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Quote (toby @ Feb. 13 2012,14:55) Dear All, Can we get back the thread topic – or have we all reached a conclusion?
Has it been shown that a Spirit (Angel, Jesus, God) has a Body in Heaven – in the Spirit Realm?
My conclusion is that: After 480+ pages, not even the most staunch supporters of 'Spirits having bodies' can show even the least bit of credible evidence (I put it to you all that if evidence was available then we should all become Mormons! Yet not one person has – quite rightly – claimed any such belief!)
Going further, it has been with swiftness on the part of some to dismiss Demon Spirits as part of this discussion as it is clear that they do not possess bodies of their own but can only cohabit in another living Being that has one.
And finally, just what would a Spirit need a body for in the Invisible, incorporeal, immaterial realm, anyway?
The body, in the physical world, is, after-all, a container, nay, a Restrainer, of the incorporeal Spirit.
tobyQuote And finally, just what would a Spirit need a body for in the Invisible, incorporeal, immaterial realm, anyway?
The body, in the physical world, is, after-all, a container, nay, a Restrainer, of the incorporeal Spirit.so what you saying is that in the spiritual invisible to our senses all angels God and Christ are a soup
??Pierre
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 12 2012,15:46) Quote (toby @ Feb. 13 2012,14:55) And finally, just what would a Spirit need a body for in the Invisible, incorporeal, immaterial realm, anyway?
The body, in the physical world, is, after-all, a container, nay, a Restrainer, of the incorporeal Spirit.so what you saying is that in the spiritual invisible to our senses all angels God and Christ are a soup
??Pierre
Good point, Pierre. Something has to separate one angel from the next. That something would be a “body”, distinguishing Michael from Gabriel, for example.Also, if the citizenship of the elect is to be in heaven, then why raise them with bodies in the first place? Why raise them from the dead in a body they won't even need? It doesn't add up.
And finally, 2 Cor 5 explains that God will not leave the elect naked, but will swap their earthly tent for a heavenly one.
From the “Satan was NOT the god of this age” thread:
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2012,15:37) I really do not understand why this is such a hot topic.
Maybe this is a battle of wills motivated by pride and the subject is only secondary.Angels are ministering spirits and I think that they have bodies.
After all they can be seen.Jesus has a body and as such he is the visible image of the invisible God in bodily form.
In scripture there is even descriptions of angels.
And it is written that we will become like the angels.
And we also know that the flesh nature will give way to the spiritual.If we are a body, soul, and spirit, is it not possible to have a different body and still be the same soul with the spirit inside. If so, then the outer flesh can give way to the spiritual so that we will have a spiritual body. Do not be confused with our spirit and a spiritual body.
The resurrected body of Christ is the prototype for all of those who will resurrected with him. The first Adam was the prototype of our current bodies and the Second Adam is the prototype of the spiritual body.
Just as Adam had a body, so the second Adam does too and my guess is that the first body is subject to physical laws and the second body is able to supersede such laws.
T8……….Yes and the Second Adam was Jesus and after his resurrection he had a Physical BODY. With his Spirit (IN) that body, but his Spirit was not the Body he had Now was it. Mikes sees Spirit as Bodies another words the man who had a Legion of demonic unclean Sprit (IN) him, Mike see that as a man with a “body” had a thousand “Bodies” (IN) him. GET the POINT?
Mike does not view Spirits as what is (IN) a Body rather Angel or Man or Jesus, But to him Spirits (ARE) the BODIES themselves. Because he thinks where it say and God created His angels Spirits and sends the out to minster it means God Created Angels as Spirits and the Spirits are their bodies. Nothing could be further from the truth, Spirit are what is (IN) Bodies they are Not the Bodies themselves. When we are resurected we will have a BODIES exactly like Jesus has and it will contain Spirit (IN) it. Spirit are not “BODIES” of any Kind they are what is (IN) Bodies of ALL KINDS, including Animals and Humans and Angels. Nearly all scriptures in the bible concerning Spirits support this . IMO
peace and love………………………………………..gene
To all………..Spirit in its simplest meaning is Cognate thought or simply put our INTELLECTS, Therefore when it say to try the Spirits we are trying what a person is saying becasue the spirits in him is what is producing his words , Just as the Spirit of the Living God that was (IN) Jesus' Body and regarded it as a temple, that He was In and can be (IN) all and thereby work through all. God lives vicariously (IN)and out of his creation, He is SPIRIT> He has NO Body that is why no one has seen him and will never see him except through the Spirit (intellect) of the MIND> He can create Bodies and inhabit them as we are all his created bodied beings and if he were to withdraw his spirit we would all die because the Spirit give life to the body it is in> No where in scripture does it say Spirit (ARE) BODIES of any kind. No one has produced a Scripture that say spirits (ARE) Bodies of any-kind. IMO
peace and love to you all……………………………………………gene
Mike…………The question here is do Spirits have bodies and the answer is no they Live (IN) Bodies they themselves are not bodies of any Kind. That is why a Soul = a BODY + SPIRIT And that is what makes a LIVING SOUL Just as Genesis says. Adam became (or came to be a “LIVING SOUL, when? after Spirit was Breath in his BODY> He was not a living Soul until then according to scriptures i have read. IMO
peace and love……………………………………………….gene
No Gene,
The question is whether or not spirit beings, such as angels and Jesus, have bodies in heaven. What do you say, Gene?
