Do spirits have bodies?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 25 2010,18:36)

And nearly all other Christan people will agree with this… that Jesus was raised from the dead in the flesh, and that after so many days he assended in his glorified body to heaven. And this is the truth and these are the facts.

Hi Shimmer,

You are right. These are the facts. In what way do you think Jesus' “glorified” body was different from the one he was raised in?

This thread was to discuss whether or not spirits have bodies, Shimmer. Jesus IS a spirit. Jesus DOES have a body. These are also the facts. So do you also believe this to be the truth?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2010,18:53)

Hi Shimmer,       You left something out; was this to mislead? Quote (Ed J @ June 26 2010,13:04) The 'antichrist' message is: Jesus is going to come in the flesh; but the scripture says he already came. (Click Here) This 'antichrist' message that is deceiving the whole world is 'A FLESH SECOND COMING' of Jesus! “The second coming of Jesus” that “The Bible” refers to in John 14:23 occurred at “Pentecost”! The world is deceived (by spirit of 'antichrist') into 'thinking' Jesus will (Falsely) make a 'flesh return'!       FACT IS: JESUS RETURNED AT “PENTECOST”! Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed,

Paul wrote this letter AFTER Pentecost:

2 Thessalonians 2 NIV
1 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come. 3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

I don't want to get off topic on this thread, but I wonder how you can claim what you claim.

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2010,19:16)

1) “The Passover”=148 “The Passover”: made possible “Pentecost”=117 “Messiah: Jesus”=148 “JESUS CHRIST“=151 was the “Testator”=151! 2) “Pentecost”=117 Started the “God Spirit”=117(Holy Spirit), which “Former Rain”=117 is “GOD THE FATHER”=117 reigning in Mankind! 3) “Feast of Booths”=151 begins The “HOLY SPIRIT”=151(God The Father) “The Latter Rain”=151 “Tabernacles Feast”=151; the culmination of the “THREE”!

Hey Ed,

Why is it “THE” passover? And why not “THE” Messiah? Why “THE” Latter Rain, but not “THE” Holy Spirit. And why do you not call it “The Feast of Tabernacles”? The way you word it sounds like people will be feasting on tabernacles or something.

peace and love to you my brother,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 25 2010,19:26)

MIKe Jesus body died and Christ was resurrected a living spirit ,that means he was back alive but in the spirit,and so took a body just to beable to talk to his disciples verbally because they could not recognize him physically and also show miracles so that they were sure he was resurrected,

Hi Pierre,

So what you're saying is that Jesus really WAS a spirit being with a manifested body when he lied to his disciples and said he was NOT a spirit, right?

Hey Pierre, it might help to solve this issue if there was a scripture that specifically refers to Jesus' BODY being sacrificed for our sins. I remember scriptures that say Jesus gave his life, but I can't remember any that say he gave his BODY as a sacrifice.

Are there any that I'm forgetting?

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 25 2010,21:50)

A simple yes or no will NOT do! Your question cannot be answered with a yes or a no?

Hi Ed,

I thought the same thing when I saw Shimmer's post.    

But we all know what she meant, right?  She's looking for a DIRECT answer to her question, not more of your numbers I think.  

peace and love,
mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 25 2010,21:21)

But see here…Mike is edging his way to believing…he is doing it in such a subtle way that soon he'll be ending up saying what JustAskinhas bern saying from the beginning… The difference being, that Mike will not admit he was wrong…but also say, 'JustAskin, it's you who has been wrong..I was saying that Jesus was raised into a physically Spiritual Body…just as Paul says…and when he went to Heaven he 'put off the fleshly body' and went in the Spirit…'

JA,

I believe Jesus is a spirit now………..do you?
I believe that Jesus has a glorified new body………….do you?

These are SCRIPTURAL facts JA.  And these facts spell it out that spirits have bodies.

You seem to be having a hang up about “spiritual body”.  But can't you read what Paul wrote in 1 Cor 15?  He speaks of the resurrected body of those with a heavenly calling.  He says that the flesh body will die, like a seed.  The new body produced from that will be a spiritual body.

Now you like to point out that Paul also figuratively said he had died to his flesh – even while he was still alive.  And that we, like him, should clothe ourselves with the spiritual man.  There is no dilemma here, as I've already pointed out to you on page 88 of this thread.  But you won't even comment on that post will you?  This is definition #1 of “pneumatikos”, like I showed you.  But is this the definition Paul had in mind in 1 Cor 15?  No.  He talks about a “spiritual body” like those in heaven have.  This would be definiton #2 of “pneumatikos”.  

