Do spirits have bodies?

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January 2, 2011 at 12:09 pm#231032

Ed J

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 27 2010,13:50)

yagger yagger yagger yah!

Hi JustAskin,

Glad to see your back!

Your friend,
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 2, 2011 at 2:05 pm#231042

theodorej

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 27 2010,01:55)

To All……….The whole concept of Flesh and blood can't enter the kingdom of Heaven , has nothing to do with flesh and blood going into outer space at all. What it has to do with is that the flesh and blood part of Man in not capable of entering the kingdom of GOD, because flesh and blood is not (Spirit), Spirit is what is (IN) flesh and blood , the body is just a temple or house for the spirit and the Spirit of GOD , which is where the Kingdom of God is, It the SPIRIT of GOD, can inter into that flesh and blood body, it was (IN) Jesus , the kingdom of God was working (in Jesus who was a flesh and blood being). “THE KINGDOM OF GOD COMES WITHOUT (OBSERVATION) IT IS (WITHIN) YOU”, can't anyone here understand that?

SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE BODIES OF ANY KIND THEY NEVER DID, SPIRIT IS USELESS WITHOUT A BODY OF SOME KIND TO BE IN AND ANIMATE. Why do you think GOD created a (PHYSICAL) universe and created the earth with its billions of various (PHYSICAL) life forms in it, in the first place, these life forms are places for spirits to dwell and cause life to be lived and function, and that includes Man.

God is not going to destory his creation ever, but will deliver it from its bondage of corruption and cause it to exist for ever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with our wonderful world we live in , its just the evil that is effecting it that needs to be removed and it will turn into a paradise of beauty and spindler giving Glory to its creator our heavenly FATHER the ONE AND ONLY CREATOR GOD for ever. IMO

Peace and love…………………………………gene

Greetings Gene…..The kingdom/government of God will be a physical kingdom with various levels of authority….the kingdom you speak of that is in your heart is some kind of a euphoric sensation or trance we have the ability to put ourselves in….You are correct God is not going to destroy his creation nor is he going to allow some median or sorcerer to prophetise its demise….He Will step in just before we destroy his creation…That time is at hand.

January 2, 2011 at 2:15 pm#231044

Ed J

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 03 2011,00:05)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 27 2010,01:55)

Peace and love…………………………………gene

Greetings Gene…..The kingdom/government of God will be a physical kingdom with various levels of authority….the kingdom you speak of that is in your heart is some kind of a euphoric sensation or trance we have the ability to put ourselves in….You are correct God is not going to destroy his creation nor is he going to allow some median or sorcerer to prophetise its demise….He Will step in just before we destroy his creation…That time is at hand.

Hi Theodore J,

Aren't you overlooking this verses to say what you said?
Luke 17:20-21 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees,
when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said,
The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say,
Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. (Rev.2:15)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 2, 2011 at 2:23 pm#231048

theodorej

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,00:15)

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 03 2011,00:05)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 27 2010,01:55)

Peace and love…………………………………gene

Hi Theodore J,

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Greetings Ed…..At the time Jesus was preaching the Gospel(good news of the Coming Kingdom of God)….It is obvious that the kingdom/government is not here yet nor was it at that time,however the truth of it was in the hearts and minds of the believers of Jesus time and Luke clearly stated that…

January 2, 2011 at 2:28 pm#231049

Ed J

Participant

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 03 2011,00:23)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,00:15)

Quote (theodorej @ Jan. 03 2011,00:05)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 27 2010,01:55)

Peace and love…………………………………gene

Hi Theodore J,

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Theodore J,

It is obvious that God (according to atheists) don't exist.
Are they right (according to your logic) too?

God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 2, 2011 at 4:01 pm#231063

GeneBalthrop

Participant

EDJ………You have it right, he Kingdom of GOD comes without observation , because it is within a person by their minds being transformed (BY) GODS Spirit (intellect) , that is where the kingdom of GOD resides as it did (IN) Jesus and later (IN) the Apostles and all true disciples of Christ are members of the Kingdom of GOD that exists (IN) them. This kingdom of GOD started with Jesus and spread to his disciples and others after the day of Pentecost fifty days after the passover. When GOD said he would pour forth of HIS Spirit upon all Flesh (in a general sense) THAT TOOK PLACE AND GODS kingdom WAS STARTING TO FORM , But not all have His (SET ASIDE) SPIRIT(IN) them yet. Therefore the kingdom of GOD is liken unto a Doe when a women puts in a measure of Yeast and it spreads in the Doe until all of it is leavened. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………gene

January 2, 2011 at 4:11 pm#231064

Ed J

Participant

Thank you Gene!

There is MUCH we agree on!
And may our God tare down all
the remaining differences as well!

