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Of course I know that. When I said “you're not really connecting the dots”, I meant “a person is not really connection the dots”.
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 11 2010,10:39) Mike, Terra and Irene are trying to goad me into being aggressive so Mike can give me a block. They have reported every post as 'abuse' in the hope of getting me a block. This is their plan.
JA,Every poster on this thread has been decent to you………….UNTIL you start in with them.
I'm trying to show you scriptures and have you answer simple questions about them. Pierre is doing the same. How is that “goading”?
And only your abusive posts are being reported JA. If you don't want your posts reported, then stop posting abusive things. Btw, only 3 of your posts have been reported since yesterday…………out of about 20 that have abusive, derogatory language and attitude.
mike
Quote (karmarie @ Dec. 11 2010,10:12) Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2010,13:02) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 11 2010,04:26) If Jesus went to Heaven, and we know He did, then He is not flesh and blood. Scriptures tell us so…..
Jesus appeared to Maria Magdalene, and She thought He was the Gardner. To show certain people like Thomas, Jesus appeared as a human being, however that is not how He went to Heaven…..Scripture is clear on that.
Hi Irene,I agree.
mike
That is a lie.Why would Jesus show His Hands and feet and explain that spirits DONT HAVE BODIES ?
I don't agree with everything on this site but read this please.
http://www.letusreason.org/JW12.htm
To say Jesus was not risen in the flesh…..saying He is just as a ghost and is only spirit you are denying what He said don't you think ?
Please read what is on that site.
karmaria! i am not a liar. So you believe that Jesus went to Heaven with a fleshly body, where He died in? Is that what you are saying? Scripture says that flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom……Jesus went back to what He was befiore He became flesh.
Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
Niot only is He a Spirit Being, He is also divine and will never die again…..IreneQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2010,10:52) If God is in “the Kingdom of God”, then Jesus can't possibly still be flesh. Because flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, Shimmer. And because Jesus is where God is right now. So either Jesus is NOT flesh anymore, or God and Jesus are NOT in “the Kingdom of God”.
MIke……..Where did Jesus ever say He (was) flesh and (Blood) after his resurrection, He said Flesh and BONE, you added the Blood thing in to force you point, Also If Flesh and Blood can't enter into the kingdom of GOD them we must assume Jesus was not in the Kingdom of GOD while on earth nor his disciples either , So when he said the Kingdom for GOD was (IN) Us then that would make Him a liar right?, because you contend that flesh and blood can't not enter into the kingdom of God. But Jesus said the Kingdom of GOD comes without observation and is (IN) YOU. How is that then if what you say is true. While flesh and blood can not enter the kingdom of GOD that does not mean that the kingdom of GOD can not come into into flesh and blood fact Jesus said it can be (IN) us.Also you need to read the where GOD said He Made his Angle's Spirits and sent the forth to minister. It is not saying he made Angels Spiirt being , but he made their spirits (intellects) (IN) them. Mike your problem is you have no idea what SPIRIT REALLY IS> It is not any kind of Body, it is what is (IN) a BODY, rather Man or Angles makes no difference. GOD is SPIRIT and WAS (IN) Jesus When he was flesh and Blood on earth. IMO
peace and love……………………………………..gene
To All…………I started a thread ounce on what Spirit (IS) maybe we all need to revisit it and get that clear first> Spirit is no a body not now or ever was , it is what is (IN) Bodies. In flesh and blood bodies and any other kind of bodies GOd has created to have life (IN) it. If it has Life It has Spirit (IN) IT> or it could not have any life at all. IMO
peace and love………………………………….gene
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 11 2010,13:14) Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 11 2010,10:39) Mike, Terra and Irene are trying to goad me into being aggressive so Mike can give me a block. They have reported every post as 'abuse' in the hope of getting me a block. This is their plan.
JA,Every poster on this thread has been decent to you………….UNTIL you start in with them.
I'm trying to show you scriptures and have you answer simple questions about them. Pierre is doing the same. How is that “goading”?
