Do spirits have bodies?

[toby]

Hi Mikeboll.

Why do you ask me if I agree that Jesus was raised in a flesh and bone body? Is this not what Scripture says?  
Is it not you that is saying that Jesus was raised into a spiritual body that was not a flesh and bone body'?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 28 2012,15:19)

Mike, don't be silly.  There is no mention of God or Angels in there

So Shimmer, do you think Paul was saying the elect will be raised with bodies that resemble “the sun, moon and stars”?  Or was he saying they will be raised with bodies that resemble “those of heaven”?  Which one makes more sense to you?

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 28 2012,15:19)

Can you not present a dictionary definition of Body.

 The last time you asked me for commentaries, I posted a bunch of them that agreed with me.  And then you said, “I don't care much for the words of men” – or something to that effect.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Jan. 28 2012,15:35)

Hi Mikeboll. Why do you ask me if I agree that Jesus was raised in a flesh and bone body?  Is this not what Scripture says?

Toby,

This is what I asked you:
In other words, do we agree that Jesus was raised from the dead as a human being, and at that time had a human body made of flesh and bone?

Address the bolded part for me please.

Quote (toby @ Jan. 28 2012,15:35)

Is it not you that is saying that Jesus was raised into a spiritual body that was not a flesh and bone body'?[/

No.  Jesus was raised from the dead in the same exact, human, flesh and bone body that he died in.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 28 2012,15:33)

I really don't believe Mike want to post the dictionary definition it would only prove him wrong.

Hi Gene,

Can you tell us all the DEFINITION of the word “spirit” in Luke 24:37?

[toby]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2012,08:54)

Quote (toby @ Jan. 28 2012,15:35) Hi Mikeboll. Why do you ask me if I agree that Jesus was raised in a flesh and bone body?  Is this not what Scripture says?   Toby, This is what I asked you: In other words, do we agree that Jesus was raised from the dead as a human being, and at that time had a human body made of flesh and bone? Address the bolded part for me please. Quote (toby @ Jan. 28 2012,15:35) Is it not you that is saying that Jesus was raised into a spiritual body that was not a flesh and bone body'?[/ No.  Jesus was raised from the dead in the same exact, human, flesh and bone body that he died in.

Mikeboll, yes.  Jesus was raised up from the dead in a flesh and bone body as a human being.

[terraricca]

edj

Quote

PIERRE, First: the resolution question was “a question”, not ‘an accusation’. Resolution is ONLY accomplished by or upon a mutual agreement. 1) Angels are “Spirit Beings”. 2) A soul is our Spirit in our Body. 3) NO, because they are living Spirits. 4) Sure, yea, I would think it is so. 5) Huh? …what do you mean?(MAN IS MADE ;1)SOUL, 2) LIVING BREATH ,3) A BODY. ( A CAR + GAS + THE DRIVER ) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

I say;;(3)do they HAVE a living spirit (not are)? ( WHAT YOU MEAN THAT THEIR ;SPIRIT GIVEN BY GOD LIKE TO ALL CREATURES IS THE SAME THAN THEIR SOUL ?)

(4)do spirit beings are independent of each other ??

(5)if you say yes to those questions then they also have a body
in witch all tree item are in.

MY ANSWERS OR QUESTION ARE IN CAPITAL AND BETWEEN BRACKETS

Pierre

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2012,10:48)

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 28 2012,15:19) Mike, don't be silly.  There is no mention of God or Angels in there So Shimmer, do you think Paul was saying the elect will be raised with bodies that resemble “the sun, moon and stars”?  Or was he saying they will be raised with bodies that resemble “those of heaven”?  Which one makes more sense to you?

Mike you don't understand.  Paul was comparing the different types of “”bodies”” and stating that the dead would also be raised in a body, a new one.  Nothing to do with God and the Angels Mike.

Quote

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 28 2012,15:19) Can you not present a dictionary definition of Body.    The last time you asked me for commentaries, I posted a bunch of them that agreed with me.  And then you said, “I don't care much for the words of men” – or something to that effect.

Ok but just for the sake of the others here Mike.  It would help them to know what an agreed source says about Spirit and especially Body from you, IMO.  Thanks.

