Do spirits have bodies?

Blocked

Quote

Yet you say that an Angel as a body…and yet the very definition by EXPERTS and denied by NO ONE,

Yes Istari,

Both Gene and I say that angels have bodies. But who are these “experts” you speak of? Has an actual angel told them that angels don't have bodies? How does one become an “angel expert”?

I have only one question that I wish you to answer:

What separates one angel from another?

peace and love,
mike

January 9, 2011 at 6:18 pm#232575

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 10 2011,03:45)

Mike………Spirit is Spirit, no where is Spirit a Body in Scripture, Spirit is what is (IN) Bodies. Until you get that straight you can imagine all kind of things , like angels are spirits themselves

Hi Gene,

You agree that angels have bodies. Why don't you agree with scripture that says angels are spirits? Look up “spirit” in any dictionary, and “angels and demons” are one of the definitions.

Whether a man can see God or not doesn't imply anything about whether or not spirit beings have bodies – so I don't know why you brought that up. And maybe that's where you and I should start: Is an angel a “spirit being” Gene?

peace and love,
mike

January 9, 2011 at 9:00 pm#232580

shimmer

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2011,04:18)

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 10 2011,00:29)

The verse I quoted was not addressed to anyone, just to whoever isnt understanding things here. I made a post a few pages back, JA got it, cool. Then Mike put some post bringing up things from a hundred pages back. Thats annoying. How can anyone move on like that ?

But everyone here is missing the point !

Hi Shimmer,

I understand that people sometimes adjust their understanding in light of scriptures they hadn't considered before……..as well they should. It's the ones who cling to their first understanding DESPITE scriptural evidence to the contrary that have a problem, IMO.

But I've read almost every post in the thread since I started it, and you and JA are NOT believing the same things. So I find it odd that you would post a declaration about how you agree with EVERYTHING JA has ever posted on this thread……..when that's not really the case.

Shimmer, do angels have bodies? YES or NO?

peace and love,
mike

Mike, what ARE you saying ? Forget the past Mike, I believe all that JA believes here. Whatever I said in the past here I said, I have no idea nor do I care, it's how we learn Mike.

I was thinking with my own carnal mind is all, now I think with the spiritual mind and it's that which I used to have, so is nothing new to me. I had just become lost here since i began posting in believers place.

Your question Mike…

Quote

Shimmer, do angels have bodies? YES or NO?

so easily answered,

Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Nicodemus said to him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said to you, You must be born again. The wind blows where it wants, and you hear the sound thereof, but can not tell from where it comes, and where it goes: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

You prob wont get it though ?

You cant see the wind Mike.

January 9, 2011 at 9:02 pm#232581

Participant

To All! I have done some research of Spirit Beings. I believe that in order to hold God's Holy Spirit in us and Angels we need a body. Otherwise the Spirit of God, will flood around in space, that is not so…. We also have to remember that there is only one Holy Spirit. I don't think that the Spirit in man stands alone. he would never understand what the Holy Spirit teaches if He did not have a Spirit. At resurrection God will give us a new Spiritual Body. To then say that Jesus is still in the flesh is not according to Scripture in 1 Corinth. I don't think that Jesus fleshly body was resurrected because the Apostles and Maria Magdalene did not recognize Jesus. The Scripture when Jesus shows His Apostles His wounds, it is because they doubted and thought it was a Ghost. And Thomas said if He didn't see Jesus wounds that He wouldn't believe that it was Him….Also it doesn't say that Jesus came through the door, but it does say that the doors were shut. Why would Paul even say that the doors were shut if it didn't matter. I know I stand alone in this pretty much exept Georg believes that also…..
I do take this Scripture also and apply it to Jesus too

1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.

To me there is no in between…..To me Jesus was raised in a Spiritual Body which we also at resurrection. I also have to say here that that is the first resurrection, and not all Humans will become Spirit Beings. Some will inherit the earth. If they too will have a Spiritual body, in the Millennium I don't think so IMO but I don't know that for certain….
Peace Irene

January 9, 2011 at 9:17 pm#232585

Participant

I thought we stood alone in this, but this what came up when I googled Heaven Net

Spiritual Bodies and
Resurrection Bodies

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Are you a master of Israel, and you don't know these things? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? (John 3:10-12)

Spiritual Bodies

Heavenly Bodies

Millennium

Resurrection Bodies

Time in Heaven

Scripture Evidence
It is incompatible for us temporal beings in a temporal world to make any solid statements on Heavenly things. Yet, from what we can glean from 'Near Death Experiences', as well as from the Scriptures, we can draw certain valid conclusions which give us a greater understanding about what we more or less will be like, in the next world and dispensation. Join with us now in sorting out some of these Heavenly Mysteries, and see if some of its conclusions hold water or not!