And only your abusive posts are being reported JA. If you don't want your posts reported, then stop posting abusive things. Btw, only 3 of your posts have been reported since yesterday…………out of about 20 that have abusive, derogatory language and attitude.
mike
Mike! Since JA is still being nasty, I have decided not to post to Him again….This is so ridiculous to say the least….JA does not care what Scriptures say about Spirit Beings……
Peace and Love IreneKarmarie…………….Very good site for anyone who does not believe Jesus was resurrected in a Body and Still has that body he was raised with. I agree with most all of what they said concerning the Body not bing a “Spirit body” But a Glorified Body with Spirit (IN) It. The rest of Jesus raising himself up i do not agree with however and the Trinity thing. But scripture does truly show our bodies are truly material bodies of some-kind with spirit (IN) them. No one can exist outside of a body except GOD Himself. He can exist both outside and inside bodies. IMO
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………..gene
To all,
According to 1 Corinthians 15:36-39 the answer to what kind of body wills the dead be raised with is that it will not be the body that is sown and it will have flesh as God determines. According to verses 42-44 the body that is sown is perishable and natural while the body that is raised is imperishable and spiritual. We also read that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, nor can the perishable inherit the imperishable. Since this is true is it also true for Jesus. I am convinced it is since he also is a human being.
My convictions on this matter lead me to conclude that the natural flesh and blood body of Jesus was buried after his crucifixion and that he rose in his imperishable spiritual body on the day of his resurrection and it is that body that his students of the time bear witness to.
We know that according to Jesus, in Luke 24:39, ghosts, aka phantasms, do not have flesh and bones. It therefore follows that he did indeed have flesh and bones after his resurrection from the dead. He also ate food in order to give further proof that he was not a phantasm to those some here have accused of being pagans because of their belief in ghosts.
Since Jesus has flesh then according to how some chooses to interpret 1 Corinthians 15:50 Jesus in his imperishable spiritual body cannot enter the kingdom of heaven but a ghost can.
Some may claim that Jesus has the ability to become like a ghost as well as the form he presented to the disciples. This seems deceptive but is perhaps plausible if his purpose was merely to convince his students he was not a ghost.
The ability to shape change in a like manner is credited to angels by some. I know of no scripture that actually supports such conjectures about either Jesus or the angels. I do know the angels in the story of the two angels who visited Lot appeared to exhibit both the ability to be touched and the ability to eat, Genesis 19:1-11. I also know that an angel appeared to Moses in the burning bush but I am not sure what form he was, Exodus 3:2. This though is not a thread about form.
Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 12 2010,01:07) To all, According to 1 Corinthians 15:36-39 the answer to what kind of body wills the dead be raised with is that it will not be the body that is sown and it will have flesh as God determines. According to verses 42-44 the body that is sown is perishable and natural while the body that is raised is imperishable and spiritual. We also read that flesh and blood cannot enter the kingdom of heaven, nor can the perishable inherit the imperishable. Since this is true is it also true for Jesus. I am convinced it is since he also is a human being.
My convictions on this matter lead me to conclude that the natural flesh and blood body of Jesus was buried after his crucifixion and that he rose in his imperishable spiritual body on the day of his resurrection and it is that body that his students of the time bear witness to.
We know that according to Jesus, in Luke 24:39, ghosts, aka phantasms, do not have flesh and bones. It therefore follows that he did indeed have flesh and bones after his resurrection from the dead. He also ate food in order to give further proof that he was not a phantasm to those some here have accused of being pagans because of their belief in ghosts.
Since Jesus has flesh then according to how some chooses to interpret 1 Corinthians 15:50 Jesus in his imperishable spiritual body cannot enter the kingdom of heaven but a ghost can.
Some may claim that Jesus has the ability to become like a ghost as well as the form he presented to the disciples. This seems deceptive but is perhaps plausible if his purpose was merely to convince his students he was not a ghost.
The ability to shape change in a like manner is credited to angels by some. I know of no scripture that actually supports such conjectures about either Jesus or the angels. I do know the angels in the story of the two angels who visited Lot appeared to exhibit both the ability to be touched and the ability to eat, Genesis 19:1-11. I also know that an angel appeared to Moses in the burning bush but I am not sure what form he was, Exodus 3:2. This though is not a thread about form.
Kerwinyou should have continued ;Jacob fights with a angel;
Abraham ad diner with them ,and about Balam,
and what is a body but a form; you are a form different from my form,yet in similar materiel,but totally different in DNA;
you have misunderstood Christ,and you have Jewish believe
that Christ was buried after is dead;
you are not a true christian you are a hybrid half Jewish and half Christian,this will be rejected by God and Christ
either you believe Christ and scriptures or men.
