Do spirits have bodies?

[Baker]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2010,03:08)

Quote (Baker @ Dec. 25 2010,18:19) Jesus never sinned, his “mind” was pure, it was his flesh body that took on Adam's sin. It was his flesh body that became the “ransom”, the exchange for Adam. Hi Georg, I agree with the above part. Quote (Baker @ Dec. 25 2010,18:19) Jesus was dead for three days, when God raised him up, he gave him back his nature he had before, spirit nature. Had Jesus been resurrected in a flesh body, it would have been as taking back the ransom. This part is a little tricky for me.  Is it the “BODY” itself that was the sacrifice……..or the loss of life?  I have a few problems with Jesus being raised immediately from the grave as a spirit. 1.  Jesus point blank told his disciples, who were thinking he WAS a spirit, that he was NOT. Luke 24:39 Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have.” Georg, don't you think this would have been a deceitful thing for Jesus to say if he was in fact a spirit at this point? 2.  Paul says that Jesus' BODY “would NOT see decay” like David's body DID see decay.  He definitely makes a contrast between the body of Jesus and the body of David – both servants of their God. Acts 2 29 “Fellow Israelites, I can tell you confidently that the patriarch David died and was buried, and his tomb is here to this day. 30 But he was a prophet and knew that God had promised him on oath that he would place one of his descendants on his throne. 31 Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. Acts 13 36 “Now when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his ancestors and his body decayed. 37 But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay. Let's start with these.  What do you guys say? peace and love, mike

Mike

If only dying was the penalty for sin, and then live again, why did “JESUS” have to come and die for us?
Why was it necessary for the Israeli's to offer up sacrifices for their sins before Christ?

Hbr 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

If the Father had raised up Jesus in his flesh body, could he not have done so with Adam?

Adam's sin contaminated all of us, we are cursed with death even before we committed any sin. We were doomed to die before we were born.

Why did Jesus have to tell his apostles that he was “not” a spirit? because they did not recognize him, he did not look the same.
Here are some scriptures, think about them.
First, this is what Paul says about Jesus.

2 Cor. 5:16 “Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.”

Jesus no longer looked the same, which also explains why all his friends did not recognize him by sight.

John 20:15 “Jesus said unto her (Mary Magdalene), Woman, why weepest thou? Whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have born him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.”

John 21:4 “But when the morning now was come, Jesus stood on the shore; but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.”

Luke 24:15 “And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew
near, and went with them.”

v. 16 “But their eyes were holden that they should not know him.”

Thomas became a believer because Jesus showed him the wounds, not because he recognized him, (John 20:26-29). Jesus could not appear in the same likeness as before; that body had taken on all of our sins; that body was the exchange for Adam; that body was the ransom; that bosy had to remain dead because that is the penalty for sin, death, (Rom. 6:23).

Jesus had to manifest himself for the apostles, other wise they would not have been able to see him.
Could flesh and bones have come through the walls, and locked door?
God had given his son a human body, why? because he came to die for humans, and spirit beings can not die. Jesus was a spirit being before he became one of us, God exchanged his spirit body for a flesh body, but, his mind was the same as before he became human. he knew were he came from, he knew why he had come, he knew who his Father was; even the devils recognized him.

Mat 8:28 ¶ And when he was come to the other side into the country of the Gergesenes, there met him two possessed with devils, coming out of the tombs, exceeding fierce, so that no man might pass by that way.

Mat 8:29 And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time?

Jesus gave up his glory as a spirit being, and lowered himself, becoming one of us; after becoming our sacrifice the Father gave him back his former glory, spirit body. His flesh body had taken on all of our sins, that was the purpose of his coming, that flesh body “had” to remain dead, think about it.
God would not allow “that” body to see decay, would not allow “that” body to remain in the grave for obvious reason, don't you think? Just look what people are doing with the shroud of Turin, what would they have done with the flesh body of Jesus? God simply did away with it.

