Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,13:51)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,22:19)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,07:26)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,19:08)

Pierre,

Here is what the Scripture reads.

Matthew 14:26

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out [a]in fear.

Footnotes:

Matthew 14:26 Lit from

The acted as if they thought Jesus was an actual ghost by crying out from fear.

Kerwin

Mk 6:48 He saw the disciples straining at the oars, because the wind was against them. About the fourth watch of the night he went out to them, walking on the lake. He was about to pass by them,
Mk 6:49 but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he was a ghost. They cried out,
Mk 6:50 because they all saw him and were terrified.
Immediately he spoke to them and said, “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”
Mk 6:51 Then he climbed into the boat with them, and the wind died down. They were completely amazed,
Mk 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.

read verse 52

Pierre,

It is true that they had not gained any insight from the incident of the loves and the fishes because their heart was hardened but that does not mean they did not believe in free roaming ghosts.

It does mean that they did not initially consider that since he was given the miracles power to increase the loaves and fishes in number that walking on water was well within his means.

Kerwin

What you think is the hardening of their heart mean ?

Pierre,

There hearts were hardened through unbelief.

The demonstrated the same unbelief in what he was when they thought he was a ghost after his resurrection.

Luke 24
New American Standard Bible (NASB)

36 While they were telling these things, He Himself stood in their midst and *said to them, “Peace be to you.” 37 But they were startled and frightened and thought that they were seeing a spirit. 38 And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your [n]hearts? 39 See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” 40 And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. 41 While they still [o]could not believe it because of their joy and amazement, He said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?” 42 They gave Him a piece of a broiled fish; 43 and He took it and ate it before them.

n] Luke 24:38 Lit heart
o] Luke 24:41 Lit were disbelieving

March 11, 2012 at 8:59 pm#284275

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2012,03:41)

Kerwin………….You can not take a Parable as a Literal thing , it is given to illustrate a Principle it is an allegorical picture of judgments . And that analogy is not a analogy about the dead still living when they die. The example is about how some have a easy life with riches and do not suffer in this life as others suffer, but they in the future will recieve there share of hardship and suffering. Jesus was showing what was in store for certain People in the future, he was not talking about Life after death (IN) the Grave. And also one person can't by being that state worn another, and there is a dividing line between those who have suffered and those who have not .

I have posted you many scriptures that show what happens when a man dies , and that there is NO Works , NO Thought, NO Praise , and Pierre posted all those scripture that show that also.

Kerwin sound things say we consist of just two thing, A BODY, A SPIRIT and that combined equals a “LIVING SOUL” Nothing more or nothing less. When these two components are (SEPARATED) there is no longer a “LIVING SOUL” Left. Just a “DEAD” one, that simple Brother. IMO

If what you say is true then there would be no need of a “RESURRECTION” of a BODY at all, and Jesus' resurrection with a BODY did not count for anything becasue he “REALLY” was not “TRULY” DEAD as he said he was.

Kerwin This “FLESH” must Put on immortality in order fro us to eternal exist. “IT” (this Flesh) is sown in weakness , “IT” (this flesh) is raised in Power and Glory, “IT” is sown a “natural BODY” “IT” (this Flesh”) is raised a Spiritual BODY. Kerwin thaTit is all the same “IT” or BODY that is raised. Why? because a LIVING SOUL can not exist without a BODY with Spirit added Back into “IT” that “BODY”>

peace and love to you and yorus…………………………………………………..gene

Gene,

What you just said to Kerwin is exactly right. However, it is just a simple matter that of outlining the resurrection. Please take heart as regards this aspect and that the paragraph I outlined and asked about has not attracted any negative comments. I am sure that if you had said something wrong in that paragraph it would have been pointed out.

However, this thread is not regarding 'Ghosts' and 'Spectres' and 'Phatasms'.

Please, as much as you may want to correct, it is a distraction from the thread topic. If people want to discuss these (non-issues) then perhaps start a thread or join a thread that is discussing such matters.

The topic in this thread is 'Do Spirits such as God, Jesus and Angels In Heaven have bodies?'

March 11, 2012 at 9:11 pm#284278

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2012,04:19)

Toby………What Mike is trying to Do is change the topic, its not about Angels it is about “Do SPIRITS HAVE BODIES”

He thinks if he can divide us on another issue then he win his Point, don't fall for it , the issue on this post is clear and we Both are agreement on it. If he wants to discus Angels he need to start a Post on them. Lets keep him on focus Brother.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………..gene

Gene,

'Angels', yes, I had noticed.

