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Quote (mikeboll64 @ Feb. 09 2012,08:56) Quote (Wakeup @ Feb. 08 2012,07:18) The angels are spirit creatures,with a spirit body.
satan is a spirit creature.
We are made in the image of God, so God has a body.We are given a face ,a body,arms and legs,just like God.
I agree wholeheartedly, Wakeup.
Haha Mike, you talk a load of rubbish! (Sorry).
After all these pages you still believe that God has a Body (Like us) and man was made in God's Body image.OK whatever Mike…
Mike, you've spent years here discussing Procreation and Human Reproduction and trying to make God out to be a Man. (Something which I called Blasphemous). I do find it Blasphemous because God is not a Man. Do you REALLY see God as having a Body like Man? Do you really think God procreates? Do you really think like begets like? (What was it you were saying or someone else was and you agreed – Dog begets Dog – Man begets man – God begets God?
Begetting is not what you think. Begetting is what God can do to us too. It means we are Adopted as Children of God – though born in the flesh.
Focus Mike. – Get back to reality and worship of God in Spirit and in truth.
Mike, have you ever heard of Armstrongism? I almost became one years ago – I loved their words and it was all so clear and made perfect sense, as in the way that they wrote. I had all of their booklets and watched their videos and I prayed and told God I would be one of their members. But eventually I found out:
– They are rascist. they believe the Europeans are the Elite Race. And that actually went against what i believed as in the 'Beast' of Rev etc.
– They make you tithe 30% Plus of your income. They give away free books etc, which seems good, but the Founders/Pastors are Rich as. (one example is Ronal Weinland).
And so many other things which I discovered I did not agree on.
They teach well. I loved their words. Their words are very seductive (Remember what Paul warned).
They believe that God procreates. They are Binitarians who believe also that Jesus was Jehovah, but that there is also God the Father known as Jehovah.
You should seriously look into it Mike.
take care.
One more thing and then I'm done.
Quote:
“The most important teaching in Armstrong's belief system is that Herbert W. Armstrong was the prophesied end-time Elijah. As the end-time Elijah, Armstrong was preparing the way for Christ's return by announcing Christ's imminent return.”
“Next in importance was Herbert's teachings on government. God's government is a pyramidal structure. God the Father is on top of the pyramid and is the ruler of the universe. Second in command is Jesus Christ, who occupies a subordinate position. Third, under Jesus Christ was Herbert W. Armstrong himself. He was the human leader of the church under Jesus Christ, who was the true head of the true church. All members of the church were subject to the edicts of Herbert W. Armstrong, who, as the third highest ranking being in the entire universe, was the mouthpiece of Jesus Christ. He served as a latter-day Moses, sitting in Moses' seat, passing on the words of God down through the pyramid to the members of the church. Authority was from the top down, and loyalty was from the bottom up.”
“Why the emphasis on tithes? In his commission to announce the imminent return of Jesus Christ to the world, Herbert Armstrong preached to heads of government all around the world. In order to gain access to these leaders, Armstrong had to donate huge sums of money to their favorite charities and give expensive gifts to these leaders directly. In addition, he could not go before these leaders as mere member of the working class. He had to go before them on their level, which meant he had to be fabulously wealthy. Accordingly, he wore the best clothes, traveled in a chauffeur driven limousine and a private jet plane” (Check the Early Writings on how to tell a False Prophet from a true Prophet – A true Prophet has no need for this).
“God is actually a family. God the Father is the head of the family. Jesus Christ is the first-born Son of God the Father. It is the ultimate destiny of all of mankind to become members of the God family, to become God as God is God”
“The Holy Spirit is like a sperm cell, and the new convert is like the human ovum. When we receive the Holy Spirit, we become a begotten child of God. If we persist and overcome during our lifetimes and remain loyal members of God's true church (which is like a human mother; a begotten child of God within the church is like a developing baby in its mothers womb) we will be born again at the resurrection of the dead and become children of God and members of the God family. If, however, we fall away from the faith and leave the church, or if we are excommunicated from the true church (it is impossible to be a true, spirit begotten Christian apart from the church), we are spiritually aborted”
Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 09 2012,07:19) Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 09 2012,12:55) What is the difference in these two scriptures? Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Does “image” in these two scriptures mean the same?
Georg
georgGe 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
here it says OUR why is that ?
Us and our, refers to the Father and son.Georg
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 09 2012,08:57) One more thing and then I'm done. Quote:
“The most important teaching in Armstrong's belief system is that Herbert W. Armstrong was the prophesied end-time Elijah. As the end-time Elijah, Armstrong was preparing the way for Christ's return by announcing Christ's imminent return.”
