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Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 20 2010,15:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2010,14:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2010,11:53) Mike…………In case you not understanding as it appears , I will repeat it to you . Angels are (NOT) Spirits they Have SPIRITS (IN) them
Hebrews 1:14 NIV
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?Shimmer and Gene, what is it about this scripture that you don't understand?
How about all the angels of Satan who were the SPIRITS that possessed many people in Jesus' days on earth?
Angels ARE spirits, Gene. Why don't you believe this scripture?
mike
Why did you put my name there ? What has this to do with me ?
Hi Shimmer,I got cut off because the website was acting funny. When I first posted your name, I was planning to include the scriptures that say Jesus is also a SPIRIT now. And that part has to do with you.
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2010,18:33) Mike………..A spirit (intellect) is what posses everyone it just depends on what KIND it is , Clean or unclean , good or evil Spirit is Just (INTELLECT) it is what animates people to do what they do, when are you ever going to get that?. GOD is SPIRIT and can be (IN) a person just as He was (IN) Jesus. Man when are you going to understand that?
Gene,When are angels ever called “beings WITH spirit IN THEM”?
I hear what you're saying. I'm just pointing out to you that scripture says angels ARE spirits, and scripture says Jesus IS NOW a spirit.
What you do with those scriptures is up to you. I'm tired of going in circles with you. Think what you want to.
mike
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 21 2010,08:46) The Spiritual Body
By David Pyleshttp://www.pb.org/pbdocs/spiritual_body.html
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. – 1Cor 15:44
Unfortunately, there are some who misuse this scripture in argument against a bodily resurrection, and some will say that, even if there is a bodily resurrection, this scripture does not refer to it. These will claim that spiritual body means the soul or spirit and that it does not refer to the material body. Such a conclusion is at variance with the entire tenor of the Bible and with the very context in which this scripture is found. Observe that:
1) While it is a spiritual body, it is nonetheless a body. Hence, the scripture does not deny the resurrection of the body; rather, it affirms the resurrection of the body in a modified form.
2) The resurrected body is a modified form of the body that was sown or buried (vss 37 & 55), but the spiritual man is not sown. When man dies, Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it, (Eccl 12:7). Accordingly, Isaiah said it was that which dwells in the dust that shall rise in the resurrection: Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead, (Isa 26:19).
3) It is in error to assume that spiritual can only imply “immaterial.” This can be seen from:
Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1Cor 10:1-4
Here it is understood that in spiritual rock and spiritual drink there is an intended modification of the idea of the material rock and material drink, but it is not the intent to eliminate the material character of either the rock or drink.
The same idea can be seen in Paul's own explanation of the spiritual body:
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. – 1Cor 15:45-49
Hence, the second Adam, who is the returning Christ, or the Lord from Heaven, who will quicken the dead at His appearing, is called a quickening spirit, yet in referring to Him as a spirit, Paul does not imply that He is without a material body. Instead, the obvious intent is to explain His meaning of spiritual body by illustrating it with the resurrected body of Christ. This is an expected explanation to anyone believing in a bodily resurrection because:
4) The resurrected body of Christ is the prototype for all of those who will resurrected in Him. This is implied in the context, because Paul said, And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. That is, whereas the first Adam was the prototype of the present body, the Second Adam is the prototype of the spiritual body. This principle is very clearly taught elsewhere in the Bible (vss 12-17; Rom 8:29; Philip 3:21; 1Jn 3:2). But there is no doubt that Christ was raised in a material body of flesh and bones (Lk 24:39-43).
5) The resurrected body is a modified form of the body that dies, and it must die before it can be resurrected, because Paul says, Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die, (vs 36). This cannot refer to the spiritual man, because the spiritual man does not die. Accordingly, the body that is raised to immortality and incorruption is a modification of the body that had been sown in mortality and corruption (vss 42 & 53).
6) In the preceding verses, Paul considers various kinds of bodies and flesh. The comparisons and contrasts made here clarify his meaning when he later speaks of a spiritual body. He says,
Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. – 1Cor 15:36-41
As Paul considers the diversity in various forms of bodies and flesh, he never considers anything other than material entities. This shows that a material entity is under consideration when he later speaks of a spiritual body.
7) From the previous quote it can be seen that the spiritual body is “given” (i.e. God giveth it a body…) in the resurrection itself, so to affirm that spiritual body simply means the soul or spirit is to affirm that one does not have soul or spirit until the resurrection, or that the soul or spirit are modified in the resurrection. The scriptures will support neither idea. The obvious meaning is that God will give a modified material body in the resurrection.
