Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

Quote (kerwin @ Dec. 07 2010,21:29)

Gene,

A phantasm has a body and is also called a spirit.

You may well be correct about the valley of dry bones in Ezekiel. It is another part of scripture that bears looking into.

Kerwin………..God gave us all a picture of the resurrection through Ezekiel at the valley of dead dry bones, Jesus himself was raised up with a BODY and we all must have a Body as he has and Spirit added back into it. GOD considers Bodies a Temples he can and does exist (IN) with Us, It was GOD himself who Spoke through Jesus and Said destory this temple and in three days I (GOD) will raise it up. Jesus was indeed dead and would have still been dead if GOD did Not raise him up (IN) a Body. A living Soul is a BODY + SPIRIT in it. we can not exist without this combination of Body and Spirit (intellect) in it. IMO

The problem here Kerwin people do not (REALLY) understand GOD was (TRULY) (IN) JESUS. Because they see him Not as SPIRIT but as a person with a body of some kind. Even though Jesus PLAINLY said the FATHER WAS (IN) HIM. This finally got through to Thomas and He replied ” MY Lord (AND) MY GOD. He finally got the picture the GOD was truly Present (IN) Jesus, The Trinity makes GOD a “PERSON ” but GOD is not a PERSON , but a Spirit (intellect) that indwells his creation from the least to the greatest, he is the very life of all creation , that is why he knows even when a sparrow falls and dies, because its spirit returns to him and his spirit is in all life forms that exists , GOD is what life is.

He is the (Intellect) causing and working life in all things. WE as individuals must have separate bodies with spirit (intellect) in it and GOD can add to our (intellects) by giving us more of His spirit (intellect) and adding to us the cognation of the TRUTH, which is one of the most precious Gifts to us from GOD, called the (earnest) of the Spirit of GOD. A person who has this Spirit of Truth in Him can not be deceived nor does he decieved because the Spirit of Truth both accuses Us and it defends us. IMO

peace and love to you and yours………………………….gene

December 7, 2010 at 4:03 pm#227884

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 07 2010,13:05)

47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.

Paul is clearly saying that Adam was the first man who was of the dust of the earth. He says that Jesus is the second man who is of heaven.

Mike………So to you the Second (MAN) Adam “JESUS” did not have a body right or was it a spiritual body that died on the cross or tree., and that BODY did NOT raise from the DEAD right?. Mike you absolutely have no idea what you are talking about.

Jesus is the SON OF MAN now and always will be a SON OF MAN. When He comes he WILL Be seen with a BODY the same one He was raised up with , He will not be Invisible drifting around in the air like the wind as you presume he is by being a Spirit being of some kind without a BODY that has substance. He does and will have a body that is clearly visible to all. The only one who exist outside of a Physical body is GOD Himself.

The term Spiritual body is a term Paul used to imply Spirit mindedness, and had nothing to do with our bodies but with the thinking going on (IN) those Bodies physical bodies.

gene

December 7, 2010 at 10:27 pm#227909

Participant

Mike,

Since when are Angels 'bodies' 'Adapted' to the heavenly realm?

From what are the Angel 'bodies' 'Adapted from'?

Adapted….changed From/To, modified….

Man's body is 'adapted to Spirit bodies'.

Mankind….Jesus Christ is the first of these Spirit-bodied men.

December 7, 2010 at 10:35 pm#227910

Participant

Mike, Terra, Irene,

One strange thing….

Does all your 'unproof' of 'Spirits have bodies' hang on this single set of verses that in fact don't even talk of Spirits with bodies…but Mankind being made into the new creation…

Who's the first of yee
to learn the simple 'A B C'?
Come on now, 'one, two, three'
Left foot, Right foot, break them free

December 7, 2010 at 11:28 pm#227918

Participant

Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 08 2010,15:35)

Mike, Terra, Irene,

One strange thing….

Does all your 'unproof' of 'Spirits have bodies' hang on this single set of verses that in fact don't even talk of Spirits with bodies…but Mankind being made into the new creation…

Who's the first of yee
to learn the simple 'A B C'?
Come on now, 'one, two, three'
Left foot, Right foot, break them free

you say that mankind is a new creation ,yes i agree;but the fact that they are renewed it is trough the obedience of God words and the acceptance of Christ sacrifice;so since anyone who do change and walk in the spirit of Christ and so in God,
and keep this up until he died ,he is a new creation at the resurrection,
if not he will be resurrected at the second resurrection with the old creation carnal just the way he was wen he died,

now if you do not believe in scriptures about spiritual bodies,this is your personal problem.with God

Pierre

December 8, 2010 at 12:57 am#227954

Participant

Terricca……….Wrong he is a “NEW CREATION” ALL READY while He is still in the FLESH, > “KNOW YOU NOT THAT (NOW) YOU ARE THE SONS OF GOD”. ALL who have GODS anointing Spirit in them are (NOW) SONS of GOD. According to John. “It does not appear what we Shall be but we know that as he (IS) so Shall (WE) Be”. (exactly the same), There is not difference between Jesus' Identity and those who are (now) born of the Spirit. You trinitarians and preexistences are alway trying to (SEPARATE) JESUS FROM US AND OUR IDENTITY WITH HIM AS A BROTHER OF OURS.