SPIRITUAL AND TERRESTRIAL BODIES
Though bound by limitations of their failing earthly memories, and inability to express Heavenly experiences in earthly words, from people who had Near Death Experiences, we can learn many things. Most of these conclusions coincide with descriptions found in the Bible.

Souls that go to Heaven in this age or dispensation, have a spirit body. These are bodies of light, that can either be nude or clothed: They seem to be of a somewhat “see-through” nature or even invisible at times, depending on what is revealed to the person who has the NDE. With these bodies the soul can go through the solid dimensions of this world, through walls, and ceilings, and travel at the speed of thought!
Also, the perception of these souls seems to be influenced by the management of their Heavenly guides or the Lord himself! Some kind of Heavenly Virtual Reality, yet more than REAL! Check out the following different excerpts:

“What I saw, I saw with the eyes of the spirit, because at that time my soul and my spirit were in heaven. At the time you leave the flesh, your spiritual awareness becomes acute, because the flesh holds down your spiritual awareness. At death, your spirit is released. My experience was supernatural but nonetheless real.”

* * *

“…as if I had eyes all around my head, I saw …souls that were in heaven – multitudes. There was no way to count them. Whether there were millions or billions, I have no idea. As far as I could see in every direction were people of all sizes dressed in white robes. The people were transparent; I could see through them.
“I looked at my body and realized I was one of them. When you look at yourself and can look through yourself, it is quite an experience. I was looking at a form of my body.

* * *

“…I demanded of him: “How am I here, in this place, when I know that my body is back there in the hospital?” And “Where is this place? How do I see this place and you, if I'm not with my body? How can I be two places at once?” I began to feel very upset. “What are you?” I demanded!
His voice calmed me immediately. He said, “You are in a very special place. You are safe.”
He went on to explain that, though my body was in the hospital, it was my physical body and that each of us has also our spiritual body and our mental body.
He said, “It is your mental and spiritual body that is here. It is with your mental and spiritual eyes that you see this place. Likewise, it is through your mental and spiritual body senses that you perceive everything in and about this place. This place is in your mind's eye, your imagination; it is as it is because this is exactly what you need it to be. Your physical crisis and mental need caused it to be just as you perceive it. I am here too without a physical body. You see me as I see myself in my own mind's eye. A mental picture (a thought) from my mind to your mind's eye. I am as you see me because this is the way that I perceived that you needed me to be. Who I am or my name is not important. I am here for you on behalf of your Heavenly Father's love for you and to remind you from where you came.”

HEAVENLY BODIES that is next, find out yourself what it says, i don't want to flood this tread…

Peace Irene

January 9, 2011 at 9:52 pm#232586

Participant

Irene …………..Spiritual mean a Spirit controlled “BODY” not a SPIRIT BODY because a spirit is not a body of any kind, if a man is SPIRITUALLY MINDED, DOES THAT ALSO MEAN HE IS A SPIRIT BEING OF SOME KIND. NO IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT, NEITHER DOES A SPIRITUAL BODY MEAN IT IS A BODY COMPOSED OF SPIRIT, BUT IT IS A “BODY” of some kind (CONTROLLED) BY SPIRIT IT CONTAINS. If that spirit is of God then you are Godly minded if that spirit (intellect) is of the world then you are worldly minded. Simple as that, what is so hard about that to understand.

The problem with you as well as many here, you have bought into MYSTERY RELIGIONS teachings of Spirits existing as some kind of “Beings” themselves , when in fact a Spirit an (intellect) which is (IN) Beings who contain bodies of some kind. Even the Spirit (intellect) of a Satan is just and (adversarial) (intellect) and yes Peter was truly a SATAN or adversary of Jesus and Jesus was accurate calling him a SATAN. But see you can't truly believe that, because you believe SATAN is some KIND of BEING who exists as a SPIRIT person some where jumping in and out of people , when in fact Satan is a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) that anyone can have at any time even GOD can also be a Satan or ADVERSARY. When he says go tell them I am against them He is acting as an ADVERSARY or SATAN.