Pierre
Woweee…
I knew it would happen…
Everyone of the 'three kings' has stopped claiming that Spirits have bodies but are now claiming there are 'Spiritual Bodies'.
Bodies with Spirits…is not the same as 'Spirit Bodies' (Technically, 'A body with A Spirit' is not the same as 'A Spirit Body')
The first, 'A spirit in a body' is two separate entities united in one.
The Spirit is one entity. And the body is another.
A balloon…blown up….you can see the balloon (the body) but you can't see the gas (the Spirit) inside.
But you can see the effect that the gas has on the balloon, inflating it into whatever outer shape the ballon has, and it can have many…a CocaCola Can, a Sheep, a normal rounded shape, a long thin stick for making models….anything….many things….
Now…kill the balloon, pop it!
Where did the Spirit gas go….?What was the shape of the gas, the spirit, in the body of the balloon?
The gas/Spirit, went back into the ether/heaven.
What is it's body…shape….yet, say this…: If every atom of every molecule of that gas 'knew' itself as part of that gas 'body'…then evenas it is no longer visible in the ether, the air, amongs the other gases (yes Mike, it intermingles…,) when called upon, every atom comes back together forming that gas and can reenter a newly created body/balloon, or another balloon entirely.
The Spirit then, removed from the body, goes back to the Spirit realm, and does not need a 'body' to contain it.
My God, where do you think Heaven is? A toy cupboard in your bedroom?
Let's make room for another Spirit on the third shelf from the top, a little to the left. Yes move those other Spirits over, yes, next to Gabriel. Gabriel, fold your wings down tighter to make more roon, there's a good chap!!How obsurd? Spirits don't need 'space'…only physical objects need 'space' because the 'body' needs to remain united, together, homogenous…only a 'Spirit' can enter through and pass out entirely. Bodies, remain solidly together and cannot pass, on body through another except by one body giving way, disturbing itself.
A knife though butter, the butter gives way…a human body through water..the water gives way…
A Spirit, through the cosmos, nothing,.. Through a body,…nothing…through a fire…nothing….through a wall…through a door…nothing…
Then the Spirit materialises a 'body' and the Spirit enters the body…and the body is alive where it is at.Jesus, as Spirit, goes where he wills, a locked door is no barrier… He materialises his old body…it is real, in every way…he even needs to eat and drink to maintain that body…
Then he simple dematerialises the body and his Spirit is away, gone, disappears before the eyes of the beholders….
By the way, Jesus didn't …need… to 'rise up into the air' when he left..it was simply because the people at the time, as many now, believed that 'Heaven' is somewhere, somehow, 'Up there' in the sky….hence the term 'heavens' (Plural). That Heaven (Singular) is way…up…above the highest heavens (Plural)Jesus could just as easily simply dematerialised when standing on the ground, but he wanted to make the point that on his return, every eye would see him …and this is only possible from a high vantage point.
In fact, his return would be 'less dramatic' but 'more dramatic' than many think….no, no error….
Jesus' birth, his 'coming as man', 'servant of God', was set in dramatic tones, yet, it was serene, humble , in a manger….yet Kings came to him and bowed before him.
It was said he would fight with the power of a thousand legions…yet he was humble, never even carried a knife, when a sword was normal (Who batted an eye when they read that Peter had a sword andused it. Jesus didn't tell him off about having the sword but just for using it to defend him…) Jesus was abused, treated with cruelty, and killed, crucified….no, the power he brought was not what they were expecting but something they could not see nor comprehend..the power over Sin and unrighteousness, which is a far greater power than who owns a piece of dust on the earth.
And so, of his coming back…who has seen how the powers, the rulers of this system of things are being 'put to shame in public places'…who has seen how the rulers in this world, today, are in turmoil, nauwing their gums in anguish over unrecoverable world affairs. The futility and impotence of manmade Peace Keeping organisations like the United Nations…
Yes, dramatic, if you see it all over a long period of time condensed. But yet not dramatic if you look on a daily basis…yeah…what you say, 'this is normal…it was just bound to happen…so what? They'll sort it out, just a little hiccup, eh!'So, the Spirit 'in' a body….
Then what of the 'Spirit Body'? That is not 'spirit in a body'…that is 'the body 'OF' a Spirit….
What is the Body OF a Spirit? I glady confess i know not what that means….
But if you say, 'the Spiritual Body' then you say even a third.