However, since Angels are 'Messenging Spirits', it isn't such a change for me, I think he did it for you, it would matter to me if he was to direct it at me because then he would be isolating 'Messenging Spirits' of God (Angels) from Spirits that are 'Not Messenging' Spirits such as Seraphims (and maybe Cherubims – not sure here).

But having said that – how many times have I written 'The thread questions is…' and yet Mikeboll has demanded by emphasis that the question is about 'Spirits such as Angels, Jesus and God' In Heaven. Yet he is the one who cannot confine his posts to that which he himself stipulated.

But, yes, please point out any change to the topic and only direct your responses to the thread topic question.

Thanks Gene.

March 12, 2012 at 2:54 am#284332

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2012,04:31)

Gene wrote:

Toby………What Mike is trying to Do is change the topic, its not about Angels it is about “Do SPIRITS HAVE BODIES”

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………..gene

what now angels are no longer spirits ? what are they then

Terricca…………..I am “JUST” a “LITTLE” Lower the a ANGEL, becasue my body can die, their “BODY” Can't. Notice the word “LITTLE LOWER”.

Psa 8:5 . Heb 2:7, Heb2.9….> read it for yourself, i am tired of posting for you and your not getting what scripture says.

Man is JUST A LITTLE LOWER THEN ANGELS AT THIS present TIME, not becasue Angels are Spirit beings and therefore do not have Bodies, that would be a HUGH difference not just a “LITTLE” Difference. IMO

There is no creation of God that does not have a “BODY” of ITS OWN, Just as it says
and he (God) gives it (his created things) a “BODY” just as he pleases. Nothing created does not have a BODY and it is NOT A SPIRIT BODY, There exist no such thing as a SPIRIT BODY, not one scripture in all the bible say there exists a SPIRIT BODY not one.

No matter what you people say you can not find one scripture with the word “SPIRIT BODY” in it. Ni not even ONE.

peace and love……………………………………………gene

March 12, 2012 at 3:29 am#284337

Participant

Quote (toby @ Mar. 12 2012,02:59)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2012,03:41)

I have posted you many scriptures that show what happens when a man dies , and that there is NO Works , NO Thought, NO Praise , and Pierre posted all those scripture that show that also.

peace and love to you and yorus…………………………………………………..gene

Gene,

However, this thread is not regarding 'Ghosts' and 'Spectres' and 'Phatasms'.

The topic in this thread is 'Do Spirits such as God, Jesus and Angels In Heaven have bodies?'

Toby,

The topic of the thread is “do spirits have bodies”

Ghosts are spirits.

Therefore this thread is about ghosts or any other spirit you care to name.

My question is “do ghosts have bodies?”

March 12, 2012 at 3:45 am#284341

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2012,20:54)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2012,04:31)

Gene wrote:

Toby………What Mike is trying to Do is change the topic, its not about Angels it is about “Do SPIRITS HAVE BODIES”

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………..gene

what now angels are no longer spirits ? what are they then

Terricca…………..I am “JUST” a “LITTLE” Lower the a ANGEL, becasue my body can die, their “BODY” Can't. Notice the word “LITTLE LOWER”.

Psa 8:5 . Heb 2:7, Heb2.9….> read it for yourself, i am tired of posting for you and your not getting what scripture says.

No matter what you people say you can not find one scripture with the word “SPIRIT BODY” in it. Ni not even ONE.

peace and love……………………………………………gene

Gene

I thank for you respond it is intelligently presented I understand it perfectly ,

so I will respond in a similar way;

Quote

Terricca…………..I am “JUST” a “LITTLE” Lower the a ANGEL, becasue my body can die, their “BODY” Can't. Notice the word “LITTLE LOWER”.

I am familiar with the expression about Christ HE MADE HIM A LITTLE LOWER THAN ANGELS;this we all know applies to Jesus Christ right ?? I do not think so, here is why i do not think so ;

Jesus was made a man latter but it was not the case with the WORD OF GOD ” when the prophecy was given Jesus was not in existence right ? yes, so it only could be talking about someone highly placed and that person or being will put in a lower position than the angels,right ?? yes it is,

so those word in scriptures ;Ps 8:5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
and crowned him with glory and honor.

and this is exactly what as happen wen Christ was born and wen the time came he presented himself to his father to accomplish all of what was said about the Christ and his work.

