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Can someone tell me what scripture(s) states that Jesus changed from body to spirit during the Ascension?
What about John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” What kind of body did he have at this time? Obviously it could be held onto.
Thanks – Wm
Seekingtruth………….There is no scripture that says Jesus changed into anything other then his resurected body, No exists. Jesus is not a Spirit Body at all He is a Physical Man with Spirit back into him and he is once again a LIVING SOUL, He once was dead his Spirit was out of any body, But Now he is alive with a Physical Body with Spirit back into It and Now He is once again a LIVING SOUL> He is alive now forever more. Just that simple no need to make a “MYSTERY” out of this. If we just believe Jesus' words that should clear it all up. IMO
peace and love to you and yours………………………………………….gene
Hi ,
wasn't Moses and Elijah in their bodily form when Jesus spoke with them in an transfigured state. ? Matt 17:2Happyman……..Yes there is no resurrection in scripture that does not contain a Physical body. Some think a physical body can not exist in heaven , but was not Elijah taken into the heavens with a physical Body, did not the three cast into the furnace at the command of King Nebuchadnezzar With physical bodies stay alive and come out of that furnace with physical bodies, was not Phillip after talking and baptizing the servant Vanish with a physical body, did Jesus not walk on water and Peter with Physical bodies, Could not Adam have lived for ever with his Physical Body if he had eaten from the tree of life in the Garden? According to God he could have and that was with his Physical Body i might add.
What people get confused with is where it say “FLESH and BLOOD cannot enter the kingdom of heaven” so they think that means we can not go there unless we have a different realm of existence, but that simply is not true . That scripture was just saying , that the kingdom of heaven is a SPIRITUAL KINGDOM, and it must be perceived by the Spirit (INTELLECT) it is not a Physical Kingdom a Flesh body is just a physical body it can not go into any Spiritual realm , it is the Mind (IN) that Body that goes into the Heaven (higher realm) it's Spirit (INTELLECT). a Body of flesh can not do that, but the Spirit (intellect)(IN) that body can. This also goes along with where Jesus said ” the kingdom of God comes not with observation
Luk 17:21 Neither shall they say, lo here or, lo there (as many here do) for, behold, the Kingdom of God (IS) WITHIN YOU.
The kingdom is not any kind of Body , it is a matter of Spirit (intellect) of GOD. and yes it can be in us wherever we are even in this Flesh bodies, and physical bodies can exist forever in the kingdom of GOD both here or anywhere if life giving Spirit is existing (IN) it.
These Bodies must be redeemed as it says ” for we look for the resurrection that will wittiness the redemption of “OUR BODIES”>Why does it say the “REDEMPTION OF OUR BODIES” Why redeem them at all, if they are not needed A spirit without a Body goes about in “ARID” PLACES LOOKING FOR REST. Spirits (intellects) are useless to anyone outside of a body. Our bodies are the containers for Spirits.
WE must be born “AGAIN” like before with “WATER (AND) SPIRIT” Not wit SPIRIT ONLY< but with WATER (AND) SPIRIT, that means just as were are now we are 3/4 WATER NOW, and WE have SPIRIT (IN) these BODIES, , IT Must all Happen "AGAIN" According to Jesus . IMO
Hope this helped brother.
peace and love to you and yours ……………………..gene
Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 18 2012,13:59) Can someone tell me what scripture(s) states that Jesus changed from body to spirit during the Ascension? What about John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” What kind of body did he have at this time? Obviously it could be held onto.
Thanks – Wm
Hi Wm, perhaps this is the verse you are looking for…“So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there
is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the
last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual,
but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.” (1Cor.15:42-46)God bless
Ed J (Joshua 22:34)
http://www.holycitybiblecode.orgQuote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 18 2012,20:59) Can someone tell me what scripture(s) states that Jesus changed from body to spirit during the Ascension? What about John 20:17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’” What kind of body did he have at this time? Obviously it could be held onto.
Thanks – Wm
williamhow is it that your understanding in scriptures did not show you the answer to your question??
how many angels have come to earth ??
how many man flesh and bone do scriptures says that go up and down from heaven ??
how is it that men can not see God and live ;why ? is it not because men his flesh ,??
so how would it be possible then that some of us (144k) will be in heaven ? is Paul not saying that our body have to be changed into a spiritual (spirit) body so it can stand in the presence of God ??
and so it is with Christ ;he existed in the form of God (spirit )and staid with us then return but not in the form of a man what is inferiority to angels ,is not scriptures says that he took his glory back that he had prior to him coming to fulfill,his fathers will ?yes and so became a spirit again.
