Do spirits have bodies?

Blocked

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,17:19)

You argue that Jesus’ resurrection was not the final resurrection but was a resurrection in which he woken up to live his worldly life for a while and thus he is not the first born from among the dead.

Hi Kerwin. What I argue is that Jesus was the first ever to be raised FROM THE DEAD to ETERNAL LIFE. As I understand the scriptures, not everyone will be resurrected to heaven, but all who are favorably judged WILL be granted ETERNAL LIFE. There is nothing I'm aware of in scripture that says one does not receive that ETERNAL LIFE until they are clothed with a spiritual body. So here's what we all KNOW from scripture:

1. Jesus was NOT raised from the dead with a spiritual body, for they do not have “flesh and bone”. (Just so we're on the same page, Luke 24:39 does NOT have Jesus saying, “a GHOST, or PHANTASM doesn't have flesh and bone”. Jesus says, “a SPIRIT does not have flesh and bone”.) So since spirits do not have flesh and bone, and Jesus did at that time have flesh and bone, he could not have been raised from the dead as a spirit being.

2. Flesh CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God. Jesus IS there right now, so he can't possibly have FLESH.

3. The last Adam became a life-giving SPIRIT.

These are the FACTS according to scriptures Kerwin. We must connect the dots and put these FACTS all together. Jesus IS a spirit now. Jesus WASN'T a spirit when he was first raised from the dead. So what other option is there?

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,17:19)

Lazarus for instance was woken before Jesus only to continue living a worldly life until he died again until Resurrection Day.

Lazarus was not even the first, Kerwin. Elijah and Elisha both raised people from the dead. The difference in them is that they died again. Jesus never died again after he was raised from the dead, nor will he ever. In that respect, he is the “firstborn from among the dead” to live forever after.

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,17:19)

Therefore since according to you Jesus did not experience the final resurrection of the dead he must have like both Enoch and Elijah have ascended to God while living his worldly life and been transformed in the blink of an eye.

Again, you are confusing “resurrection” with “ascending to heaven”. Not everyone who is resurrected from the dead will ascend into heaven Kerwin. Those two things are not necessarily “linked together”. Jesus was the first to be resurrected from the dead, never to die again. Even if he never ascended into heaven, the fact that he was the first to be resurrected to eternal life would not change.

And I don't know about Enoch ascending, but Elijah was said to have been taken up in fire from heaven, right? But he was not said to have DIED first. And the scriptures tell us that there will be others like that. Scripture says that not all will taste death. But scripture also says that Jesus did taste death.

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,17:19)

I have read the scriptures you have quoted but the meanings you have given them are not consistent with Scripture and therefore are not valid or sound.

Obviously you chose which of Paul’s words in 1 Corinthian 15 that you choose to apply to Jesus and then speculate on why some do and some do not. Thank you for your conjectures.

Perhaps you would be kind enough in the future to post the scriptures I quoted or my understanding of that scripture. Because I post alot here, and I'm not sure which scripture or which of my understandings you're disagreeing with.

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,17:19)

I saw the words your wrote to JA about the Greek word translated “man” as regards “heavenly man” and wondered if you had also considered where Jesus after his resurrection is called a human being in 1 Timothy 2:5

Did you also see where “anthopos” is translated as “person” over 30 times in the scriptures? So, once again we have a dilemma. And this is what we KNOW from scripture.

1. The Greek word “anthropos” could literally mean “human being”. Or it could refer to only the male of the species. Or it could refer to a “PERSON”.

2. Humans have, and are called, “flesh and blood”.

3. Flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God.

So we have to decide if the mention of “anthropos” in 1 Timothy 2:5 referred to:

A. A “PERSON”, and not necessarily a “human being”.

B. Jesus' PAST as a human being. Similar to saying “President Bush arrived in Iowa today”, even though he's not still the President.

C. Paul literally meant that Jesus is STILL a “human being”.

Now the first two are plausible, to say the least. And they do not conflict with any other scriptures at all. The last one conflicts with at least 4 scriptures:

1 Corinthians 15:45 NIV
45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

1 Corinthians 15:50 NIV
50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God,

Galatians 1:1 NIV
Paul, an apostle—sent not from men nor by a man, but by Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead—

Galatians 1:12 NIV
I did not receive it from any man, nor was I taught it; rather, I received it by revelation from Jesus Christ.