Quote

There is no creation of God that does not have a “BODY” of ITS OWN, Just as it says
and he (God) gives it (his created things) a “BODY” just as he pleases. Nothing created does not have a BODY and it is NOT A SPIRIT BODY, There exist no such thing as a SPIRIT BODY, not one scripture in all the bible say there exists a SPIRIT BODY not one.

body or form was the question;

Ge 1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

this verse show that God his not his creation ,he is separated by it,right ?? yes

Ex 31:3 and I have filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts—
Ex 35:31 and he has filled him with the Spirit of God, with skill, ability and knowledge in all kinds of crafts—

in this verse it talks about a different spirit a spirit that can be given and take away ,so it is not God but of God ,right ?? yes

Nu 11:29 But Moses replied, “Are you jealous for my sake? I wish that all the LORD'S people were prophets and that the LORD would put his Spirit on them!”

in this verse it shows Moses having Gods spirit but you should read the story of what had happen;

Nu 14:24 But because my servant Caleb has a different spirit and follows me wholeheartedly, I will bring him into the land he went to, and his descendants will inherit it.

the above scripture shows that their are more than one spirit that a man can have ,

this is the story of the twelfth spies ,

MK 16:12 After that, He appeared in a different form to two of them while they were walking along on their way to the country.
MK 16:13 They went away and reported it to the others, but they did not believe them either.

verse 12 show Jesus resurrected and present himself in a different form still human but not recognizable by those two disciples of his

there are other scriptures ,but we have gone in many direction but it will be the same out come what ever his created has a body or a form of a sort,no discussion about the composition we do not know this .

March 12, 2012 at 3:54 am#284343

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 11 2012,22:41)

Kerwin………….You can not take a Parable as a Literal thing , it is given to illustrate a Principle it is an allegorical picture of judgments . And that analogy is not a analogy about the dead still living when they die. The example is about how some have a easy life with riches and do not suffer in this life as others suffer, but they in the future will recieve there share of hardship and suffering. Jesus was showing what was in store for certain People in the future, he was not talking about Life after death (IN) the Grave. And also one person can't by being that state warn another, and there is a dividing line between those who have suffered and those who have not .

I have posted you many scriptures that show what happens when a man dies , and that there is NO Works , NO Thought, NO Praise , and Pierre posted all those scripture that show that also.

Kerwin This “FLESH” must Put on immortality in order fro us to eternal exist. “IT” (this Flesh) is sown in weakness , “IT” (this flesh) is raised in Power and Glory, “IT” is sown a “natural BODY” “IT” (this Flesh”) is raised a Spiritual BODY. Kerwin that “IT” is all the same “IT” a “BODY” that is raised. Why? because a LIVING SOUL can not exist without a BODY with Spirit added Back into “IT” that “BODY”>

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene

Gene,

I have observed I am dealing with one of your points of irrationality on this issue because you have been indoctrinated by this skeptical age. Never the less I am hoping that you will deny yourself and take a look at scriptures guided by the Spirit.

The only definition for Sheol in Merriam-Webster is:

“: the abode of the dead in early Hebrew thought”

Proverbs 15:11

New American Standard Bible (NASB)

11 [a]Sheol and Abaddon lie open before the LORD,
How much more the hearts of [c]men!
Footnotes:

a] Proverbs 15:11 I.e. the nether world
b] Proverbs 15:11 I.e. place of destruction
c] Proverbs 15:11 Lit sons of Adam

What nether world and what place of destruction lie open before the Lord?

So who is speaking the truth this age of skepticism or the book of Proverbs?

Jesus does not endorse false teaching; even in a parable.

March 12, 2012 at 3:49 pm#284398

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Kerwin………..Even if you use the dictionary you chose and get the meaning the abode of the DEAD, from it, DEAD is DEAD, DEAD is NOT LIVING. Go and look at a Dead Man is he still living, NO, why becasue he (IS) DEAD, Does he talk, walk. think, No he does not. I have posted many scriptures that speak of the state of the DEAD an None of them speak of a dead man still being alive. Why does even the bible use the word Dead if that was not the case Kerwin. Kerwin it has nothing to do with me being a Skeptic or not,though it is true I am a Skeptic of what i hear especially in these days of thousands of false teachings going around in religions.

It all has to do with what scriptures say, Tell me this Kerwin why did Jesus say I was “DEAD” and now I am “ALIVE” forever What would be his point if he truly was not dead and “NOW” Alive for evermore. This false belief that a person is still living when he is dead causes People to think they are eternal NOW and Have already eternal life , so why look for a resurrection FROM the DEAD it that were the Case, you can hope for eternal life it you think you already have it. This whole neither world thing is a teaching of Pagans like the ancient Egyptians who believe when you die you go into the “Neither world” where you need a boat to take you on your journey to eternal life, Many pagan peoples believed that when a person dies they Just go into another state of existence . But that is not the teaching of the true word of God.