8) The bodies of the resurrected will surely be identical in composition to the glorified bodies of those who will be yet alive when Christ returns, but it is obviously true that the latter will possess a modified form of the present body. We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed … For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put immortality, (vss 51-53). Thus, the bodies of those who are alive when Christ returns are not done away, but are changed from corruptible to incorruptible and from mortal to immortality.
9) The denial of a bodily resurrection places one at odds with plain teachings of Paul elsewhere in the Bible. For example, consider:
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. – Rom 8:10,11
This scripture plainly distinguishes the spiritual and fleshly being of man, and it clearly applies the resurrection to the latter.
10) The denial of a bodily resurrection places one at odds with the plain teachings of other scriptural writers. These include:
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. – Job 19:25-27
Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body sh
all they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. – Isa 26:19And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. – Dan 12:2
When Paul speaks of a spiritual body, he means a material yet incorruptible and immortal body adapted to the heavenly clime, and this is in contrast to the natural body, which refers to the corruptible and mortal body that is adapted to the earthly clime.
Hi Shimmer,I cannot find one unscriptural thing in this man's letter. In fact, what he states is also what I've been saying all along in this thread. Here's what I've been saying – see if it matches Mr. Pyle’s letter:
1. Jesus was resurrected WITH a body.
2. The SPIRITUAL BODIES of those of heaven are bodies that are different, or as he says, “modified” from our earthly FLESH AND BLOOD BODIES.
3. In 1 Cor 15, Paul is trying to distinguish the difference between the FLESHLY bodies that the first Adam and those of earth have FROM the SPIRITUAL bodies that the last Adam and those of heaven have.
4. The bodies of spirits HAVE to be material bodies, for even wind is made up of material. They are NOT “immaterial” as JA assumes.There is nothing I find wrong with this man's letter, Shimmer. It's just too bad that he doesn't touch on the FLESH part a little more. He does however make it clear that the SPIRITUAL body is a MODIFIED form of the earthly body. And that fits right in with this scripture:
Philippians 3:21 NIV
who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.SOME of our FLESHLY bodies will be TRANSFORMED into the kind of glorious body Jesus now has – which CANNOT POSSIBLY be a FLESH AND BLOOD body anymore.
Notice I say SOME. While ALL will be resurrected and judged, NOT ALL will ascend to God's Kingdom. Those meek ones who will inherit the earth will have no need for any other MODIFIED body, right? So while ALL will be resurrected WITH BODIES, only those who will serve in heaven will need to have their bodies MODIFIED and “void of flesh and blood”. Because those two things CANNOT enter into heaven, according to the scriptures. All who are raised and judged favorably and given life who are NOT going to serve in heaven will have no reason to have their earthly FLESH AND BLOOD bodies MODIFIED.
Shimmer, Jesus IS in heaven. Jesus MUST HAVE HAD his body MODIFIED to not include flesh and blood anymore. And that's why Paul is contrasting our lowly fleshly bodies with Jesus' new MODIFIED, glorious body that he has now. Paul also says 3 times in scripture that Jesus is now a SPIRIT. A spirit does not have a flesh and blood body, right? But they do have a SPIRITUAL body.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2010,16:31) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 20 2010,13:32) Mike! The Bible is not always written in chronological order. When I read John 17:5 it says that He wants the glory back which He had with His Father before the world was. Now ask yourself, is that what Jesus asked his Father before his resurrection or after His resurrection? I say AFTER.
Hi Irene,I guess I never thought of the individual books themselves being out of chronological order. But, as I don't exactly know for a fact that they are not, who am I to say they are?
When I read that in the past, I just always assumed that Jesus had at that point accomplished the work his God gave him to do, and that the rest was more a matter of stuff he had to endure than “work he had to do”. But maybe you're right – I don't know, so I won't dare to refute your understanding of it.
peace and love,
mike
Mikeyes that s right ,thats why understanding by Gods spirit written word is important.
Pierre
Hey Pierre,
I'm struggling through Revelation now. And I'm even reading it aloud to myself and praying for God's guiding spirit to help me understand. I'm reading it slowly and even going over certain sentences many times.
This is my third time through it, and I'm still not even close to being able to finish our private discussion on it. I'm STILL drinking milk on that Book!