This is the difference between those of the truth and those who are not of the truth, those who are of the truth identify (exactly) with Jesus and those who are decieved have (NO) identity with Him at all, both now and in the future. IMO

peace and love………………………………….gene

December 8, 2010 at 2:33 am#227965

gollamudi

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2010,10:57)

peace and love………………………………….gene

Good post brother Gene. I agree on this statement of yours. N.T conforms your views.

Peace and love
Adam

December 8, 2010 at 3:15 am#227971

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2010,17:57)

peace and love………………………………….gene

gene

those scriptures can not be fulfilled unless you die first;

Gal 5:7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth?
1Co 9:27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
1Co 10:12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!
1Co 10:13 No temptation has seized you except what is common to man. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can stand up under it.
1Th 5:21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
1Th 5:22 Avoid every kind of evil.
1Th 5:23 May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Th 5:24 The one who calls you is faithful and he will do it.

2Th 1:5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering

2Th 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.
2Th 1:9 They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power

Jas 2:12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom,
Jas 2:13 because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment

Jas 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him show it by his good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom.
Jas 3:14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth

Jas 4:7 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Jas 4:8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded

Jas 5:10 Brothers, as an example of patience in the face of suffering, take the prophets who spoke in the name of the Lord.
Jas 5:11 As you know, we consider blessed those who have persevered. You have heard of Job’s perseverance and have seen what the Lord finally brought about.

all those scriptures are in contradiction of your believe,
and now Gene read this verse;1Pe 1:3 Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! In his great mercy he has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead

DO YOU SEE THE””” NEW REBIRTH””””

Pierre

December 8, 2010 at 3:17 am#227972

Participant

Gene

Jesus Christ is not a new creation, if so you believe show me scriptures ???

Pierre

December 8, 2010 at 3:45 am#227977

mikeboll64

Blocked

JA:

Quote

Mike, please stop…what can i do to help you…

You want to help me? Then DIRECTLY answer my questions. Can you do that? Let's take this in baby steps JA, because by posting those huge posts, you pull a WJ. You know how one by one anyone can easily refute his “trinity proof” scriptures? That's why he must always list them a million at a time. And when someone tries to break them down and have him address just ONE at time, he bails out of sight.

This is what you have been doing since we started this discussion. What you do is put so many things in together that to you it sounds convincing. But each time I've tried to break it down to ONE point at a time, you either refuse to answer altogether, or you ignore the point and keep posting the same old stuff.

And just like WJ shows up a couple of weeks later making the same claim he refused to address individually earlier, you are now copying him in that respect too.

I see you are bringing the procreation of angels back into this. Didn't you run from that topic a couple of weeks ago?

JA, you either refuse or are unable to answer even the simplest of questions I've put forth, but just keep going and going with your “world according to JA” posts – like a badly misinformed Energizer Bunny.

And you've also picked up KJ's bad habit of thinking if you insult and ridicule someone enough, the others might be swayed into thinking YOU know what you're talking about. The only thing that's missing now is the funny little graphics he used to include in his posts. Martian did the same thing. He couldn't answer to the scriptures that Pierre, Irene and I kept posting for him, so he chose to belittle and insult us – as if that somehow made up for not being able to answer simple scriptures and questions.

Guess what JA? It didn't work for them, and it won't for you. Do you think that Pierre, Irene, and I are dumb enough to fall for that? We follow scriptures, man. You're not going to sway us away from the word of God with insults and ridicules.

It's like me showing Gene the DIRECT scriptures that say “angels are ministering spirits” and “Jesus became a life-giving spirit“, and here he is STILL posting his own ideas in opposition to those scriptures as if I had never posted them to begin with. It's crazy man.

You have proven that you are unable to do a Q and A discussion with me JA. You don't have the scriptures on your side and you know it. So your only recourse to save face (in your own eyes, not ours) is to keep posting the same stuff our scriptures have proved wrong over and over.

I'll tell you what, when you want to have a serious discussion, let me know. Until then, I have nothing to say to your posts. I'll give you one last chance here, JA. Let's see if you can stay on point and either defend your view or accept mine…….instead of running around in circles avoiding the point altogether, okay?

