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Quote (Baker @ Dec. 24 2010,06:06) The “flesh” body of Jesus had done its job, it took upon him all of our sins, and it had to remain dead, or else we will all remain dead once we die. God would not allow that body to decay as all of our body's do, so he deposed of it, for more then one reason. Look what people do with the shroud of Turin.
Hi Georg,I recognize that this is what David, Pierre and you are all saying. And I acknowledge that is 3 very good reasons for me to reconsider my understanding – because all three of you are not only sharp, but SCRIPTURALLY SHARP.
What's your bottom line here, Georg? That Jesus was raised in a NEW flesh and bone body that was then transformed into the glorious spiritual body he now has upon his ascension to heaven? Or do you agree with David that he was raised in his new glorious spiritual body right from the grave?
What about you Pierre?
peace and love,
mikeGeorg………..ME, Believing Scripture has nothing to do with it you and others twisting of what scripture is saying is the problem here. Like your saying Jesus does not have a Flesh and Bone body as Jesus said He had, and Jesus also said a spirit does not have a body as (HE HAS) and He proved it was a BODY by letting the apostle Thomas touch Him to prove it. Also even your very quote about, While Jesus was with them , NOTICE IT SAYS (THEIR) EYES WERE (HOLDEN) (SO) THEY (COULD NOT) RECOGNIZE HIM< Now was Jesus any different in looks or was (THEIR EYES) (HOLDEN) SO (THEY) COULD NOT RECOGNIZE HIM ?. Obviously they were able to recognize him if there eyes were not holden so they could not recognize him. This is what i am saying Georg, you people are not looking at the scriptures close enough to see what is being said. Your not applying common sense with them either. But desire to teach a MYSTERY FORM of RELIGION .
Another thing like what Seeking truth posted about the man being in paradise that Day with Jesus, Just common sense should have told him the man on the cross was not (IN) Paradise with Jesus (that day) because Jesus went to the grave for three days hardly a Paradise . You have all brought into the false teachings of the Gnostic's and Trinitarian teachings of Preexistence of Jesus as some kind of preexisting being with no scriptural proof of his preexistence and produce not one pre-earth activity of any kind . So real truth has nothing to do with it but past association with pagan and false religious teachings has ever thing to do with it and the deluding Spirits (intellects) sent to you in order for you to believe THE LIE> That has everything to do with it . IMO
peace and love to you and Irene ………………………………..gene
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 23 2010,19:39) You take a verse saying Jesus is Spirit.
Align it with a verse saying Jesus is Man.
Take another saying they will be like Jesus, man will be like Jesus…then conclude this that 'Man = Spirit'.
Okay, let me add some more info for you JA.1 Corinthians 15:45 NIV
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.2 Corinthians 3:17-18 NIV
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. And we all, who with unveiled faces contemplate the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his image with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.These scriptures say Jesus is now a SPIRIT.
Galatians 1:1 NIV
Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—Galatians 1:12 NIV
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.Now there's two more that clearly say Jesus is NOT a MAN anymore. And here's the one that clearly says Jesus has a body even though he is NOT A MAN, BUT A SPIRIT:
Philippians 3:21 NIV
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.Now, what scripture do you use to rail against these 5?
1 Timothy 2 NIV
5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people.Is Paul saying Jesus is STILL a man in contrast to what he says in the other scriptures? Or is he saying the MAN who WAS sacrificed for us all is NOW the mediator between God and mankind?
JA, take your ONE ambiguous scripture that COULD BE understood to say Jesus is STILL a MAN………..or…………..it COULD BE understood to to say, “The Jesus who is NOW a mediator between us and God is the same Jesus, who AS A MAN, was sacrificed for our sins”, and compare that ONE scripture to the Galatian scriptures where Paul CLEARLY, AND WITHOUT A DOUBT teaches that Jesus is NOT A MAN. Then compare that ONE scripture to the others I've listed that CLEARLY AND WITHOUT A DOUBT say that Jesus is now a SPIRIT.