[shimmer]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 29 2012,10:33)

Shimmer………I am fine sis, thanks: a body according to the dictionary is a PHYSICAL OBJECTS,  it could be solid  liquid, or gas, or combinations of these elements and  is never represented as a SPIRIT in any dictionary definition to my Knowledge. I think me or someone else posted it a while back.I really don't believe Mike want to post the dictionary definition it would only prove him wrong. IMO I still stand by my conviction that a Spirit is not any kind of “BODY” but what is (IN) BODIES.  This is how it can be said “GOD IN ALL AND THROUGH ALL”> becasue GOD is a SPIRIT and Spirits cohabit Bodies, they themselves have no Body but posses the Bodies they are (IN)> rather a clean Spirit (INTELLECT) or an unclean Spirit (INTELLECT) If any Spirit is (IN) a Person (IT) will influence that persons MIND and consequentially that Person action. IMO peace and love to you and yours Shimmer………………………………………………………gene

Hi Gene.  Glad you are well!

[shimmer]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2012,15:43)

The last time you asked me for commentaries, I posted a bunch of them that agreed with me.  And then you said, “I don't care much for the words of men” – or something to that effect.

Oh yeah..  I don't care much for the words of man Mike!  In that you are right.. I was just saying.

[toby]

Hi Mikeboll.

In my list of questions to you a while back, your answers to at least two of them are slightly puzzling.

The questions were:

6.  So, if I'm still following you, the Spirit of Jesus is now housed in a 'Spiritual Body'.  Is this correct?
7.  So, the Spirit of Jesus 'In the Spiritual Body'…(sorry – long pause) – does that Spirit have a body?

You answered 'Yes' to question 6. and that is ok.
'The Spirit of Jesus is housed in a 'Spiritual Body''.  Therefore the 'Spirit of Jesus' does not itself have a body.  Then also, the Spirit in a Human Being does not have a body of itself but is housed in a body of Flesh, is this correct?  Then the legion of demon Spirit Beings (fallen Angels) that were in the man … Then they did not have bodies but were all housed in the body of the man.  And why when they came out of the man, they had to be housed in the body of the swines.  (Side point : by Jewish traditions this meant they were so desperate they were willing to enter into even the dirties filthiest place: cross reference 'The prodigal son')

I won't mention your answer to question 7 except to say that your references are concerning aspects of the Spirit of Jesus.  That answer was unacceptable but I will leave that for now.

It is question 8 that lastly fascinates me, concerning the 'Spirit of Jesus'.  You answered:

Quote

8.  It was originally in a spiritual body, then, when Jesus was made flesh, it was in a human body.  Now it is in a spiritual body again.'

So at All Times the 'Spirit of Jesus' was housed in one sort of Body or another – is this what you are saying?

And 'The Spirit of Jesus' was firstly in a Spiritual Body – is this correct?

Because how is it then that Apostle Paul says “But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual” Yet you say different to Apostle Paul?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Jan. 29 2012,02:23)

It is question 8 that lastly fascinates me, concerning the 'Spirit of Jesus'. You answered: Quote 8. It was originally in a spiritual body, then, when Jesus was made flesh, it was in a human body. Now it is in a spiritual body again.' So at All Times the 'Spirit of Jesus' was housed in one sort of Body or another – is this what you are saying? And 'The Spirit of Jesus' was firstly in a Spiritual Body – is this correct? Because how is it then that Apostle Paul says “But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual” Yet you say different to Apostle Paul?

Hi Toby,

Paul is speaking to who he considers to be among the elect about the future bodies of the elect. And in all cases, the elect that will follow Jesus to heaven will have existed first in a flesh body, and then be raised to heaven in a spiritual dwelling, because God will not leave them naked. (2 Cor 5)

BUT……………. as I've pointed out many times during this thread, Jesus is an exception to the rule in two parts:
1. Jesus is the only one who existed as a spiritual being before becoming a human being. So he is the only one for whom the spiritual came first, then the flesh, then the spiritual again.

2. Jesus is the only one who was not raised immediately in his spiritual body. He had 40 more days of work to do on earth before ascending to heaven, and so was first raised from the dead in the same flesh body in which he died. The others to follow had/will have no need to first be raised in the flesh before ascending to heaven.

So Jesus was an exception in both cases.

[mikeboll64]

Quote (toby @ Jan. 28 2012,16:35)

Mikeboll, yes.  Jesus was raised up from the dead in a flesh and bone body as a human being.

Thank you Toby, for your direct answer.  (Again, if you said this before in one of your other posts and I missed it, my apologies.)

In my understading, the body in which Jesus was raised was the same flesh and bone body in which he died.  He died as a human being, and was raised as a human being – the same human being in the same human body.