Georg

[shimmer]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2010,20:53)

[/quote] JustAskin,Dec. wrote: When i asked Mike if the Holy Spirit has a body he said 'Yes, God'. But Scriptures says 'God is a Spirit'. So Mike is saying that God is the BODY of the Holy Spirit. Mike says that God, who is Spirit is the BODY of the Holy Spirit… So does the HOLY SPIRIT have a body… Does the HOLY SPIRIT have a body… Does the HOLY SPIRIT have a body… ummm… The Holy Spirit DOES NOT HAVE A BODY because …The BODY… the container … of the Holy Spirit is God. Does Gas have a body? Does the air have a body…no but it can be contained IN a BODY (Gene is right here) So does the gas have a body, does the Air have a body – if it is contained in a body, a can, a balloon, a cycle innertube…where does it go when it is released from the container into open air… Mike says two Spirits can't coexist in the same space because they have bodies that separate them one from the other…yet how did a legion of Demon Angels inhabit the one man. And how does Jesus indwell all of us with his one BODY. And how does God indwell all of us with his one BODY. Now, if the Spirit of Jesus is omnipresent, then he can be everywhere in us, without us, around us…so how is that a body? A gas can be IN US, around us, without us, everywhere…and we can gather it in one place and put it in a body and discover it's properties, probe it's natures, measure it's parameters of operations. How could we do that of it had a body…a single body…only one 'gas' could be in one place at one time. Jesus could only be in one place at one time… This is why Jesus said, “I have to go away…because unless I go away, the Holy Spirit, the comforter cannot come”. On earth, Jesus was in the Flesh, one man in one place at one time… for him to perform the great task, he had to be everywhere at all times…which meant putting off the flesh and becoming Spirit…

Good post.  

I was reading here,

http://bible.org/seriespage/god-spirit

Quote…….”God is Spirit. Jesus did not leave any doubt about this truth. God is Spirit.

But what does that mean? Some have a strange idea about what a spirit is. That is particularly true of children. To them spirits mean ghosts.

He Is Invisible. We can know Him apart from our physical senses

Just about everybody knows that a spirit cannot be seen. We cannot even see a human spirit. The most intimate of friends cannot see each other’s spirit and none of us can see God. Paul called Him “the invisible God” (Colossians 1:15), and “the King eternal, immortal, invisible” (1 Timothy 1:17).

John assured us that “no man has seen God at any time” (John 1:18). Mortal men have seen visible manifestations which God used to reveal Himself to them and to communicate with them, as when God the Son took human form in a Bethlehem manger. But they have never seen Him fully in His spiritual being. There is no way they could. Spirits are invisible.

Rather than spooking us out, that can be a very comforting truth. Because God is invisible, not only can we know Him, but we can know Him apart from our physical senses. We do not have to see Him or feel Him to know Him. We have spirits too, you see. God is spirit, but we have spirits housed within our physical bodies. And when our spirits are made alive toward God through the new birth, we have the capacity to commune with Him in our spirits, anytime, anywhere, and under any circumstances.

Communion with God does not depend on external things because it takes place internally in the spiritual part of our being. That was the point of Jesus’ comment to the woman at the well. Since God is spirit we must worship Him in spirit. Worship is not primarily a matter of physical location, surroundings, form, ritual, liturgy, or ceremony. It is not a matter of creating a certain kind of mood or atmosphere. It is a matter of spirit.

It is difficult for us to grasp this truth since our spirits live in physical bodies and our physical bodies inhabit a physical universe. Our occupation with the physical makes us try to put our relationship with God into that same realm….. We know Him and enjoy Him in the spiritual realm, apart from the physical senses.

He Is Immaterial. Knowing Him delivers us from bondage to material things

The major thing we learn about God as spirit is that He is immaterial. By that we do not mean He is insignificant or unimportant, but rather, incorporeal. He does not have a body. Jesus reaffirmed that fact to His frightened disciples shortly after the resurrection. When He entered the room in His glorified body they thought they had seen a spirit. He calmed them by saying, “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have” (Luke 24:39). Spirits do not have bodies.

