Do spirits have bodies?

[JustAskin]

Mike,
It seems that there is only one single so-called 'proof' that Spirits have bodies in the Scriptures.
And, in fact, the so-called 'proof' is not even proof, but a desperate concoction by Mikeboll because he realised there was nothing else.

Paul quite clearly outlines two sets of bodies: Celestial and Terrestial.

Mikeboll and his companions wrongly, and in my opinion, deliberately mistranslate 'Celestial' as meaning 'of Heaven' (Singular, the abode of God and Angels).

Irene claims that her dictionary told her that that is what it meant but as much as it may mention 'heaven' she is probably explicitly looking only for a dictionary that supports her view, rather than a general definition.

Anyone can do the most simplistic search on the internet or in a 'normal' dictionary and see that the word 'Celestial' means 'Sky'. Moreover, galactic space, because the people of the time believed that the Sky contained the heavenly realm. Therefore, the Sun, moon and Stars, were in the 'Celestial heavens' therefore, Celestial bodies.

Virtually every dictionary i've checked in defines 'Celestial' as Sun, Moon and Stars. And this is exactly how Paul shows this.

Yet, Mike, Irene and Terrarica, ignore this and claim Paul says there are 'Celestial Bodies', meaning 'Angels'…when there is absolutely no mention of such.

Since Paul goes to all the trouble of outlining Terrestial bodies as Man, animals, fish and bird…and then outlines Celestial bodies as Sun, Moon and Stars…why, if he meant Celestial as something else, why did he not outline what …spritual celestial bodies are?

Nowhere in the chapter does Paul stray from talking about Mankind.

Please show where Paul begins talking about Spirits, Angels…. Please…

And is this the only 'proof' in the whole Scriptures where Mike, Irene and Terra can show 'Spirit with body'.

I notice that there is a subtle change of writing …a moving towards 'Spiritual Bodies'…which is NOT the same as 'Spirits with Bodies'.

Mikeboll quite rightly 'ignores' my post because, although he read it, he says he didn't, he sees the truth but needs to continue with subtle changes in his views…eventually he will be saying that Spirits don't have bodies and then vehemently disagreeing that he ever said they did, such is his pride….

In any case, when he and the others (and when Mike changes, the others will too) change…it will be interesting to look back at this thread and see how it all occured…

In any case, when they come to the truth, they will be equally blessed as much as those who were already in the truth from the beginning (The prize for being in the truth, is the same, no matter when you start believing in it. Only as long as you remain in it till the end, are in it 'At the End')

[mikeboll64]

JA,

You are so off base it isn't even funny.

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 12 2010,03:52)

Paul quite clearly outlines two sets of bodies: Celestial and Terrestial. Mikeboll and his companions wrongly, and in my opinion, deliberately mistranslate 'Celestial' as meaning 'of Heaven'. Irene claims that her dictionary told her that that is what it meant but as much as it may mention 'heaven' she is probably explicitly looking only for a dictionary that supports her view, rather than a general definition.

JA, Irene quoted from Webster's, the world's most renown dictionary.  I quoted the same thing from Dictionary.com.  But just so you know that there are many more people involved in this conspiracy to prove you wrong than just me, Irene, Webster's and Dictionary.com, I submit our fellow conspirists:

NET ©
And there are heavenly bodies and earthly bodies. The glory of the heavenly body is one sort and the earthly another.

NIV 1Co 15:40
There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendour of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendour of the earthly bodies is another.

NASB 1Co 15:40
There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another.

NLT 1Co 15:40
There are bodies in the heavens, and there are bodies on earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the beauty of the earthly bodies.

MSG 1Co 15:40
You get a hint at the diversity of resurrection glory by looking at the diversity of bodies not only on earth but in the skies–

BBE 1Co 15:40
And there are bodies of heaven and bodies of earth, but the glory of the one is different from that of the other.

NRSV 1Co 15:40
There are both heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one thing, and that of the earthly is another.

NKJV 1Co 15:40
There are also celestial bodies and terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

Irene and I had written letters to the major Bible translators and asked them to help us with our conspiracy.  And to our surprise, every single one of them agreed to change “celestial” to “heavenly”……..except the NKJV.

