Do spirits have bodies?

[Ed J]

Quote (Pastry @ Mar. 15 2012,04:49)

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,02:05) Hi Toby, My brother calls it “brain bondo”, your brain filling in the gaps to make something make sense. Since Mike believes Jesus was a per-existent Angelic being of some kind, he would therefore have to of had some substance. But if he was YHVH before his birth, no substance would be required. (Link to Poll) Ed J Hbr 2:16   For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Hi Georg, EXCELLENT POINT! (Heb 2:14)

“Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood,
he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death
he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;”

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

[toby]

Hi Kerwin,

Quote

it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body

You are perfectly correct, here. It's so simple to understand.

Mikeboll thinks that a “Spiritual Body” is “a Body belonging to a Spirit”.
But you will never hear him say that a “Natural Body” is “a Body belonging to a Nature”.

I especially like the part he says about the part about Lot's Wife turning into a pillar of salt:

Quote

Toby, what happened to THE BODY of Lot's wife when “she” was turned to salt? Don't you agree that her body, as a part of “she”, was also turned to salt right along with the rest of her?    Is there reason to think that God first separated her from her body, and the body remained while the rest of her turned to salt?

Only asking for an opinion, but Kerwin, can you interpret this for me as it seem mikeboll won't – and it is his words – or what do you think of it? (Remember that Lot's Wife is a Body with a Spirit in it – Did the Spirit get turned into a Pillar of Salt?)

[mikeboll64]

Toby,

I've answered your question.  Here it is again:

Whatever happened to Jesus himself during the process of ceasing as a spirit being in heaven and becoming a flesh being on earth, happened to ALL OF JESUS, – spiritual body included.

I saw that you cannot intelligently address my drop of water analogy.  Until you are able to understand that if God turned a drop of water into a human being, the WHOLE, ENTIRE drop of water would be included, then you you will not understand what I'm telling you about Jesus.

But my job is only to lead you to the water.  Whether or not you drink is up to you.

I've done my job.  And I've answered your “last question before I go” to the best of my ability.  If a way to dumb it down further for you comes to me, I will share it with you.

Until that time, go talk to someone else for a while, okay?  

I'll leave you with this verse that I just read today:

Matthew 28
2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

The above describes the BODY of a particular angel.  A BODY that the angel SAT DOWN on a rock with.  And it doesn't seem from the description that this angel “manifested” a flesh body to be on earth.

[GeneBalthrop]

Mike………..We do not want to drink your tainted Water, not now or ever, that would be suicide for anyone that understand the truth about this subject. And i don't think many others are drinking it either. Mike face it you have absolutely no idea what a Spirit (IS) , on the one hand you believe it is a “BODY” but not in ONE PLACE in scriptures does it says, Spirit is a BODY. That is your confusion and dilemma Mike.

So i would no talk down to anyone here Mike your have not produced ONE Shred of Proof to back you false claims of a “SPIRIT BODY” of any kind.

peace and love………………………………………………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 14 2012,16:43)

Mike face it you have absolutely no idea what a Spirit (IS)  , on the one hand you believe it is a “BODY”………….

  And there goes Gene again, claiming that I think a spirit IS a body – after I've told him time and time again that no one here has ever made that claim!  

Gene, did you see where I just compared Toby to you in my post last night for this very reason?  And then, not even 12 hours later, you make the same exact claim I poked fun at last night.  

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 14 2012,16:43)

So i would no talk down to anyone here Mike your have not produced ONE Shred of Proof to back you false claims of a “SPIRIT BODY” of any kind.

And once again, Gene forgets that we are on the same side of this discussion.  Gene believes that angels have bodies, and so do I.  His friend Toby, who he constantly tries to support, is the one who disagrees with Gene.

This just goes to show that Gene is only interested in being AGAINST me, and not truly interested in the actual discussion.

Gene, do angels have bodies?  If you say “Yes”, then you and I are in agreement, and Toby disagrees with US – not just me.  

And therefore, if MY water is tainted, so is yours.