This seems to present a problem, however, since Scripture does refer to God at times as though He has a body. For example, it mentions His hand and His ear (Isaiah 59:1), His eye (2 Chronicles 16:9), and His mouth (Matthew 4:4). Theologians call these anthropomorphisms, a word meaning “human form.” They are symbolic representations used to make God’s actions more understandable to our finite minds. But God has no material substance and He is not dependent on any material thing. He dwells in the realm of spirit.”…….unquote

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2010,07:05)

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2010,21:50) A simple yes or no will NOT do! Your question cannot be answered with a yes or a no? Hi Ed, I thought the same thing when I saw Shimmer's post.     But we all know what she meant, right?  She's looking for a DIRECT answer to her question, not more of your numbers I think.   peace and love, mike

Ha ha thanks.  Thats exactly what I meant. A short and simple answer, and not post after post, and on topic, not going off into other things, which is why Ed I was carefull what I quoted of yours. I also gave a link to your whole thread, so people could read the whole thing if they wanted to. So why do you have a problem that I only quoted part of what was on your thread ? If you have a problem with it, report it. Then maybe you wont be feeling so angry with me.

[Ed J]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 26 2010,20:06)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2010,07:05) Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2010,21:50) A simple yes or no will NOT do! Your question cannot be answered with a yes or a no? Hi Ed, I thought the same thing when I saw Shimmer's post.     But we all know what she meant, right?  She's looking for a DIRECT answer to her question, not more of your numbers I think.   peace and love, mike Ha ha thanks.  Thats exactly what I meant. A short and simple answer, and not post after post, and on topic, not going off into other things, which is why Ed I was carefull what I quoted of yours. I also gave a link to your whole thread, so people could read the whole thing if they wanted to. So why do you have a problem that I only quoted part of what was on your thread ? If you have a problem with it, report it. Then maybe you wont be feeling so angry with me.

Hi Shimmer,

I'm actually glad you did it! (Click Here) <– Eighth Post
I don't consider it a problem that you only quoted part of my Post,
but you left out the part that related directly to the question you asked me!
As I told you before: I eliminated anger out of my life long ago! (Col.3:8 / James 1:20)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[shimmer]

OK. I apologise then Ed. So do you believe that Jesus was risen from the dead in flesh and bone as we have ? YES or NO ?

[Ed J]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 26 2010,20:39)

OK. I apologise then Ed. So do you believe that Jesus was risen from the dead in flesh and bone as we have ? YES or NO ?

Hi Shimmer,

His resurrected body was transformed; a renewed body, not what we have.
His resurrected body was able to shift into other dimensions.
He materialized into a locked room. (John 20:19)
And he de-materialized. (Luke 24:31)

We don't have our resurrected bodies yet!
Something to look forward to; huh?
possibly time travel capable?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2010,05:16)

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 25 2010,18:36) And nearly all other Christan people will agree with this…  that Jesus was raised from the dead in the flesh, and that after so many days he assended in his glorified body to heaven. And this is the truth and these are the facts. Hi Shimmer, You are right.  These are the facts.  In what way do you think Jesus' “glorified” body was different from the one he was raised in?   This thread was to discuss whether or not spirits have bodies, Shimmer.  Jesus IS a spirit.  Jesus DOES have a body.  These are also the facts.  So do you also believe this to be the truth? mike

Hi Mike.

Spirit is invisible.

Soul is invisible.

We are Bodies and we have a Spirit and we have a Soul.

The Spirit, Soul and Body can be divided.

“For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.”

There are three parts to us. Two are invisible.

Jesus had a body and he had God in him, and he had the Holy Spirit in him, both invisible.

No-one can ever see God, or the Holy Spirit, but Jesus can be seen.

No-one can ever see our Spirit or Soul, but our flesh can be seen.

Just thought's thats all.