This is valid…theSpiritual body, the 'body' part is not a physical 'object', it is 'subjective'…
What else can you say:
– Spiritual Water
– Spiritual Feeling
– Spiritual Healing
– Spiritusl Thought
– Spiritual Deeds
– Spiritual MattersThis last, Spiritual matters. What if i say, 'Sorry darling, can't talk, I'm attending to a body of Spiritual matters'.
Poor darling is confused…''what does he mean, 'he can't talk'…he was just talking….and what 'body' and 'matter' is he dealing with …who is she….?''So, Spiritual body…not 'Spirit body'…by changing the word, the whole context is changed. For 'Spiritual body' means:
One having the form of a Spirit, that is 'a living being without a physical body'Only now can you turn to the definition of 'Spirit Body' and define it as:
A shorthand for 'Spiritual Body'…and we just defined what 'Spiritual Body' is.Mike, this is 'recursion'…defining a thing by itself
(Mathematically: x = f(x) the definition of x is the result of a function applied to the definition of x itself.
And Mike, here is a curious thing….this is how FRACTALs are formed…..
See Mike, Science and God are the same…one is just in the other, God is in Science and Science is in God.
Science is a function of God… ( s = G(s) )Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 11 2010,14:28)
MIke……..Where did Jesus ever say He (was) flesh and (Blood) after his resurrection, He said Flesh and BONE,
Okay Gene. Then just focus on the FLESH part of the scripture, okay? FLESH CANNOT inherit the Kingdom of God.Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 11 2010,14:28)
Also you need to read the where GOD said He Made his Angle's Spirits and sent the forth to minister. It is not saying he made Angels Spiirt being , but he made their spirits (intellects) (IN) them.
Gene, why won't you answer to the scripture I “supersized” for you? Paul says that angels ARE spirits. End of story, brother.And I've already showed you many scriptures that prove the Kingdom of God is a real physical place Gene. I won't have that discussion with you again. In fact, I usually just ignore you posts anymore because you refuse to accept what the scriptures say.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (kerwin @ Dec. 11 2010,18:07) My convictions on this matter lead me to conclude that the natural flesh and blood body of Jesus was buried after his crucifixion and that he rose in his imperishable spiritual body on the day of his resurrection and it is that body that his students of the time bear witness to.
Hi Kerwin,Could it be that Jesus was raised with the body he died with but then later ascended to heaven in his new spiritual body?
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 11 2010,22:02) I knew it would happen… Everyone of the 'three kings' has stopped claiming that Spirits have bodies but are now claiming there are 'Spiritual Bodies'.
Yes JA,Spirit beings would have spiritual bodies. Just like earthly beings have earthly bodies. It's what we've been saying all along.
I didn't bother to read the rest of your post. Too long and full of “the world according to JA”. I skimmed it for scriptural support and didn't see any.
mike
JA, can you BRIEFLY and DIRECTLY answer this point?
Paul said there are earthly bodies and heavenly spiritual bodies. He said that as WAS Adam, so ARE those of earth. And as IS Jesus, so ARE those of heaven.
I don't see “so WILL BE those of heaven once the rest are raised”……….do you?
So doesn't it mean that Jesus is now like those who ALREADY ARE of heaven?mike
JA……………..Spirit is what is the LIFE of a BODY, it animates it , there is no such thing as a Spirit Body as you wrongly infer there is only Spirit (IN) bodies , Jesus had a Body with Spirit (IN) it and GOD added HIS SEVEN SPIRITS into it also and cohabited with Jesus on the earth or do you not believe GOD WAS TRULY (IN) JESUS as he said he was. Tell us what did Paul mean when he said “But you are no longer in the flesh but in the Spirit” if so be the Christ (the anointing spirit) be (IN) YOU”. The is a carnal mined flesh body and there is a Spiritual minded flesh body.
JA try reading What the Site Kermarie Posted has to say about the resurected bodies i do agree with what they say and they post many many scriptures to prove there findings. Read it and tell us what you think.