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus!
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 2, 2011 at 4:15 pm#231065

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All…………..Many think the kingdom of God will start When Jesus returns , but Scripture say that that (Physical) kingdom is the Kingdom of King David given to Jesus and is the Kingdom of Jesus which He will set up on earth at his return. Even though Jesus is driven by the Seven Spirits of GOD (IN) him, as well as the Saints they are he only true members of the Kingdom of GOD the rest of the world is not, they simply are in an environment where evil has been removed by GOD for a thousand years and are enjoying the effects of that removal of evil, However at the end of the thousand year period when evil is reintroduces back on earth all go after it (except) Jesus and the Saints who have the true Kingdom of GOD (IN) them , If a person does not have the (Set Aside) or Holy SPIRIT of GOD (IN) them they are simply not in the Kingdom (rule) of GOD. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………………………gene

January 2, 2011 at 4:24 pm#231066

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 03 2011,02:15)

peace and love to you all…………………………………gene

Hi Gene,

Many thought when Jesus walked the Earth that he was
going to be 'a king', they were wrong then as well as now!

John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by
force, to make him ‘a king’, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 2, 2011 at 4:32 pm#231069

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 02 2011,12:02)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,11:50)

I do know how hard this is, but He gave His life for us as a ransom…..There is something not right here, but a ransom is what it is, instead of…..You say IT ONLY FITS, BUT IT DOES NOT what about the Scripture were it says that Jesus appeared in a room with closed doors……… Peace Irene.

Hi Irene,

You just said that Jesus “gave his LIFE for us as a ransom”, right? Did Jesus receive his LIFE back, even though it was ransomed for us? YES. So, I ask you, WHY NOT HIS BODY?

I've showed you scriptures that said Jesus' BODY would NOT see decay like David's did. I showed you scripture where Jesus told his followers that he WASN'T a spirit. I showed you scriptures where Jesus still had the holes in his hands and in his side.

And you showed me scriptures where Jesus appeared inside a closed room. You assert that a flesh and bone man could not do that. But that same flesh and bone man walked on water and was transfigured and glowed as bright as the sun, so how could you use appearing in a locked room as any kind of proof?

For me, it all boils down to Luke 24:39. I honestly don't believe that Jesus could have been a spirit with a fake body and still tell his disciples he wasn't a spirit. That would have been deceitful, and I just don't think Jesus would have done that.

Irene, we can agree to disagree on this one.

peace and love,
mike

Mike…………..How about that we do agree on something that Jesus was resurected in a BODY and that body was (NOT) a SPIRIT BODY, and remember that body went through a door, and disappeared from peoples Site. Well miracles of miracles, I guess Shimmers prayers are working , i also have prayed for you too , I may chide you mike, but God knows i do not want you or anyone to get discouraged here.

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

January 2, 2011 at 4:44 pm#231072

Baker

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2011,19:46)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,02:01)

I think what most of you don't understand is, that body, and mind/spirit, are two separate components in physical/visible beings, and in spirit/invisible beings.
Spirit/invisible beings can not die, only God can destroy them.
When we, physical/visible beings die, only our body decays, our mind/spirit is preserved by God and placed in a new body at the resurrection.
Jesus was a spirit/invisible being before he became man. God changed his spirit/invisible body into a physical/visible body. If we believe that God can change our physical/visible body into a spirit/invisible body, why then is it so hard to believe that God did that with his son Jesus?
Jesus had to become one of us for two reasons; one, spirit/invisible beings can't die; two, he came to die for one of us, Adam.
God changed his “nature” from spirit/invisible, to physical/visible. This change did not effect his mind/spirit. He knew who he was, where he had come from, who his Father was, and why he had come.
After our death and resurrection we will know, when and where we lived, how we lived, what we did, etc.
It was Jesus flesh body that took on all of our sins, not his mind/spirit; it was Jesus' “flesh” body that was sentenced to death, not his mind/spirit.
When God raised him from the dead, he raised him with the body he had before, spirit/invisible.
That flesh body “was” the RANSOM, it changed places with Adam. Adam had his sins removed, taken on by Jesus, now Jesus flesh body was condemned to death, and had to remain in the grave.
How can any one think that Jesus' flesh body, scared beyond recognition, could be considered a glorious body? No human body is considered a glorious body.
Is it really so hard to understand why God would not allow for “that” body to see corruption, decay?

The Bible is quite clear on the subjects of the two worlds; spirit/invisible world, and a physical/visible world. To say the spirit/invisible world does not exist, is to say, God does not exist.

Georg

georg

well said and agree with you,and also decay is a process over time ,and Christ only stayed 3 days so no decay process,
God disposed of Moses Body and he would do the same to Christ flesh what at fulfilled is purpose(die)

Pierre

You are right Pierre. The fact that nobody else responded to that post shows, how little is understood by them.

