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Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,17:58) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,16:19)
He did not resurrect Jesus' body???And God took Jesus' body and hid it or something???
I prefer scripture:
Job 19:25″As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26″Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27Whom I myself shall behold,
And whom my eyes will see and not another.
My heart faints within me!My opinion – Wm
WmTwo things; one, God did not hide the flesh body of Jesus, it was the means by which God could forgive us our sins; when the job was done God disposed of it.
Two, Job is not talking about the body of Jesus, he is referring to his own body. He will see God and Jesus if he is in the first resurrection.
Georg
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.Job said we would see Him in our flesh
John says we shall be like Him
Wm
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,04:41) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,17:58) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,16:19)
He did not resurrect Jesus' body???And God took Jesus' body and hid it or something???
I prefer scripture:
Job 19:25″As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26″Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27Whom I myself shall behold,
And whom my eyes will see and not another.
My heart faints within me!My opinion – Wm
WmTwo things; one, God did not hide the flesh body of Jesus, it was the means by which God could forgive us our sins; when the job was done God disposed of it.
Two, Job is not talking about the body of Jesus, he is referring to his own body. He will see God and Jesus if he is in the first resurrection.
Georg
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.Job said we would see Him in our flesh
John says we shall be like Him
Wm
STunless you are one of the 144000 you will not see Christ the way he realy his
Pierre
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,21:41) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,17:58) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,16:19)
He did not resurrect Jesus' body???And God took Jesus' body and hid it or something???
I prefer scripture:
Job 19:25″As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26″Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27Whom I myself shall behold,
And whom my eyes will see and not another.
My heart faints within me!My opinion – Wm
WmTwo things; one, God did not hide the flesh body of Jesus, it was the means by which God could forgive us our sins; when the job was done God disposed of it.
Two, Job is not talking about the body of Jesus, he is referring to his own body. He will see God and Jesus if he is in the first resurrection.
Georg
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.Job said we would see Him in our flesh
John says we shall be like Him
Wm
Seekingtruth…………..You have it right on this brother.peace and love to you and yours…………………….gene
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,07:01) Luke 24:39, you have to understand that the apostles were in doubt about Jesus them self; they were in a locked room for fear of the people, suddenly there appeared Jesus in their midst; what would you have thought that could be if not a ghost?
Jesus had to manifest himself once he was in the room, other wise they would not have seen him, but his sudden appearance frighted them so he had to identify him self since obviously they did not recognize him by sight.
Only when he showed them his wounds did they believe him.
Jesus assured them it was really him, since a Ghost/spirit has no flesh and bones; why did he not mention blood? when you look at a person, are you in doubt whether he or she has blood under their skin?
That's the best way I know how to explain it.
Hi Georg,Thank you for the scriptures. I understand that “eat of my flesh” and “drink of my blood” would represent both BODY AND BLOOD being sacrificed.
I'm just still stuck on Luke 24:39. I can't bring myself to believe that Jesus LIED to his disciples by saying he WASN'T a spirit when he really was.
You and Pierre like to think spirits can “manifest” flesh and bone bodies as needed. But if that's true, then Jesus also knew this fact, right? And if Jesus was a spirit with a “manifested” body of flesh and bone, then his teaching that spirits don't have flesh and bone is not really accurate, because sometimes they COULD have flesh and bones if they “manifested” them.
I will remain “undecided” on this issue and ask God for guidance and understanding. Georg, if you or Pierre come across a scripture that explains Luke 24:39 without meaning that Jesus told a “half-truth” to his followers, please bring it to my attention.
Until then, I will research and pray about it……….because I'm really stumped and there seem to be scriptures pointing to either conclusion.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,21:02) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 31 2010,19:40) Jesus returned (in spirit form) on “Pentecost”. (Click Here) God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdYour Bible illiteracy is almost funny.
Jesus did not return at Pentecost, he send us the Holy Spirit, just as he had said he would.Georg
Hi Georg,Could you please explain then the meaning of John 14:23 for us all here?
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me,
he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we
will come unto him, and make our abode with him.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,08:58) Irene,
The statement “It is sown a natural body , it is raised a spiritual body” does not preclude the body from having a flesh component.
Hi Wm,I disagree with your statement. The “spiritual body” Paul is talking about is the kind of body those of heaven have. And no flesh can enter into heaven, as I understand it. So I don't see how these “spiritual bodies” could have even an ounce of flesh in them and still be in heaven.