Okay, so I was having a little fun with you.  JA, is everything that is “celestial” visible to the human eye?  What you fail to comprehend even though experts tell you is that “celestial” refers both to things VISIBLE in the heavens AND to things INVISIBLE in the heavens.

JA, do you think Paul was saying we would be raised with bodies like the sun, moon and stars?    Or do you think it's more logical that Paul was using the sun, moon and stars to show by demonstration that bodies in heaven are different than bodies on earth?

This is a VERY SIMPLE question JA.  Can you answer it?  And while you're at it, how about answering this one from my last post to you:

JA, can you BRIEFLY and DIRECTLY answer this point?

Paul said there are earthly bodies and heavenly spiritual bodies.  He said that as WAS Adam, so ARE those of earth.  And as IS Jesus, so ARE those of heaven.

I don't see “so WILL BE those of heaven once the rest are raised”……….do you?    So doesn't it mean that Jesus is now like those who ALREADY ARE of heaven?

mike

[mikeboll64]

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 12 2010,03:52)

Mikeboll quite rightly 'ignores' my post

I ignore many of your posts JA. It seems you would rather “hear” yourself talk than address the points we raise.

God gave you two ears and only one mouth for a reason JA. You should listen twice as much as you speak.

Answer my points in the last post or I'm done even discussing this with you. I won't continue to “cast pearls before swine”.

peace, love and understanding to you,
mike

[GeneBalthrop]

MIke…………It is amazing how you can even take a simply sentence like there are Celestial bodies ( meaning heavenly bodies) like the sun and moon and stars, and there are Terrestrial (meaning “Terra” or earth) bodies and get so screw up over that simple statement, with anyone having spirit “BODIES”. you have not shown ONE Scripture the PROVES there is any Such thing as a SPIRIT BODY in any FORM. Does GOD also have a BODY if so why did John say No man has ever seen GOD. Why did Jesus say a Spirit doe not have a body as He had after his resurrection, He had a flesh and bone body just as he said he had , and in the vision of the valley of dyed bones GOD recreated BODIES of BONE and FLESH and add Spirit back into them and said that was the whole house of Israel, Seem you view and What GOD said and will do is quite different.

Mike lets be honest for a change TRUTH is NOT what you SEEK but to just push your own form of religion. and it doesn't matter if you must change word or contexts to fit them either, it appears. IMO

peace and love………………………………………..gene

[JustAskin]

Mike,
You do the first wise thing today, since it is obvious you are crawling towards the truth and your knees are sore.

It's amazing that you are suggesting such a silly thing that I am implying that Paul is suggesting that we will be raised up as 'Sun, moon and Stars'.

This shows how desperate you are as no one ever ever ever implied any such nonesense. Where, out of left of field, did your warped mind dredge that from.

You then make a revelationary statement..suggestion, an eye opener for you. Well done, son.
You say that perhas Paul is comparing Terrestial bodies with Celestial bodies.

Mike, that is amazing…you have just hit on something….finally…

Yes, Mike, yes….yes, yes…Paul is comparing earthly bodies with bodies of the skies….comparing Man, fish, bird and animals with Sun, Moon and Stars….

Welcome to the penfold, brother!

How is it that just as you admit that Paul is comparing different types of bodies but does not mention anything to do with Angels, you decide you no longer want to converse with me?

Mike, there is no shame in doing the right thing. Be glad, as I am glad for you that you have broken the stupor.

I said i would open the sheeppen for you…all.. to enter and I would not gloat…so try me…

And, Celestial means 'glowing body', 'giving off light' … That is why there is 'Sun', 'Moon' (Rebounded light) and Stars.
Invisible objects don't give off light in context.

The quoted bible renderings even state…'the Glory of the Celestial bodies'…'the glory of their light'. Which Angel Spirits give off light…in the Celestial HeavenS, the visible Skies….?

[kerwin]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2010,20:06)

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2010,18:07) My convictions on this matter lead me to conclude that the natural flesh and blood body of Jesus was buried after his crucifixion and that he rose in his imperishable spiritual body on the day of his resurrection and it is that body that his students of the time bear witness to. Hi Kerwin, Could it be that Jesus was raised with the body he died with but then later ascended to heaven in his new spiritual body? mike

Mike Boll,

It is doubtful as the body Jesus was raised with did not perish even though it bore the same wounds that had proved fatal to it before. Another point is according to scripture the body that is buried is not the body that is raised.