Georg

January 2, 2011 at 4:55 pm#231075

Ed J

Participant

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,02:44)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2011,19:46)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,02:01)

The Bible is quite clear on the subjects of the two worlds; spirit/invisible world, and a physical/visible world. To say the spirit/invisible world does not exist, is to say, God does not exist.

Georg

georg

Pierre

You are right Pierre. The fact that nobody else responded to that post shows, how little is understood by them.

Georg

Hi Georg,

If we were to not respond to any of your Posts,
would that then make us “Biblically illiterate”?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

January 2, 2011 at 5:19 pm#231083

Baker

Participant

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 03 2011,02:55)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,02:44)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 02 2011,19:46)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 03 2011,02:01)

The Bible is quite clear on the subjects of the two worlds; spirit/invisible world, and a physical/visible world. To say the spirit/invisible world does not exist, is to say, God does not exist.

Georg

georg

Pierre

You are right Pierre. The fact that nobody else responded to that post shows, how little is understood by them.

Georg

Hi Georg,

If we were to not respond to any of your Posts,
would that then make us “Biblically illiterate”?

Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I think that of you whether you respond or not.

Georg

January 2, 2011 at 5:31 pm#231087

GeneBalthrop

Participant

To All…………Again SPIRITS do (NOT) Have Bodies they are what is (IN) Bodies. Still waiting for one person to PROVE Different. It was not a BODY the was (IN) Jesus it was GOD the FATHER who (is) SPIRIT. IMO

peace and love to you all……………………………………gene

January 2, 2011 at 7:10 pm#231099

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

When we, physical/visible beings die, only our body decays, our mind/spirit is preserved by God and placed in a new body at the resurrection.

Hi Georg,

And what of the meek that shall inherit the earth? What kind of bodies will they be given? Earthly flesh bodies or heavenly spiritual bodies? The point I'm making is that one will have no need of a heavenly spiritual body……….UNLESS they will be existing in heaven, right? Jesus, therefore, had no need of his body to be transformed into a glorious, spiritual body UNTIL he was raised to heaven, right?

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

God changed his “nature” from spirit/invisible, to physical/visible. This change did not effect his mind/spirit. He knew who he was, where he had come from, who his Father was, and why he had come.

While I agree with most of this, scripture leads me to believe he didn't have FULL knowledge of his past until the Jordan. (Luke 2:52)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

It was Jesus flesh body that took on all of our sins, not his mind/spirit; it was Jesus' “flesh” body that was sentenced to death, not his mind/spirit.

It was THE MAN Jesus, who was sentenced to death, Georg. It was his LIFE, BLOOD, AND BODY, that was the sacrifice. How can you just focus on the BODY only? How can you say it was ONLY the BODY that was the sacrifice when there are many scriptures that mention the BLOOD and the LIFE itself?

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

Adam had his sins removed, taken on by Jesus, now Jesus flesh body was condemned to death, and had to remain in the grave.

You claim this in DIRECT opposition to scriptures that say God would NOT let his holy one remain in Sheol. You claim this in DIRECT opposition to scriptures that say his BODY would NOT see decay.

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

How can any one think that Jesus' flesh body, scared beyond recognition, could be considered a glorious body? No human body is considered a glorious body.

How can you say “scarred beyond recognition”? Are you saying that the results of being crucified were similar to the results of being crushed by a 2 ton boulder? Why would wearing a crown of thorns and having some holes in his hands and side make him “scarred beyond recognition”?

Plus, what do you make of this scripture, Georg?

Philippians 3:21 NIV
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Why couldn't Jesus' “lowly flesh body” have been similarly “TRANSFORMED” into his glorious body upon his ascension to heaven?

Listen Georg, this is what it comes down to. Your understanding (which, by the way, was MY understanding when I first started this thread), leaves a couple of gaping holes. First, it means that while Jesus WAS a spirit, he deceived his followers by saying he wasn't. Second, it allows for Jesus' body to suffer destruction when scripture CLEARLY says it won't.

You get around this “decay” part by asserting God just disposed of the body in some non-decaying way. And that's fine………but it doesn't mean that God couldn't have done that AFTER his 40 days on earth. And it also makes me wonder why Paul's lowly body will be TRANSFORMED INTO a glorious one, while Jesus needs a BRAND NEW BODY. And you'll say, “Because it was the BODY that was the sacrifice”. And I'll repeat that it was HIS LIFE that was also the sacrifice, yet he received that back AFTER the sacrifice, so why not the body also? And you'll end up with nothing SCRIPTURAL at all to say Jesus' body was destroyed by God, and have to eventually come to the realization that this is just how you've always pictured it in your head, and change is hard.