This subject is at the core of false teachings of Christendom and the source of most of the confusion that exist in Christianity. Not understanding what SPIRIT really is causes a host of misunderstanding > IMO, There are some simply clues spoken by Jesus himself , GOD THE FATHER WAS TRULY (IN) HIM, HOW? BY HIS SPIRIT, GOD IS SPIRIT AND CAN INDWELL OUR PHYSICAL BODIES AS HE DID JESUS, AND ALL HIS CREATION AS WELL ALL AT THE SAME TIME. God is not a “person” sitting on a throne somewhere GOD is “enthroned” (IN) his creation and that is his kingdom. If you are in the kingdom of GOD then GOD is (IN) YOU just as he was (IN) Jesus. WE are reckoned as TEMPLES of the Living GOD in which He dwells. “Or know you not that GOD is (IN) You lest you be a reprobate”. God lives vicariously in and through his creation, he is spirit and does not have a body of any kind, we can only see Him through the eye of our mind or Spirit (intellect) that is in us. IMO

peace and love……………………………..gene

January 9, 2011 at 10:12 pm#232587

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2011,04:18)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 10 2011,03:45)

Hi Gene,

You agree that angels have bodies. Why don't you agree with scripture that says angels are spirits? Look up “spirit” in any dictionary, and “angels and demons” are one of the definitions.

peace and love,
mike

Mike …………..Are you a spirit being? yes, you are or you would not be alive. I do agree Angels have Bodies and GOD creates their spirits and puts it in them and send them forth to minister to his childern in this world. They are Just like us they have Bodies with Spirits (intellects) (IN) them. The only difference is that GOD fashioned our bodies to cease to function so we can experience death, and come to realize He has always had complete control of our lives and can resurrect us by recreating a new body and adding spirit back into them. No one exists outside of a body but God himself.

Even an unclean spirit (intellect) or clean Spirit (intellect) or a Good Spirit (intellect) or and Evil Spirit (intellect) derives its source from ONE GOD, after all who put the Tree of Good and evil in the garden was it not God himself. These spirits are useless unless they are (IN) a body of some kind , they simple go about in (arid) or dry places seeking something to rest In , that is the same as thoughts do, they are unless too, unless they are in you working right?>

Mike, we all need to get straight what Spirit really is and if we do it will stabilize much here and help people properly get a grip on scriptures in a clearer way. I started a thread on Spirit once and it fizzled out but behind my reason for it all was this concept, is Spirit a BODY or Not. Is there a spirit “body” of any kind as JA thinks there is, i believe, which i disagree with him on that one part though. I do see where he is coming from though, spirit creates Bodies and then inhabits them, GOD who is spirit does create His world of Bodies By his spirit and does inhabit them, I just don't think spirits themselves create individual bodies and lose then and recreate them at their will, nor do i think they create bodies and change them to become bodiless beings either. I believe only GOD can create Bodies and cause them to be Inhabited. IMO.

Spirit never was a Body it is what life (IS) and is (IN) bodies of all types as Paul talked about the different bodies but none the less it is spirit (intelligent Life ) in them that is causing them to function at what ever lever YHWH wanted them to function at. God is omnipresent because he is (IN) all things that have life (IN) them so God even knows when a sparrow falls to the ground as Jesus said he did. IMO

This is a far greater subject then most here even begin to realize IMO

peace and love…………………………….gene

January 9, 2011 at 11:36 pm#232589

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 10 2011,07:52)

The problem with you as well as many here, you have bought into MYSTERY RELIGIONS teachings of Spirits existing as some kind of “Beings” themselves , when in fact a Spirit an (intellect) which is (IN) Beings who contain a bodies of some kind. Even the Spirit (intellect) of a Satan is just and (adversarial) (intellect) and yes Peter was truly a SATAN or adversary of Jesus and Jesus was accurate calling him a SATAN. But see you can't truly believe that, because you believe SATAN is some KIND of BEING who exists as a SPIRIT person some where jumping in and out of people , when in fact Satan is a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) that anyone can have at any time even GOD can have it also.

This subject is at the core of false teachings of Christendom and the source of most of the confusion that exist in Christianity. Not understanding what SPIRIT really is causes a host of misunderstanding > IMO, There are some simply clues spoken by Jesus himself , GOD THE FATHER WAS TRULY (IN) HIM, HOW? BY HIS SPIRIT, GOD IS SPIRIT AND CAN INDWELL PHYSICAL BODIES AS OUR, AND ALL HIS CREATION AS WELL ALL AT THE SAME TIME. God is not a “person” sitting on a throne somewhere GOD is enthroned (IN) his creation and that is his kingdom. If you are in the kingdom of GOD then GOD is (IN) YOU just as he was (IN) Jesus. WE are reckoned as TEMPLES of the Living GOD in which He dwells. “Or know you not that GOD is (IN) You lest you be a reprobate”. God lives vicariously in and through his creation, he is spirit and does not have a body of any kind, we can only see him through the eye of our mind or Spirit (intellect) that is in us. IMO

peace and love……………………………..gene

Gene! What did you do? Only read the first sentence and not everything else? There is a lot of information from someone that had a deathbed experience. You confuse yourself.

