Do spirits have bodies?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,17:31)

Pierre, Quote KERWIN many people believe in ghosts but are those real  many believe in ufo and believe in little green man, could ghost mean reflection of a dream not a reality   just like a wish full desire ?? I know that it is currently a skeptical age but those who follow Jesus do not follow teachings of the word.  If you believe that a spirit of a man exists separate from a man’s body then you believe in ghosts; as that is all a ghost is.  Ghosts are real and their land is Sheol. The question is; “are there any ghosts outside of Sheol?” Scripture demonstrates the disciples believed there were and that Jesus did not discourage that belief.  Jesus not only did not discourage it but acknowledged it by making a case why he was not a ghost.

kerwin

well if a ghost is a spirit then how can we see it ??

the disciples i believe were in an unbelieving state of emotion

and did not figure it out what was happening ,was it real or they were having a dream ?

so when Christ start to talk they figure that it was real and them came closer to him and touch him,

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,06:41)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,17:31) Pierre, Quote KERWIN many people believe in ghosts but are those real  many believe in ufo and believe in little green man, could ghost mean reflection of a dream not a reality   just like a wish full desire ?? I know that it is currently a skeptical age but those who follow Jesus do not follow teachings of the word.  If you believe that a spirit of a man exists separate from a man’s body then you believe in ghosts; as that is all a ghost is.  Ghosts are real and their land is Sheol. The question is; “are there any ghosts outside of Sheol?” Scripture demonstrates the disciples believed there were and that Jesus did not discourage that belief.  Jesus not only did not discourage it but acknowledged it by making a case why he was not a ghost. kerwin well if a ghost is a spirit then how can we see it ?? the disciples i believe were in an unbelieving state of emotion and did not figure it out what was happening ,was it real or they  were  having a dream ? so when Christ start to talk they figure that it was real and them came closer to him and touch him,

Pierre,

Here is what the Scripture reads.

Matthew 14:26

New American Standard Bible (NASB)
26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out [a]in fear.

Footnotes:

   Matthew 14:26 Lit from

The acted as if they thought Jesus was an actual ghost by crying out from fear.

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,19:08)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,06:41) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,17:31) Pierre, Quote KERWIN many people believe in ghosts but are those real  many believe in ufo and believe in little green man, could ghost mean reflection of a dream not a reality   just like a wish full desire ?? I know that it is currently a skeptical age but those who follow Jesus do not follow teachings of the word.  If you believe that a spirit of a man exists separate from a man’s body then you believe in ghosts; as that is all a ghost is.  Ghosts are real and their land is Sheol. The question is; “are there any ghosts outside of Sheol?” Scripture demonstrates the disciples believed there were and that Jesus did not discourage that belief.  Jesus not only did not discourage it but acknowledged it by making a case why he was not a ghost. kerwin well if a ghost is a spirit then how can we see it ?? the disciples i believe were in an unbelieving state of emotion and did not figure it out what was happening ,was it real or they  were  having a dream ? so when Christ start to talk they figure that it was real and them came closer to him and touch him, Pierre, Here is what the Scripture reads. Matthew 14:26 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out [a]in fear. Footnotes:    Matthew 14:26 Lit from The acted as if they thought Jesus was an actual ghost by crying out from fear.

Kerwin

Mk 6:48 He saw the disciples straining at the oars, because the wind was against them. About the fourth watch of the night he went out to them, walking on the lake. He was about to pass by them,
Mk 6:49 but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he was a ghost. They cried out,
Mk 6:50 because they all saw him and were terrified.
Immediately he spoke to them and said, “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.”
Mk 6:51 Then he climbed into the boat with them, and the wind died down. They were completely amazed,
Mk 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened.

