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Oohh touchy, touchyy…and i was being nice to you…
How gentle can a sledgehammer be to soft dough?
It is you who are picking what you want to read…you are extremely narrow minded and simple in your reading…
Paul does not talk about anything to do with Spirits….
Read the whole of 1Corry15.
What is it about?
Even 1Corry15:35, what is the question that is asked…'how are the dead raised up?'
In fact, what are the preceding verses about?
What is Paul's response in verse 36?
Irene, that too, is my answer to you 'three kings'.
Why did Paul answer that way? Exactly because of the way you 'three kings' answer here. You are 'pharasee'…
You cannot understand the Spirit so you choke on God's word. The Spirit would not be harmed.How many times have i outlined in so many ways what Paul says…mikeboll point by point, verse by verse…
And what happens? Mike takes one single point…
And Terra, posts rubbish (I mean it is not conducive)
And you, you just post out of context verses proving nothing but seem so deluded by your 'so called' revelation, that your stupor overwhelms you…
You have joined forces with Mikeboll in complete error, so i forgive you… After all, you aren't the brightest sparkle in the firework box, are you?
Irene,
Here is the crux verse: 59:, Paul says, 'ALL FLESH is not the same flesh'
Irene, at what point does Paul move from talking of 'Flesh'… Matter…Matt…erial…material elements.
Even the Sun, Moon and Stars, are made of 'Matter', material elements…but each 'body' made of material matter is different in its outward glory…
You keep going on about 'sown in corrption, raised in incorruption',
Irene, Paul is still talking of flesh…
Only now, in verse 44, he says, 'there is a natural body, and there is a Spiritual body'.
This is what you tripping over… Ha ha ha…because the spirit of stupor has shown you the word 'Spiritual body'…ha ha…is that your clincher?
You know nothing…
What is Jesus now? Irene, what is Jesus now?
Is he Man or Spirit?Irene, what is Jesus now, man or Spirit?
Irene, Jesus is BOTH Man AND Spirit.
This is the new creation that all that attain Godlyness will be reborn into 'the Spiritual body'.
Irene, there was no Spirit bodied being before Jesus.
Jesus is the FIRST of this new creation….this is what Adam would have attained had he not sinned (Oh, please, i know… Don't say it..please…Irene, THINK… Jesus from Heaven into a 100% being of Man TAKING the place of Adam, and did what Adam should have done…resisted sin … And attaining the glory of 'True…Son of God, a Man in Spirit.)Irene, how do you equate this with claiming that 'Spirits have bodies'?
Do Angels die and are raised up into a 'Spirit body'?
Man, oh man, oh man… What is he that God should look upon him so as to desire to possess him as a Son?
Irene, Terra,
Mikeboll has seen the error in his thinking and is distancing himself from this post so as to sneak away claiming that JA isn't being nice to him…
Be careful how he leaves you in the lurch having led you in a merry wedding dance to the church gate…
This thread has degraded from proving 'Spirits have bodies' to saying that mankind will be a new creation in Christ when we die and are raised up again….
Why? Because Mikeboll has led it here from not finding any proof, nor is there any, that 'Spirits have bodies'.
Why no proof? Because there is no such thing…simple as…
Not none Person, Disciple, Apostle, Saint nor Prophet says so. And also, neither Jesus nor God himself…
Irene…irene,….'God gives each a body'….please,…read the context…FLESH….more definitively, Matter, material elements.
Irene, this is the glory created by God from invisible Spirit,…to a body of visible matter, visisble material, earth, sun, moon, stars, man, fish, birds, animals, all material matter…
There is no mention of 'Spirits'…why not say 'Angels' then?
Answer is simple…
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 09 2010,16:37) The discord we have here is obviously caused by Mike seeing things through the flesh…he sees 'physicsl Angels' that need bodies to exist in….the whole point of a Spirit is exactly that it doesn't exist in a body… If it has no body, then it can go anywhere, exist anywhere, forever..