Isa 38:18……> For the “GRAVE “cannot” praise you, death “cannot” celebrate you: they that go down into the pit “cannot” hope for thy truth.

Pas 89:48……> What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his “SOUL” from the hand of the grave> Selah

Ecc 9:10…….> What ever thy hand finds to do, do if with they might; for there is no “WORK”, no “DEVICE”, nor “KNOWLEDGE”, nor “WISDOM”, in the GRAVE, where you go.

Kerwin i am not being a septic here about what scripture says , but i am a skeptic about you claim that a person is still alive after he dies as a “Living Soul”.

Truly believe you are way off on those one brother. I could give you more but these should suffice.

peace and love to you and yours Kerwin…………………………………….gene

March 12, 2012 at 4:34 pm#284402

GeneBalthrop

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2012,14:45)

Gene

I thank for you respond it is intelligently presented I understand it perfectly ,

so I will respond in a similar way;

Quote

Terricca…………..I am “JUST” a “LITTLE” Lower the a ANGEL, becasue my body can die, their “BODY” Can't. Notice the word “LITTLE LOWER”.

I am familiar with the expression about Christ HE MADE HIM A LITTLE LOWER THAN ANGELS;this we all know applies to Jesus Christ right ?? I do not think so, here is why i do not think so ;

so those word in scriptures ;Ps 8:5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
and crowned him with glory and honor.

Terricca…………The scriptures about being a LITTLE Lower then the Angels was talking about MANKIND in a general sense, Not about Jesus alone or separately as a MAN. Lets read it together again, without adding any of our own ideas to it.

Psa 8:3……..> When i consider thy heavens the works of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou has ordained; 4 what is man, that you are mindful of him? and the son of man, that you visits him? now notice this carefully Pierre,
For you have made Him (man) a “LITTLE” LOWER than the angels, and has crowned him (MAN) with glory and honor.

Pierre this is all talking about Mankind it is not specific to Jesus alone. Don't you notice you have to “CREATE” something mysteriously extra to make it fit your view that it is Just talking about Jesus alone.

Heb 2:6-……> But one in a certain place testified, saying , What is “MAN” , that you are mindful of him? or the son of “MAN” that you visit him. v 7…..> You made him (MANKIND) a LITTLE LOWER than the angels; you crowned him (Mankind) with glory and honor, and did set him (MANKIND) over the works of “THY” hands: V8….> You have put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put (ALL) in subjection under him (mankind) , he (GOD) left “NOTHING” that is not put under him.

Now notice carefully Pierre at the rest of this….

But “NOW” we see “NOT YET”, all things put under him (mankind). But we see (for NOW PIERRE is) Jesus, who was Made (LIKE US) A “LITTLE LOWER” than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honor; That he by the grace of God should taste death for “EVERY” Man.

peace and love to you and yours Pierre…………………………gene

March 12, 2012 at 6:03 pm#284407

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 13 2012,10:34)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 12 2012,14:45)

Gene

I thank for you respond it is intelligently presented I understand it perfectly ,

so I will respond in a similar way;

Quote

Terricca…………..I am “JUST” a “LITTLE” Lower the a ANGEL, becasue my body can die, their “BODY” Can't. Notice the word “LITTLE LOWER”.

I am familiar with the expression about Christ HE MADE HIM A LITTLE LOWER THAN ANGELS;this we all know applies to Jesus Christ right ?? I do not think so, here is why i do not think so ;

so those word in scriptures ;Ps 8:5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings
and crowned him with glory and honor.

Now notice carefully Pierre at the rest of this….

peace and love to you and yours Pierre…………………………gene

gene

Quote

what make you so sure that your interpretation is the right conclusion

now i will tell you this ;all scriptures are for Christ the son of God ,THE WORD OF GOD that became flesh and dwell among us.

no man no humanity exist sins Adam sin we human start to live again wen he died on the stake,

and so remove the curse of sin,MAN (US) HAVE NO CREDIT NO GLORY ONLY SHAME ,BUT IN CHRIST WE GAIN GLORY AND HONOR,BECAUSE OF HIS SACRIFICE.

this is all what i have to say ,i will no more discuss this subject with you ,we are to fare a part in the understanding of scriptures.