Another thing you other analogy falls apart about a material body not being able to going through another materials body, because nothing is (truly) solid, all physical thing have far more space between there atoms then matter, it is much like space we can send a rocket ships right through space, right through the existing matter without any problems , so it is with all matter there is thousands time more space between the molecules made up of atoms then the Matter there, some thing could easily pass through the other if the right force is applied. Your true knowledge of Physics seem quite limited it appears. IMO
peace and love……………………………….gene
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 11 2010,14:33) Mike! Since JA is still being nasty, I have decided not to post to Him again….This is so ridiculous to say the least….JA does not care what Scriptures say about Spirit Beings……
Peace and Love Irene
Hi Irene,I had thought the same thing, that I just wouldn't post to him when he's being nasty. But that's not fair to all. Even if we don't acknowledge his nasty posts, he's still posting derogatory, ridiculing, and insulting things ABOUT us. I've had enough of it. t8 has promised me that if we just keep reporting the posts, he will act on it. So that's what I'm going to do.
Then maybe he will stop posting in this abusive manner. And the only problem I even have with JA is the abuse. Other than that, he is no different than anyone else here, and is entitled to his own opinion or understanding. And like Gene, he is even entitled to opinions that contradict what the scriptures teach.
All we can hope to do is lead the horse to the water Irene. We don't have the power to make him drink. But if that horse starts bucking and kicking us as we're leading him to the water, we do have some recourse. In this case, that recourse is to report the posts. So keep reporting the posts, and it will be dealt with.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 12 2010,01:17) JA, can you BRIEFLY and DIRECTLY answer this point? Paul said there are earthly bodies and heavenly spiritual bodies. He said that as WAS Adam, so ARE those of earth. And as IS Jesus, so ARE those of heaven.
I don't see “so WILL BE those of heaven once the rest are raised”……….do you?
So doesn't it mean that Jesus is now like those who ALREADY ARE of heaven?mike
Mike……….Their actual Physical bodies is not Paul's point it is what is (IN) those bodies , he is not talking about the substance or there make up of the body. What do you think He meant when he Said but you brothers are no longer in the flesh but in the spirit. He is talking about the MIND or the way they are thinking. There is a carnal (fleshly) way of thinking and there is a Spiritual way of thinking or GODLY WAY of THINKING. Those who are Godly are SPIRITUAL MINDED EVEN WITH THERE FLESH BODIES the type of body makes not difference it is what is (in) them that counts. But all life now and in the future will have a Material body of some kind with spirit (in) them. That is what it takes to be a “LIVING SOUL” Only the LORD GOD can live inside and outside his creation. He alone sustains it by the Power of HIS MIGHT> IMOMike………And what of you scriptural contradictions and dishonest approaches as changing word in the text and forcing them to you personal conclusions as i have just posted to you concerning where you change the text to say flesh and (blood) where Jesus said flesh and (Bone), You present yourself as a hypocrite accusing others what you yourself do. And running to T8 and accusing JA and others of abuses when in fact you are just as bad as they are, is most dishonest on your part also. IMO
peace and love ………………………………….gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 12 2010,01:49) Mike……….Their actual Physical bodies is not Paul's point it is what is (IN) those bodies , he is not talking about the substance or there make up of the body.
No Gene. Not at all. Paul's WHOLE point in that passage was to answer the question: “What kind of BODIES will we be raised in?”Then he goes on to talk about the different BODIES that God gives to different things.
You are mistaken, sir. Maybe you should read it again? (1 Cor 15)
mike
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 12 2010,01:58) Mike………And what of you scriptural contradictions and dishonest approaches as changing word in the text and forcing them to you personal conclusions as i have just posted to you concerning where you change the text to say flesh and (blood) where Jesus said flesh and (Bone), You present yourself as a hypocrite accusing others what you yourself do. And running to T8 and accusing JA and others of abuses when in fact you are just as bad as they are, is most dishonest on your part also. IMO peace and love ………………………………….gene
Gene,Everything you accuse me of in this post is what YOU do. I already answered your “flesh and bone” point. Did you read it? Where's your RESPONSE to my explanation? No where.
Just like your RESPONSE to any points I clarify for you – like the word “IN” not being in John 1:14.
You ignore the clear, truthful and SCRIPTURAL responses I give you and just keep posting the same things over and over without ever actually addressing the part where scripture PROVES YOU WRONG!
YOU are the one presenting yourself as a hypocrite, not me. And that is why I very seldom even respond to your posts anymore. They are nothing but unscriptural fluff in most cases.
And as a moderator, I can give warnings as needed. But in this case, since JA is also a moderator, t8 has personally asked me to just report the abusive posts and let him deal with it.
mike
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