POINT #1: The Nephilim were the offspring of angels and humans………True or False?

POINT #2: Adapted means “suited” JA. It isn't necessarily an action of “adapting” TO things. God gave fish a body that was ADAPTED TO, or SUITED TO living in the water. God gave mankind a body that was ADAPTED TO, or SUITED TO living on planet earth. And God gave angels a body that was ADAPTED TO, or SUITED TO living in heaven. Do you now understand that “adapted” means “suited” JA? YES or NO? (Suited is a synonym for adapted, if that helps)

Now JA, if you are able to answer these 2 simple points, then I will deem you worthy of my time and effort. But if you are just going to keep ignoring my questions and points, then why should I waste my time on you? It gets real old showing Gene scriptures that say angels are spirits just to keep getting the answer, “No they're not”. Likewise, you're avoidance of any point I make has gotten old. It's not important for me to “best you” JA. You should know that from our debate. You conceded early on, and I refused your surrender – remember? And that was because I wasn't trying to gain some sort of victory for me, but the truth for you. I remain the same now JA. I'm after truth for all, including me. I'm not out to “best” anyone.

Address the above 2 points – WITHOUT a whole postful of nonsense and insults – or I'm done wasting time on you. All I need to see on your post is a True or a False, and a Yes or a No. Nothing else is required, nor is it necessary.

peace and love,
mike

December 8, 2010 at 9:09 am#228014

Participant

Mike,

You have once again lost the discussion.

Tnere is nothing more to say.

You have gone from Spirits having bodies with silly earthly examples…when Spirits are not earthly…that's the whole point…they are Spirits…

You thrash around trying to find even more ridiculous nonesense about 'occupying space' not realising you were actually cornering yourself because if Angels have a body, that body must occupy space…physical space, in galactic space, in celestial space just like tne Sun, moon and stars…therefore, how can they be in more than one place at a time, how can they be inside a man, in fact legions of them in one man.
How can Jesus' …spirit…be in more than one person at a time…because it is SPIRIT. Spirits have no bounds, tney have no bodies to be bounded by….you think of physical bodies but how then are they in more than one person and how do they move from place to place in 'no time at all'…

Mike, you are earthbound, bound in flesh…remain so…stop trying to mislead othersconcerning the Spirit…it is clear you are in complete ignorance and it is false pride in 'debating' that drives you.

The whole of '1Cotty15' is about Mankind being raised up from dead into a new Spiritual body.

Mankind, the glory of God…the glorious creation, in His image, to be like Him…

And Jesus Christ is the first..that's why God made him 'perfect'…begotten Son…and High Priest…

Tnis draws all the threads together…

Jesus was an Angel in Heaven.
Angels are servants of God.

Mankind is made in the image of God. Adam, was made to be Son of God in the flesh…meant to become 'perfected', but he sinned, fell from grace, no longer Son of God.

So another had to be put in place because God's plans MUST be fulfilled.

God chose his most righteous Spirit Son, we call him 'Jesus' but we don't know his name while in Heaven (But it is 'Wonderful'), just as we don't know Satan's name (But we call him 'Lucifer')

This 'Jesus', existing in divine state…Angels cannot die…because there is nothing of them To Die…they are Spirits, sustained by the power of God, ARE the power of God, perpetual power cannot be destroyed…
Jesus empties himself of this divinity and his 'mind' is put into ' the body you have prepared for me'.

This, then, is where Gene believes he began life…yes, life as Man. 100% Man, subject to sin, but he did not sin.
Jesus was therefore 'Son of God', the replacement for the first Adam, just as Seth became the replacement for Abel (oh, how you hate fractals (Pharasee) because they qualify the hidden truths of Scriptures and you want to say, 'i found it myself'. Mike, God knows the mind of man and put things in place to safeguard his word…wouldn't you do that…yes, for you were made like your creator…but yet you deny what God has pleased himself to do….so so sad…)

So Jesus remains sinless, becomes the human blood sacrifice that God requires (Animal sacrifice was just temporary holding).
Jesus dies, saves mankind from ultimate death, into personal death. Now each man is selfresponsible.
So, having overcome, he is perfected, laid as a seed in the ground, sown, dies..and raised up again…the new plant from the seed..
For that which is sown is not the same as that which grows from the sown. The wheat grain becomes the wheat plant, and from the wheat plant comes many more wheat seeds, from whence, when sowed and dies, more wheat plants…
So it is with the body of man…he is 'sown' ,..dead in the ground, but then raised up, not the same dead, but a new 'body', a spiritual body…who influences others, many others, to likewise be sown, and raised up….

Mike, 1corry15, is nothing to do with 'do spirits have bodies'.