T8,
I agree with what you said but to be clear what is your position on the spiritual bodies, particularly does Jesus have an element of flesh and bones in His resurrected body?Thanks – Wm
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 13 2012,11:33) Mike…………The question here is do Spirits have bodies and the answer is no they Live (IN) Bodies they themselves are not bodies of any Kind.
That is why a Soul = a BODY + SPIRIT And that is what makes a LIVING SOUL Just as Genesis says. Adam became (or came to be a “LIVING SOUL, when? after Spirit was Breath in his BODY> He was not a living Soul until then according to scriptures i have read. IMOpeace and love……………………………………………….gene
Hi Gene,Body + Soul + Spirit = you wholly / Son
This verse seems to indicate that all three are different, yet you say otherwise; why?
1 Thess. 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole
spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgED J…………..Paul was not breaking a person down into three parts as you and others assume, Paul was saying simply the three terms that deal with a complete person, His Spirit and Soul and Body , be preserved , naturally that would be the case becasue your Spirit and Body is a “LIVING” SOUL, so all these are part of a Person as a WHOLE, a LIVING SOUL, Which contains a BODY and SPIRIT> Obviously if you preserve the BODY and the SPIRIT and combine them YOU HAVE a PRESERVED SOUL> But if you separate the Body from the spirit you do not have a remaining Soul , so the Soul would not be preserved either. So int order to preserve the SOUL you must have a Body with Spirit in it and that equals a Preserved Soul as a Whole Person.
Peace and love to you and yours Ed j…………………………………………………gene
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2012,15:37) I really do not understand why this is such a hot topic.
Maybe this is a battle of wills motivated by pride and the subject is only secondary.Yes, T8, you got that one spot on. People boast about posting for the last xxx posts, but cannot produce one shred of evidence for their claim. Instead, they offer only suppositions and dubious definitions – even refusing to define from a credible source the very pinnacle word in the topic: 'Body'.
No matter how it is said, the definition of 'Spirit' (In context of a Being) is 'Incorporeal, Invisible, Immaterial, Without Form, Shape or Body'. In contrast, 'Body' is defined as 'In contrast to Spirit, Made of Material Matter, Corporeal, Having Shape and Form and Physical'
Now, ask the question again: 'Do Spirits have Bodies?'
In order to get around clear evidence that Demon Spirits do not have Bodies (As Gene says), Mikeboll has decided to redefine the topic question to say 'Do Spirits (in Heaven) have Bodies?'.
Well, makes no difference to me – I accepted the additional part to the question.
So what happens next: Mikeboll is still posting about Jesus while he was on Earth in a Spiritual Body. How do you figure that?
Ok, so Mikeboll can't understand what the word 'Spiritual' means, and dredges up an alternative understanding of 'Belonging to a Spirit'. Well, ok, so I asked him to produce a few sentences using the word 'Spiritual' that pertain to 'Belonging to a Spirit Being'.
Ummm…. I'm still waiting…!!So, who do you think it is that is 'Motivated by Pride'?
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2012,15:37) Angels are ministering spirits and I think that they have bodies.
After all they can be seen.
Hi T8.T8, what is the definition of 'Spirit'?
T8, the topic question includes '…In Heaven…'
Mikeboll has limited it to 'In Heaven'.You are of course, entitled to what you think. The problem is when someone tries to battle their own opinions into the thoughts of others, even in the face of having to redefine the very nature and substance of the visible universe and the invisible spirit world.