Do we agree on this, or do our understandings differ?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 28 2012,20:43)

Mike you don't understand.  Paul was comparing the different types of “”bodies”” and stating that the dead would also be raised in a body, a new one.  Nothing to do with God and the Angels Mike.

Yes Shimmer,

Paul said they would be raised in a new, spiritual body, like those of heaven have.  God will not leave the elect naked, Shimmer. They will swap their earthly tent for a spiritual tent.  (2 Cor 5)

[GeneBalthrop]

To All……….>Jesus is still a son of Man, what makes a Man different then GOD? , Man has a Physical BODY, while GOD has no Body He is Spiirt.

Jesus said when the So of MAN RETURNS, No where doe he say when a SPIRIT “BEING” returns now does He”, Show us one resurrection in scripture where there is no body involved. Scripture say (IT) this body is sown in weakness, and (IT) this body is raised in Power, now where does it say the Spirit is sown in weakness and this spirit is raised in power, No where does it> There would be no point of any kind of resurrection is a body was not involved. Doesn't it say “TO WITNESS THE REDEMPTION OF “OUR BODIES” it does not say the witness the redemption of our spirits now does it? Why becasue spirits can not die they simply go back to where they came from GOD> So the only thing that can be resurected is a BODY. I can't believe you have yet not come to see that MIKE>

Another point that might help you is to understand Jesus was a “SPIRITUAL” MAN that is what the word Christos Means He had the spirit of GOD in him so he was a spiritual human being while he was on this earth in his physical body, The only thing that changed was his body from a body subject to death to one that is not subject to death , he had Life Giving Spirit (IN) that resurected body and so it can never die, that is the prize of the high calling it is to be able to live in “PHYSICAL BODIES” that never die. That is why we hope that we might attain to “the resurrection that will witness the redemption of “OUR BODIES”. You can not be a living SOUL without a BODY (AND) SPIRIT. You simply will no longer exist as a separate Person without a BODY of YOUR OWN with LIFE GIVING SPIRIT (IN) IT. That is what this whole thing of salvation is all about.

Again for the hundredth time…..> There is no such thing as a “SPIRIT BODY” because Spirits are what is (IN) BODIES. Spirit have NO BODY that is why they are called SPIRITS. Paul said to be absent from the Body is to be present with the LORD, that is true becasue all spirit go back to him who gave it in the first place “GOD” however without a “BODY” that spirit like all Spirit has no “self” consciousness of its own it exists but is not “self” aware God The FATHER himself being the only exception IMO, and even he lives in the bodies of his creation, That is why he considers us “TEMPLES” he can DWELL in , all spirit can do the same they can DWELL IN our BODIES. When a Man dies he has no functioning Body to be aware of anything any linger and unless he is restored a Body and Spirit added back into it he can no longer exist as a Living SOUL. When you lose you flesh consciousness you no long exist as a “LIVING SOUL” . But God preserves our spirit and can resurrect another BODY and add that spirit back into it , Just as he did Jesus' Body, he resurected (IT) and added His spirit back into (IT), that same body Jesus was allowed to take of the tree of Life with that physical body and Lives forever, Just as Adam and Eve could have and never died in there present bodies if GOD would not have prevented them from acquiring it. At least according to GOD they could have “NEVER DIES” had they eaten of the tree of life.

peace and love to you all…………………………………………..gene

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2012,00:07)

Quote (toby @ Jan. 28 2012,06:55) Mikeboll, my answer is perfectly in order.  Jesus is a Spirit Being in Heaven.  He 'became' (your word) a Spirit Being as he entered the Heavenly realm, where his flesh and bone body cannot go. So then he wasn't yet a spirit being when he was raised from the dead, and therefore had no need of a new spiritual body at that time?  In other words, do we agree that Jesus was raised from the dead as a human being, and at that time had a human body made of flesh and bone? Quote (toby @ Jan. 28 2012,06:55) ……what you are trying to get me to say…… I am surprised at how many people dilly-dally around answering direct questions for fear of what “I'm trying to get them to say”.  Ed even started a thread about it – as if asking a question on a scriptural forum should be frowned upon.   If your answers are always nothing but the truth, then no one can “trick” you into saying something untrue, IMO.