March 12, 2012 at 8:34 pm#284434

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 12 2012,14:29)

Toby,

The topic of the thread is “do spirits have bodies”

Ghosts are spirits.

Therefore this thread is about ghosts or any other spirit you care to name.

My question is “do ghosts have bodies?”

Hi Kerwin.

There exists no such thing as a 'Ghost'.

'Ghost' is not a Scripturally endorsed word.

You may well find it in some naive Scriptural rendering but it is for that exact reason: naiviety.

Are there any particular reasons why you choose the naive rendering over the natural rendering of 'Spirit'.

Kerwin, I don't know whether you are up to speed in this thread but the topic question has moved on since it was set by Mikeboll.

Mikeboll (The thread owner) has since changed it and we who have been discussing it since that time are in agreement to abide by that change.

The Thread Topic question is nnooww: 'Do Spirits In Heaven such as Angels, Jesus and God, have Bodies?'

Is it possible to confine the discussion to the Topic Question?

March 12, 2012 at 8:39 pm#284436

Participant

Terraricca.

Psalm 8:3 is indeed concerning Mankind.

The target reference is variously interpreted as “He”, “Him”, “Them” and “Man”.

There is, nor has there ever been, any argument about this, except by your doubt here just for the sake of opposing Gene.

David is contrasting the minuteness of Humanity with the beauty and glory of the Universe, the Starry skies, which are the finger-tip work of God Almighty.

(Of course, David, here, is not including the fact that Humanity is made in the 'Image of God', which is a greater glory than the '(perceived) Static and 'Imageless' Universe)

March 12, 2012 at 8:40 pm#284437

Participant

Mikeboll.

Since you seem reluctant to post any beginning to end listing of your ideas such that we can see your 'Body of Evidence', I would like to start examining the so-called 'Evidence' that you presented here in this forum.

Feel free to respond with any 'New'or even 'Transformed' ideas or views.

Let's start at the beginning:

You said that Jesus was in a 'Spiritual Body' in Heaven before coming to Earth as (a Son of) Man.

Can you tell everyone here what happened to the 'Spiritual Body' (as you said) of Jesus when he came to Earth as (a Son of) Man?

March 12, 2012 at 8:46 pm#284438

Participant

Quote (toby @ Mar. 13 2012,14:39)

Terraricca.

Psalm 8:3 is indeed concerning Mankind.

The target reference is variously interpreted as “He”, “Him”, “Them” and “Man”.

There is, nor has there ever been, any argument about this, except by your doubt here just for the sake of opposing Gene.

David is contrasting the minuteness of Humanity with the beauty and glory of the Universe, the Starry skies, which are the finger-tip work of God Almighty.

(Of course, David, here, is not including the fact that Humanity is made in the 'Image of God', which is a greater glory than the '(perceived) Static and 'Imageless' Universe)

toby

sorry but I have said enough on this if you figure you know better that will be you credit and my losses ,
but what I have declared is what i know to be true .

March 12, 2012 at 10:27 pm#284456

Participant

Hi Terraricca,

I find that fascinating… but you need only have said 'Oh, sorry Gene, I was wrong.'

Terraricca, there is no shame in admitting you were wrong about something concerning God's word.

in fact, it is a good thing to admit incorrect thoughts and ideas – as long as you do not restore those incorrect thoughts and ideas at a later date (See the Parable of the Demon Spirit returning to the Cleaned House).

March 12, 2012 at 10:28 pm#284457

Participant

Hi Mikeboll,

Could you comment on this for me? (It's a semi-quote from Seeking from some time back)

“When the physical body (of an elect) is raised, that raised body will be a Spiritual Body.

Jesus was raised from the dead in a Spiritual Body and He described His Spiritual Body as still having flesh and bones (There was no Blood because he gave that up as a the Sacrifice fir the sins if Mankind)

March 12, 2012 at 10:52 pm#284462

Participant

Quote (toby @ Mar. 13 2012,16:27)

Hi Terraricca,

I find that fascinating… but you need only have said 'Oh, sorry Gene, I was wrong.'

Terraricca, there is no shame in admitting you were wrong about something concerning God's word.

March 12, 2012 at 11:01 pm#284464

mikeboll64

Blocked

Hi Toby,

I'm really not interested in any more discussion with you on this subject.

I have my understanding, and scripture backs up that understanding. If you interpret those same scriptures differently from the rest of us, it's really no big deal. We simply disagree, Toby, and I'm tired of beating a dead horse with you.

March 12, 2012 at 11:02 pm#284465