I know of no scripture that would support the conclusion that his body was transformed afterward, Even in the description of his ascension there is no mention of such a transformation. In addition when he returns scripture seems to imply he will still look the same.

[GeneBalthrop]

To ALL…………..> God is Spirit and give off the light (of intellect) that enlightens every man coming into the world. The spirit if GOD is what life (IS). and he [puts His spirit in his angles who have bodies also as well as Man and all creation that has life in it,as a result it has GOD in it also, or it could not live. Trying to make a Spirit BODY being is can not be done Spirit is what is in a body and the ONLY ONE who can exist as SPIRIT being out side a body is the LORD GOD himself.

Man is only a “LITTLE” Lower then the Angels it says and that is because Man has a BODY that Can DIE and corrupt , and he can cease to exist, as a being or living soul, where an Angel Has a BODY that can not die. AS Jesus had after the resurrection a body that could never die again. That body was flesh and bone not a spirit body but Spirit was in that body just as Spirit is in our present bodies also and it keep it alive until it leaves it. and then the flesh returns to the earth where it came from.

It is absolutely necessary we are resurected and given a new Body with Spirit added back into it in order fro us to become a living soul again after we die. IMO

peace and love to you all…………………………………..gene

[Baker]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2010,09:01)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2010,20:06) Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2010,18:07) My convictions on this matter lead me to conclude that the natural flesh and blood body of Jesus was buried after his crucifixion and that he rose in his imperishable spiritual body on the day of his resurrection and it is that body that his students of the time bear witness to. Hi Kerwin, Could it be that Jesus was raised with the body he died with but then later ascended to heaven in his new spiritual body? mike Mike Boll, It is doubtful as the body Jesus was raised with did not perish even though it bore the same wounds that had proved fatal to it before.  Another point is according to scripture the body that is buried is not the body that is raised. I know of no scripture that would support the conclusion that his body was transformed afterward,  Even in the description of his ascension there is no mention of such a transformation.  In addition when he returns scripture seems to imply he will still look the same.

Kerwin! If you believe that Jesus went to Heaven, then you should also believe that He was not with the body He died with. Why?? Because Scripture says that

1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Also Jesus said this

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus was a Spirit Body before He became a man. And to that He went back to….

Peace and Love irene

[kerwin]

Pierre,

I mentioned enough of the occurrences of angel to point out the similarities of the bodies of some to Jesus’ after his resurrection.

I agree that events involving angels involve them having bodies and those claiming they do not need to explain those occurrences. The different types of angel bodies are not the topic of this thread.

I used scripture to reach the conclusions in my post that linked Paul’s words about the resurrected body to Jesus’ resurrected body. A for Jews; the Old Testament, The Gospels, and even the rest of Scripture is part of their history. God is the one that chose the Hebrews to bring the gospel to the rest of the nations. Glorify God for that as his choice is the righteous choice.

Please, I would like to know how you used godly principles and scriptures to test what I wrote. Thank you!

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 12 2010,02:19)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 12 2010,01:58) Mike………And what of you scriptural contradictions and dishonest approaches as changing word in the text and forcing them to you personal conclusions as i have just posted to you concerning where you change the text to say flesh and (blood) where Jesus said flesh and (Bone), You present yourself as a hypocrite accusing others what you yourself do. And running to T8 and accusing JA and others of abuses when in fact you are just as bad as they are, is most dishonest on your part also. IMO peace and love ………………………………….gene Gene, Everything you accuse me of in this post is what YOU do.  I already answered your “flesh and bone” point.  Did you read it?  Where's your RESPONSE to my explanation?  No where. Just like your RESPONSE to any points I clarify for you – like the word “IN” not being in John 1:14.   You ignore the clear, truthful and SCRIPTURAL responses I give you and just keep posting the same things over and over without ever actually addressing the part where scripture PROVES YOU WRONG!   YOU are the one presenting yourself as a hypocrite, not me.  And that is why I very seldom even respond to your posts anymore.  They are nothing but unscriptural fluff in most cases. And as a moderator, I can give warnings as needed.  But in this case, since JA is also a moderator, t8 has personally asked me to just report the abusive posts and let him deal with it.   mike

Mike……….Well i am glad about that or you would already have kicked JA of the site it appears, as you have others like Martian i believe. T8 does show some restraint as i have noticed, I have been here over five years or so nearly every day and i have had all kinds of things said about me , and call just about everything any of you have and more, but i can honestly say i have never tried to get anyone kicked off the site.