I can't help it if you can't get this.  I don't see how it's so hard if you ADMIT that Jesus is NOW a spirit and you ADMIT that Jesus NOW has a glorious new body.  What more do you need?  Jesus is a spirit and Jesus has a body.  So, do spirits have bodies?  YES or NO?

mike

[JustAskin]

Hey Mad Mike, Why do you say I have a hang up about “Spiritual Body” when that is the very thing that is quoted in Scriptures.

It is YOU and George and Irene and Terra who are saying “Spirit Body” when there is NOT A SINGLE REFERENCE TO “SPIRIT BODY” ANYWHERE in the WHOLE of the Scriptures nor dictionary nor by the Church fathers nor by ANYONE….

MAD MIKE, it was YOU WHO MADE UP THE TERM and are trying to promote it over what was written by the Apostles…it was YOU MAD MIKE who invented “SPIRIT BODIES” …now it is tied to you …

MAD MIKE …Post me a a single verse, two verses, three….whatever that says “SPIRIT BODY” or “SPIRIT BODIES”….

And Mad Mike, please don't do what George did by posting “Drop the “UAL”…

Just as Irene was coming round to the truth she has stopped posting and George has taken over to maintain the lie…He wants to cover for his wife… sad … George, don't cover, uncover….uncover Truth, then lead your wife to it….make her drink…if she will.

[JustAskin]

Mike,

You are really crazy….

Why do you say that Jesus is now Spirit as if I don't believe that?
It's clear you are trying to smear me because you cannot get out of the lie that you are telling…

At no time did I say that Jesus was NOT in the Spirit now. I KNOW that JESUS is IN the Spirit now…

I said that Jesus rose from the dead in a physically pure, incorruptible, sinless flesh and bone body that he showed to Thomas…He was in the flesh when he rose from the dead…this is the SPIRITUAL BODY (not SPIRIT BODY) cleansed, purified, glorified, sinless, incorruptible, flesh and bone body that Paul speaks of.

So what i have been saying all along is that Paul at no time is speaking of anything but the fleshly body in 1 Corinth 15.
The Earthly body: Animal, Bird, Fish and Man.
The Celestial body: Sun, Moon and Stars.
Each body is different….Mike, there is not a single reference to HEAVEN else why did Paul not just say “ANGEL”…what other HEAVENLY BEINGS are there that he should want to say “SPIRIT BODIES OF BEINGS IN HEAVEN”…also, there is no CONTEXT for that, no nothing…

Paul goes on to say that Jesus' followers would become like him, Spiritual, that is, “Cleansed, purified, sinless (In the eyes of God – not as man sees them)” and, indeed they became so, yet still walked in the flesh on the earth until they died.

Mike, that was Fleshly death and Spiritual rising. The bodies of the Apostles died in Sin and were raised in Spiritual glory. Just as Jesus did…
remember, his flesh was not corrupted by death so it was the same body he rose in but glorified….who wrote the verse “Their skin shall become like babies…”, yes, Jesus' body was like an adult baby…cleansed purified, harsh desert sands, sunlight, wind, toil, age, did not have effect on him, hence his body was not recognised by his friends…
Mike, the withered old man you know from down your street, will you recognise him in his glorified body…he had a limp and cocked nose…not anymore, he was bald and had a squint, not anymore…
That lady, she was short, too short…an crippling desease stopped her growing, she had a crooked back caused by stunted grow…no more…will you know her?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,05:33)

MAD MIKE …Post me a a single verse, two verses, three….whatever that says “SPIRIT BODY” or “SPIRIT BODIES”….

JA,

There is also not a single scripture that says, “Jesus Christ is the Son of Jehovah Most High and the Savior God sent to us.”  But by putting other scriptures together, we know this to be true, right?

If you would focus less on touting your own supreme knowledge and intellect and more on understanding what the scriptures say – and even what those who BELIEVE the scriptures say to you – you wouldn't be so lost on this “spiritual body” issue.  Listen up:  “Pneumatikos” can mean “BELONGING TO A SPIRIT”.  I've showed you this, and you haven't disputed it.  Instead you've tried a diversional tactic to get around addressing it by applying something Georg said to some of the other words in the definition.  But why don't you address the words that have to do with your dilemma, JA?  Why not actually address the words “BELONGING TO A SPIRIT”?  

Okay, listen up again:

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

What does this mean to you?  To me it means that the NATURAL BODY we have will be raised in the resurrection as a SPIRITUAL BODY.  How about this part:

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

To me, this says that Adam became a flesh man, and Jesus became a spirit.  It also says that just as we have lived in flesh bodies like Adam, we will have spiritual bodies like those of heaven.