On the other hand, Irene's scripture does NOT say that Jesus must have been raised FROM THE DEAD as a spirit. We know of others in scripture who have been raised FROM THE DEAD as flesh and blood before. We also know about the meek who will be raised FROM THE DEAD to inherit the earth, and I see no reason for those to have the same kind of spiritual bodies that those of heaven have, since they will remain on earth.
So, as I understand it, Jesus most definitely was raised TO HEAVEN in a spiritual body, for scripture says he is a spirit now. But that doesn't necessarily mean he was raised FROM THE DEAD and immediately given a spiritual body. He could have been raised FROM THE DEAD in a flesh body, which would explain why he told his disciples he WASN'T a spirit at that time. Then his body could have later been transformed into a spiritual body when he was raised TO HEAVEN.
I understand Paul to be speaking only of the elect who will go to heaven as being raised………TO HEAVEN……with spiritual bodies. I don't think Paul is saying that everyone who dies will automatically be raised in a spiritual body immediately from the dead – only those who have been called to heaven.
Paul says his hope is for his lowly body to be TRANSFORMED into the kind of glorious body Jesus now has. First, Jesus' body still had a hole in it's side from the spear………..I wouldn't call that his “new glorious body”. Second, the “transformed” language leads me to believe that Jesus could have been raised FROM THE DEAD in a fleshly, earthly body for his 40 days on earth, and then had his body TRANSFORMED into the new, glorious, spiritual body he now has when he was raised TO HEAVEN.
Jesus was “raised” twice, you know. Once FROM THE DEAD, and then later TO HEAVEN.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,09:00) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2010,10:35) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,14:03) I reported your post Terrarica. And I hope the mod here does something.
shimmerthats all members privilege;but at the same time you should read your own comments ,
maybe this would teach you something.
now you just say “this stupid forum” why is this your reflection??
Pierre
My comments Terrarica ? WHEN have I EVER said to any other believer here that they don't know God or His Son ?Never Terrarica. I would never even think that. Only God knows those thing's.
Hi Shimmer,Point taken.
Pierre, would you be so kind as to not take it upon yourself to claim who does and doesn't “KNOW GOD AND HIS SON”?
And Shimmer, you immediately called Pierre “deceitful” and a “liar” after his post.
Shimmer, would you be so kind as to not call others here liars and deceitful?
Thanks in advance to both of you,
ModeratorHi All,
As you've most likely noticed, this page is “out of sync” with the posts. It happens sometimes. The result is that if your post is the last one or two on a page, it won't show up until other post have been added.
Feel free to “double-post”, as I'm sure you want to make sure your post has shown up before moving on and taking the risk of re-posting the same thing later.
When I see the double posts, I will delete the second one.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2010,12:41) rene………..So why was the eyes of those (witholden) from recognizing Jesus if he did not look like he always did? Please don't go off in another direction until you answer that question Specifically for a change if you can. Not one apostle ever said they did not recognize him when they were up close to him. Even Thomas did recognize him even though he did not believe He had been raised from the dead and Jesus let them handle him to prove it was HIS BODY and HIM in it
Hi Gene,Good post. I don't think it's ever said that Jesus' body LOOKED any different. But it is said that the disciples eyes were “closed” to recognizing him or “opened up” to recognize him.
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 31 2010,15:56) To all………… NO Spirits do not have (BODIES) Common SENSE should tell you that
Gene,You post this all the time. Don't just think of “body” as indicating a body like we have. Think of an invisible, flexible “force field” or something. Maybe that will help you.
But the bottom line remains that Jesus IS a spirit now, and Jesus DOES HAVE a body now. And unless you can SCRIPTURALLY refute this, you have no legs on which to stand.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Dec. 31 2010,20:58) On the other hand Jesus is not a spiritual being but will return in the flesh at the time of the end.
Hi Kerwin,I've saw where you and others have posted this. Where in the scriptures does it say that Jesus will return “in the flesh”? And why do you disagree with this scripture:
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 01 2011,02:41) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,07:01) Luke 24:39, you have to understand that the apostles were in doubt about Jesus them self; they were in a locked room for fear of the people, suddenly there appeared Jesus in their midst; what would you have thought that could be if not a ghost?
Jesus had to manifest himself once he was in the room, other wise they would not have seen him, but his sudden appearance frighted them so he had to identify him self since obviously they did not recognize him by sight.
Only when he showed them his wounds did they believe him.