JA……….Angels do have bodies with Spirits (IN) them Just as we have Bodies with Spirit (IN) them also.They might have a different type of body but non the less they are bodies. What do you think it means when it say try the Spirits to see if they are of GOD. What are you trying if not the Spirit (INTELLECT) (IN) a person and that is Spirit. And Spirit can go in and out of a person as Jesus said when an unclean spirit leaves a man it goes to (ARID) or (dry)places (seeking) REST, something to rest in , but it must exist (IN) a Body in order to find REST it seems to require some body to live in.When a man dies His Spirit returns back to him who gave it in the first place (GOD). I believe there exists no such think as a SPIRIT “BODY” . Spirit is what exists (IN) Bodies , and GOD is SPIRIT and He Can Exist (IN) Bodies and Does exist (IN) them, GOD was truly (IN) Jesus. He can exist inside or outside of his creation. That God may be ALL and through ALL.
JA………you are right a Spirit does not (NEED) a body to “EXIST” , that is true, but Spirit is useless with out a BODY to Animate. Spirits of GOD makes BODIES to DWELL IN. Spirit simply drifts in endless space restless without a body to rest in. Spirit is the life force of Bodies they are what animates us all and the angles also. GOD is the Creator of ALL SPIRITS and sends them out into his creation and they work in ALL Things that have life from the smallest creatures to the largest. Ja tell me can you see thought does thought have a Body , is the Knowledge of Good and Evil something you can see does it have a body?, No the Spirit (intellect) of GOOD and EVIL produces its effects (IN) Bodies only. God is Spirit It Self and is the only thing who can exist inside or outside of a body nothing else can. IMO.
peace and love…………………………..gene
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 09 2010,21:20) Irene, Terra, Mikeboll has seen the error in his thinking and is distancing himself from this post so as to sneak away claiming that JA isn't being nice to him…
Be careful how he leaves you in the lurch having led you in a merry wedding dance to the church gate…
This thread has degraded from proving 'Spirits have bodies' to saying that mankind will be a new creation in Christ when we die and are raised up again….
Why? Because Mikeboll has led it here from not finding any proof, nor is there any, that 'Spirits have bodies'.
Why no proof? Because there is no such thing…simple as…
Not none Person, Disciple, Apostle, Saint nor Prophet says so. And also, neither Jesus nor God himself…
Irene…irene,….'God gives each a body'….please,…read the context…FLESH….more definitively, Matter, material elements.
Irene, this is the glory created by God from invisible Spirit,…to a body of visible matter, visisble material, earth, sun, moon, stars, man, fish, birds, animals, all material matter…
There is no mention of 'Spirits'…why not say 'Angels' then?
Answer is simple…
JA You are so wrong in your thinking. I don't follow Mike or any men. I believe what Scriptures say. Just to take them out of context is denying them. It says what it says. Again for the last time, and then I will not say anything else to you about it again….1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.
First he say this and then this
1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.
celestial bodies are heavenly bodies according to Webster dictionary…while terrestrial are earthly….
now He tells us about what you can see in
1Cr 15:41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
All these are bodies…..THE END
Peace and Christian Love to you, Irene
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 10 2010,04:20) Irene, Terra, Mikeboll has seen the error in his thinking and is distancing himself from this post so as to sneak away claiming that JA isn't being nice to him…
Be careful how he leaves you in the lurch having led you in a merry wedding dance to the church gate…
This thread has degraded from proving 'Spirits have bodies' to saying that mankind will be a new creation in Christ when we die and are raised up again….
Why? Because Mikeboll has led it here from not finding any proof, nor is there any, that 'Spirits have bodies'.
Why no proof? Because there is no such thing…simple as…
Not none Person, Disciple, Apostle, Saint nor Prophet says so. And also, neither Jesus nor God himself…
Irene…irene,….'God gives each a body'….please,…read the context…FLESH….more definitively, Matter, material elements.
Irene, this is the glory created by God from invisible Spirit,…to a body of visible matter, visisble material, earth, sun, moon, stars, man, fish, birds, animals, all material matter…
There is no mention of 'Spirits'…why not say 'Angels' then?