At one point you say about our Spiritual minds, but that is still the NATURAL BODY that we are in. The Spiritual Body comes after the natural Body that we are now, after the resurrection of our death. This is what Scriptures state in

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Pay attention that it says it is RAISED A SPIRITUAL BODY…..

OH, YES I KNOW YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN SATAN, BUT CAN YOU PROVE THAT?

Eze 28:16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

Eze 28:17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

Eze 28:18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
Lucifer was a beautiful cherub until iniquity was found in him.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Who is the devil and his angels?

January 10, 2011 at 12:59 am#232591

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 10 2011,08:12)

I do agree Angels have Bodies

Hi Gene,

And what are their bodies made out of?

mike

January 10, 2011 at 1:00 am#232592

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 10 2011,07:00)

You prob wont get it though ?

You cant see the wind Mike.

Hi Shimmer,

So if we can't see it, it can't be a “body”? Is that what you're saying?

mike

January 10, 2011 at 1:28 am#232594

Blocked

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,07:17)

These are bodies of light, that can either be nude or clothed: They seem to be of a somewhat “see-through” nature or even invisible at times,

With these bodies the soul can go through the solid dimensions of this world, through walls, and ceilings, and travel at the speed of thought!

The people were transparent; I could see through them.
“I looked at my body and realized I was one of them. When you look at yourself and can look through yourself, it is quite an experience. I was looking at a form of my body

He said, “It is your mental and spiritual body that is here. It is with your mental and spiritual eyes that you see this place.

Hi Irene,

I only quoted some excerpts from your post. I couldn't really say whether these near death experiences are real, or just imagined from the person's own beliefs. But what they describe is more like I picture spiritual bodies in my own mind. I picture them as transparent, see through bodies that can vanish into a cloud of vapor and shoot across the galaxy faster than the speed of light at will.

I think some people are hung up on this thread because they only want to picture “bodies” like they have seen on earth. For example, to paraphrase Shimmer: “Duh Mike, angels are like wind, and you can't see wind, so therefore it doesn't have a body.” But I think this reasoning is very naive. If we add color to the wind, we can see it very clearly. In fact, this is how they make more aerodynamic automobiles. Mankind has developed radar and infrared technology and temperature sensitive cameras that enable us to see the exact “body” of a hurricane. Do you understand that, Shimmer? We can actually see the shape of a body of WIND.

JA has accused many here of thinking with a carnal mind instead of a spiritual one. But I've never suspected that spiritual bodies would resemble human ones. They could look like transparent cotton candy that stretches for miles for all we know. Or they could be smaller than the head of a pin.

My one and only point I've been trying to get answered by those who don't think spirits have bodies is this:

What separates one angel from another? Shimmer? Istari? Anybody?

Anyway Irene, I don't put too much stock in these near death experience accounts. As I understand Revelation, it seems that only those who are directly killed for following God and his Christ are immediately raised to heaven. And possibly the ones still living when the tribulation finally occurs……..the ones who have refused to bear the mark of the beast. Other than that, I believe Solomon who says the dead are conscious of nothing at all.

So if these people who are having the near death experiences aren't having them while being killed for Christ, then there's no reason for me to believe they would go into any spiritual realm for any reason……at least not until the resurrection. But that's just my own man-made opinion.

peace and love,
mike

January 10, 2011 at 2:53 am#232595

shimmer

Participant

Mike, today was a beautiful day. The sun was shining, the wind was breezy, I couldn't see the wind, but I could see the trees blowing gently in it.

January 10, 2011 at 4:22 am#232597

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 10 2011,11:28)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 10 2011,07:17)

These are bodies of light, that can either be nude or clothed: They seem to be of a somewhat “see-through” nature or even invisible at times,

With these bodies the soul can go through the solid dimensions of this world, through walls, and ceilings, and travel at the speed of thought!

He said, “It is your mental and spiritual body that is here. It is with your mental and spiritual eyes that you see this place.