“Next in importance was Herbert's teachings on government. God's government is a pyramidal structure. God the Father is on top of the pyramid and is the ruler of the universe. Second in command is Jesus Christ, who occupies a subordinate position. Third, under Jesus Christ was Herbert W. Armstrong himself. He was the human leader of the church under Jesus Christ, who was the true head of the true church. All members of the church were subject to the edicts of Herbert W. Armstrong, who, as the third highest ranking being in the entire universe, was the mouthpiece of Jesus Christ. He served as a latter-day Moses, sitting in Moses' seat, passing on the words of God down through the pyramid to the members of the church. Authority was from the top down, and loyalty was from the bottom up.”
“Why the emphasis on tithes? In his commission to announce the imminent return of Jesus Christ to the world, Herbert Armstrong preached to heads of government all around the world. In order to gain access to these leaders, Armstrong had to donate huge sums of money to their favorite charities and give expensive gifts to these leaders directly. In addition, he could not go before these leaders as mere member of the working class. He had to go before them on their level, which meant he had to be fabulously wealthy. Accordingly, he wore the best clothes, traveled in a chauffeur driven limousine and a private jet plane” (Check the Early Writings on how to tell a False Prophet from a true Prophet – A true Prophet has no need for this).
“God is actually a family. God the Father is the head of the family. Jesus Christ is the first-born Son of God the Father. It is the ultimate destiny of all of mankind to become members of the God family, to become God as God is God”
“The Holy Spirit is like a sperm cell, and the new convert is like the human ovum. When we receive the Holy Spirit, we become a begotten child of God. If we persist and overcome during our lifetimes and remain loyal members of God's true church (which is like a human mother; a begotten child of God within the church is like a developing baby in its mothers womb) we will be born again at the resurrection of the dead and become children of God and members of the God family. If, however, we fall away from the faith and leave the church, or if we are excommunicated from the true church (it is impossible to be a true, spirit begotten Christian apart from the church), we are spiritually aborted”
And you believe that?Ps. I read your post above this one after I posted.
Btw, 10% tithe goes to the church.
Second 10% tithe is for the Feast of Tabernacles, kind of vacation money.
Third 10% tithe is every third year, for the poor and needy.
“Why the emphasis on tithes? In his commission to announce the imminent return of Jesus Christ to the world, Herbert Armstrong preached to heads of government all around the world. In order to gain access to these leaders, Armstrong had to donate huge sums of money to their favorite charities and give expensive gifts to these leaders directly. In addition, he could not go before these leaders as mere member of the working class. He had to go before them on their level, which meant he had to be fabulously wealthy. Accordingly, he wore the best clothes, traveled in a chauffeur driven limousine and a private jet plane” (Check the Early Writings on how to tell a False Prophet from a true Prophet – A true Prophet has no need for this).
Kind of like the pope, eh?
Georg
Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 09 2012,18:37) Quote (terraricca @ Feb. 09 2012,07:19) Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 09 2012,12:55) What is the difference in these two scriptures? Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
And
Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Does “image” in these two scriptures mean the same?
Georg
georgGe 1:26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
here it says OUR why is that ?
Us and our, refers to the Father and son.Georg
georgso this would mean then that the Father and the son and (could be the angels) ad some common image with men ??
Pierre
God is spirit, so is his son; that is the image the son was created in.
What is it that God has, the son has, the angels have, and we humans have, but not the animals?
We have a mind, that is our image God created us in, we can communicate with God, the animals can't.
Georg
Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 09 2012,13:38) Kind of like the pope, eh?
Hi Georg.Babylon = The Pope.
Babylon = Herbert Armstrong.
Babylon = World Religions.
Babylon = Governments.
Babylon = Materialism.Etc Etc.
Anything Georg can be a Part of Babylon. We are told to get out of Babylon.
Soon it will all be Ashes.
Georg, we're off Topic. Say Hello to Irene.
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 09 2012,18:35) Quote (Pastry @ Feb. 09 2012,13:38) Kind of like the pope, eh?
Hi Georg.Babylon = The Pope.
Babylon = Herbert Armstrong.
Babylon = World Religions.
Babylon = Governments.
Babylon = Materialism.Etc Etc.
Anything Georg can be a Part of Babylon. We are told to get out of Babylon.
Soon it will all be Ashes.
Georg, we're off Topic. Say Hello to Irene.