Georg, I thought the exact same way about this as you, Irene and Pierre, and David do. And I respect all of you for your scriptural knowledge, and do not go against you on this lightly. But scriptures are scriptures. They are the only thing we have to test our understanding against. Shimmer and my understanding takes ALL of the resurrection scriptures into account, and leaves NO holes. Your understanding leaves Jesus, who really WAS a spirit, lying and deceiving his followers by saying he wasn't. Georg, would Jesus LIE to them just to “calm them down”? Did he ever do that in the past?

peace and love,
mike

January 2, 2011 at 7:23 pm#231100

terraricca

Participant

Mike

you say;;While I agree with most of this, scripture leads me to believe he didn't have FULL knowledge of his past until the Jordan. (Luke 2:52)

this is not true;wen Jesus was twelve he new,and the fact that he knew is that s why he went to John the baptist to do his fathers will,(to finish his work on earth)

Pierre

January 2, 2011 at 7:25 pm#231101

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 03 2011,02:32)

peace and love to you and yours………………………gene

Hi Gene,

Thanks for the prayers. Shimmer has pointed out my error in thinking Jesus was raised immediately from the dead in a spiritual body. And I've embraced that error and corrected my understanding to fit around the scriptures. Just like I've done on at least 6 understandings since joining HN. I did not lie when I said if scriptures prove my understanding wrong, I will adjust my understanding. And this is proof of that.

Listen Gene, I had one understanding secure in my mind. And change is hard. But in light of scripture, I changed my understanding. My old understanding left a couple of scriptures out of the loop, and when Shimmer showed me that, I embraced those scriptures. But similarly, your understanding leaves a couple of scriptures out of the loop………but you refuse to embrace those scriptures so far.

Three scriptures specifically say that Jesus is a spirit now, and there are many more that back these three up by implication. When will YOU embrace that Paul received his understanding NOT FROM A MAN, but from Jesus Christ? (Galatians 1:1, 12)

As far a “chiding”, I'm with you as long as it doesn't go too far and remains in the spirit of love and not hate.

peace and love,
mike

January 2, 2011 at 7:29 pm#231102

mikeboll64

Blocked

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 03 2011,05:23)

Mike

you say;;While I agree with most of this, scripture leads me to believe he didn't have FULL knowledge of his past until the Jordan. (Luke 2:52)

this is not true;wen Jesus was twelve he new,and the fact that he knew is that s why he went to John the baptist to do his fathers will,(to finish his work on earth)

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

I don't claim that Jesus had NO knowledge before the Jordan. But if he had ALL knowledge, then this following scripture makes no sense:

52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

How could he GROW IN WISDOM if he already had all wisdom?

peace and love,
mike

January 2, 2011 at 7:31 pm#231103

terraricca

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,12:10)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

When we, physical/visible beings die, only our body decays, our mind/spirit is preserved by God and placed in a new body at the resurrection.

Hi Georg,

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

While I agree with most of this, scripture leads me to believe he didn't have FULL knowledge of his past until the Jordan. (Luke 2:52)

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

It was Jesus flesh body that took on all of our sins, not his mind/spirit; it was Jesus' “flesh” body that was sentenced to death, not his mind/spirit.

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

Adam had his sins removed, taken on by Jesus, now Jesus flesh body was condemned to death, and had to remain in the grave.

You claim this in DIRECT opposition to scriptures that say God would NOT let his holy one remain in Sheol. You claim this in DIRECT opposition to scriptures that say his BODY would NOT see decay.

Quote (Baker @ Jan. 02 2011,19:01)

How can any one think that Jesus' flesh body, scared beyond recognition, could be considered a glorious body? No human body is considered a glorious body.

Plus, what do you make of this scripture, Georg?

Philippians 3:21 NIV
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Why couldn't Jesus' “lowly flesh body” have been similarly “TRANSFORMED” into his glorious body upon his ascension to heaven?

peace and love,
mike

Mike

i got a good question for you ;why did God disposed of Moses body??

if you know it will mostly answer the question of Christ body.

Pierre

January 2, 2011 at 7:33 pm#231104

terraricca

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 03 2011,12:29)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 03 2011,05:23)

Mike

you say;;While I agree with most of this, scripture leads me to believe he didn't have FULL knowledge of his past until the Jordan. (Luke 2:52)

this is not true;wen Jesus was twelve he new,and the fact that he knew is that s why he went to John the baptist to do his fathers will,(to finish his work on earth)

Pierre

Hi Pierre,

I don't claim that Jesus had NO knowledge before the Jordan. But if he had ALL knowledge, then this following scripture makes no sense:

52 And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and man.

How could he GROW IN WISDOM if he already had all wisdom?

peace and love,
mike

Mike

what wisdom did Christ has to gain to do Gods will ??

Pierre

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