You have once again failed to even address these issues in your extremely long joke of a post which was nothing more than your usual childish tauntings. Will you actually address the points this time, I wonder. Or will you continue to play the immature, name-calling child?
peace and love,
mikeQuote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 23 2010,14:53) Milke ……….Unlike you i have been reading and studying the word of GOD sense my childhood about sense i was about ten years old and as a teenager studied with my Father, who would talk about the word of GOD all the time,
Ahhhhhh! And there we have it. I would be willing to bet much money on the fact that the father who made such an impression on the 10 year old Gene Balthrop's scriptural interpretations also believed that Jesus was a man exactly like us and nothing more.Am I right?
mike
Ha ha Mikeboll,
Ever the man of falsehood.
You take a Scripture verse, dispute it with yourself, then claim that I said it, then accuse me of producing ambiguousness….
Mikeboll, where do you come from..
And to where are you going?Mike,
I still see you struggling to find any support for your desperate theory.You have fallen from trying to prove 'Spirits have bodies', down to 'Jesus has a body in Heaven'.
These are juxtaposed positions…where does Scritptures say that Spirits have bodies…when the very word, 'Spirit', means, 'Without body'?
Mike,
What is the 'body' of Jesus composed of?
A body is composed of some sort of Material…is it not?
Mike, what is the definition of 'body'?
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 25 2010,04:19) You have fallen from trying to prove 'Spirits have bodies', down to 'Jesus has a body in Heaven'.
Jesus is a spirit in heaven. Jesus has a body. You do the math, JA.
And still no educated and mature answer to the scriptures I posted? That's what I expected from a child like you.
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 25 2010,04:24) Mike, What is the 'body' of Jesus composed of?
A body is composed of some sort of Material…is it not?
Mike, what is the definition of 'body'?
JA, a body is something that separates one being from another. Spirits cannot be “immaterial” like you suggest. So, just like a flesh being has a flesh body, I would imagine that whatever angels consist of is also what their bodies consist of. It's almost like saying spirit beings would have SPIRITUAL BODIES! Oh, that's right. I DID already say that – and so did scripture.What scripture tells you that spirits are “immaterial”?
mike
Mikeboll,
So you are saying that 'Spirits' are material beings.Mike, what is the defintion of 'Spirit'?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2010,03:11) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 23 2010,14:53) Milke ……….Unlike you i have been reading and studying the word of GOD sense my childhood about sense i was about ten years old and as a teenager studied with my Father, who would talk about the word of GOD all the time,
Ahhhhhh! And there we have it. I would be willing to bet much money on the fact that the father who made such an impression on the 10 year old Gene Balthrop's scriptural interpretations also believed that Jesus was a man exactly like us and nothing more.Am I right?
mike
Mike……….You could not be more Wrong, as you are about other things , My Dad was a Baptist and then left that church and believed (but never joined) the WWCOG , Both of those churches believed in the Preexistence of Jesus, so again you talking about thing you have no idea about , just conjecture and assumptions as you do scriptures with out any true knowledge about them. But them NOVICES do that right?, but some here have been around a long time and should have grown more mature by now, with regards to the Faith. IMOYou and JA both are not that far apart in regards to that, both of you create all kinds of scenarios which are not scripturally sound nor even mentioned in scripture as JA”S and others Lucifer thing, conjectures upon conjectures and your all falling into a ditch. The blind leading the blind it appears. You have all bought into the teachings of MYSTERY RELIGION hook line and sinker and sink you will. Unless you let go of those false teachings you have enjoined yourselves to. IMO
peace and love………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2010,02:15) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 24 2010,06:06) The “flesh” body of Jesus had done its job, it took upon him all of our sins, and it had to remain dead, or else we will all remain dead once we die. God would not allow that body to decay as all of our body's do, so he deposed of it, for more then one reason. Look what people do with the shroud of Turin.
Hi Georg,I recognize that this is what David, Pierre and you are all saying. And I acknowledge that is 3 very good reasons for me to reconsider my understanding – because all three of you are not only sharp, but SCRIPTURALLY SHARP.