All of these scripture CLEARLY tell us that Christ CANNOT possibly be a flesh and blood human being anymore. And just to “sweeten the pot”, consider these two:

Romans 5:15
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!

Romans 5:17
For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God’s abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ!

Both of these scriptures talk of Jesus Christ as a “man” Kerwin. But you can see that it refers to things Jesus did WHEN he was a man. I know that doesn't exactly fit into 1 Timothy, because Jesus is STILL our Mediator. But consider this: Adam is dead. He is no longer a “flesh and blood human being”, yet Paul consistently refers to him as a “man”, or “human being”.

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 14 2010,17:19)

In addition I understand you believe a spirit has not flesh, blood, or bone but does have a body.
That is the description of a ghost.

I believe that EVERY living being has a body of some sort. If it didn't, there would be nothing to separate where that being is from where it is not, nor would there be anything to separate it from all the other beings.

peace and love,
mike

December 15, 2010 at 1:20 am#228813

Participant

Mike,

Daniel 10:13…
The Angel Gabriel was fighting against other Spirit forces.

You know this because you outlined this yourself in 'Was Jesus always superior'.

'The Prince of Persia' and 'the Prince of Greece' are both real people and also Wicked Spirit forces.

One Spirit force fighting another for possession of the body of the real person.

Mike, it's no use you trying to do battle with me on this. You will never see in the Spirit, so nothing being said to you will make sense.

You will always think of Spirits needing a body to encase them because that is how the fleshly man thinks…read 1 Cor 2:15.

Also, you mock yourself… The seventh heaven/dimension is the only dimension where one can be all places at all times…that is the abode of God Almighty alone.

Why did you not try to understand all the other dimensions, but only play ignorant by presenting the seventh only.

When dealing with earthly matters, the Angels 'come down' to the earthly dimensions and are therefore ONE Angel in ONE place at ONE Time.
Does that make sense? Else someone will say, 'hey, Gabriel came to me midday yesterday'…'hey, i saw him too, at that same time', 'wow, and me', these all meeting up after being in different places. The Angel would then not be in physical form but 'Apperition' only, a disembodied voice…

Mike, a containment 'body' cannot exist above the fourth dimension…it is pointless…it cannot be else it could not do what it does.
Only in the physical realm, under the 'heavens' and on the earth, is a body required, and that to …Contain… the Spirit so it becomes a visible entity 'with power'.

Notice that normal Angels are all nonedescript. They are all alike. They reluctantly identify themselves, if that. Nonedescript because the body is just a 'flash created body' that they will shed immediately after delivering their message….and also so no one gets to know them with a view to worshipping them.
A body could not instantly transfer from one place to another….but the Spirit can::: mad man — pigs….! And the Spirit does not take up 'Space' hence a legion of Spirits could occupy the same position in space…there is nothing to intermingle…they are Spirit. Did the mad ma get larger because he had a thousand Spirits inside him?
What about the pigs before they died…if they did, i bet the pigs owner was really mad….when he saw the size of them as they plunged over the cliff…but, no, they didn't increase in size for even the number of demons Spirits inside them.

Q: How many Spiritsncan dance on the point of a pin at the same time?

A: More than exists in the whole heavenly realm!

December 15, 2010 at 2:01 am#228817

Blocked

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 14 2010,20:23)

What Mike has failed to admit, is that it is exclusively talking about 'Mankind', and specifically about those of Mankind who 'WILL' be risen at the first resurrection and become like Jesus, risen into a 'Spiritual Body'.

What JA has failed to admit is that Paul says:

1 Corinthians 15:47-48 NASB
The first man is from the earth, earthy; the second man is from heaven. As is the earthy, so also are those who are earthy; and as is the heavenly, so also are those who are heavenly.