Jesus assured them it was really him, since a Ghost/spirit has no flesh and bones; why did he not mention blood? when you look at a person, are you in doubt whether he or she has blood under their skin?
That's the best way I know how to explain it.
Hi Georg,Thank you for the scriptures. I understand that “eat of my flesh” and “drink of my blood” would represent both BODY AND BLOOD being sacrificed.
I'm just still stuck on Luke 24:39. I can't bring myself to believe that Jesus LIED to his disciples by saying he WASN'T a spirit when he really was.
You and Pierre like to think spirits can “manifest” flesh and bone bodies as needed. But if that's true, then Jesus also knew this fact, right? And if Jesus was a spirit with a “manifested” body of flesh and bone, then his teaching that spirits don't have flesh and bone is not really accurate, because sometimes they COULD have flesh and bones if they “manifested” them.
I will remain “undecided” on this issue and ask God for guidance and understanding. Georg, if you or Pierre come across a scripture that explains Luke 24:39 without meaning that Jesus told a “half-truth” to his followers, please bring it to my attention.
Until then, I will research and pray about it……….because I'm really stumped and there seem to be scriptures pointing to either conclusion.
peace and love,
mike
MikeHere is the scripture you been looking for.
Jhn 20:18 Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her.
Jhn 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
Jhn 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Be sure to pay close attention to verse 19.
For a “spirit” to be seen by a human, he has to take on a human body. Notice, after he showed them his hands and side did they know it was the Lord.Georg
Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 01 2011,02:46) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,21:02) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 31 2010,19:40) Jesus returned (in spirit form) on “Pentecost”. (Click Here) God bless
Ed J
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdYour Bible illiteracy is almost funny.
Jesus did not return at Pentecost, he send us the Holy Spirit, just as he had said he would.Georg
Hi Georg,Could you please explain then the meaning of John 14:23 for us all here?
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me,
he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we
will come unto him, and make our abode with him.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org
EdQuite easy, look at this scripture.
Phl 2:5 ¶ Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
What “mind” was it that was in Christ Jesus? it was the Fathers Holy Mind/Spirit. It is through the Fathers Mind that we also have the “mind” of Jesus in us.
Georg
Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,21:41) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 31 2010,17:58) Quote (seekingtruth @ Dec. 31 2010,16:19)
He did not resurrect Jesus' body???And God took Jesus' body and hid it or something???
I prefer scripture:
Job 19:25″As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26″Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
27Whom I myself shall behold,
And whom my eyes will see and not another.
My heart faints within me!My opinion – Wm
WmTwo things; one, God did not hide the flesh body of Jesus, it was the means by which God could forgive us our sins; when the job was done God disposed of it.
Two, Job is not talking about the body of Jesus, he is referring to his own body. He will see God and Jesus if he is in the first resurrection.
Georg
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.Job said we would see Him in our flesh
John says we shall be like Him
Wm
WmJesus said, “if you see me, you have seen the Father.”
The Bible also says, “no man can see God and live.”
Jesus came to reveal the Father to us, the only way any human will ever “see” God is, through a spiritual understanding.John was talking to the saints, those that would come up in the first resurrection, they will be spirit beings also, they will see Jesus as he is.
Georg
Mike,
Zechariah 13:1 “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity. 2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the LORD Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land. 3 And if anyone still prophesies, their father and mother, to whom they were born, will say to them, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the LORD’s name.’ Then their own parents will stab the one who prophesies. 4 “On that day every prophet will be ashamed of their prophetic vision. They will not put on a prophet’s garment of hair in order to deceive. 5 Each will say, ‘I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood since my youth.[a]’ 6 If someone asks, ‘What are these wounds on your body?’ they will answer, ‘The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.’This is in the future for us and He still has the wounds,
1 Corinthians 15:50
[ The Mystery of Resurrection ] Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.I believe that Jesus was raised in the flesh and has and will remain so. Someone asked me once why Jesus said flesh and bone instead of flesh and blood, you'll note that the above verse does not say flesh or blood, but flesh and blood. Perhaps there is no blood in a resurrected body and that is what makes it imperishable.
As to Jesus was “raised” twice, “He ascended on high” is different from resurrection.