But I get your point that we need the spirit to help us to understand the scriptures. How true.
peace and love,
mikeMike………..So in your opinion Jesus was lying when he prayed, “they KINGDOM (COME) thy Will Be DONE (ON EARTH) AS it is in HEAVEN” Right? Because flesh and blood can't be in the kingdom of GOD Right. So the only ones who can be in the kingdom of GOD must drift off onto Heaven some where right, in order to be in the Kingdom of GOD. While it is true Flesh and blood of any kind can not (itself) enter into the kingdom of GOD , but no where does it say the Kingdom (can't ) enter (INTO) a flesh and blood person or any creature God has created for that matter., “FOR THE KINGDOM OF COMES WITHOUT OBSERVATION IT IS WITHIN YOU. What part of that you don't seem to understand Mike? Gods kingdom is within a person not exterior of him as you think it is. IMO
peace and love………………………………..gene
Mike Boll,
A soul is spiritual in form but it is not a spirit one lives by.
An angel has a soul as well as a spirit even though it is called a spirit.
According to scripture the spirit of God is what makes a believer a son of God.
Angels are part of the unity that is tied together by the spirit of God.
I am going to conclude that God is in Jesus through the spirit and Jesus is in the angels through the same spirit just as is with believers that have entered the new covernant.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2010,11:33) Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 20 2010,15:11) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 20 2010,14:23) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2010,11:53) Mike…………In case you not understanding as it appears , I will repeat it to you . Angels are (NOT) Spirits they Have SPIRITS (IN) them
Hebrews 1:14 NIV
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?Shimmer and Gene, what is it about this scripture that you don't understand?
How about all the angels of Satan who were the SPIRITS that possessed many people in Jesus' days on earth?
Angels ARE spirits, Gene. Why don't you believe this scripture?
mike
Why did you put my name there ? What has this to do with me ?
Hi Shimmer,I got cut off because the website was acting funny. When I first posted your name, I was planning to include the scriptures that say Jesus is also a SPIRIT now. And that part has to do with you.
mike
OK.Mike, you say the man I quoted agrees with you, and that it is what you have been saying all along, but you havent been. This man say's Jesus is flesh and bone…a flesh and bone resurrected body which is glorified……..as most of Christianity also believes…….. where you say he is Spirit only,
You NOW say you were saying Jesus has a body ? Mike, Iv looked back a page or two only and here are some of the things you said…
(Posted: Dec. 20 2010,11:04)
those of us raised to heaven will be like the angels. They will be SPIRITS. They will no longer be flesh, so they will no longer need fleshly, earthly bodies.
Face it JA. Jesus IS a SPIRIT. Jesus CANNOT have a flesh body in heaven.
(Posted: Dec. 20 2010,04:53)
Because you REFUSE to acknowledge the scripture that PLAINLY AND WITHOUT ANY FOOTNOTES says that flesh cannot enter the Kingdom of God. And because you REFUSE to acknowledge the 3 scriptures that say Jesus is now a SPIRIT.
(Posted: Dec. 20 2010,01:53)
But there is no scripture that says Jesus is still flesh. Instead, scripture says in three places that Jesus is now a spirit.
I have no idea now what you are saying so it's all I have to say about this to you for now
So, bye on this for now Mike. I'm getting too confused.
To all,
According to Shimmer’s source scripture state the following:
Quote Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. – Isa 26:19 This sounds like the account of the resurrection of the righteous dead that occurred when Jesus died.
Matthew 27:51-53(NIV):
Quote At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
It also is in line with another scripture from Shimmer’s source:
Quote And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. – Dan 12:2 Yet here is a third scripture from her source which speaks of flesh being resurrected.
Quote For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. – Job 19:25-27 From these scripture it seems clear that the resurrected body is a body of flesh and that it is raised from the grave just as Jesus’ was raised from the grave.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 21 2010,21:01) Hey Pierre, I'm struggling through Revelation now. And I'm even reading it aloud to myself and praying for God's guiding spirit to help me understand. I'm reading it slowly and even going over certain sentences many times.
This is my third time through it, and I'm still not even close to being able to finish our private discussion on it. I'm STILL drinking milk on that Book!
But I get your point that we need the spirit to help us to understand the scriptures. How true.
peace and love,
mike
hi Mikemay be after all we will be able to talk,
but even i would tell you the things like i did ,they are not doing anything for you ,because you have to understand them with your hearth
that is Gods way.so let God s spirit guide you like i say wen you wish to continue ,it is your call.
Pierre
Kerwin, they just don't understand, they don't understand Jesus when he said “See my hands and feet, that it is truly me. Touch me and see, for a spirit doesn't have flesh and bones, as you see that I have.”