The “kind of like the pope” was for what you said about Mr. Armstrong.
And the 30% of tithing you said they all had to do, was misleading.Irene says hello to you.
Georg
Georg and Shimmer …………….You know we were requires to set aside Three tithes, on of the Church , one for the feast of Tabernacles and one for the For the Widows and Orphans every third year . But what you are falling to realize is Herbert Armstrong or the “Church”. Had NO authority to require us to tithe any thing at all. Georg let me tell you and Shimmer a “TRUE STORY” about this Tithing thing.
I had been in that “ONLY TRUE CHURCH ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH TODAY” for seven years I knew and understood every thing about their teachings, I studied the scriptures day in and day out to see if what was said was true or not. I found errors in some of there teachings and Tithing was just one of the big errors of that church among many.
After much study I call our pasture Mr Billingsly and a Elder Mr Wolf, to my home to discuss the Churches Teachings and there authority to require tithing on People in the church. I informed them, the Church was acting illegally and unscriptural to extract Tithes from anyone. Remember they said it was the “LAW” that we tithe, and so i went through step by step through the entire bible to show them that we were not required to do any of that. and after three hours of presenting to them the FACTS about Tithing. This is what i was told,
“Gene you are right we are not required to Tithe and we KNOW THIS, I responded , who is the we , You and Mr. Wolf or Mr. Armstrong and the Church leaders , He said they and Mr Armstrong know that we were not under any tithing “LAW”. So i said then you had nor have no authority to say we are required to tithe then. and Here was there answer.
Gene do you believe Mr. Armstrong is the ONLY APOSTLE on earth to day , and i responded I don't Know who he is , but i will tell you this , if he came at my door and pounded it and said i here you have a problem , i would not let him in my house , but if he said Brother lets talk thens over i would let him in. But the truth is I do not know what he is other then a Preached who “SAYS” He is GOD ONLY True APOSTLE ON this earth today. They said that he being GOD'S “ONLY TRUE APOSTLE” he had the authority and power to require all the “TRUE” Church to Tithe today, And that is why the church requires Tithing. I say OK now i know why we are tithing, but you are not telling people that are you? you are saying we have to tithe because the LAW of GOD say we have to Right?, and i find that a major deception on you and Mr Armstrong's Part.
There were some other Scripture doctrine issues i discussed with them also, things they preached that were not scriptural either, and we had another Three hour discussion about those thing also. Needless to say after those sessions i told them that in all honesty i could no longer support them and go along with these false teachings either. I was not Kicked out of that Church but left voluntarily we had many close brother and sister in that church that we were very close to and my whole family was effected in fact my wife kept going for a while after i quite, I also was told if i contacted other about my reasons they would “MARK” Me and require all not to have contact what me., I Told him to not try to threaten me becasue i was not afraid of Him or his threats, and said if anyone calls me and asks i will tell them why , but i was not going to call anyone and tell the why i left to try to drag them from the Church, that was up to them not me.
The World Wide Church of GOD was a CULT, just like the JW'S are ruled from the TO DOWN by those in charge, they played on this feelings of you being a “SPECIAL PEOPLE” the “ONLY TRUE CHURCH” and if you were in, then YOU WERE SPECIAL one of the TRUE ONES of GOD'S Kingdom. They separated people from there Families and even Marriages. These things i Know for a FACT> They took some truths and mixed it with lies and used it to control people and there MONEY> I was a Major contributor to that false church for seven years. To the tune of about thirty thousand dollars in Seven Years, back when that would equal to about 300,000.00 Now, Before i saw where we were being riped off. While they “Herbert W. Armstrong was taking POOR PEOPLES MONEY and LIVING a LIFE of riches and extravagant wealth, there has to be a special place in Hell for these kinds of People. IMO
NO ONE IS REQUIRED TO TITHE IN THE “TRUE CHURCH OF GOD” Tithing was a form of TAX for THE NATION of ISRAEL, it supported The Levities who administered the Government of Israel as Judges , doctors, religious leaders and these Levities were Public servants who were supported by those tithes. But there was no other form of Taxes put on people other then the Tithe and that was only on the (INCREASE)>
Peace and love to you and yours……………………………..Georg
Quote (shimmer @ Feb. 08 2012,15:57) In order to gain access to these leaders, Armstrong had to donate huge sums of money to their favorite charities and give expensive gifts to these leaders directly. In addition, he could not go before these leaders as mere member of the working class. He had to go before them on their level, which meant he had to be fabulously wealthy. Accordingly, he wore the best clothes, traveled in a chauffeur driven limousine and a private jet plane.