Hi Mike,

You still don't get what I've been trying to tell you.
I'm importing this post to the thread you mentioned,
where I will address it for you there. (Link to thread)

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 29 2012,03:31)

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2012,00:03) Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 27 2012,15:59) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 27 2012,10:13) MIke………..That is all you have to do is show us ONE PERSON IN SCRIPTURE THAT HAS EVER SEEN A SPIRIT. It is JUST THAT SIMPLE, Don't give us the garbage of what some “THOUGHT” they saw and use it as a Proof Text that there (ARE) such thing as “SPIRIT BODIES” You have NO PROOF there ARE not from any Scripture. If I say I “THOUGHT” I saw a flying Saucer does that mean there are flying Saucers, can I say I know for a fact I saw one, when no one else can prove they say one either even though they “THOUGHT” they did?  come on Mike this Luke thing is absolute no proof of anything and what Jesus said after that should even more convience you MIKE> peace and love………………………………………….gene Hi Gene, is this what you ask? “And it came to pass, when they were come into Samaria, that Elisha said, LORD, open the eyes of these men, that they may see. And the LORD(YHVH) opened their eyes, and they saw;” (2 Kings 6:20) God bless Ed J Gene, Did you ever address this post? God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org ED J………that does not mean they never had bodies it simply mean that the Lad could  not see them, His eyes were closed to them. And where do you see the Word SPIRIT there it not there. So no point to force the text to say what it is not in fact saying and no need to add two it meaning. That is what to many here do all the time and come up with all kinds of false teachings. IMO peace and love…………………………………………gene

Hi Gene,

Are you suggesting that they were really there,
but everyone was blind to them being there   …except Elisha of course?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2012,04:52)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 28 2012,10:31) ED J………that does not mean they never had bodies it simply mean that the Lad could  not see them, His eyes were closed to them. And then God opened his eyes so that he could see the spirit beings, Gene.  That was Ed's point.

[Ed J]

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2012,08:55)

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 28 2012,15:33) I really don't believe Mike want to post the dictionary definition it would only prove him wrong. Hi Gene, Can you tell us all the DEFINITION of the word “spirit” in Luke 24:37?

[mikeboll64]

Quote (Ed J @ Jan. 29 2012,08:43)

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 29 2012,00:07) Quote (toby @ Jan. 28 2012,06:55) ……what you are trying to get me to say…… I am surprised at how many people dilly-dally around answering direct questions for fear of what “I'm trying to get them to say”.  Ed even started a thread about it – as if asking a question on a scriptural forum should be frowned upon.   If your answers are always nothing but the truth, then no one can “trick” you into saying something untrue, IMO. Hi Mike, You still don't get what I've been trying to tell you. I'm importing this post to the thread you mentioned, where I will address it for you there.

I get it Ed.  You have claimed that I can somehow “trick” someone into saying something that they don't believe is the truth, and then somehow “win” the argument by “tricking” them into saying it my way.

And my point will always remain that if you DIRECTLY answer my questions with nothing BUT the truth, then if somehow I end up “winning”, it will be a case of your truth not aligning with the scriptural truth – and nothing more.

Now, in the other thread, I've repeatedly asked for ANYONE to post a YES or NO question I've EVER asked that could not possibly be answered with a YES or a NO.  And in all this time, NO ONE HAS EVER BEEN ABLE TO DO THAT.

[Ed J]

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 29 2012,10:18)

edj Quote PIERRE, First:  the resolution question was “a question”, not ‘an accusation’. Resolution is ONLY accomplished by or upon a mutual agreement. 1) Angels are “Spirit Beings”. 2) A soul is our Spirit in our Body. 3) NO, because they are living Spirits. 4) Sure, yea, I would think it is so. 5) Huh?   …what do you mean?(MAN IS MADE ;1)SOUL,  2) LIVING BREATH ,3) A BODY. ( A CAR + GAS + THE DRIVER ) God bless Ed J (Joshua 22:34) http://www.holycitybiblecode.org I say;;(3)do they HAVE a living spirit (not are)? ( WHAT YOU MEAN THAT THEIR ;SPIRIT GIVEN BY GOD LIKE TO ALL CREATURES IS THE SAME THAN THEIR SOUL ?) (4)do spirit beings are independent of each other ?? (5)if you say yes to those questions then they also have a body in witch all tree item are in. MY ANSWERS OR QUESTION ARE IN CAPITAL AND BETWEEN BRACKETS Pierre

PIERRE,

Define what you mean by “living spirit”?

Quote

WHAT YOU MEAN THAT THEIR ;SPIRIT GIVEN BY GOD LIKE TO ALL CREATURES IS THE SAME THAN THEIR SOUL

       Huh?

God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.org

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