Now you don't have to understand these scriptures the same way I do.  But personal insults are not the Chrsitian way, JA.  If you disagree with my interpretation, then take the scripture apart and explain to me what YOU think it means.  And if we disagree, then we disagree and move on.  It doesn't mean I'm an idiot or that I'm lying.  It just means we disagree.

Now, here's the clincher that you keep ignoring.  

Jesus IS a spirit.  Jesus DOES have a body.  Flesh CANNOT enter heaven.

This says that the body Jesus DOES have as a SPIRIT cannot be a FLESH body, right?  So first, spirits DO have bodies.  And second, they are NOT FLESH bodies.  So what kind of bodies do you suppose they have, JA?

I suppose it is one of those SPIRITUAL BODIES that Paul so clearly contrasts from the NATURAL BODIES we start off in.

mike

[JustAskin]

Mike,

Are you saying that that there is not a single verse in the whole of scriptures that says that Jesus is the Son of God and was sent to save us?

Mike, please show me a verse, one then, that says “Spirit Body”, or “Spirit Bodies”.

[GeneBalthrop]

TO ALL……………Jesus is NOT A SPIRIT “BODY” NOW and NEVER WAS SPIRIT “BODY because a SPIRIT does NOT HAVE a BODY IT EXISTS (IN) BODIES, Simple common sense should tell everyone that. NO ONE IS SPIRIT Except GOD ALONE. Jesus has a (Physical Body) with Spirit (IN) IT. Jesus clearly said He was (NOT) a SPIRIT of any kind. This false teachings of Spirit BODIES is one Just one of many many LIES taught by false teachers here. I can not believe something so simple can't even be understood here. When GOD was (IN) Jesus there were not two bodies (IN) Jesus , there was the Spirit (intellect)of Jesus and the Spirit (INTELLECT) of GOD the father , DWELLING (IN) THAT ONE PHYSICAL BODY JESUS HAD.  Are you people so screwed up you cant even understand that?

peace and love…………………………………gene

[JustAskin]

Mike,

See you change the word SPIRITUAL to SPIRIT to further you own aims…

Please STOP playing with the words…. it says SPIRITUAL not SPIRIT….

And I showed you what SPIRITUAL BODY means but you keep changing it to SPIRIT BODY when there is no such thing as SPIRIT Body …Mike you made that up.

YOU, MIKEBOL64, made up the term “Spirit Body”.

There is s a natural body…prone to sin and corruption
And there is a SpiritUAL Body…not prone to sin and corruption.

Jesus was raised in that Spiritual Body, not prone to sin nor corruption and then was taken up to heaven after he PUT OFF that body because a BODY cannot enter Heaven..that is impossible…
And when Jesus comes again, he will be seen when he 'puts on' his Spiritual body.

Spirits are INVISIBLE…so it is the BODY THAT IS SEEN, the Glorified Spiritual Flesh and Bone Body.

hey Mike, where does it say that Spirits are invisible? Why doesn't it say Spirits have INVISIBLE BODIES…wouldn't that have been easy enough to say…

Moreover, you speak only of Jesus WHO IS A MAN…..Angels are Spirits but NOT MAN…Jesus is Spirit AND A MAN.

Jesus is the Begotten Son of God… the glorified Son of God…this is what Adam should have become had he not sinned…
prove it otherwise…Jesus fulfilled what ADAM failed to fulfill…

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,05:53)

So what i have been saying all along is that Paul at no time is speaking of anything but the fleshly body in 1 Corinth 15.

Once again JA:

ce·les·tial (s-lschl)
adj.
1. Of or relating to the sky or the heavens: Planets are celestial bodies.
2. Of or relating to heaven; divine: celestial beings.
3. Supremely good; sublime: celestial happiness.
4. Celestial Of or relating to the Chinese people or to the former Chinese Empire.
n.

A heavenly being; a god or angel

1. (Christianity / Ecclesiastical Terms) heavenly; divine; spiritual celestial peace
2. (Astronomy) of or relating to the sky celestial bodies

From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/celestial  (Found on the first page shown on Google)

Celestial | Define Celestial at Dictionary.com/səˈlɛs tʃəl/ Show Spelled[suh-les-chuh l] Show IPA. –adjective. 1. pertaining to the sky or visible heaven. 2. pertaining to the spiritual or invisible …

That one is copied right from the front page, 3rd listing from the top on the Google page itself.

Definition of CELESTIAL
1: of, relating to, or suggesting heaven or divinity

That one was from the 4th listing down on the Google page.  It was from Mirian Webster's Dictionary.