[mikeboll64]

Gene,

Why don't you go visit Asana's “Do spirits have bodies” thread. Try to convince him of the ONE meaning of “spirit” in the scriptures for a while.

[terraricca]

gene ,toby,

give me a break ,i am bend in two rolling on the ground ,crying of luffing

[toby]

Hi Mikeboll,

You said:

Quote

Whatever happened to Jesus himself during the process of ceasing as a spirit being in heaven and becoming a flesh being on earth, happened to ALL OF JESUS, – spiritual body included.

Can you show me the Scripture that says this?

You said:

Quote

I saw that you cannot intelligently address my drop of water analogy.  Until you are able to understand that if God turned a drop of water into a human being, the WHOLE, ENTIRE drop of water would be included, then you you will not understand what I'm telling you about Jesus.

On the contrary, it is you that cannot construct a viable analogy.

A Human Being comprises Body and Spirit (together making a Soul)

For your “drop of water” to work you would have to explain the equivalence of the “Spirit” In the “Water Droplet”.

Your inability to explain what you mean by “the Being of Jesus” (Spiritual Body AND Spirit) being changed to Flesh is inconsistent with everything written in Scriptures concerning the coming of Jesus as Man.

Your analogy and explanation is incomplete, in fact, fanciful at the least.

It is amazing that that such a simple concept is oblivious to you:
1) Jesus is a Spirit in Heaven
2) God prepares a Body of Flesh as the Seed (The Egg) in the body of Mary
3) God puts the Spirit of Jesus into the egg body (Fertilising the egg) in Mary through the Power of the Holy Spirit
4) Jesus is born as a baby Human Being into the corruptible sinful flesh body that is the same as all others of Mankind (thus fulfilling the prophecies  as EDJ and George just pointed out – thanks guys – well timed!)

p.s. Those who do not believe in Jesus' Pre-existence can start at point (2).

[toby]

Hi Terraricca,

You said:

Quote

gene ,toby, give me a break ,i am bend in two rolling on the ground ,crying of luffing

Yes, I agree. I wonder what will be in the next comedy sketch to be presented.

All this and I only asked a simple question – Mikeboll's response is that God turned a droplet of water into a human being.

[toby]

Hi Mike,

You said:

Quote

Matthew 28 2 There was a violent earthquake, for an angel of the Lord came down from heaven and, going to the tomb, rolled back the stone and sat on it. 3 His appearance was like lightning, and his clothes were white as snow. 4 The guards were so afraid of him that they shook and became like dead men.

Since an Angel (Spirit) is an “Essence” with Power and intelligence, it can manifest any type of temporary Body in the Physical world.

Why are you amazed at this? Did not an Angel appear as a Flame of fire in the Bush before Moses?

In fact, does this not say that against you as you say that Angels have Wings?

See, Mikeboll, every false step you make, you fall over which means that you are not walking in the way of TRUTH.

So far, you cannot even get past my first question of what Jesus did with his 'Spiritual Body' when God put his 'Spirit' into the body of the egg of Mary.

Now, if there was no Body of the Spirit then you wouldn't need to falsify your completely muddled and incomprehensible response!

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Mar. 14 2012,18:14)

On the contrary, it is you that cannot construct a viable analogy. A Human Being comprises Body and Spirit (together making a Soul) For your “drop of water” to work you would have to explain the equivalence of the “Spirit” In the “Water Droplet”.

Hey Toby,

Just exactly as I was reading your post, a more dumbed down analogy came to me.  And as I promised, I will now share it with you.  Forget the drop of water and swap it to an automobile.

In the analogy, the engine is the “spirit” of the car, and the body is the body.  (Notice that the BODY of a car is the outer skin.  The undercarriage, struts, tires, engine, exhaust, etc. are NOT considered the car's “BODY”.  Now I can see how you want to include our bones, guts, and brains as part of our “body”, but I've told you from the beginning that I'm definining “body” as the “outer parameter” of a thing.  There was never a need for you to make your “but that is just the skin” point in the first place, because you've known all along what I was calling the “body”.  So remember what comprises the BODY of a car the next time you have trouble remembering what it is we're discussing, okay?)