[shimmer]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2010,23:05)

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 26 2010,20:39) OK. I apologise then Ed. So do you believe that Jesus was risen from the dead in flesh and bone as we have ? YES or NO ? Hi Shimmer, His resurrected body was transformed; a renewed body, not what we have. His resurrected body was able to shift into other dimensions. He materialized into a locked room. (John 20:19) And he de-materialized. (Luke 24:31) We don't have our resurrected bodies yet! Something to look forward to; huh? possibly time travel capable? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Thats true Ed. But did he have flesh and bone in his resurrected body ? The one he showed the Disciples I mean. IYO.

[Ed J]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 26 2010,21:47)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2010,05:16) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 25 2010,18:36) And nearly all other Christan people will agree with this…  that Jesus was raised from the dead in the flesh, and that after so many days he assended in his glorified body to heaven. And this is the truth and these are the facts. Hi Shimmer, You are right.  These are the facts.  In what way do you think Jesus' “glorified” body was different from the one he was raised in?   This thread was to discuss whether or not spirits have bodies, Shimmer.  Jesus IS a spirit.  Jesus DOES have a body.  These are also the facts.  So do you also believe this to be the truth? mike Hi Mike. Spirit is invisible. Soul is invisible. We are Bodies and we have a Spirit and we have a Soul. The Spirit, Soul and Body can be divided. “For the word of God is living, and active, and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing even to the dividing of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart.” There are three parts to us. Two are invisible. Jesus had a body and he had God in him, and he had the Holy Spirit in him, both invisible. No-one can ever see God, or the Holy Spirit, but Jesus can be seen. No-one can ever see our Spirit or Soul, but our flesh can be seen. Just thought's thats all.

Hi Shimmer,

The “HolySpirit” and “God The Father” are one and the same. (Click Here)

Deut.6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

Eph.4:4-6 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord,
one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who
is above all, and through all, and in you all.

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[shimmer]

Ed, get back to you on that. Ok.

[Ed J]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 26 2010,22:06)

Ed, get back to you on that. Ok.

OK.

[shimmer]

And Mike, don't be fooled. It seems people are trying to lead you the other way.

What does it say… “If you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

Antichrist denies the flesh it say's. And what did Jesus say about his flesh ? “Spirits dont have flesh like I have.”… They knew and believed…”Blessed is he who has not seen yet believes”…..”Believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, and you will be saved.” It's important.

People here and (I think JWs) and all of the Armstrong branches, will tell you that theres a second change. That during the 'millenium' all will have a chance to hear the truth and accept it or not. So it doesnt really matter if you get it wrong.

However Jesus say's something else. Jesus say's “This good news of the coming kingdom will be preached as a witness to all the nations (Today that's happened) and then THE END will come.

I believe in Amillenialsim. The 'thousand years' of Revelations is the thousands of years between when Christ went to Heaven untill today, untill the end. I check Revelations with what Jesus said. All Eastern Orthodox, Catholic, etc believe in Amillenialism as I do. It fits in with 2nd Peter 3. The day of the Lord will come burning with heat, it's the return of the Lord. THE END as Jesus said would happen.

And Jesus said ” Behold, now is the acceptable time. Behold, now is the day of salvation”.

[Ed J]

Hi Shimmer,

Since we're now in “the day of the LORD”,
the rudiments are all starting to burn up!

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[JustAskin]

A body of any kind, consists of material matter.

Just because the Scriptures only says 'flesh and blood' cannot enter Heaven, doesn't exclude ALL Material matter. What then of 'bone'…or, a tree, or a brick…. 'Flesh' covers all material matter, all things of physical substance.
Flesh covers all 'solidly shaped' material.
Blood covers all 'Fluid nonshaped' material.

Hence, ALL Material matter is coveredby the term 'Flesh and Blood'.

So…No Material Matter, can enter Heaven.

And this is obvious when you understand 'Dimensions'.

No material matter exists in the fifth dimension.

Material matter only exists up to the fourth dimension…which is the earthly, three dimensional environment we, as humans, exist in…along with Time, the fourth dimensional aspect.

One dimension…a straight line.
Two dimension…area.
Three dimensions…volume.