Never mind.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 22 2010,01:04) To all, According to Shimmer’s source scripture state the following:
Quote Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. – Isa 26:19 This sounds like the account of the resurrection of the righteous dead that occurred when Jesus died.
Matthew 27:51-53(NIV):
Quote At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
It also is in line with another scripture from Shimmer’s source:
Quote And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. – Dan 12:2 Yet here is a third scripture from her source which speaks of flesh being resurrected.
Quote For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. – Job 19:25-27 From these scripture it seems clear that the resurrected body is a body of flesh and that it is raised from the grave just as Jesus’ was raised from the grave.
Kerwinyes it is so,almost all what is preached by Christ and the apostles can be found in the old testament.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2010,18:04) To all, According to Shimmer’s source scripture state the following:
Quote Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. – Isa 26:19 This sounds like the account of the resurrection of the righteous dead that occurred when Jesus died.
Matthew 27:51-53(NIV):
Quote At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
It also is in line with another scripture from Shimmer’s source:
Quote And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. – Dan 12:2 Yet here is a third scripture from her source which speaks of flesh being resurrected.
Quote For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. – Job 19:25-27 From these scripture it seems clear that the resurrected body is a body of flesh and that it is raised from the grave just as Jesus’ was raised from the grave.
Kerwin……….You have it right brother.peace and love…………………………..gene
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2010,18:04) To all, According to Shimmer’s source scripture state the following:
Quote Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. – Isa 26:19 This sounds like the account of the resurrection of the righteous dead that occurred when Jesus died.
Matthew 27:51-53(NIV):
Quote At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
It also is in line with another scripture from Shimmer’s source:
Quote And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. – Dan 12:2 Yet here is a third scripture from her source which speaks of flesh being resurrected.
Quote For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. – Job 19:25-27 From these scripture it seems clear that the resurrected body is a body of flesh and that it is raised from the grave just as Jesus’ was raised from the grave.
Kerwin! Let us examine what Scripture says about the resurrection, which will happen one day.
1 Corinth. 15 speaks abut that. The whole Chapter, but what I want to bring out what God does in1Cr 15:35 ¶ But some [man] will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Cr 15:36 [Thou] fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Cr 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other [grain]:
1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.
1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.
1Cr 15:41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
However the meek shall inherit the earth…. I don't have a Scripture for that right in my mind, but there is…I believe though that the elect and the multitude will be spirit beings.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
If this is speaking of those that are under the New Covenant, I don't know for certain, but I would love to be there and sing praises to OUR GOD…..
Peace and love Irene
Kerwin! I just looked at Job 19;25-26 and Georg and I were debating this. We feel that that Scripture cannot be true. Nobody in the flesh can look at God in all of His glory directly and live. Inh the KJ Moffatt version it explains it this way
verse 25 Still I know One of champion me at last, to stand up for me upon the easrth.
verse 26 This body may brake up, but even then my life shall have a sight of God;
My hearth is pining as I yearn to see Him at my side. see Him estranged no longer…..Isiah 26:19 O Thou Eternal , thy dead shall live again, awakening with songs of joy; for the dew falls with light and life.
TIL DEATH SPIRITS ARISE……Math. 27:51-53 talks about what happened then and has nothing to do with the resurrection of most.,…
Dan. 12:2 Then the king gave the command to call the magicians, the astrologers, the sorceress, to tell the King His dreams. Nothing to do with either Spirit beings or the resurrection….
Peace and Love Irene
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 22 2010,05:51) Isiah 26:19 O Thou Eternal , thy dead shall live again, awakening with songs of joy; for the dew falls with light and life.