I am not saying a person should not be warned about abusive language, but i have seen many here do it and never get warned to my knowledge , Including you. Your words at time can be considered to be abusive also. So before i start throwing rocks and organizing a lenching campaign i would consider the glass house your living in if i were you.

Did not Jesus say to have SALT in ourselves and also have peace. JA is a little salty at time but i don't see that as all that bad really. IMO

peace and love……………………………..gene

[kerwin]

Irene,

You wrote:

Quote

Kerwin! If you believe that Jesus went to Heaven, then you should also believe that He was not with the body He died with. Why?? Because Scripture says that 1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

Scripture also declares:

1 Corinthians 15:37(NIV):

Quote

When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.

For this scripture to be true it follows that Jesus was not in the body he died with.

So we need to interpret both scripture so they are both true. I pointed out that it is only speculation that Jesus was transformed after he ascended to heaven and transforms again before he returns again.

[Baker]

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2010,09:32)

Irene, You wrote: Quote Kerwin!  If you believe that Jesus went to Heaven, then you should also believe that He was not with the body He died with.  Why?? Because Scripture says that 1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Scripture also declares: 1 Corinthians 15:37(NIV): Quote When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. For this scripture to be true it follows that Jesus was not in the body he died with. So we need to interpret both scripture so they are both true.  I pointed out that it is only speculation that Jesus was transformed after he ascended to heaven and transforms again before he returns again.

Kerwin, no it is not just speculation, it is according to Scriptures.
But you fail to go on to verse

1Cr 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

If flesh and blood does not inherit God's Kingdom of God, then would you not say then that Jesus is a Spirit being now…

1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Peace and love Irene

[Baker]

Kerwin! Also you believe that Jesus will come back as flesh body?

This Scripture tells us what he will comeback as

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

was Jesus flesh and blood when He was The Word of God John 1:1

Peace and Love Irene

[JustAskin]

Mike,

1 Corinthian 15:48 'As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust;'
Those who are of the Flesh think and live in the flesh and will die, their bodies going into corruption…

'and as is the Heavenly Man, so are those who are heavenly'
'Those who think and live a heavenly life are like the Spiritual Man, Christ Jesus, a glorified Spirit'

Angels are not 'Glorified Spirits'…because, 'to which of the Angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have become your father', and again, 'he was declared to be the Son of God with Power'

Mike, if Angels are like the risen Christ, then the risen Christ has no PreEminence.

How is Jesus 'before all things' if he is only like 'them'.

And if he was 'better than them, better than the Angels', then 'so also are those are like him', that is, 'Glorified Sons of the living God with power'…vs 49: '…we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man'

Mike, why is Jesus called 'the heavenly man'?
why not just 'a heavenly Spirit'?

What is the significance of Jesus still being 'Man in the Heavenly form', 'Man in Spirit'…a new creation…

(So now, entities in Heaven: God, SpiritMan and Angels)

[JustAskin]

Mike,

Paul says there are 'earthly bodies' and there are 'heavenly bodies'

The earthly body, sown in curruption, will be raised in 'Glorious Uncurruption', raised in 'power'….where have we heard of a body, a person, being 'raised in power'..Jesus, perhaps.
Did any Angel get adapted to a spiritual body with power?

A Spirit has no 'body'. That's why it is called 'Spirit'.

There is Flesh and there is Spirit.
Flesh [alone] is [an unAnimated] body, It requires a 'Spirit' to drive it.

If Spirit has a body, then how does it occupy more than one body at a time?

How is God in them all?

How is the Spirit of Jesus in them all?

How can legions of Spirits exist in the body on one man and a single Spirit also exist in legions of people…at the same time?