According to the tense, Paul is saying there already ARE other “heavenly” ones who are like Jesus. JA wants to think this sentence ONLY refers to those who WILL SOMEDAY BE RAISED. But Paul doesn't say, “SO WILL BE THOSE WHO WILL BE RAISED TO BE HEAVENLY”. Nope. He says, “SO ALSO ARE THOSE WHO ARE HEAVENLY”.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 14 2010,20:23)

So, here, we need to discern what was meant by 'Spiritual'…

Mike says it means , 'of the Spirit'. Mike chose one definition without expanding on it.

This is the first defintion of “spiritual” from Dictionary.com:

of, pertaining to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal.

So follow it through JA. A “spiritual body” would “pertain to” the body of a spirit. A “spiritual body” would “consist of” spirit.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 14 2010,20:23)

Just the 'three kings' here claimed that 'Celestial bodies' meant 'Spirits in Heaven' when virtually EVERY Dictionary definition says it, just as Paul, the original writer says it, 'Heavenly….bodies: Sun, Moon, Stars…bodies in the Sky that glows, gives off light'

While I am happy that our court jester recognizes the three of us as his “kings”, I was wondering if instead of just spouting unsubstantiated things, you would be willing to post the links to those “virtually EVERY dictionaries” that exclude invisible things from their definitions of “celestial”. Because here's what the Greek word “epouranios” means:

1) existing in heaven
1a) things that take place in heaven
1b) the heavenly regions
1b1) heaven itself, the abode of God and angels
1b2) the lower heavens, of the stars
1b3) the heavens, of the clouds
1c) the heavenly temple or sanctuary
2) of heavenly origin or nature

Look at #1 JA. Do invisible things “exist in heaven”? Remember Colossian 1:16? The one that says all INVISBLE THINGS IN HEAVEN were created through Jesus? Yeah, there are both visible AND invisible things in heaven. And all of these are included in the Greek word “epouranios”, which the KJV translates as “celestial” and most other Bibles translate as “heavenly”. And that is why both Webster's and Dictionary.com list “invisible things” in their definitions of “celestial”. In fact, would you be so kind as to post the link to even ONE of your dictionaries that exclude the word “invisible” in their definition of “celestial”?

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 14 2010,20:23)

Once showing error, they should have gone back and reexamined everything they thought of in light of this crushing revelation of truth to them.

Is that it JA? Really? You aren't able to answer the simplest of questions or scriptures we post. You have nothing of any value to add to this conversation, nor have you ever. You are reduced to being the “court jester” that you are – forever posting your satires and hoping to get a laugh. And at the same time hoping no one will notice that you can't hang with the big dogs and stand up and actually defend your points or refute ours. It's really quite pathetic to watch – because we ALL notice JA. We post scriptures – you post insults. How mature of you. What are you, like 8 years old? Grow up.

mike

December 15, 2010 at 2:07 am#228818

Blocked

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 14 2010,20:41)

Oh, and Mike,

In my Bible, it does say, Heavenly 'Man' and there is no footnote saying 'Man* Word added'.

See Mike, why does verse 49 say 'we will bear the image of the Heavenly Man'.

I guess it really makes no difference if “your Bible” adds a footnote or not JA.

I read the Greek. And “man” is not in verse 48 or 49. It is in verse 47, where is says, “the second MAN is from heaven”, though. Maybe you could spin your “angel/human” species around just that one verse?

mike

December 15, 2010 at 2:13 am#228819

Blocked

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 15 2010,08:45)

Mike,
Can you show me where Paul says that Jesus is Spirit now.

It's in the scriptures JA. I've posted it in this particular thread about 20 times already. Find it yourself. I'm done with you until you can grow up and answer my questions.

Yeah, that's right. Don't think I didn't notice how you ran from the Michael question last night. You posted some fluff that had nothing to do with what I was asking you.

My point was, if Michael as a spirit is “everywhere, all the time”, then why did it take 21 days for him to reach Daniel's angel to help him? Why was he not already right there, since he's “everywhere, all the time”?

Answer that, and I might continue with you. Don't answer it, and talk to yourself. I'm done with your avoidance of questions and points and with your petty little slams.

mike

December 15, 2010 at 2:35 am#228821

Blocked

To All,

I'm going to take Irene's advice that Pierre has apparently already acted upon. This thread was a learning experience for a while, but seems to be nothing but a platform from which JA can launch his verbal assaults.