Religion
Celestial Kingdom, the highest of three heavens or heavenly kingdoms in Mormon theology
Heaven
Supernatural beings that dwell in heaven such as divinities and angels

And that one was from Wikipedia, the 2nd listed entry on the Google page when you Google “celestial”.

Seems to me like someone wasn't being quite truthful before.  JA made a big deal of telling Irene and I that when you Google “celestial”, there is nothing about any “angels” or “heavenly spirtual beings”.  But these are all from the very first Google page.  

Are these enough for you JA?

mike

[JustAskin]

Hey See the Scourge that Mikeboll64 has given me .. a yellow block because he is frightened to realise that he has been wrong all this time.

This is a how Mike gets when he has seen the fullness of knowledge – he kick back…he is crying in his boots- weeping rivers of sinful tears because he has finally realises that he made up a millstone for his own neck and carved “SPIRIT BODY” on it.

[GeneBalthrop]

JA………….You have not proof scripturally a BODY (physical matter) of a different type, can't inter Heaven that is a conjecture on you part, IMO

peace and love……………………………….gene

[JustAskin]

Mike,

Celestial are CHINESE PEOPLE…do you not see that in point 4.

oh, that was silly…

Celestial says “Planets are Celestial bodies”….even this is not strictly true….Mike has scraped the bottom of the barrel to come up with this ONE AND ONLY Dictionary translation….that appears to show his view…(NOTE 'APPEARS to show his view')

Normally, Mikeboll would show you translations, views etc from several sources…why doesn't he do it here…  Simple, because to do so would expose TWENTY OTHER DICTIONARIES that say “CELESTIAL” means “SUN , Moon and Stars”….oh, Just like Paul says….Context Mikeboll…context…

Paul says, there are Earthly bodies, “Man, Fish, Birds, Animals” and there are Celestial Bodies, “Sun moon, Stars”….Context Mike. Why would Paul sudden veer off into talking of Angels …and then never mention Angels… as 'celestial bodies'

Mike, that is crazy….Angels are celestial bodies?…Mike, can you see Angels in the Celestial Heavens… Mike, look up into the sky, do you see angels milling about up there?

Here is what a credible dictionary says about Celestial Bodies: “Bodies that give off light”. The Sun gives off light, the stars give off light and the moon, give light on the earth enough to see with so is included…Technically, other planets 'don't' give off light but simple reflect the sun's light (But the moon is given special place of emphasis…as it says it Scriptures: “.. he makes the great light (The Sun) for the day and the lesser light (The moon) for the night”

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,06:22)

Mike, See you change the word SPIRITUAL to SPIRIT to further you own aims…

JA, I'm not changing anything.  I know that a spiritual body is the body BELONGING TO A SPIRIT.  So I don't have to say “spirit body”, nor do the scriptures, because it's understood that “spiritual body” refers to the body a spirit has.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,06:22)

There is s a natural body…prone to sin and corruption And there is a SpiritUAL Body…not prone to sin and corruption.

So when Paul said he had already clothed himself with the spiritual man, he could not sin from that point on?

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,06:22)

Jesus was raised in that Spiritual Body, not prone to sin nor corruption

So while Jesus was in his flesh body, he sinned?  

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,06:22)

and then was taken up to heaven after he PUT OFF that body because a BODY cannot enter Heaven..that is impossible…

So says JA.  But this is what the scriptures say:

Philippians 3:21
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

But wait, I though Paul had already put on the “spiritual man”.     Why then would his body need to be transformed into the glorious body Jesus NOW HAS AS A SPIRIT IN HEAVEN?  

JA, does Phil 3:21 say Jesus has a glorious body like the one Paul hopes his current body will be transformed into………or am I misreading it?

mike

[JustAskin]

Mikes Dictionary quote…Do you see it says “HEAVEN”.

Yet Paul never talks about “HEAVEN”. Paul talks about “HEAVENS” (oh, now now,…someone is going to say that they can't see the difference!!– oh dear oh dear!)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 26 2010,06:40)

Normally, Mikeboll would show you translations, views etc from several sources…why doesn't he do it here… Simple, because to do so would expose TWENTY OTHER DICTIONARIES that say “CELESTIAL” means “SUN , Moon and Stars”….oh, Just like Paul says….Context Mikeboll…context…

Hey big shot,

Where is YOUR source that DOESN'T list heavenly spiritual BEINGS in their definition of “celestial”?

[JustAskin]

MIKe,

LEAN NOT ON THINE OWN UNDERSTANDING…

YOU MADE UP THE TERM SPIRIT BODY…

Now you can't unstick it from yourself …it is a TAR-BABY on you…

Struggle Mikeboll, – Tarboll, Tarball, TarBaby…Mike, the more you struggle, the more it sticks…

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