Answer is simple…
JAyou can not even answer two little question;
you also can not understand Paul why???
because you are led by your carnal you,
you have no connection to spiritual understanding,1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.
WHAT IS FLESH ? IT IS THE OUTER LAYER WHO CONTAINS OUR SOUL, AND SO PAUL MAKE AN ANALOGY THAT WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME ,EVEN DOE WE ALL HAVE A CONTAINING ENVELOPE ,AND SO IT IS IN HEAVEN,
Pierre
To all,
Do ghosts, aka phantasms, have spiritual bodies?
If so are their bodies like the bodies of other spiritual beings?
Mike, you said
Quote JA feels lead by the Spirit to ignore all the scriptures that teach about all things being created through Jesus. JA all things were created through the Word/Logos which became Jesus. All things were created through Him it say's. Then the Word/Logos was made flesh.
God does not have a body I agree. Scripture say's God is invisible and is Spirit and Spirit has no body as Jesus pointed out to the Disciples.
Angels could have form we don't know that. It would be different from us though. Not a body as we have.
Jesus is a new creation. We know little of His pre-existence. According to early writing's He was NOT a Angel but something else, an unique part of God. The Word/Logos.
But as we know very little about that, we do understand now. JA is telling the truth. Why did the early church repeat the importance of Jesus being 'in the flesh' ? I would think because there were people teaching that He was risen in spirit only…………no different from the psychic who claim to speak to the spirits of the dead. No, Jesus was more unique than that, He was raised in a spiritual body of flesh.
Are there any here who believe Jesus is now only Spirit ? No Jesus is still raised flesh, a new creation. And will return in like manner.
“Handle me, and see;” Jesus told them, “for a spirit hath not flesh and bones,
“I am He who lives, and was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore” (Revelation 1:18).1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2 John 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2 John 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2 John 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.So it seems anyone who says Jesus is not still in the flesh is a deceiver according to the Bible. JustAsking is not doing this. However I have heard people here say Jesus is Spirit only and is not in the flesh. Who was that ?
Shimmer,
Once again you speak well. But still require subjection to the refinement:Jesus was not 'part of God'… God is not a god of parts…i heard (?) some one say in the is forum (¿) that the Holy Spirit is a Part of God.
God is not composed of 'parts'. God 'IS' everything. His Spirit IS His. It is of Him, in Him and from him. The reason it is mentioned separtely is show ASPECTS of Him. His Spirit is an Aspect that Makes Him God…it is Holy, it is Truth, it is Righteous, it is Love, it is Power, it is Knowledge, it is Revelation, it is…goodness, and more…it is a Reminder, a Teacher, a Comforter, …more…
For if you make God into 'parts' then you begin to stray into Trinity territory…worse, if you say that Jesus is 'a part of God'….see: The Son, is a part of God, the Holy Spirit, is a part of God…and…the Father, is a part of God…..but they are not each God but God is the Godhead of the three…see how easy it is to think 'Trinity' if you allow the false thought to grow, the seed of falsitude….
Shimner, try thinking the longsighted thought, not the shortsighted ideas.Much of the rest of the post is irrelavant and off topic, in any case… This is how difused postings start,…the 'Tare' planted amongs the Wheat.
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 09 2010,20:28) Also why do you always find it so important to get personal. you do with Mike and now you are doing it with me. i will not again respond to your personal attack again….
Hi Irene,Report JA's posts if he get abusive with you. I, like you, will not respond to him and his insults. Especially when he talks a good game, but can't even bring himself to answer the simplest of questions.
If he ever decides to answer the questions that would have lead us to the bottom of this weeks ago, I might begin discoursing with him again.
Until then, he's not worth my time and effort.
It's like we showed him a scripture that says, “The sky is blue”. And he posts 1000 words filled with insults and ridicules about how the sky can't possibly be blue based on his own intelligence. And the whole time he will never even address the scripture that says, “The sky is blue”!
It's amusing and pathetic, saddening and maddening at the same time.
Hit the “report this post” button on any abusive posts of his from now on please.
peace and love,
mikeCan the thread owner bring the discussion back to the thread topic, 'Do Spirits have bodies'?