Hi Irene,

My one and only point I've been trying to get answered by those who don't think spirits have bodies is this:

What separates one angel from another? Shimmer? Istari? Anybody?

peace and love,
mike

Mike! I got the article from Heaven Net. If this is a true Testimony I don't know. I thought it was a good explanation of Spiritual Bodies. I only took half of what the rest said. I also don't know who got that information, if it was t8 or not……goggle What does Heaven Net say about Spiritual Bodies? Go down were it says “Near Death experiences proof and extract about see through Spiritual” And you can see what else it says…..
Peace and Love Irene

January 10, 2011 at 3:41 pm#232620

Participant

Irene………..Those near death experiences have been explained by science , as when a person is starting to die their brain begins to disconnect and it starts with the eyes first and that causes the light that they describe . I would not put to much trust in those things , the thing that happened to me was completely different no lights were coming on Just a water looking Oblique ring about a foot and a half in diameter slowly spinning came through my bedroom door and turned and advanced straight toward my head and paused a few seconds and then went right out the same way and right through the door , it looked just like water coming out of a hose it was kinda of clear but you could see it. I was instantly healed did no slowly recovery but instantaneously. I did not float around or see white lights at all.

And Just because we human cant see Angels at times does not mean they do not have bodies, in fact they do have bodies, exactly the same as Jesus now has, and His body was flesh and bone , but you do not believe him when he said a Spirit does not have flesh and bone as he had do you? Even that body went through a door and appeared and disappeared , but non the less it was a “Body” he had and he did say spirit does (NOT) Have a BODY, I am saying the same thing a SPIRIT (INTELLECT) is not a body it is what is (IN) a Body, Jesus had Spirit (IN) Him before his death and also after his resurrection of the (BODY) that Body He had was Not a Spirit body , but spirit was indeed (IN) that Body. This is a Hugh confusion in religion and your belief in SPIRIT,”BODIES” is a result of that confusion. You still have no idea what SPIRIT really IS> If GOD who is SPIRIT according to Jesus, has a body as you say he does, then how does that body fit into everyones body, that God can be all and (IN) You all as it says. Again for the hundredth time a Spirit (intellect) is NOT a Body it is what is (IN) a Body.

peace and love……………………………….gene

January 10, 2011 at 4:52 pm#232629

Participant

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 10 2011,12:53)

Mike, today was a beautiful day. The sun was shining, the wind was breezy, I couldn't see the wind, but I could see the trees blowing gently in it.

Shimmer……….So it is with the Spirit (IN) you you can't see it but it does move and animate you body right. Spirit is Just our Thoughts coming from our Intellects, (IT) is our life cognation in us. that is what Spirit is. And in deed it is just like the wind, Jesus was not describing what the spirit looked like but how it operates in all living things, it does cause us to go where (it) lists or desires us to. IMO

peace and love to you and yours Shimmer………………….gene

January 10, 2011 at 11:01 pm#232666

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 11 2011,01:41)

peace and love……………………………….gene

Most Scientists don't believe in God either. So does that mean there is No God…. It is all by faith. The article is not just about death experience, it has more in it. I didn't want to flood the tread and gave the source where I got that information…..look it up….It is from Heaven Net…Your experience was not that you left your body. There is one Lady that was death. They had to take all of Her blood out of Her body…..Do I believe it 100% no. I too take it with a grain of salt…. But I would not say no either. We just don't know….One day we will and to that day I am looking forward too. That is all, we will never agree on that Angels have a Spiritual Body… To each his own…You say I am wrong and I say your confused…End of story….
Peace Irene

January 11, 2011 at 2:18 am#232678

Blocked

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 10 2011,12:53)

Mike, today was a beautiful day. The sun was shining, the wind was breezy, I couldn't see the wind, but I could see the trees blowing gently in it.

AH! So have you now become convinced that our inability to see something with our human eyes is not proof that it doesn't exist?

peace and love,
mike

January 11, 2011 at 2:21 am#232679

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 11 2011,01:41)

And Just because we human cant see Angels at times does not mean they do not have bodies,

That's right Gene. But could you answer my question?

What are angels' bodies made out of?

peace and love,
mike

January 11, 2011 at 3:15 am#232682

Participant

Irene…………….If you don't want to flood this thread by off subject matter then don't bring it up in the first place, that would be a good start for you right. You have a bad habit of changing subject matter and not dealing with the specific points mention by me or others,and this is a major source of distraction here. IMO

gene

January 11, 2011 at 3:23 am#232684