Anyway, the engine is the spirit, and the body is the body.

Now, if God turned a car into a human being, would you assume that God first removed its body, and turned what was left into a human being.  Would you just assume that despite the fact there were no words to say it?

OR……………………………………

Would you assume, like a normal person, that if God turned a car into a human being, He turned THE WHOLE CAR into the human being – BODY and all?

Please answer HONESTLY, and tell me which one you would automatically assume from the statement.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Mar. 14 2012,19:03)

Since an Angel (Spirit) is an “Essence” with Power and intelligence, it can manifest any type of temporary Body in the Physical world.

How about you show me the scripture that teaches us this BEFORE you accuse me of making “false steps”?  

You already know my answer anyway.  Did Balaam's angel manifest one body that the donkey could see, and ANOTHER body that Balaam could also see?

Don't bother answering.  I've already read your nonsense about Balaam being blinded by pride or whatever.

[terraricca]

Quote (toby @ Mar. 15 2012,18:17)

Hi Terraricca, You said: Quote gene ,toby, give me a break ,i am bend in two rolling on the ground ,crying of luffing Yes, I agree. I wonder what will be in the next comedy sketch to be presented. All this and I only asked a simple question – Mikeboll's response is that God turned a droplet of water into a human being.

you guys have no clue of what going on;

you have used up all the lies possible to make us look like we do not know what the truth is ,

you know the other day i google the human DNA and saw that marvelous structure it is not perceived with the naked eyes and so I start thinking that I have all my inventory in this microscopic thing what encompass all of me all of it in a single little body called DNA and I (we) are made with millions if not billions of those ,

then I start thinking what happen to those things wen I die

well that s apparently depend by or if you are eaten up or just buried ,

they suppose to stick around with the body of flesh because that is what the body is made of,

but i was now thinking what about that part that God provided ,the soul,because the natural body =DNA is just the flesh but what about the soul i said ?

were is it ,were am I ?? trapped in all those DNA cells

next question wen is the soul given and wen does it leaves the body???

am i one part or am i two parts

any answers ;gene ,toby???

[toby]

Mikeboll,

You said:

Quote

Hey Toby, Just exactly as I was reading your post, a more dumbed down analogy came to me.  And as I promised, I will now share it with you.

and

Quote

Forget the drop of water…

Wise move – it was a rather “Wet” analogy!

You said:

Quote

In the analogy, the engine is the “spirit” of the car, and the body is the body.  (Notice that the BODY of a car is the outer skin.  The undercarriage, struts, tires, engine, exhaust, etc. are NOT considered the car's “BODY”.

Quote

Now I can see how you want to include our bones, guts, and brains as part of our “body”,

Got that right – the 'Body' is “Flesh, Blood and Bone” – not just the Skin!

Quote

but I've told you from the beginning that I'm definining sic “body” as the “outer parameter” of a thing.  There was never a need for you to make your “but that is just the skin” point in the first place, because you've known all along what I was calling the “body”.

Mikeboll, here you go redefining words and terms again…

Quote

So remember what comprises the BODY of a car the next time you have trouble remembering what it is we're discussing, okay?)

No… To adopt incorrect and malformed ideology is leads to “Murdering Truth”.  Do you argue against False Doctrine? well I just argued against Kerwin as regards him trying to Manifest the word “Ghost” into common usage in this forum?

Quote

Anyway, the engine is the spirit, and the body is the body.

The Engine cannot be the 'Spirit'. The Spirit has Intelligence. The Spirit would be a 'Person' or a Computerised Control system.
Also, your analogy is Flawed. The 'Shell' of the Car plus an Engine – Is this a new Concept Car that hasn't yet hit the market?

Quote

Now, if God turned a car into a human being, would you assume that God first removed its body, and turned what was left into a human being.  Would you just assume that despite the fact there were no words to say it?