And by 'Spirits' we mean 'Angels', or else show what other Spirits there are first so as not to create confusion.
[Moderator]
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 09 2010,21:20) Mikeboll has seen the error in his thinking and is distancing himself from this post so as to sneak away claiming that JA isn't being nice to him…
No JA, the truth is that Mikeboll has no more time for your unscriptural nonsense and hate. When you are ready to get off the puppy porch and come hang with the big dogs, answer my two little questions so we can move on.As I remember, one is a True/False, and the other is a Yes/No. It shouldn't be that tough to answer questions JA. So why don't you ever?
mike
To All,
Please show where Scriptures says that Angelic Spirits have bodies?
(p.s. Celestial bodies are not 'Angels', else Paul would have said 'Angels'.
Celestial bodies are Sun, Moon, Stars, …comets, meteors, Galaxies, Cosmos, etc….just as Paul states)But if you insist, then show a qualifier also….show another place where Spirit has a body.
I notice that the originator of the falsehood concerning 'spirits with bodies' is strangely absent from professing and hammering (Hey, who remembers 'Mike Hammer'?) home his claim…doesn't he nearly always boast how he is going to show JustAskin the power of his debating skills. Anyone know what a 'damp squib' is, or 'who' it is here…? Clue: MB…
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 10 2010,10:00) Quote (Baker @ Dec. 09 2010,20:28) Also why do you always find it so important to get personal. you do with Mike and now you are doing it with me. i will not again respond to your personal attack again….
Hi Irene,Report JA's posts if he get abusive with you. I, like you, will not respond to him and his insults. Especially when he talks a good game, but can't even bring himself to answer the simplest of questions.
If he ever decides to answer the questions that would have lead us to the bottom of this weeks ago, I might begin discoursing with him again.
Until then, he's not worth my time and effort.
It's like we showed him a scripture that says, “The sky is blue”. And he posts 1000 words filled with insults and ridicules about how the sky can't possibly be blue based on his own intelligence. And the whole time he will never even address the scripture that says, “The sky is blue”!
It's amusing and pathetic, saddening and maddening at the same time.
Hit the “report this post” button on any abusive posts of his from now on please.
peace and love,
mike
Mike! I gave it a good try, and now I am done with JA. Whether I ever post to Him in other subjects, time will tell. So far He has not said anything like what He said to you. I just don't understand why He first had a tile and then it was taken of again. He did deserve a tile since He was really nasty with you…..I find it so amazing in spite what Webster Dictionary says about celestial, He still has to ask what they are…sad…..Take care…
Peace and Love IreneMike, Irene, Terra,
You are all in great error. And yet your error are all the same …being led by each other.
You all choose to see through fleshly eyes. Not one of you can bring a single scripture saying that spirits have bodies…yet you all delude yourselves into believing that flesh …not spirit…becomes Spirit ..is proof that Spirit has body…how perverse…
A body attaining Spirit is nothing to do with Spirit having a body…
See, you do the complete opposite of what is being discussed.
The topic is 'do spirits….Angels….have bodies', not 'Do bodies become Spirit'.
The topic moved to this inverted point because Mikeboll ran out of impossible swashbucklings trying to say that Angels have bodies that take up space but then can't explain how a man, a human being, can have a thousand fallen Angels inside him…he says 'legion' could mean…a few…when it is an every day common knowledge what 'Legion' means…more over…just to compound his desperate error, could he not just have looked up in a dictionary what 'legion' meant…no, because that would mean he had to admit defeat…and Mike can't do that…
Mike requires 'proof' of everything and spends hours and hours pouring out 'definitions' of words …yet, can't look up 'Legion'.
How many hundreds, making thousands of demons, were in the mad man…and yet he still looks like an ordinary, if only a little stronger and angrier, human being….No, Mike can't find anything…so he goes in the offensive…he finds the ONLY verse in the whole Scriptures that even vaguely mentions 'spirit' and 'body' in the same sentence…and that is now his clincher, 'God verse'…and, like Balaam's donkey, he's going to beat it to death…but …..