read verse 52

[kerwin]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,07:26)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,19:08) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,06:41) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,17:31) Pierre, Quote KERWIN many people believe in ghosts but are those real  many believe in ufo and believe in little green man, could ghost mean reflection of a dream not a reality   just like a wish full desire ?? I know that it is currently a skeptical age but those who follow Jesus do not follow teachings of the word.  If you believe that a spirit of a man exists separate from a man’s body then you believe in ghosts; as that is all a ghost is.  Ghosts are real and their land is Sheol. The question is; “are there any ghosts outside of Sheol?” Scripture demonstrates the disciples believed there were and that Jesus did not discourage that belief.  Jesus not only did not discourage it but acknowledged it by making a case why he was not a ghost. kerwin well if a ghost is a spirit then how can we see it ?? the disciples i believe were in an unbelieving state of emotion and did not figure it out what was happening ,was it real or they  were  having a dream ? so when Christ start to talk they figure that it was real and them came closer to him and touch him, Pierre, Here is what the Scripture reads. Matthew 14:26 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out [a]in fear. Footnotes:    Matthew 14:26 Lit from The acted as if they thought Jesus was an actual ghost by crying out from fear. Kerwin Mk 6:48 He saw the disciples straining at the oars, because the wind was against them. About the fourth watch of the night he went out to them, walking on the lake. He was about to pass by them, Mk 6:49 but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he was a ghost. They cried out, Mk 6:50 because they all saw him and were terrified. Immediately he spoke to them and said, “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” Mk 6:51 Then he climbed into the boat with them, and the wind died down. They were completely amazed, Mk 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened. read verse 52

Pierre,

It is true that they had not gained any insight from the incident of the loves and the fishes because their heart was hardened but that does not mean they did not believe in free roaming ghosts.

It does mean that they did not initially consider that since he was given the miracles power to increase the loaves and fishes in number that walking on water was well within his means.

[toby]

Hi Mikeboll,
You said:

Quote

As for the understandings of certain scriptures that I posted, your responses are laughable at best.  For example, 2 Cor 5 clearly states that God will not leave us naked, but will give us a spiritual tent to replace our earthly one.  Yet you blew right over that part.

How many times do you want answers to questions you already had answers to, without saying you haven't been answered on it?

Quote

You said “like gas loosed from a constraining vessel”.  Okay, but only if God gave that gas a spiritual constraining vessel to replace the one it was loosed from.

Does the unrestrained gas have a body while it is unrestrained? you are agreeing here that it does not have a body until God puts it back into a restraining vessel again.

Is Paul's Spirit in a Body after leaving his Earthly Body and before being put into the Spiritual Body/Tent?

[toby]

Hi Mikeboll,
You do realise that references to Angels in Heaven with Wings are Symbolic only.
If you are going to believe Angels are such then you must also believe that Jesus:
1) Has hair as white as wool, a double-edged sword for a tongue and feet made of bronze
2) Is a Lamb 'as if slaughtered'
3) A giant Angel (With no wings)!!

And the Spirit that is God is a Jasper and Sardius stone (Rev 4:3).

Mikeboll, please don't confuse Symbolism with reality.

[toby]

Mikeboll,
You said:

Quote

No Toby.  I didn't read Gene's post.  In fact, I very rarely read Gene's posts.  I usually skim them quickly, pick a sentence out, and respond to it.

It's a pity then.  Because every word of it was true.
Maybe if he had said something wrong within that paragraph, then perhaps you would have read it then, eh?
But perhaps, as you say, you didn't read it – or was the 'No Toby' meaning that you didn't find anything wrong?

[terraricca]

Quote (toby @ Mar. 12 2012,01:38)

Mikeboll, You said: Quote No Toby.  I didn't read Gene's post.  In fact, I very rarely read Gene's posts.  I usually skim them quickly, pick a sentence out, and respond to it. It's a pity then.  Because every word of it was true. Maybe if he had said something wrong within that paragraph, then perhaps you would have read it then, eh? But perhaps, as you say, you didn't read it – or was the 'No Toby' meaning that you didn't find anything wrong?

Toby. Alias the spooky one

You have so much ego. If you do not control it you will choke on it

One day

You haven learn nothing ,you really think that we are like you ,but we are not,

So stay with your friend gene I will for sure leave you two in your circle,

I ate religion and the once that like to control others,

So good bey

[toby]

Mikeboll,
You said:

Quote

Toby, all of your rebuttals are equally lame.  I just don't have the interest in showing you this stuff over and over again due to the fact that you're pig-headed.

OK.  But are you sure this isn't your euphormism for 'I am found out'?

Up to now,  you cannot seem to outline in detail what your belief is, but only put a bit here and a bit there.
The outcome of this, is that no one knows what you believe, apart from the shell – the skin – of your belief – that is: you believe Spirits have bodies.
You have the Spirit of a theory but cannot contain it in a body of evidence!

Shall we examine your theory and point out the flaws… Oh wait, yo don't like 'Novels'… Fair enough.

You said you would answer my questions point by point… Then what happened?

Ok, I don't mind.  The questions are still here for you to try to answer, if you can.

Here is a two-part question:

You said that Jesus had a 'Spiritual Body' before he came down to Earth, into the Body of a baby, in the womb of Mary. (I extended the last part for clarity)

A) What part of Jesus was it that left Heaven and entered into Mary?