Pierre
Hi all.
Come on, common sense.
When was the last time that you looked up into the night sky and saw spirited bodies 'floating around' up there? Hahaha, I never have.
Spirit is Incorporeal. This is common knowledge.
That's why it's called 'Invisible'. (Invisible means that it cannot be seen).Spirit is like the wind, it blows where it will. You do not know where is coming from or where it is going to.
Jesus said 'Touch me and see – a Spirit does NOT HAVE flesh and bone like you see me having” (Include into that: Ears and Eyes, A Heart, Etc – all flesh and bone) – and blood which cannot inherit the kingdom of God!
So – in answer to the thread topic question: Do Spirits have Bodies? No!
Obviously though Spirit Beings can CHANGE when they come down here, such as the Angels, when they are appearing to Man.
What is a Body?
There are all types of Bodies.
Humans have their own Bodies.
Fish have their own Bodies – as adapted to the water.
Birds have theirs – as adapted to the air and flying.
Plants have their own 'Bodies'.
There are 'Bodies' up high – such as the Moon and the Stars.All 'Bodies' are different.
From Scripture we know that Angels CAN have “Bodies” too, while they are appearing to people on Earth.
But they can just as easily change back to (Incorporeal) Spirit.
(Which is why we cannot usually see them!)Jesus was resurrected into a new TYPE of Body. First of His kind..
I hope that might help somewhere – with the confusion??
Maybe – maybe not??Afterthought:
I think this is an important topic, when you REALLY come to think about it, because the battle that we are in, in these last days, is a spiritual battle.
2nd Thes 2, states that when the Restrainer (The Holy Spirit) wil be 'Taken out of the way', and the Man of Sin will be revealed in the 'Temple of God'. So what is the 'Temple of God'? Is it made of Stone? The Bible clearly states that the Temple is now the Body – each INDIVIDUAL BODY, and the 'Falling away' is of believers, who are sent a Delusion, and will believe a lie (The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of truth).
So who is 'the Man of Sin'? a sinfull Body perhaps?
Strange topic? Yes, but nonetheless important I believe in regards to these last days.
God bless.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 18 2012,08:30) Quote (toby @ Jan. 17 2012,15:06) If you agree that Jesus was in a Flesh and Bone body, then you cannot also say that he entered Heaven in that same body. Only his Spirit can enter Heaven. Therefore it must have been shed as he ascended upward (through the cloud) and out of sight of the Disciples.
Or transformed in the twinkling of an eye. (Phil 3:21)
Hi Mikeboll.You say …consider that… Jesus transformed in the twinkling of an eye.
From what did Jesus 'transform from' and transform to' – in your opinion?
The Scripture states that Jesus was 'Raised up in a Glorified Body'.
If it means 'Raised up from the Dead into a Glorified Body', then that was the body that he showed to his disciples.
If you say that it means 'Raised up to Heaven', then that makes no sense.
Jesus was still 'RAISED UPwards' in his Physical Flesh and Bone body.I think you may be confusing the verses that applied to Jesus being raised from the dead in a glorified body, with the verses that state that the believers of Christ will be 'Raised up in the Air and meet with the Lord' – and be changed in the twinkling of an eye.
'That which is born of the Spirit can see and understand the Spirit.
That which is born of the Flesh can neither see not understand the Spirit'
'The Spirit is like the Wind, it blows where it wills – and no man knows from where it comes nor to where it goes'How is Jesus firstborn of the dead as a Spirit – when the Spirit is never 'Dead'? What then is it that 'Dies' and is 'Reborn' in Spirit? Well, it is the Body that dies, therefore it is also the 'Body' that is 'Raised Up' from death 'In the Spirit'.
What does this 'Born of the Spirit' mean? Well, as a Fleshly being, the Spirit in the being, is restricted by the Flesh. When the being is reborn of the Spirit, the Spirit of the being, although in a Flesh and Bone body, is no longer restricted and can perform acts and actions previously deemed impossible. This is just as Jesus stated many many times, to those who believed, that they could do nothing to help themselves. 'Faith', he said, 'Faith as small as the tiniest seed (Mustard grain) could move mountains'. In other words, the 'Spirit' within you, could do great works if you did not allow the 'Flesh' to restrain it.