I don't remember Jesus doing it this way.
Gene, that's a lot of money to lose.
From what I learnt there are 12 main offshoots from the WCG, and hundreds of Splinter Groups, including Bethel Church and the Assembly of God's (AOG).
But hey – were off topic. Perhaps someone could start up a new thread on it?
I apologise for taking this of Topic.
Shimmer ……….Yea i know there are many offshoots from the WCG, and i am not sorry i was in that church becasue i did learn a lot about the Law and the Holy Days, and meant many good and loving people there. But they wanted us to stay in the Old Testament and Not move on the More Spiritual things given in the New Testament, While the Laws of God are spiritual they were administered in a carnal Physical way until The New testament came when GOD sent forth his Spirit into our hearts so we could keep them from the inside of us out instead from the outside in as the LAW (forced compliance worked) and we no longer needed the “LETTER” , but by way of a New creation in our hearts and minds by the Spirit and Power of GOD through the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
peace and love to you and yours Shimmer…………………………………………………..gene
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Feb. 11 2012,15:46) Shimmer ……….Yea i know there are many offshoots from the WCG, and i am not sorry i was in that church becasue i did learn a lot about the Law and the Holy Days, and meant many good and loving people there. But they wanted us to stay in the Old Testament and Not move on the More Spiritual things given in the New Testament, While the Laws of God are spiritual they were administered in a carnal Physical way until The New testament came when GOD sent forth his Spirit into our hearts so we could keep them from the inside of us out instead from the outside in as the LAW (forced compliance worked) and we no longer needed the “LETTER” , but by way of a New creation in our hearts and minds by the Spirit and Power of GOD through the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. peace and love to you and yours Shimmer…………………………………………………..gene
Gene B.Good post by the way,and I also know them for a while; and that they are an offshoot of the jws.but before that I think it was the 7th day adventis.I use to read their little booklets.
They have an offshoot today ,and that is the philadelphia trumpet.
DO THEY ALSO BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS MICHAEL?
And about tithing; If a person needs to give a CERTAIN amount on a regular basis,than this is not giving with the heart; is it. This becomes like paying off a car loan,for ever,until one is dead.
Tithing must come from the heart; this is a clean offering.
You made the right decision; by coming lose of their web.
STAY WITH THE SCRIPTURES.peace.
wakeup.
Wakeup………..Yea that was over thirty years ago, Sense i left that church i was a novice then and know very little about scriptures then but with God's help i learned and am still learning as He teaches Me .
The WCG never taught Jesus was a Morphed Angel to my recollection and they did not believe in the trinity either. Thy believe once we became born again were were in the GOD Family and were to be GOD'S as GOD is GOD. They believe it was like GOD the FATHER, and GOD the Sons. God the Father and Jesus were the GOD HEAD of the GOD Family. This makes sense to a degree, since we were made to be the image of GOD which mean we are to reflect GOD in our lives, however to me reflecting GOD and Being GOD are two different things and God said He gives HIS GLORY TO “NO” MAN. So what we must become is People who see God's Way as the only true way and with his holy spirit put our WILL'S to death as Jesus did and conform to the WILL of GOD, this takes GOD to accomplish that change in our lives. It all work through Faith in GOD the Father and Jesus Christ. We must with patience endure what has been set before us that we might attain to the prize of the High calling.
If we sin we need to ask for forgiveness and he is faithful to forgive us and cleans us from “ALL” unrighteousness
peace and love to you and yours…………………………………………………….gene
GeneB.
Thank you; after all it is God that does the drawing.
One sows the seed;one waters; and God does the growing.
peace to you.
wakeup.
Dear All,
Can we get back the thread topic – or have we all reached a conclusion?
Has it been shown that a Spirit (Angel, Jesus, God) has a Body in Heaven – in the Spirit Realm?
My conclusion is that: After 480+ pages, not even the most staunch supporters of 'Spirits having bodies' can show even the least bit of credible evidence (I put it to you all that if evidence was available then we should all become Mormons! Yet not one person has – quite rightly – claimed any such belief!)
Going further, it has been with swiftness on the part of some to dismiss Demon Spirits as part of this discussion as it is clear that they do not possess bodies of their own but can only cohabit in another living Being that has one.
And finally, just what would a Spirit need a body for in the Invisible, incorporeal, immaterial realm, anyway?
The body, in the physical world, is, after-all, a container, nay, a Restrainer, of the incorporeal Spirit.
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