[gollamudi]

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 12 2010,10:15)

Mike, 1 Corinthian 15:48 'As was the man of dust, so also are those who are made of dust;' Those who are of the Flesh think and live in the flesh and will die, their bodies going into corruption… 'and as is the Heavenly Man, so are those who are heavenly' 'Those who think and live a heavenly life are like the Spiritual Man, Christ Jesus, a glorified Spirit' Angels are not 'Glorified Spirits'…because, 'to which of the Angels did God ever say, 'You are my Son, today I have become your father', and again, 'he was declared to be the Son of God with Power' Mike, if Angels are like the risen Christ, then the risen Christ has no PreEminence. How is Jesus 'before all things' if he is only like 'them'. And if he was 'better than them, better than the Angels', then 'so also are those are like him', that is, 'Glorified Sons of the living God with power'…vs 49: '…we shall also bear the image of the heavenly man' Mike, why is Jesus called 'the heavenly man'? why not just 'a heavenly Spirit'? What is the significance of Jesus still being 'Man in the Heavenly form', 'Man in Spirit'…a new creation… (So now, entities in Heaven: God, SpiritMan and Angels)

It is good post brother JustAskin. There seems to be truth in your arguments.

Peace to you
Adam

[karmarie]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2010,13:52)

Quote (Shimmer @ 7) So it seems anyone who says Jesus is not still in the flesh is a deceiver according to the Bible.   That is not at all what those scriptures are saying Shimmer.  They are addressed towards those who claim the Messiah had not come at all.  They say nothing about Jesus STILL being flesh, only that we must believe that God's only begotten Son and Christ DID come in the flesh.

No Mike, and also Irene and Terrarica and Ed,

what it means is this…..

In the early Church they had false people among them who believed lies. They were Gnostics. Gnostics believed that Jesus was here in Spirit only. That He came and appeared after the crucifixion as Spirit only as well.

The Gnostics then added to that…..That the God of the Old Testament was some small god who was bad. That Jesus' real Father was another.

So when the Disciples such as John warn and say the 'antichrist' is He who denies that Jesus came in the flesh…………..this is what it means.

The truth is Jesus did come in the flesh. Born and lived as we do.  He was risen from the dead – in the flesh.  (This is why He showed them His hands and feet to prove it was really Him risen in His body and why He ate food…to show them He really was risen. That He was not a Ghost or anything).

Then He was taken up to Heaven. He left this way. And will return the same way.

So you also have people here today (such as Ed or TK) who say Jesus returned already in Spirit. But He has not returned yet. The Holy Spirit is here but not the Body of Jesus.

So it's important to keep that in mind. Many people give a date to when they believe Jesus will return. That date come's and goes. Nothing happens. So then they say “He did return but invisibly…in Spirit”….see that ?

So to believe that He was risen and went to Heaven in spirit only, you are holding onto some of the Gnostic teaching's.

[karmarie]

Quote (Ed J @ Dec. 11 2010,14:25)

Hi Karmarie, I don't read imported opinions, because it takes a person to reason with! (Isaiah 1:18) Jesus came back with his Father (HolySpirit) in Spirit form to indwell with us starting on “Pentecost”! (Click Here) (John 14:23 / Heb.9:27 / Matt.26:64 / Mark 13:26 / Matt.24:30) Witnessing to the world in behalf of YHVH (Psalm 45:17) 117=יהוה האלהים (JEHOVAH GOD) YÄ-hä-vā  hä ĔL-ō-Hêêm! Ed J (AKJV Joshua 22:34 / Isaiah 60:13-15) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

Hi Ed.

Do you still believe Jesus has returned ?

So tell me Ed is He still to return again ? What is to come in your opinion ?

Also, you say you don't read 'imported opinions' HAHA ED that's just because their opinions disagree with you.

These opinions were written 130 AD.

Have you ever heard of Chinese Whispers ? The closer you can get to the beginning is the closer to the truth you will hear.

If you don't read others opinions who were Saints by the way, you expect other's to read your opinions Ed.