Gene, what do you think when you read scripture verses like Judges 13:
And God listened to the voice of Mano'ah, and the angel of God came again to the woman as she sat in the field; but Mano'ah her husband was not with her. And the woman ran in haste and told her husband, “Behold, the man who came to me the other day has appeared to me.” And Mano'ah arose and went after his wife, and came to the man and said to him, “Are you the man who spoke to this woman?” And he said, “I am.”
Gene, these and other such verses state that the 'Angel Appeared' in the 'Form of a Man' .
Furthermore, here, Manoah even wanted to cook food (A normal custom to welcome an honoured stranger) for the Angel, thinking the 'Angel' was really was a 'Man'. Later, the 'Angel' disappeared back to Heaven 'In the Flames of the Fire'.
Mano'ah said to the angel of the LORD, “Pray, let us detain you, and prepare a kid for you.”And the angel of the LORD said to Mano'ah, “If you detain me, I will not eat of your food; but if you make ready a burnt offering, then offer it to the LORD.” (For Mano'ah did not know that he was the angel of the LORD.) And Mano'ah said to the angel of the LORD, “What is your name, so that, when your words come true, we may honor you?” And the angel of the LORD said to him, “Why do you ask my name, seeing it is wonderful?” So Mano'ah took the kid with the cereal offering, and offered it upon the rock to the LORD, to him who works wonders. And when the flame went up toward heaven from the altar, the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar while Mano'ah and his wife looked on; and they fell on their faces to the ground. The angel of the LORD appeared no more to Mano'ah and to his wife. Then Mano'ah knew that he was the angel of the LORD.
Quote (toby @ Jan. 17 2012,20:13) If the Soul is to be clothed in the new glorious body, then what is it presently clothed in – Mortal Flesh, maybe?
So what is the new 'clothes' – Immortal Flesh, maybe?
Flesh cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. So “immortal flesh” will not work here.Other than that, I don't see where you actually ADDRESSED any scripture or point that I posted.
Quote (toby @ Jan. 18 2012,15:47) From what did Jesus 'transform from' and transform to' – in your opinion?
FROM: The lowly flesh body he dwelt in while on earth, and was subsequently raised from the dead in.TO: The glorious NEW body that Paul speaks about in Phil 3:21.
Jesus WAS flesh. Jesus is NOW a life-giving SPIRIT. Spirits don't have flesh and bone, remember?
Quote (toby @ Jan. 18 2012,15:47) The Scripture states that Jesus was 'Raised up in a Glorified Body'.
To which scripture do you refer?Quote (seekingtruth @ Jan. 17 2012,20:59) Can someone tell me what scripture(s) states that Jesus changed from body to spirit during the Ascension? Thanks – Wm
Hi Wm,Scripture says that Jesus was made of flesh and bone after the resurrection. Scripture says that flesh cannot inherit God's Kingdom. Scripture says that Jesus BECAME a life-giving spirit. Scripture says that Jesus has a new, glorious body. Scripture says that those of the earth have natural bodies, while those of heaven have spiritual bodies. Scripture speaks of some of the elect not even tasting death, but “being changed”, in the twinkling of an eye for their life in heaven. (Paul calls it “transformed” in Phil 3:21)
If you consider that Jesus WAS flesh after his resurrection, but cannot be flesh any longer in heaven, then it becomes clear that a change occurred.
Toby thinks the change was that Jesus shed his body all together. I don't think that aligns with many other scriptures, and therefore I understand that the body of Jesus was changed in the twinkling of an eye upon his ascension to a place where he wouldn't be able to retain his flesh body.
(If you want the actual verses I mentioned above, hit me up.)
peace,
mikeQuote (thehappyman @ Jan. 17 2012,22:08) Hi ,
wasn't Moses and Elijah in their bodily form when Jesus spoke with them in an transfigured state. ? Matt 17:2
I assume they had bodies, for the men recognized them for who they were. (How they knew what these two men looked like on earth, I don't know.)But does having a body mean it has to be a flesh one?
That, my friend, is what this thread is all about.
Quote (shimmer @ Jan. 18 2012,15:00) Obviously though Spirit Beings can CHANGE when they come down here, such as the Angels, when they are appearing to Man.
We've heard this all before, Shimmer. But with no scripture to support it.Consider that when some of the angels mated with human women, their offspring were something OTHER THAN human beings. (See the Book of Enoch for a more detailed account.) If the angels had manifested human bodies, then those human bodies would have contained human sperm.
How would human sperm and human eggs bring forth Nephilim instead of regular old human beings?