My opinion – Wm
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 31 2010,20:46) Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 31 2010,17:21) Gene we know your opinion stand for nothing but wind,and most of the time with dust.
you have eyes and you can read better than I,this I know and can see,but so also could the pharisees.Pierre
Gene and all, In the past I would never report a post. I have had things said to me, and I have kept quiet. I have seen all kinds of things said to others and I have kept quiet. Lately I have no doubt myself said thing's to people. I have decided though that from now on I will report whatever I see if it is harmfull to a persons spiritual wellbeing. We shouldnt tolerate it. See how easily others got tiled and banned. Then other's still get away with it. We dont need to tolerate it.If I have said anything here to upset anyone, then I apologise. Jay was only speaking truth and He got frustrated because no-one listened, and everyone got frustrated in the end. SeekingTruths signature verse say's it all. And we should all be seeking truth and not causing wars or divisions.
Everyone should have a right here to have a say. We are all at different levels of understanding. The weak should be cared for, the less knowledgable taught…truthfully. No-one should be scared to ask a question and no-one should be scared of people understanding something wrong. We are all different and we should all be treated as such, but we should all also be treated equal with no favourite treatment of individuals.
None of this is Christian like. And it should stop.
Shimmer, I agree with you that nobody should put another down like Gene, and even Pierre has done. I have been wrongly accused of being the one that took JA of this Forum, and that I have the Spirit of Anti-Christ because I believe that Jesus preexisted, more then once has he done so. That should never be aloud. Also flooding a tread with accusation over and over again, should not be aloud. It simple is not like a Christian….Peace Irene
PS look at Georg's post to Mike, there is the scripture where Jesus appeared through closed Doors….No flesh and Blood can do so….Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,05:52) Mike,
Zechariah 13:1 “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity. 2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the LORD Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land. 3 And if anyone still prophesies, their father and mother, to whom they were born, will say to them, ‘You must die, because you have told lies in the LORD’s name.’ Then their own parents will stab the one who prophesies. 4 “On that day every prophet will be ashamed of their prophetic vision. They will not put on a prophet’s garment of hair in order to deceive. 5 Each will say, ‘I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood since my youth.[a]’ 6 If someone asks, ‘What are these wounds on your body?’ they will answer, ‘The wounds I was given at the house of my friends.’This is in the future for us and He still has the wounds,
1 Corinthians 15:50
[ The Mystery of Resurrection ] Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.I believe that Jesus was raised in the flesh and has and will remain so. Someone asked me once why Jesus said flesh and bone instead of flesh and blood, you'll note that the above verse does not say flesh or blood, but flesh and blood. Perhaps there is no blood in a resurrected body and that is what makes it imperishable.
As to Jesus was “raised” twice, “He ascended on high” is different from resurrection.
My opinion – Wm
Wm did you not read Georg's post to you were He shows you a Scripture were Jesus appeared to the Apostles who were behind closed doors? No Flesh and blood can do that.Jhn 20:19 ¶ Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.
Jhn 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them [his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
Jhn 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
Jhn 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on [them], and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
Jhn 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.
Jhn 20:24 ¶ But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
Jhn 20:25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Jhn 20:26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you.
Jhn 20:27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
Jhn 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
Jhn 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed [are] they that have not seen, and [yet] have believed.
Jhn 20:30 ¶ And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
Peace Irene
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 01 2011,06:20) Don't you think I've read that, how do you know what we can or cannot do in our glorified bodies. Wm
Wm! what are you talking about 'WE' it is Jesus that apopeared through closed doors….Peace IreneQuote (Baker @ Jan. 01 2011,05:18) Be sure to pay close attention to verse 19.
For a “spirit” to be seen by a human, he has to take on a human body. Notice, after he showed them his hands and side did they know it was the Lord.
Hi Georg,And YOU be sure to pay close attention to verse 20.
Jesus showed them his hands and side to prove what? Most likely that he was the risen Lord. What you suggest is that the SPIRIT Jesus “manifested” a body, complete with holes in the hands and the side for proof. What you suggest means that Jesus LIED to his disciples by telling them he was NOT a spirit. If Jesus showed them his scars as proof it was really him who was raised, but he was really a spirit at the time who just “manifested” a fake body to mislead them, I think that would have been deceitful. And I don't think Jesus would be deceitful, do you?What I suggest is that Jesus was raised BACK TO EARTH with his same body, which could just as easily been “collected” by God as a ransom 40 days later when Jesus ascended to heaven in his new, transformed, spiritual body.
I don't know who's right about this, but my suggestion eliminates the possibility of Jesus LYING, while yours makes Jesus out to be a liar and deceiver – things Jesus said Satan was.
peace and love,
mike
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