One dimension. An entity at one point only….add, theoretically, the fourth dimension..time…an entity moving along a straight line…left or right only… One position at any one moment in time only…

Two dimensions. The entity at one single point up, down, left, right…add time…the entity moving from it's current position to any single Contiguous position in any one moment of time…only one immediately adjoining position in any one moment of time…movement…

Three dimensions…repeat dimension two but also backwards forwards…up, down, left, right….in moments of time…

Is this not where we are…can we move 'nonContiguously', can we suddenly move from our current position…to another, far position…without going through all intervening positions? No.

So, what can we do if we were to attain the FIFTH Dimension…?
Yes, 'Space Travel'…I don't mean, outer Space…but, or maybe i do…nonContiguous movement…

We could be at home one moment…then be at our friends house in the very next moment…
How did the Legion of demon Angels move from the Madman's body into the pig's in a moment of time? Did they have to climb out of the man and walk over to the pigs? Scriptures says the pigs were quite a distance away…
But see, the demons were still only in One Place in any One Moment of time…but could be in ANY ONE Place…in the man, then noncontiguously, a mile away, the next moment…how many moments would it have taken to move contiguously from the man to the pigs?

S, Jesus could be in Capernaum in one moment, preach there, then be inside the locked room with his disciples in the next moment….the fifth dimension…

ShouldI weiry nonbelievers with the Sixth Dimension…More than ONE PLACE in the SAME MOMENT of TIME?

You say, impossible? What? Are you kidding?

No, not in the flesh nor in the blood.

But in the ….SPIRIT….

Everyone around the world get a Computer, Laptop, Tablet PC, Mobile Phone, connected by WIFI, direct Broadband, Mobile Internet…whatever…
Can one person not speak…from one place, in Spirit, to everyone connected…
Here, then, is a crude, Sixth dimension.
Crude, because people can choose not to connect….crude because the Speaker cannot 'climb down' the dimensions and 'MANIFEST' hmself to anyone….

What does 'Manifest' mean?

So, in the IMMATERIAL Spirit, we can be anywhere, anytime, forward time only though….

Now the Seventh Dimension…don't even go there…EVERYWHERE AT ALL TIMES BACKWARDS NOW OR FORWARDS in time.

Forwards in time doesn't mean it's already happened …but…that the combined effect of all our consequential action now…can be seen…and the tiniest change…will be weighed in those changes.

Can we not do that already to a limited degree…what then of God?
Who can play Chess?
Is this not a 'god' game… Can you see the end result right from the first move? Not always…but against a weak opponent, yes.
Do we not 'plan' our day, our week, our month, our year?
Why? Because we are made in the image of God, and God plans…sees the end right at the start…basically, what he wants to achieve, and sets about achieving it, as we do…but include all the vagarious altercations that we encounter on the way towards our goal.

[JustAskin]

Oh, and Mikeboll,

The answer to your, oh so obvious question: “The first man Adam became a living being”.

Mike, notice that the verse is not a continuous quote…only the first part is quoted.
The second part is only a qualifier:
!the last Adam became a lifegiving Spirit!

Yes, Jesus 'became' a Spirit…what of it? Once again you are straining at finding what you THINK are meaningful but really, you are taking them out of context.

Jesus was raised up into the same flesh and blood body….then taken up to Heaven in the Spirit….God granted him the right to be the author of Salvation, to give life to believers..,he 'became' a Spirit…after he was raised in flesh.

Read Acts 13:29…
Two things there…it shows when God raised Jesus from the dead with his body not seeing corruption…Lazarus, was the precursor of this event…dead for how many days, stinking, smelling, rotting flesh…corrupted flesh…yet was restored whole…for time…So why do you say now…this new corrupt idea of Terra and yours, that Jesus' body is still dead???

Mike, why do you damage yourself so….where on earth did this, 'Jesus's body is still dead' and 'ransom' thing come from…ho ho ho..you gonna say, JA, you don't believe Jesus was a ransom?'…tut tut, Mikeboll…Satan has you hooked good and proper…you know I know that Jesus died as a ransom.