And what does your opinion say………hmmmm, ok I wont get into that.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 12 2010,20:56)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2010,13:52) Quote (Shimmer @ 7) So it seems anyone who says Jesus is not still in the flesh is a deceiver according to the Bible.   That is not at all what those scriptures are saying Shimmer.  They are addressed towards those who claim the Messiah had not come at all.  They say nothing about Jesus STILL being flesh, only that we must believe that God's only begotten Son and Christ DID come in the flesh. No Mike, and also Irene and Terrarica and Ed, what it means is this….. In the early Church they had false people among them who believed lies. They were Gnostics. Gnostics believed that Jesus was here in Spirit only. That He came and appeared after the crucifixion as Spirit only as well. The Gnostics then added to that…..That the God of the Old Testament was some small god who was bad. That Jesus' real Father was another. So when the Disciples such as John warn and say the 'antichrist' is He who denies that Jesus came in the flesh…………..this is what it means. The truth is Jesus did come in the flesh. Born and lived as we do.  He was risen from the dead – in the flesh.  (This is why He showed them His hands and feet to prove it was really Him risen in His body and why He ate food…to show them He really was risen. That He was not a Ghost or anything). Then He was taken up to Heaven. He left this way. And will return the same way. So you also have people here today (such as Ed or TK) who say Jesus returned already in Spirit. But He has not returned yet. The Holy Spirit is here but not the Body of Jesus. So it's important to keep that in mind. Many people give a date to when they believe Jesus will return. That date come's and goes. Nothing happens. So then they say “He did return but invisibly…in Spirit”….see that ? So to believe that He was risen and went to Heaven in spirit only, you are holding onto some of the Gnostic teaching's.

Karmarie…………You have it right, anyone who does not believe Jesus came into existence as a flesh being is Antichrist this is the Spirit that separates Jesus from our own personal identity , it is the spirit of both the trinitarians and preexistences as well as that of the Gnostic's. It all serves to drive a wedge between Jesus and us making him something different then we are, it is truly Antichrist.

Jesus was a MAN when He left this earth with a flesh body and will return in the same manner as he left as a son of Man , he is the son of GOD just as all Men can be a SONS of GOD by the exact same process and can overcome (exactly) as He did by the (exact) same power working (IN) them The Spirit of the Living GOD. IMO

peace and love to you and yours…………………..gene

[Baker]

Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 12 2010,20:56)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2010,13:52) Quote (Shimmer @ 7) So it seems anyone who says Jesus is not still in the flesh is a deceiver according to the Bible.   That is not at all what those scriptures are saying Shimmer.  They are addressed towards those who claim the Messiah had not come at all.  They say nothing about Jesus STILL being flesh, only that we must believe that God's only begotten Son and Christ DID come in the flesh. No Mike, and also Irene and Terrarica and Ed, what it means is this….. In the early Church they had false people among them who believed lies. They were Gnostics. Gnostics believed that Jesus was here in Spirit only. That He came and appeared after the crucifixion as Spirit only as well. The Gnostics then added to that…..That the God of the Old Testament was some small god who was bad. That Jesus' real Father was another. So when the Disciples such as John warn and say the 'antichrist' is He who denies that Jesus came in the flesh…………..this is what it means. The truth is Jesus did come in the flesh. Born and lived as we do.  He was risen from the dead – in the flesh.  (This is why He showed them His hands and feet to prove it was really Him risen in His body and why He ate food…to show them He really was risen. That He was not a Ghost or anything). Then He was taken up to Heaven. He left this way. And will return the same way. So you also have people here today (such as Ed or TK) who say Jesus returned already in Spirit. But He has not returned yet. The Holy Spirit is here but not the Body of Jesus. So it's important to keep that in mind. Many people give a date to when they believe Jesus will return. That date come's and goes. Nothing happens. So then they say “He did return but invisibly…in Spirit”….see that ? So to believe that He was risen and went to Heaven in spirit only, you are holding onto some of the Gnostic teaching's.

Shimmer! yes, Jesus came in the flesh. yes, Jesus did rise from the death in the flesh. But NO He did not go to Heaven in the flesh. He appeared to Thomas in the flesh because He did not believe that Jesus rose from the death.
Believing that flesh and blood can enter into the Kingdom of God is false.

1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

also Jesus said this in

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

The glory Jesus had with His Father is that He was a SDpirit Being.

He will return as

Rev 19:13 And he [was] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

Rev 19:14 And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

As “The Word of God” He was a Spirit being, why? Because in John 1:1-14 it says that He became flesh. It would not say that if He was flesh already….No you are wrong my friend….And no Scriptures does not say you are a deceiver if you believe Jesus is not still in the flesh. What it does say, that if you believe that Jesus didn't come in the flesh you are. And neither Mike or Ed. Or I have said that….

Peace and Love Irene

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