B) What did Jesus do with the Spiritual Body he had when he left Heaven?

[terraricca]

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,22:19)

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,07:26) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,19:08) Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,06:41) Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,17:31) Pierre, Quote KERWIN many people believe in ghosts but are those real  many believe in ufo and believe in little green man, could ghost mean reflection of a dream not a reality   just like a wish full desire ?? I know that it is currently a skeptical age but those who follow Jesus do not follow teachings of the word.  If you believe that a spirit of a man exists separate from a man’s body then you believe in ghosts; as that is all a ghost is.  Ghosts are real and their land is Sheol. The question is; “are there any ghosts outside of Sheol?” Scripture demonstrates the disciples believed there were and that Jesus did not discourage that belief.  Jesus not only did not discourage it but acknowledged it by making a case why he was not a ghost. kerwin well if a ghost is a spirit then how can we see it ?? the disciples i believe were in an unbelieving state of emotion and did not figure it out what was happening ,was it real or they  were  having a dream ? so when Christ start to talk they figure that it was real and them came closer to him and touch him, Pierre, Here is what the Scripture reads. Matthew 14:26 New American Standard Bible (NASB) 26 When the disciples saw Him walking on the sea, they were terrified, and said, “It is a ghost!” And they cried out [a]in fear. Footnotes:    Matthew 14:26 Lit from The acted as if they thought Jesus was an actual ghost by crying out from fear. Kerwin Mk 6:48 He saw the disciples straining at the oars, because the wind was against them. About the fourth watch of the night he went out to them, walking on the lake. He was about to pass by them, Mk 6:49 but when they saw him walking on the lake, they thought he was a ghost. They cried out, Mk 6:50 because they all saw him and were terrified. Immediately he spoke to them and said, “Take courage! It is I. Don’t be afraid.” Mk 6:51 Then he climbed into the boat with them, and the wind died down. They were completely amazed, Mk 6:52 for they had not understood about the loaves; their hearts were hardened. read verse 52 Pierre, It is true that they had not gained any insight from the incident of the loves and the fishes because their heart was hardened but that does not mean they did not believe in free roaming ghosts. It does mean that they did not initially consider that since he was given the miracles power to increase the loaves and fishes in number that walking on water was well within his means.

Kerwin

What you think is the hardening of their heart mean ?

[toby]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,18:48)

Quote (toby @ Mar. 12 2012,01:38) Mikeboll, You said: Quote No Toby.  I didn't read Gene's post.  In fact, I very rarely read Gene's posts.  I usually skim them quickly, pick a sentence out, and respond to it. It's a pity then.  Because every word of it was true. Maybe if he had said something wrong within that paragraph, then perhaps you would have read it then, eh? But perhaps, as you say, you didn't read it – or was the 'No Toby' meaning that you didn't find anything wrong? Toby. Alias the spooky one You have so much ego. If you do not control it you will choke on it One day You haven learn nothing ,you really think that we are like you ,but we are not, So stay with your friend gene I will for sure leave you two in your circle, I ate religion and the once that like to control others, So good bey

Wow, are you nasty! What is WRONG with you?

You are creepy!!

[toby]

Can I report that post?

[toby]

Terraricca,

Did you even read anything I said about Gene's belief and mine?

Did you read the part I highlighted for Mikeboll to read?

It just seems that your pointless response is just a result of having nothing else to do.

Read what I asked concerning the paragraph i quoted and have a guess why the answer was 'No'.

Your ability to reason must be seriously questioned on this matter.

Instead of throwing accusations, why don't you point out what was wrong (You cannot because there was nothing wrong with what Gene wrote. If you say there was, then it can only be because you never read it at all – just knee-jerk aggressive responses)

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Mar. 11 2012,00:50)

OK. But are you sure this isn't your euphormism for 'I am found out'?

Yes, quite sure. But thank you for your concern.

[GeneBalthrop]

Quote (terraricca @ Mar. 11 2012,11:41)

Quote (kerwin @ Mar. 11 2012,17:31) Pierre, Quote KERWIN many people believe in ghosts but are those real  many believe in ufo and believe in little green man, could ghost mean reflection of a dream not a reality   just like a wish full desire ?? I know that it is currently a skeptical age but those who follow Jesus do not follow teachings of the word.  If you believe that a spirit of a man exists separate from a man’s body then you believe in ghosts; as that is all a ghost is.  Ghosts are real and their land is Sheol. The question is; “are there any ghosts outside of Sheol?” Scripture demonstrates the disciples believed there were and that Jesus did not discourage that belief.  Jesus not only did not discourage it but acknowledged it by making a case why he was not a ghost. kerwin well if a ghost is a spirit then how can we see it ?? the disciples i believe were in an unbelieving state of emotion and did not figure it out what was happening ,was it real or they  were  having a dream ? so when Christ start to talk they figure that it was real and them came closer to him and touch him,

Terricca………….Bingo you have it. What they “THOUGHT” they saw , has nothing to do with the Fact that what they  “Thought the SAW” was real or ever could be real.  