Gene, we have nothing more to say about this matter, for you believe angels have bodies, and angels are spirits. You believe Jesus has a body, and Jesus is a spirit.

JA, although you don't believe that angels have bodies, you do believe Jesus does. And Jesus is never called a “Spirit/Man” anywhere in scripture. He WAS a man for a time, but is now a spirit.

To Kerwin, I will read your response to me, for unlike Gene and JA, I'm not just going around in circles with you. Your posts are always scriptural, respectful and intelligent, even if we are interpreting the scriptures differently.

Shimmer, I will also address any posts you make………..AS LONG AS YOU ADDRESS MY RESPONSES. You have neglected to say anything about my point that Jesus NEVER said “spirits don't have bodies”, among other things.

And to all, this is very simple for me, but I guess not for everyone.

1. If there is ever a time a spirit being is said to come from somewhere, or go to somewhere, then they aren't “everywhere, all the time” as JA thinks. And there are times like this in scripture.

2. If there is ever a place where a spirit ISN'T, then there is something distinguishing between where he IS and where he ISN'T. That “something” is a body of some kind.

3. If there are ever more than one being in existence, the thing that separates one of them from the other(s) is a body. Without a body to separate one from the other, there would not be “multiple individual beings”, but just one conglomeration of everyone into ONE being only.

peace and love to all, and thanks for your imput on this topic
mike

December 15, 2010 at 8:01 am#228840

kerwin

Participant

Mike Boll,

I read what you wrote and these are the comments that come to my mind.

You seem unable to understand the concept that there is both natural flesh, bone, and blood and spiritual flesh, bone, and blood. One major difference between spiritual flesh and natural flesh is that spiritual fleshy is cannot perish while natural flesh does. To you all flesh is the same despite 1 Corinthians 15 stating the opposite. This creates conflict over how we interpret the idea that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of heaven since I see it stating natural flesh ,which is perishable, cannot inherit the spiritual realm of heaven which is imperishable.

Going with the concept that the resurrected have a spiritual flesh and blood body that is imperishable I am able to literally interpret Paul’s words that the body that is buried is not the same body that is resurrected from the grave. I then apply this to Jesus who I know was resurrected to eternal life unlike other accounts of resurrection in scripture. That means Jesus perishable body of natural flesh and blood was placed in the tomb after it perished and it rose again as an imperishable spiritual flesh and blood body. Jesus then proposed tests to prove what I believe by eating foot and allowing some to touch him.

All I know of beings of spirit as opposed to Spirit beings is that scripture testifies of ghosts and God. One example of this is the case of the rich man and Lazarus. Ghosts do not have flesh and bone bodies but are said to have a vapor like body that resembles their appearance in life. Though they are the spirits of the dead they are actually living souls deprived of their tent.

There is some difference between a ghost and a resurrected human or one can be said to be the other. I have proposed the difference I have discerned. What is your proposal?

The disciples are known to believe in ghosts outside of Hades according to accounts of Jesus’ walking on water. That would explain why Jesus would feel a need to prove he was not so.

I do want to look at several factors involving the word translated spirit and related scriptures and words but I am unable to do so at this time.

December 15, 2010 at 9:09 am#228842

Participant

To all who read this thread.

Can we all Pray for Mikeboll (all does mean all here for even Mike can pray for himself)

Mike admits he is 'Greek' … A Greek Thomas.

“For the Greeks seek proof …”

The latter part of 1 cor 2:15 sums up Mike beautifully, 'The one who is Soiritual discerns all thing he himself is believed by no one'

Mike is that 'No one'….

Mike does not understand 'Spiritual'. He is confusing it with 'Spirit'.

Spiritual body ….is not the same as …Spirit body

The first is immaterial, the latter Material.

Mike, stop struggling in your pit when your pit is above your head.

I guess you are about six feet tall, eh?

December 15, 2010 at 3:13 pm#228862

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2010,18:01)

Mike Boll,

I read what you wrote and these are the comments that come to my mind.

Kerwin …..> I completely agree with this part of your Post, Scripture shows all resurrections contain a Body From the valley of dead bones to Jesus himself .