Mikeboll, Where is the intelligence and animating force in your “Human Being”?
Lets put this better: The Engine is like the Heart. The heart may be beating, the engine may be running, but the Body is not animated, the Car is not moving:
– Where it's Wheels that are 'not part of the Body'?
– Who is Steering/Controlling the vehicle (The intelligence? certainly not 'the Engine', eh!)

Quote

OR…………………………………… Would you assume, like a normal person, that if God turned a car into a human being, He turned THE WHOLE CAR into the human being – BODY and all?

Mikeboll, you keep saying “The Body” and then add “and all”.
What exactly is this “and All”? Are you trying to avoid using the word “Spirit”?

(A Spirit in the Body of a Spirit? So what is the Spirit in the Body of a Spirit Body?

Remember that you already said that the Body of a Spirit is made of Spirit)

Quote

Please answer HONESTLY, and tell me which one you would automatically assume from the statement.

Neither of them – because your premises are flawed.

How did I do?

[toby]

Hi Mikeboll,

By the way, I know you said not to reply but I thought I'd just like to run this by you…for reference only, of course!

You said

Quote

Quote (toby @ Mar. 14 2012,19:03) Since an Angel (Spirit) is an “Essence” with Power and intelligence, it can manifest any type of temporary Body in the Physical world. How about you show me the scripture that teaches us this BEFORE you accuse me of making “false steps”?

Do you not know that the (Holy) Spirit is the (Divine) Essence of God Almighty?

[Ed J]

Quote (toby @ Mar. 15 2012,14:07)

Do you not know that the (Holy) Spirit is the (Divine) Essence of God Almighty?

Hi Toby,

I would hope that most would know that, but perhaps
there are still many that have not learned that yet?

Your brother
in Christ, Jesus.
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
holycitybiblecode.org

[terraricca]

Quote (Ed J @ Mar. 15 2012,21:57)

Quote (toby @ Mar. 15 2012,14:07) Do you not know that the (Holy) Spirit is the (Divine) Essence of God Almighty? Hi Toby, I would hope that most would know that, but perhaps there are still many that have not learned that yet? Your brother in Christ, Jesus. Ed J (Joshua 22:34) holycitybiblecode.org

Edj ,Toby

Holy spirit = divine essence yeah edj says it Is God ,you seem to agree on confusion ,

So God send his divine essence to the prophets,and Christ blows on his apostles as well The Divine Essence ,

Well,well,you guy s have for sure a productive imagination

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Mar. 15 2012,09:51)

Gene, do angels have bodies?  If you say “Yes”, then you and I are in agreement, and Toby disagrees with US – not just me.

Mike……….This is not what you have said You (HAVE) said Angels (ARE) SPIRITS, themselves , While i have argued they have Bodies and God creates their Spirits and puts them (IN) those Bodies. While You say the Angels themselves (ARE) Spirits. Now you are saying Angels are Spirit that have bodies, that is a change from your original stance.

You used that wording of scripture that say GOD makes His angels Spirits and sends them out to minister, to support you assumption that angels themselves are spirits “BEINGS”, and nothing more, now you say they have bodies with spirits. So God does not make his angels (SPIRIT “BEINGS”) but Makes the Spirits that are (IN) those ” Beings” he created with bodies.

If you agree with that assessment then you must concede that there exists no such thing as a “SPIRIT BODY” of any type or kind. And that would mean that there is only ONE Meaning of the word Spirit .

Spirit is (INTELLECT)that is (IN) a “BEING” giving (IT) “a Body” its cognate thought, nothing more and nothing Less. Nothing complicated about it and once you come to understand that then you can being to understand what Jesus meant when he said the “FATHER IS “IN” ME, it all fits by simply understanding what spirit really is. IMO

God the eternal God was truly (N) Jesus just as Jesus said he was See who simply and clear Jesus word become once you start to understand what Spirit really (IS).

peace and love……………………………………….gene

[toby]

Hi Terraricca,

John 20:22…

[toby]

Thanks EDJ.

[Author]

Posts