The point is, Jesus died…yes, a sinless man died despite being sinless…he died..only because he took upon himself ALL the sins of MANKIND all at the same time….he bled …blood from his pores, such was the stress…
And yet, he believed, trusted, had full faith, with only one wavering moment, 'Father, if this cup could be taken away from me…' and then recover, 'not for my will, but for yours'.

Do you think that death on the cross alone was any more painfull for Jesus thananyone else who died on a cross, or had their body pulled apart by wild horses, or covered in wax and set alight as human candles to amuse the Romans, or eaten by forcefully starved lions and tigers, or hung upside down until the heart gave way from lack of being able to pump blood…no Mike, no, it wasn't that less or more painful, nor humiliating, 'He who is hung on a tree is despised'…no, it was because he, Jesus, had the weight of the sins of the world crushing him…remember, he died before the others…he died before a normal hanging person should have died…because it wasn't the hanging that killed him, but the having achieved, he 'gave up' his Spirit, where normal man tries to hang on to it, naturally…

The second point of Acts 13:29, is that it clearly shows, like Ephesians and Romans 1:4, where itis written, God raised up Jesus and said, 'You are My Son, Today I have become your Father'….

Mike, two wrongs, yet even three, and you still squirm….

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……….The whole concept of Flesh and blood can't enter the kingdom of Heaven , has nothing to do with flesh and blood going into outer space at all. What it has to do with is that the flesh and blood part of Man in not capable of entering the kingdom of GOD, because flesh and blood is not (Spirit), Spirit is what is (IN) flesh and blood , the body is just a temple or house for the spirit and the Spirit of GOD , which is where the Kingdom of God is, It the SPIRIT of GOD, can inter into that flesh and blood body, it was (IN) Jesus , the kingdom of God was working (in Jesus who was a flesh and blood being). “THE KINGDOM OF GOD COMES WITHOUT (OBSERVATION) IT IS (WITHIN) YOU”, can't anyone here understand that?

SPIRITS DO NOT HAVE BODIES OF ANY KIND THEY NEVER DID, SPIRIT IS USELESS WITHOUT A BODY OF SOME KIND TO BE IN AND ANIMATE. Why do you think GOD created a (PHYSICAL) universe and created the earth with its billions of various (PHYSICAL) life forms in it, in the first place, these life forms are places for spirits to dwell and cause life to be lived and function, and that includes Man.

God is not going to destory his creation ever, but will deliver it from its bondage of corruption and cause it to exist for ever. There is absolutely nothing wrong with our wonderful world we live in , its just the evil that is effecting it that needs to be removed and it will turn into a paradise of beauty and spindler giving Glory to its creator our heavenly FATHER the ONE AND ONLY CREATOR GOD for ever. IMO

Peace and love…………………………………gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

Edj, Just google this “jesus puts off the flesh and goes into heaven”.

For someone who claims to use nothing but scripture, you sure are Googling alot lately.    Good for you JA.  You've finally figured out that even the scriptures as we know them were written by many men with many varying understandings of what they were writing.  It is good to research the facts to the most base level we can and then make our own informed decision.  I even see where t8 added NETNotes to his research sources list on the home page.  

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

Flesh and Blood cannot enter heaven…therefore he must put off the Flesh before doing so.

While I agree that Jesus cannot have a flesh body in heaven, I don't consider it as him “putting off the flesh”, but rather having his flesh body “transformed” into a glorious spiritual body.  Paul said his hope was to have his lowly flesh body TRANSFORMED into a glorious body like Jesus now has.  (Phil 3:21)

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

Jesus was clearly REAL FLESH and Blood as he Proved to Thomas…Scriptures is written for a purpose…

I agree that Jesus was raised from the dead in a flesh body.  But I don't think the Thomas scripture proves that.  I think the scripture where Jesus said “a spirit does not have flesh and bone………AS YOU SEE I HAVE” proves it.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