Mike thinks because it say the first man Adam was flesh and the last Became (can to be) life giving Spirit , is saying that means a flesh “body” and a Spirit “Body”. But what that is talking about is the sustaining type of existence, Our bodies are all recieved from Adam through DNA it simply is the same life of Adam transfered to everything living Man and women in existence by this DNA, This DNA was under the Curse of death place on ADAM and passed on to us. ” As in ADAM (ALL) Dies. This DNA has a specific Code the only allowes it to Live for a certain amount of time and then it will die and decompose. But scripture Shows that that body could have live and never died if they took hold of the tree of Life that was in the garden, but GOD prevented them from being able to take of it. This shows that the body they had could have continued to live for ever. But the (actual) Body of flesh and bone as Jesus Had will be eternally sustained by that tree of life given him from GOD'S SPIRIT and will never die because it is Spiritually regenerated. Spirit is not a body it never was it is what is (IN) a BODY.

This is another one of the biggest confusions in Christianity it is understanding WHAT SPIRIT IS. SPIRIT is what is (IN) a body it is (NOT) the BODY it is IN> But it animated the body it is IN> IMO

peace and love…………………………….gene

December 15, 2010 at 3:35 pm#228866

Participant

Mike……… Why change the wording Where Jesus said (A SPIRIT) does not have flesh and Bone as you see I HAVE. I notices you replaced the word (A) SPIRIT with (THEY) (as representing a Person of some type). And you talk about other changing words but you sure have not problem doing it right? Jesus did not say a SPIRIT (BEING) does not have flesh and bone did he, He said (A) SPIRIT, that is talking about all Spirit. NOW COMMON SENSE WOULD TELL YOU IF THE SPIRIT (IN) A MAN WHEN HE DIES GOES BACK TO THE ONE WHO GAVE (IT), and (IT) A Spirit doesn not have flesh and bone , the SPIRIT then does not have a body of any kind. SPIRIT IS simply (INTELLECT) what animates a BODY, Spirit is not a body of any-kind (IT) is the LIFE of the BODY all life forms have SPIRIT (IN) them even Animals do. SPIRIT can be POURED out, can you pour out bodies, perhaps you doubt that , go read JOULE Where GOD said he would pour forth of His SPIRIT upon (ALL) FLESH. Is that a bunch of spirit bodies he is pouring forth on people as you think. Mike trust me you have no idea what you are talking about on this subject. IMO

peace and love……………………………………………………gene

December 15, 2010 at 4:05 pm#228871

gollamudi

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 16 2010,01:13)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2010,18:01)

Mike Boll,

I read what you wrote and these are the comments that come to my mind.

Kerwin …..> I completely agree with this part of your Post, Scripture shows all resurrections contain a Body From the valley of dead bones to Jesus himself .

This is another one of the biggest confusions in Christianity it is understanding WHAT SPIRIT IS. SPIRIT is what is (IN) a body it is (NOT) the BODY it is IN> But it animated the body it is IN> IMO

peace and love…………………………….gene

Hi brother Gene,
Sorry to interfere here on this subject. I don't see anything like Spiritual flesh and blood as per Paul's 1 Cor 15. It is only implied that he received an immortal (Spirit) body. But the Gospel writers had gone one step extra to prove that Jesus rose with the same body which was crucified but with unnatural characters. Therefore they mentioned he had body with wounds and holes as per John and he has flesh and bones as per Luke. Paul did not agree with these writers in terms of resurrection where he says this mortal body is sown to get new immortal body which would be entirely different from that of mortal. Here he never says resurrected Jesus had flesh and bones rather he says he became life-giving Spirit just like God who is the source of all life. Here is the problem with the writers of N.T. One side Paul says flesh and blood which is animated soul can not inherit Kingdom of God on the other side Gospel writers claim Jesus' body was not corrupted in the grave but he rose with same body and appeared to his disciples. Paul uses the word “appear” and he never differentiated his experience of resurrected Jesus with that of other Apostles and disciples. There lies the key on understanding the pattern of resurrection of Jesus. Paul could have not claimed Jesus rose with similar flesh and bone body with crucifixion wounds as claimed by Gospel writers. Please don't forget that Paul's Epistles are the earlier versions than those of Gospels. Even in the Old testament the angels came in human form and ate material food as in the case of Abraham feeding three angels. We don't expect that they also could have flesh and bones as Christianity claims. Jewish resurrection never depends on non-corruption of physical body as claimed by Gospels and Acts. It is all confusion created by these writers based on their human understanding to refute the allegations of Gnostics who saw material body as evil. Therefore they added more color to these stories of resurrection.