The is no “Ghost or Spirit” (IN) the Grave , Scripture plainly say when a man die his Spirit goes Back to GOD who gave it , and God does not live in the Grave or Sheol. The only thing that is in the Grave is the BODY, which turn back to dust from which it came, nothing else.

None of us will ever live again without a “RESURRECTED” BODY WITH SPIRIT ADDED BACK INTO IT.  A resurrection that will “witness the redemption” of “Our Bodies” if this does not happen there will be no life or future life for us ever again, IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

[GeneBalthrop]

Kerwin………….You can not take a Parable as a Literal thing , it is given to illustrate a Principle it is an allegorical picture of judgments . And that analogy is not a analogy about the dead still living when they die. The example is about how some have a easy life with riches and do not suffer in this life as others suffer, but they in the future will recieve there share of hardship and suffering. Jesus was showing what was in store for certain People in the future, he was not talking about Life after death (IN) the Grave. And also one person can't by being that state warn another, and there is a dividing line between those who have suffered and those who have not .

I have posted you many scriptures that show what happens when a man dies , and that there is NO Works , NO Thought, NO Praise , and Pierre posted all those scripture that show that also.

Kerwin sound things say we consist of just two thing, A BODY, A SPIRIT and that combined equals a “LIVING SOUL” Nothing more or nothing less. When these two components are (SEPARATED) there is no longer a “LIVING SOUL” Left. Just a “DEAD” one, that simple  Brother. IMO

If what you say is true then there would be no need of a “RESURRECTION” of a BODY at all,  and Jesus' resurrection with a BODY did not count for anything  becasue he “REALLY” was not “TRULY” DEAD as he said he was.  

Kerwin This “FLESH” must Put on immortality in order fro us to eternal exist. “IT” (this Flesh) is sown in weakness , “IT” (this flesh) is raised in Power and Glory, “IT” is sown a “natural BODY” “IT” (this Flesh”) is raised a Spiritual BODY.  Kerwin that “IT” is all the same “IT” a “BODY” that is raised. Why? because a LIVING SOUL can not exist without  a BODY with Spirit added Back into “IT” that  “BODY”>

peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………..gene

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 09 2012,21:02)

Mike fact is Toby has victory over you……………..

So then you agree with him that angels DON'T have bodies?

[GeneBalthrop]

Toby………What Mike is trying to Do is change the topic, its not about Angels it is about “Do SPIRITS HAVE BODIES”

He thinks if he can divide us on another issue then he win his Point,  don't fall for it , the issue on this post is clear and we Both are agreement on it.  If he wants to discus Angels he need to start a Post on them.  Lets keep him on focus Brother.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………..gene

[terraricca]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Mar. 12 2012,11:19)

Toby………What Mike is trying to Do is change the topic, its not about Angels it is about “Do SPIRITS HAVE BODIES” He thinks if he can divide us on another issue then he win his Point,  don't fall for it , the issue on this post is clear and we Both are agreement on it.  If he wants to discus Angels he need to start a Post on them.  Lets keep him on focus Brother. peace and love to you and yours………………………………………………..gene

gene

what now angels are no longer spirits ? what are they then

[mikeboll64]

I think Gene is the only person in existence that doesn't understand that angels are ministering SPIRITS.  

Gene, don't fool yourself.  This thread has ALWAYS been about whether SPIRITS, such as the angels, Jesus, and God, have bodies.

What did you think the “How about God?” part of the title is about?  

It has ALWAYS been about SPIRIT BEINGS like angels and God.  The fact that you've been confused since the start of this thread is of no consequence to the rest of us.  Everyone else has understood the title just fine.

That being said, did Toby really gain victory over me?  Do you now believe that spirits angels DON'T have bodies?

Are you even adept enough to realize what Toby and I are arguing about?  He is INSISTING that angels don't have bodies.  Do you agree with him?  Or do you still agree with me and the other 30 people who have commented on this thread?

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