What's your bottom line here, Georg? That Jesus was raised in a NEW flesh and bone body that was then transformed into the glorious spiritual body he now has upon his ascension to heaven? Or do you agree with David that he was raised in his new glorious spiritual body right from the grave?
What about you Pierre?
peace and love,
mike
Mike! Since Scriptures say that first the earthly body and then the spiritual body, I would think Jesus was a spirit after His resurrection.1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
Now it also says that many seen Jesus after His resurrection. I believe that He manifested in order to show them that He had risen from the dead….
And Georg agrees with me…He said how else would He been able to come into a room with locked doors?
Peace and Love IreneTo All………….IT is sown in weakness < now what is the (IT)? the Body, IT (the body is raised in power) It (our bodies) was sown a NATURAL BODY, (IT) the new BODY is a SPIRITUAL "BODY: A spirit does not have a BODY SPirit exists (IN) BODIES, SPIRIT in it simplest form is simply the INTELLECT that is (IN) A BODY.
What make you people believe GOD does not wants us to have a Physical Body with Spirit added INTO IT. HIS whole creation is that way why not Us even after we are resurected. GOD lives vicariously (IN) his creation why would He want to destory (IT), His physical creation for any reason, why does it say the whole CREATION Will, be delievered from the bondage of Corruption if GOD did not want to keep his physical CREATION. Why does he say He has given MAN (general sense word) POWER over ALL the WORKS of HIS HANDS and that includes (ALL) his creation , MAN is a term for a Flesh PHYSICAL HUMAN BEING. Jesus will return as THE SON (OF) MAN with a PHYSICAL BODY JUST AS ALL MEN WILL WHO ARE RESURRECTED, Will be and Have been. IMO
peace and love to you all………………………………………gene
Mike,
What is a 'Spiritual body'.
Mike, if the local Pastor adopts me into his faith, does he become my Spiritual Father?
Is he a physical Father, gave birth to me…no!
Is he, then, a Spirit Father?…how is he 'in the Spirit' and still a man?Mike, does the Holy Spirit have a body?
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 25 2010,04:15) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 24 2010,06:06) The “flesh” body of Jesus had done its job, it took upon him all of our sins, and it had to remain dead, or else we will all remain dead once we die. God would not allow that body to decay as all of our body's do, so he deposed of it, for more then one reason. Look what people do with the shroud of Turin.
Hi Georg,I recognize that this is what David, Pierre and you are all saying. And I acknowledge that is 3 very good reasons for me to reconsider my understanding – because all three of you are not only sharp, but SCRIPTURALLY SHARP.
I Knew you were too weak, I knew you never believed what you said earlier, and I knew you followed man.Are you trying to start up some kind of cult here Mike ? Well, good luck to you and your few followers…or are you following them ?
Quote (Irene @ Dec. 25 2010,05:34)
Mike! Since Scriptures say that first the earthly body and then the spiritual body, I would think Jesus was a spirit after His resurrection.
I agree with you since it is scriptural. But the spiritual bodies Paul was talking about was the ones that would be received by those who are resurrected to heaven. Only those would need a spiritual body because only those would become spirit beings. But what of those meek who are resurrected to earth? Do they need a spiritual body to live on earth?I agree that Jesus NOW has a spiritual body because he is now in God's Kingdom where flesh cannot enter. But he also said that spirits don't have flesh and bone, as you see I have. You say Jesus possibly “manifested” a flesh body for this purpose, but wouldn't that be a deception on his part? He basically told them “I am not a spirit because you can see I have flesh and bones”. If he WAS a spirit who just manifested a body, then it would have been dishonest to make them think he WASN'T a spirit, IMO.
Quote (Irene @ Dec. 25 2010,05:34)
And Georg agrees with me…He said how else would He been able to come into a room with locked doors?
He walked on water and did many other things greater than coming into a locked room while he was flesh, right?Irene, I don't claim to know about this for a fact. And I appreciate being able to discuss my differences in understanding in a mature and respectable way with people like you, Georg, Pierre, and David. It is a far cry from the insults and ridicules I endure from others here.
peace and love,
mike
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