Peace and love to you
Adam

December 15, 2010 at 4:12 pm#228873

Baker

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 15 2010,18:01)

Mike Boll,

I read what you wrote and these are the comments that come to my mind.

There is some difference between a ghost and a resurrected human or one can be said to be the other. I have proposed the difference I have discerned. What is your proposal?

The disciples are known to believe in ghosts outside of Hades according to accounts of Jesus’ walking on water. That would explain why Jesus would feel a need to prove he was not so.

I do want to look at several factors involving the word translated spirit and related scriptures and words but I am unable to do so at this time.

Kerwin, You say that Spirit beings are divine and cannot die. That is not so. the only Spirit beings that are divine is Almighty God and Jesus now, after His resurrection. Those Angels that went with Lucifer who became Satan are now Demons. Those will have their rewards in the Lake of fire, which is the second death, along with Antichrist and all that follow him……
Scriptures have taught me that there are bodies according to the will of Almighty God.

1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

Who are we to say that He did not do so…….

Notice to every seed his own body…..

1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.

Please look up what celestial means. my Webster dictonary says that they are heavenly…..

Peace and love Irene

December 15, 2010 at 4:37 pm#228883

Participant

Adam…………I absolute do not think SPIRIT is FLESH at all. It is Not it is SPIRIT (INTELLECT) that resides (IN) all life forms in existence. If GOD were to retract his spirit all things that has life (IN) them would die. My argument is SPIRIT is NOT a body nor doest it HAVE a BODY of any kind, it is what is (IN) Bodies. WE all have Spirit (IN) us or we could not live it is what life itself is. Remember what Jesus said “the words (expressed intellect) (ARE) SPIRIT (AND) LIFE”. They are (both) Spirit and life, That is the way i see it , i am not sure if it disagree with what you are saying or not brother.

peace and love to you and yours Adam……………………………………………gene

December 15, 2010 at 4:45 pm#228886

Participant

To ALL……….Paul describes the celestial bodies as the sun moon and stars all Physical seen bodies and that was what he was talking about. Not some unseen “Spirit BODY”.

Peace and lvoe to you all……………………………………………..gene

December 15, 2010 at 5:17 pm#228891

Baker

Participant

If we look up what celestial bodies mean, we would know that it is not the moon or the stars or anything you see, but it is heavenly…..while terrestrial means moon and stars etc. Peace and love Irene

December 15, 2010 at 10:18 pm#228904

Participant

Irene,
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…..

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha….

Irene,

Irene….

Please write that again….

TERRESTIAL means what?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha…

Sorry….sorry…sorry… I didn't mean to laugh….

This is a very sad moment…..

What are 'Terrestail Bodies'?

And what are 'Celestial bodies'?

December 15, 2010 at 10:21 pm#228906

Participant

To all,

Please see how Mikeboll, Irene and Terrarica, have all been blessed with the Stupor of blustering.

Please do not lie to the Holy Spirit else you will become like these 'Three Kings' here.

December 15, 2010 at 10:24 pm#228907

Participant

Mike, Irene, Terra,

Can I speak to God on you behalf for your forgiveness?

Just say you were in grave error and have now come to the realisation of your sins in the exposition of certain Scriptural renderings…

December 15, 2010 at 10:45 pm#228908

kerwin

Participant

Irene,

I am using the wording from 1 Corinthians 15 that speak of the natural body becoming the spiritual body and the perishable becomes the imperishable. As for those who undergo the second death the whether they have a perishable or imperishable body is irrelevant as God can destroy anything he creates.

December 15, 2010 at 10:59 pm#228909