You use it because it was the ONLY verses that even mentioned anything like the poorly thought out ideas you have on 'Spiritual bodies'.

My God (No, defo, not you, mike)…… You even try to say that 'Sun, moon and stars' are NOT Celestial bodies….what!!!!!!
Paul makes not one single reference to 'Spirits', as in Angels, yet somehow you make a link. A link so untenable i can only imagine your brain has become unhinged.

Mike, take a break…i open my arms to welcome you to truth and you spit into them….spit in my back also, then…for that is what you will see of me on this topic.

And …you lie about me running away from that other topic…it's you who cannot accept correction and no matter how anyone shows you truth you refuse to accept it.

Even when you 'win' you 'lose'.

Mike, i woke this morning and the Spirit said to me: 'Ask Mike this…'

So, Mike, you like puzzles, don't you?
When is it good to be wrong?
When is it bad to be right?

December 8, 2010 at 9:30 am#228015

Participant

Mike, Terra, Irene,

A song for you…

We three kings disoriented are.
Bearing myths we traverse afar
Scriptural fountains become like mountains
And heavens no longer contain the stars

Oh, Men of wonder, men of woes
Can you even count your toes?
Irene and Terra, what are you handling?
Stop following Mikebolls misunderstanding

Can't you see you're led astray
Please please please, pray pray pray
But through Jesus, the route to take
Ask for wisdom and knowledge, for His sake.

December 8, 2010 at 10:47 am#228018

kerwin

Participant

Pierre,

What do you believe a new creation is?

December 8, 2010 at 3:41 pm#228032

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2010,13:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2010,17:57)

peace and love………………………………….gene

gene

those scriptures can not be fulfilled unless you die first;

2Th 1:5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering

DO YOU SEE THE””” NEW REBIRTH””””

Pierre

Terricca…………First again you completely get off topic again nothing I QUOTED or Said disagree with any of those scripture you quoted, All who have the Spirit of GOD in the are a NEW CREATION IN GOD (NOW) while they are still in the Flesh Bodies they Have. I makes no difference to me if you can't see that, it only proves you carnal mind is controlling you thinking. ” FOR IT IS GOD THAT WORKS (IN) US BOTH TO WILL AND DO OF (his) GOOD PLEASURE. AND AGAIN

1 John 3:2…..> BELOVED, (NOW) are we the (SONS OF GOD), and it does not yet appear what we shall be: but (WE KNOW) THAT , when he shall appear , we shall be like him; because we shall see him (AS) HE IS.

Terricca……………Go figure what the (AS HE IS) means, then you might begin to understand. To me it means the (EXACT SAME WAY HE IS). In ever way, not different from him in any way, as you trinitarians and Preexistences think.

peace and love…………………………….gene

December 8, 2010 at 3:46 pm#228034

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2010,13:17)

Gene

Jesus Christ is not a new creation, if so you believe show me scriptures ???

Pierre

Terricca………..Who do you think the Last MAN ADAM IS? if not Jesus (the Christ) ,and He is the new creation of GOD in MAN. He is the First man created by GOD into a Perfect Man . No wonder you preexistences are so screwed up you don't even get the basics right yet. IMO

peace and love…………………………gene

December 8, 2010 at 5:12 pm#228044

gollamudi

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 09 2010,01:46)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2010,13:17)

Gene

Jesus Christ is not a new creation, if so you believe show me scriptures ???

Pierre

peace and love…………………………gene

Hi brother Gene,
Here are some scriptures which support your view on Jesus being the firstborn of the new creation of believers;

2 Cor 5: “17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come:[a] The old has gone, the new is here! 18 All this is from God,”

Rom 8:29 “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.”

Col 1: 18 “And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy.”

I think the death and resurrection of Jesus began this new creation of God as per N.T. All others who believe in Jesus will become like Jesus as per the verse you quoted from 1 John 3:

“1 See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. 2 Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears,[a] we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is.”

The body which Jesus has now in heaven is similar to what the believers will get after their resurrection that is the glorified resurrected human body as claimed by Paul in 1 Cor 15.

Peace and love to you
Adam

December 8, 2010 at 5:46 pm#228047

Participant

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 09 2010,08:41)

Quote (terraricca @ Dec. 08 2010,13:15)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 08 2010,17:57)

peace and love………………………………….gene

gene

those scriptures can not be fulfilled unless you die first;

2Th 1:5 All this is evidence that God’s judgment is right, and as a result you will be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which you are suffering

DO YOU SEE THE””” NEW REBIRTH””””

Pierre

peace and love…………………………….gene

Gene

I was under the impression that you also mention Christ being a new creation,if this is not the case.

then i am sorry it is me who did not see it right ,and please forgive me.

Pierre

December 8, 2010 at 5:52 pm#228049