Also, it is COMMON SENSE that a SPIRIT being cannot have a body as their domain is in the IMMATERIAL HEAVEN

The Characteristics of AngelsAug 2, 2000 … Angels represent these immaterial bodies in the world of the inner dimensions of things, and express their praise. …
http://www.thewaytotruth.org/metaphysicaldimension/angels.html

Contacting The Master's HouseIn like manner the “spiritual” body of 1 Corinthians 15:44 is not an immaterial body, but one that is energized or enlivened by the Spirit in a way that it …
http://www.charteroaklighthouse.org/issues…/witnesses_bowman_onken.htm

The bread, the wine and the immaterial body: Saint Symeon the new …Title, The bread, the wine and the immaterial body: Saint Symeon the new theologian on the Eucharistic Mysteries. Publication Type, Book Chapter …
http://www.ceu.hu/node/11532

These are just a few of the listing of “immaterial body” from Google.  The first is some Islamic information.  The second is a man explaining how to answer JW's about 1 Cor 15.  And while this man believes Jesus to have been raised in the flesh to heaven, he doesn't argue that there aren't immaterial bodies, only that Jesus doesn't have one now.  The third is an invitation to a lecture about immaterial bodies.

I didn't bother searching too long, just enough to be able to show you there are those who consider “immaterial bodies” to be a real thing.

That being said, my current understanding is that there are no “immaterial bodies”.  I think everything in existence is composed of material.  We would have considered atoms as “immaterial” before the invention of the electron microscope.  And we can readily see the activity of a human brain as it is thinking in a catscan.  Just because to our limited knowledge those thoughts themselves are considered “immaterial” does not mean they are.  Radio waves are not “immaterial”.  

Look, we can't pick up an individual atom with our fingers and “feel it” with our fingertips, but we know it is a material object.  How about prayers?  They are but thoughts to God, yet He saves them in heaven according to Revelation.  When the dead are raised, they will most likely be judged not only for what they DID, but also for what they THOUGHT.  For Jesus says that even THINKING about a woman in the wrong way constitutes completing the immoral sin.

Now we can video record things and play them back later.  How can God “replay” someone's thoughts later when they are being judged?  I don't believe thoughts are “immaterial” to God.  In fact I don't believe ANYTHING is “immaterial” to God's eyes.  Just because we cannot see it or detect it with our limited means does not mean it isn't there and material.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

A Body, I asked Mike to define and he refused – why? easy…he can't stand to show you this:

I didn't refuse the first 6 times I explained it to you.  I just eventually start refusing to post the same things over and over.  Pierre even pointed out to you what I was saying – and still, you post something like this.    JA, are you listening?  A body is anything that separtates one thing from another thing.  Without this separation, there could not be more than one thing in existence.  The more things in existence, the more bodies needed to SEPARATE one thing from the others.  You are stuck in the flesh JA.  You think because we cannot SEE an angel's body, it doesn't have one.  That is your own misconception based on your own limited human brain.  Sorry, but I don't share your misconception.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

“A body is composed of material matter”

I agree.  But I also think even a thought is made of material matter in the eyes of God.  At first we thought molecules were the bottom line.  Then it was atoms.  And now we know of even smaller building blocks like amino acids.  Do you think we've reached the rock bottom of the building blocks of existence now?  Do you think there can't be anything smaller that we have not yet “discovered”?

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

I asked him to define Spirit — he swaggered about then came up with some nonesense…so here it is: “A spirit is an Immaterial entity, invisible, not composed of matter”

Please show where I said that.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

Mike then claims that “Jesus DID NOT take on the NATURE of an Angel but took the SEED of Abraham”…

Show where I said that please.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

What is the NATURE OF SPIRIT – Mike, in desperation, thought he's found something – he knew it was nothing but he pitched it anyway…any port in a storm… INVISIBLE, FORMLESS, FULL OF POWER..