Mikeboll wrote:
Quote Jesus WAS flesh. Jesus is NOW a life-giving SPIRIT. Spirits don't have flesh and bone, remember?
Mike,You are correct that spirits do not have flesh and bones. But they have bodily shape. Jesus said of His Father,
“You have neither heard His voice at any time nor seen His form” (shape, KJV).
Everything must have shape and is therefore body.
The assertion “a spirit does not have flesh and bones” is not equal to the assertion “a spirit does not have a body.”
Jesus was not denying that a spirit is a body of some kind.
Jack
I whole-heartedly agree with that statement, Jack. And I have been scripturally supporting that statement for 442 pages now.
I've even used the scripture you quoted.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2012,10:14) I whole-heartedly agree with that statement, Jack. And I have been scripturally supporting that statement for 442 pages now. I've even used the scripture you quoted.
Cool!
Mike.
You are making it so complicated.
Firstly, Jesus was a Jew, and He came to His own.
He spoke as a Jew, with Jewish understanding.You have to go back and understand the Jewish way of thinking, to understand a lot of the Scriptures, Mike. I think that the Jews would have had a Good understanding of 'God' and 'Spirited beings' Incorporeality. They would have known what Jesus was meaning, when He told them what He did. Otherwise, He would have corrected them on their misunderstanding of 'God and Spirits' Incorporeality, but He didn't. Instead, He affirmed to them that they had 'Never heard God – nor seen His form'. But there He was among them, the Son of God, the closest that they could ever be to 'Seeing God' (Emmanuel) – Unlike the earlier visitations of Angels and Messengers of God who appeared and disappeared at random.
So the verses which you gave Mike, were not a statement about Angels etc having Bodies, or not, at all.
Again, people seem to be making statements here, contrary to the what the Jews understanding of Incorporeality was and is, and also, there are plenty of Scriptural verses to show that Angels can 'Appear in the form of Man – whilst on Earth'. This isn't to say that Angels appear 'Everywhere all of the time in the form of man' is it? Otherwise we would be seeing them everywhere, but we don't. Just as we don't see them in the Heavens, do we? And as people have stated, there are different Spirits in which we can have – all shared amongst different people. How could that BE a Body or a Form? Rather, the Spirit is IN a Body and a Form – a real Human Being – lots of Human Beings – 'all at different places, and all at the same time'. And Jesus said that there would come a time, when true worshippers would worship God “Neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem” but EVERYWHERE in Spirit and in truth – as God is Spirit and desires such like to worship Him.
Here is a little bit on the Jewish view:
Based on a series of lectures by Rabbi Yaakov Weinberg, of blessed memory.
(On The third principle of Judaism)“We believe that this Oneness is neither a body nor a bodily force, nor is He subject to any bodily characteristics — movement, rest, or dwelling — be they inherent or by chance. Therefore the Sages repudiated [the possibility of any] cohesion or separation [concerning Him], as they said: “Above there is no sitting, standing, division, or ‘cohesion'” (a usage based on Isaiah 11:14). As the prophet said: “Who is comparable to the Almighty…?” For if He had a body, He could be compared to other bodies. All the corporeal terms used in the Scriptures to describe Him — such as walking, standing, sitting, speaking etc. — are metaphorical. As the Sages have said: “The Torah speaks in the language of man.” This is the third Principle, as affirmed by the verse (Deuteronomy 4:15) “You have not seen any image,” that is to say, you cannot conceive of Him as having any form because, as stated, He is neither a body nor a bodily force.”
“Jews hold that G-d is One (“Hear, O Israel, the Lord is our G-d, the Lord is One!”—Shema Israel, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Ehod!), G-d is not a Trinity; G-d is formless and will never assume form (as in the person of Jesus).”
http://www.aish.com/sp/ph/48924072.html
http://www.aish.com/
http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/Judaism.htmlSo now that you know a 'teeny bit' about Jewish Belief, as you can see from the above shorter statement, the stone that the builders rejected was Jesus. (Solid Form BTW).
Food for thought!
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 19 2012,11:47) Consider that when some of the angels mated with human women, their offspring were something OTHER THAN human beings. (See the Book of Enoch for a more detailed account.) If the angels had manifested human bodies, then those human bodies would have contained human sperm. How would human sperm and human eggs bring forth Nephilim instead of regular old human beings?
Mike, very little is known Scripturally about these Nephilim, unless you want to go into 'Conspiracy Theories' Etc. I don't know enough about the Book of Enoch to comment, Mike. I have read it, but it was years ago. I hardly remember any of it.
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