TIL DEATH SPIRITS ARISE……
Hi Irene.Most Bible's have it as 'cast out the dead', not 'till death spirit's arise'
http://bible.cc/isaiah/26-19.htm
Example
World English Bible
Your dead shall live. My dead bodies shall arise. Awake and sing, you who dwell in the dust; for your dew is like the dew of herbs, and the earth will cast forth the dead.Young's Literal Translation
Thy dead live — My dead body they rise. Awake and sing, ye dwellers in the dust, For the dew of herbs is thy dew, And the land of Rephaim thou causest to fall.King James Bible
Thy dead [men] shall live, [together with] my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew [is as] the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.Kerwin………….Anyone can if the look hard enough find something that counteracts plain scriptures , We all can see GOD (IN) the FLESH in the eye of our MINDS, But still in the Flesh body. GOD is Spirit and can only be see that way now and by the Glory he is able to demonstrate in his creation for ever. It never ceases to amaze me how these people can twist scriptures to meet their dogmas that they have learned many many years ago by false doctrines and translation by trinitarians who are preexistences that only separate Jesus from our own fleshly existence , Jesus was raised as you well know in a flesh body and proved it and even said spirit don not have flesh and done bodies as he had, He was raised up into heaven with that same body and will descend with a flesh and bone body also. One of the greatest confusions of our day is to not realize SPIRIT is (NOT) a Body and can (Never) be a Body, But spirit is what is (IN) a BODY, but itself has NOT BODY Not even GOD Has a BODY He lives (IN) and through His creation, If you want to see the hidden things about GOD go look at the creation and you can clearly see His attributes and glorious majesty. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………….gene
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 21 2010,17:57) Mike, you say the man I quoted agrees with you, and that it is what you have been saying all along, but you havent been. This man say's Jesus is flesh and bone…a flesh and bone resurrected body which is glorified……..as most of Christianity also believes…….. where you say he is Spirit only, You NOW say you were saying Jesus has a body ? Mike, Iv looked back a page or two only and here are some of the things you said…
(Posted: Dec. 20 2010,11:04)
those of us raised to heaven will be like the angels. They will be SPIRITS. They will no longer be flesh, so they will no longer need fleshly, earthly bodies.
Face it JA. Jesus IS a SPIRIT. Jesus CANNOT have a flesh body in heaven.
(Posted: Dec. 20 2010,04:53)
Because you REFUSE to acknowledge the scripture that PLAINLY AND WITHOUT ANY FOOTNOTES says that flesh cannot enter the Kingdom of God. And because you REFUSE to acknowledge the 3 scriptures that say Jesus is now a SPIRIT.
(Posted: Dec. 20 2010,01:53)
But there is no scripture that says Jesus is still flesh. Instead, scripture says in three places that Jesus is now a spirit.
I have no idea now what you are saying so it's all I have to say about this to you for now
So, bye on this for now Mike. I'm getting too confused.
Hi Shimmer,I don't understand your dilemma. Jesus DOES have a body. Jesus IS a spirit. Jesus' body CANNOT POSSIBLY consist of FLESH anymore.
These are all things I've been repeatedly saying. Do you think because I say Jesus is a spirit that I'm also saying he doesn't have a body? I've been arguing this whole time that spirits DO have bodies…….just not flesh ones.
I've even made the point about separation. If there are at least TWO spirits in existence, then they must have some kind of body to distinguish and separate one from the other – or they'd just “blend together” into one being.
By the way, where does Pyles say Jesus is NOW “flesh and bone”? Flesh cannot enter heaven.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Dec. 21 2010,18:04) Yet here is a third scripture from her source which speaks of flesh being resurrected. Quote For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me. – Job 19:25-27 From these scripture it seems clear that the resurrected body is a body of flesh and that it is raised from the grave just as Jesus’ was raised from the grave.
Hi Kerwin,Gene and I have just discussed that scripture a few pages ago. Below is the info I posted for him. BTW, no one here is claiming that Jesus wasn't raised to life in a flesh body, Kerwin. Those of us who believe the words of scripture are saying that he can't STILL have that FLESH body and be a SPIRIT……..IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD at the same time.
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 20 2010,03:19)
Job 19: 26…….> And though after my skin worms destory this body, YET IN MY (FLESH) SHALL I SEE God:
Job 19 NIV
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet[e] in[f] my flesh I will see God;Footnote “e” says:
Job 19:26 Or And after I awake, / though this body has been destroyed, / then
And Footnote “f” says:
Job 19:26 Or destroyed, / apart from
So all together, it could be saying:
After this body of skin has been destroyed, then APART FROM MY FLESH, I will see God.
NETNotes says this about it:
The Hebrew phrase is “and from my flesh.” This could mean “without my flesh,” i.e., separated from my flesh, or “from my flesh,” i.e., in or with my flesh.
They also say this about the verse as a whole:
H. H. Rowley (Job [NCBC], 140) says, “The text of this verse is so difficult, and any convincing reconstruction is so unlikely, that it seems best not to attempt it.”
But even in your translation Gene, it seems that if worms have destroyed Job's SKIN, then the “APART FROM MY FLESH” would make more sense. Unless you picture Job as a skinned alive bloody thing from some horror movie when he sees God.
Also, it doesn't say anything at all about the Kingdom of God. So while the scriptures say that no man, or flesh, HAS EVER seen God, they don't say no flesh WILL EVER see God – just that flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God.
I wouldn't count on this scripture to “prove” that Jesus is still flesh, Gene.
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