Georg.

peace and love,
mike

January 17, 2011 at 1:42 pm#233474

Baker

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 17 2011,12:37)

He's calling the wrong person for help anyway. t8 seems to agree that 1 Cor 15 is talking about the bodies that those of heaven have.

Hi Irene and Pierre,

I haven't talked with you folks much lately. I hope all is well with both of you and Georg.

peace and love,
mike

Mike! We had a fantastic Weekend. First ouoldest Son took us to Olive Garden for Dinner, and then the rest of out Chilren and Grandchilren surprised us with a 50th Wedding Anniversary, with gifts and all kinds of Decoration, so beautiful. We are leaving all up til our next 50th….Ha,ha..We both were on cloud nine….
How are you doing, hope all is well……
Peace and Love Irene

January 17, 2011 at 3:03 pm#233485

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Mike…………Here is my scripture support regarding Jesus ascending (FIRST) and then returning and was touched by his apostles.

Joh 20:17……> Jesus saith unto her, TOUCH ME NOT ,FOR I AM NOT YET ASCENDED TO MY FATHER: but go to my BROTHERS, and say unto them, I (ASCEND) unto my Father and your Father, and My GOD and your GOD.

Now read it and believe it! if you can.

NOW As regards to Jesus not being a Spirit Body of any kind.

Like 24:39…….> Behold my hands and my feet, that it is (I MYSELF): (HANDLE) me and SEE; because a SPIRIT HAS NOT FLESH AND BONES AS (AS YOU SEE) ME HAVE.

Jesus plainly said he was NOT a SPIRIT and HE also SAID A SPIRIT did NOT has FLESH and BONES as (HE HAD).

But you say he was a Spirit being of some kind (PURE GARBAGE) and false teachings on you part. Now show us how you can twist those SCRIPTURES up too MIKE.

ALSO PLEASE DO NOT SAY “I DON'T PRODUCE SCRIPTURE”, BECAUSE THAT ALSO IS A (LIE) I HAVE PRODUCED MANY MANY, SCRIPTURES HERE FAR MORE THEN YOU EVER HAVE. IMO

peace and love…………………………………..gene

January 17, 2011 at 10:03 pm#233531

Istari

Participant

Terraricca,
It is seldom worth responding to anything you post. But this last post got me seeing the light a little for you!

You say why don't I just answer the question, yet I have written three or four times in depth, expanded, mathematically, how Dimensions work.

Yet, here you are, both you and your insufferable leader, claiming I know nothing.

Yes, Terraricca, it is a piece of cake for me to explain what Dimensions are and how they work.
The problem is that You and Mikeboll64 cannot understand in a convincing way.

It is your desparation just to say that I am wrong that blinds your mind to the truth and reality.

Yet, even so, Terraricca, don't rely on your leader! Tomorrow he will get it and start to say that that was what he was saying all along. He will leave unsated in your belief, hanging, just like he left you and Irene hanging onto the belief that Celestial Bodies meant Spirit Bodies.

See how he greets you with honeyed words. Don't believe for a moment that he it is from piousness.

Or, believe if you like, it is only YOUR LIFE he is killing!

And as for t8, what I was alluding to was Mikeboll64's serpentine posts.
His 'snake in the grass' approach to Mikeboll64 truth.

He is not posting to seek Scriptural truth for God's sake but to try to regain some semblance of Manhood for himself, him being belittled by so many others over the years.

What he doesn't understand is that it is through his own failing of demanding to be right, demanding that his thoughts and ideas be seen as truth, it is this and that he is WRONG, it is this that causes his pain and anxiety and causes him to learn the way of the dragon!

When he realises he is wrong, he makes subtle changes to his argument, picking a single point and redefining it and re-redefining it until it sounds like what he wants it to be.
But check this: he never revisits the original question to fit his sculptured new idea into what was originally asked! Why, because it wouldn't fit!

This thread, what was the question? 'Do Spirits have Bodies'

Mikeboll64 has changed it to:Does Jesus have a body?

And the sheeplike ones here have followed along without question.
How many times have I requestioned the question, yet no one else has said 'hey, that's true, what we debating was not the question that was asked' (HitchHiker's Guide to the Galaxy)
In HHGttG, a simple question was asked: what do you get if you multiply 6 by 8?
But some lamebrained hairdressers, middle management dolallies and account executives, came along as rejects from the planet Golgafrinchen (there's a joke in there but I can't see it) and changed the question to 'What do you get if you multiply 6 by 7?' giving rise to the oft quoted and now famous answer of “42”!!
Of course, this was discovered, when it was too late, to be the WRONG ANSWER. The time travellers threw up theirs hands and went off to find a somewhere where they could get a really nice cup of Tea.
Meanwhile the little White mice who first asked the question (Mikeboll64) started up an everlasting debate on the subject and 'Rode the gravy trian for life'!!

The ONE TRUE Answer was, if course, 48!

January 17, 2011 at 10:44 pm#233537

shimmer

Participant

Gene and Istari

“Behold, I am with you always, even to the end of the world.” Amen.”

Bible commentaries say this;

Lo, I am with you – That is, by my Spirit, my providence, my attending counsel and guidance. I will strengthen, assist, and direct you……………. His spiritual presence; and that he would be with them, in a spiritual sense…………Forever: and this refers to the manner of the presence of his Spirit, by means of which he makes us partakers both of himself and of all his benefits, even though he is absent from us in body.

“I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in (etc)……………. Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or athirst, and gave thee drink? (etc)……………… Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it unto one of these my brethren, even these least, ye did it unto me.”

If Jesus is with us always in spirit form, in how many people and in how many places, then his spirit cannot have form because something with form has to be in only one place.

Mike, the wind blows and moves the trees. However it cant avoid a few trees and hit a few can it ? So, if spirit had form it would have to be in everyone in its way? Therefore it can NOT have form can it ? But can be in different people who are among all the others.

January 17, 2011 at 11:03 pm#233542

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Istari @ Jan. 18 2011,15:03)