You are saying, that you think that:
– an Invisible spirit is Visible;
– an Incorporeal Spirit is Corporeal;
– an Immaterial Spirit is Material;
– something Without Shape Or Form has Shape And Form.Well, that is new Science right there!!
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 14 2012,00:57) ED J…………..Paul was not breaking a person down into three parts as you and others assume, Paul was saying simply the three terms that deal with a complete person, His Spirit and Soul and Body , be preserved , naturally that would be the case becasue your Spirit and Body is a “LIVING” SOUL, so all these are part of a Person as a WHOLE, a LIVING SOUL, Which contains a BODY and SPIRIT> Obviously if you preserve the BODY and the SPIRIT and combine them YOU HAVE a PRESERVED SOUL> But if you separate the Body from the spirit you do not have a remaining Soul , so the Soul would not be preserved either. So int order to preserve the SOUL you must have a Body with Spirit in it and that equals a Preserved Soul as a Whole Person. Peace and love to you and yours Ed j…………………………………………………gene
Hi Gene,So you choose to disregard Scripture? …this is not wise brother.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgToby,
Have you gone back to claiming spirits don't even have FORMS now? Because that's where you started off on this thread a long time ago. And then, more recently, I gave you a “Praise Jah!” when you mentioned that they have forms. (To which you asked, “When did I ever say they didn't?”)
But now it seems like you're back to square one again?
Quote (t8 @ Feb. 12 2012,15:37)
Jesus has a body and as such he is the visible image of the invisible God in bodily form.
T8…T8… Please read what you just wrote… 'In Bodily form'!!
Come on, dude…
How do you say that God has a Body and Jesus is the the visible image of that Body … In Bodily Form…!!
That's not even proper English…!!
Now, if you say, 'Jesus is the Corporeal image of the Incorporeal God'… Eh, what about that – make sense? No?
Ok, 'Jesus the Bodily Form of the Invisible Form that is God'?Quote In scripture there is even descriptions of angels.
And it is written that we will become like the angels.
And we also know that the flesh nature will give way to the spiritual.T8, 'Become like the Angels'… Don't stop there. It goes on to say 'In Which Way' We will become like the Angels – of Heaven (There are also Demon Angels, remember!!)
Does it not say '…Who are neither given nor taken in Marriage…'!
Is this not the context in which the verse is used – Nothing to do with Body.Quote If we are a body, soul, and spirit, is it not possible to have a different body and still be the same soul with the spirit inside. If so, then the outer flesh can give way to the spiritual so that we will have a spiritual body. Do not be confused with our spirit and a spiritual body. Define 'Spiritual'.
Also, what of those who are to live on Paradise Earth? Are they in 'Spirit…Bodies'?
For what purpose did God create flesh – are you saying God regretted making flesh (the body of man in this case) and is now disposing of it?
Do Spirit… bodies drink wine? Live in houses? Toil (in a human sense)?Quote The resurrected body of Christ is the prototype for all of those who will resurrected with him. The first Adam was the prototype of our current bodies and the Second Adam is the prototype of the spiritual body. T8, first bit of sense in the whole of your post. Yes.
Quote Just as Adam had a body, so the second Adam does too and my guess is that the first body is subject to physical laws and the second body is able to supersede such laws. T8, you almost surpassed yourself twice now. Almost a Yes. The Spiritual Body is much superior to the Natural Body…
But you also did what Mikeboll did, and changed 'Natural' to 'Physical'. That is not legal, is it? Doing that changes the context of the verse. The verse did not say 'Physical' but 'Natural'.Why did you change the word – very interesting that you felt you needed to do that – very interesting…
Quote (toby @ Feb. 13 2012,15:09) Ok, so Mikeboll can't understand what the word 'Spiritual' means…………………
Why are you singling ME out, Toby?Everyone who has ever stepped foot on this thread agrees that spirit beings like angels have bodies…………..EXCEPT for you and (sometimes) Shimmer.
And all the lexicons and scholars agree that one of the meanings of “spiritual” is “belonging to a spirit”.
So why single ME out?
Hi Shimmer,
I agree with you, it is a stupid argument.
We will be what we will be.
God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgall
many do not understand this topic,and so are disputing what is not claimed,or said,but like always people do not stand back and look at the question ,but rush in to the discussion without understanding what is at stake ,and so created confusion but like always blame others for it ,
this is my opinion
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