Please show where I said that.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

When he is Spirit our eyes cannot see him…and he will come again in the flesh…How will he COME AGAIN in the FLESH if he is ALREADY in the Flesh in heaven

Scripture doesn't say Jesus will come again in the flesh.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,08:45)

then we should be able ' as MIKEBOLL says, be able to 'Train a Telescope into the heavens, and see Jesus' because he is in a body in the CELESTIAL HEAVENS.

I didn't say that JA.  I said that if Jesus WAS still flesh in heaven, then he would be the only visible being in heaven.  I made a joke that if Jesus WAS still flesh and therefore the only visible being in heaven, then if someone trained a telescope at just the right place at just the right time, they could see Jesus, seemingly all alone in heaven.  It was a joke to Shimmer to show how silly it is to think Jesus could still be a flesh being existing in the heavens amongst many other non-flesh beings.

I see where you also posted Georg's thoughts about God being the body of the Holy Spirit and attributed that statement to me………..AGAIN.  After I told you yesterday that it was not me, but Georg who said that.  JA, if you can't fully comprehend who is saying what on this site, maybe you're not ready to be a member here.  You are attibuting thoughts to me that I've been arguing AGAINST on this thread for months.  

I have a suggestion for you.  Do like I and many others do here:  Post what the other said in a quote box above your answer to what they said.  Then all is right there in black and white (unless you're Ed J – then it is in black, white, blue, red, yellow, gold, green, etc.    ) for all to see.  Not only that, but it would show you're responsible enough to actually address those individual points that the other made.  This is how I always do it JA.  Just like I've done in this post.  I quote your EXACT words, and then give my answer.  I don't just go around misrepresenting things you believe with no quotes to back up that you actually said what I claim you said.

And finally, it is sad that while your whole post was to Ed, it was my name that was brought up an smeared thoughout it.  Why is it that you can't ever actually address my points as they're brought up to you, but can misrepresent them in posts to others who didn't even bring me up?  I saw where you did it in mikeangels thread yesterday.  He was asking for prayer, and you took the opportunity to launch a presonsal attack against me out of the blue.  

You must stop this obsession with me JA.  You remind me of a junior high school girl who was thwarted by the “man of her dreams” and so goes out of her way all through high school to try and make her thwarter look bad.  Please, stop it. Address my points AS they are made to you, or leave me out of your posts.

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2010,08:53)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 26 2010,05:24) JA, Jesus is a spirit and Jesus has a body.  So, do spirits have bodies?  YES or NO? mike Hi Mike, We are “Spirit beings”, and we have “Bodies”. Our spirit beings do have bodies; called human. So the (real) questions are… 1) Do Angelic beings have bodies?     This depends how you are defining the word “Bodies”? 2) Does (YHVH) God have a body?     We know YHVH has our bodies to live in.  A) Does YHVH have a body of his own?      Once again, this depends how you are defining the word “Body”?  B) So a simple yes or no will NOT do here either. God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

Let me rephrase my question for you.

Does SCRIPTURE SAY that Jesus is now a SPIRIT?  Does SCRIPTURE SAY that Jesus has a new glorious BODY?

Those are both YES or NO questions.  I haven't asked for a definition of “body” in the case of Jesus, nor does scripture give one.  

But if Jesus IS spirit, and Jesus DOES have a body, then at least ONE spirit in existence has a body.  And since Paul said that “as is Jesus, so are THOSE OF HEAVEN”, I just add 1+1 and get 2.

Btw, I've described “body” as anything that separates one thing from another thing.  Without something to separate on thing from another, there would only be one thing in existence.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 26 2010,11:51)

Hi Mike, The day of The LORD is, the third of YHVH's three main feasts, burning up all the rudiments!

Okay Ed,

Then how about this one:

1 Corinthians 15:23
But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

This was also written AFTER pentecost.

mike

[Baker]

To All!  Deos any of you believe in the ransom??? and what do you think a ransom is?

Mar 10:45   For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

1Ti 2:5   For [there is] one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;  

1Ti 2:6   Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.  

Peace and Love Irene

[Author]

Posts