Then he realises he is wrong…so he beats a hasty, but 'silent' retreat…shouting over his shoulder, 'oh er…i'm not running away…i'm just not talking with JA because he, umm, er, upset me….see you in another thread…i'm, erm, leaving this to you guys if you wanna stay debating with his abuse…i'm outa here'Mike….who ya taking for a ride?
JA
why you hiding? answer…………………………………………………………..
you can not even answer two little question;
you also can not understand Paul why???
because you are led by your carnal you,
you have no connection to spiritual understanding,1Cr 15:39 All flesh [is] not the same flesh: but [there is] one [kind of] flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, [and] another of birds.
WHAT IS FLESH ? IT IS THE OUTER LAYER WHO CONTAINS OUR SOUL, AND SO PAUL MAKE AN ANALOGY THAT WE ARE NOT ALL THE SAME ,EVEN DOE WE ALL HAVE A CONTAINING ENVELOPE ,AND SO IT IS IN HEAVEN,
Pierre
Irene,
What does Websters dictionary say about 'Celestial'?
Please quote it here…
Is that what your whole belief hangs on, Webster's definition of 'Celestial'.
Irene, i take it you investigated other definitions of 'Celestial'?
Irene, what is a Celestial Body?
Irene, if you are so adamant that 'Celestial' means …whatever Webster says, then tell me of Celestial bodies…and, at the risk of going through '1Corry15' again, why doesn't Paul mention, by your reckoning, a single 'Celestial body', but by my reckoning, he mentions 'Sun, Moon and Stars' as 'Celestial bodies'….
I open the door for you to 'prove' your point instead of just quoting Scripture verses without explanation.
Terra, Satan has seized you. May God rebuke you. There is not even any sense in what you post.
Why am i hiding? Where have you been to say i'm hiding…and what questions are you on about?
Do you think it might make some sense to actually post the questions..
And what has bodies being man and animal, bird and fish got to do with 'Do Angels have Bodies'?
I think t8's forum has run it's course, it has become deseased with demonic posters…
I think Shimmer was right…
From Dictionary.com:
ce·les·tial /səˈlɛstʃəl/ Show Spelled
[suh-les-chuhl]–adjective
1. pertaining to the sky or visible heaven.
2. pertaining to the spiritual or invisible heaven; heavenly; divine: celestial bliss.JA, I and two separate scholars that Shimmer posted have explained to you that Paul was using celestial things they COULD see as proof that the bodies of things in heaven are different than the bodies of things on earth.
But the whole passage was an answer to the question, “What kind of bodies will we be raised in?” So you know his answer is about PERSON'S bodies, right?
This is why it's annoying to deal with you JA. We could get to addressing your point that it doesn't necessarily have to mean “angel's bodies” IF you would at least agree that Paul's whole message was to answer what kind of bodies PERSONS will have in heaven.
Can you do that much? You are the one who is always preaching about defining your terms and understandings of a word when debating. I've been trying to get to some common ground with you so we can move forward from there, but you'll have nothing to do with my questions or points.
Is that what you think “discussion” means? I ask points, and you completely ignore them?
Answer my ONE simple question above, and then feel free to ask one of your own to me. I will CERTAINLY answer it the first time it's asked. But I won't read through pages of crap just to find that one question. So be brief and concise, okay?
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 10 2010,18:15) Terra, Satan has seized you. May God rebuke you. There is not even any sense in what you post. Why am i hiding? Where have you been to say i'm hiding…and what questions are you on about?
Do you think it might make some sense to actually post the questions..
And what has bodies being man and animal, bird and fish got to do with 'Do Angels have Bodies'?
I think t8's forum has run it's course, it has become deseased with demonic posters…
I think Shimmer was right…
JAI can see that you have come to the conclusion of your poor knowledge in scriptures and so have nothing to say that can produce any fruits that will help anyone here on this site,right??
I have to agree with that ,you are starting not responding to small question ,this is the sign that you are disconnected,
well so long friend,
Pierre
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