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Terra,
Where does Sriptures say that Angels have Spiritual bodies…You just made that up….
Scriptures does not say that anywhere… It is an aberation because you WANT to think that, but no where does it say that.
In fact, Scriptures says otherwise.
Even Mikeboll stressing at misinterpreting Scriptures, is saying against him.
Paul highlights the 'bodies'..see Mike changing views:
first he says that 'Celestial bodies' are Angels….but when it is pointed out that 'Celestial' is appertaining to 'Visible Galactic Space' and 'the Sun, Moon and Stars', he doesn't apologise but simply moves on to the next verse where it says, 'Dies a fleshly body, reborn a Spiritual body'Terra, where does it say 'Angel' in those verses?
It is talking of Mankind…man has a fleshly body….but the Godly man, when he dies, will be reborn with a Spiritual body.
Terra, are Angels reborn…?
Terra, did Angels have fleshly bodies such that when they die…they are cleansed of Sin and raised with a Spiritual body?
No. Terra, Angels with sin, are demons, and go straight to death in the lake of fire after their judgement. No Angels are 'forgiven'. They cannot be forgiven.So, the risen 'Spiritual body'. Terra, who has died in a fleshly body and raised a Spiritual body?
Terra, only Jesus Christ…he has BOTH a Spirit AND a physical body… The 'Spiritual Body'.And how many times have i written this. Terra, please don't post like i am ignorant of these things.
So Terra, who has, or will have, Spiritual bodies? Is it not then, those of Mankind who also becomes like Christ?
So, if Jesus is the only one with a Spiritual body so far, how is it you and Mike are saying that Angels also have Spiritual Bodies….
And Terra, where does it say that in Sriptures..? Nowhere….!And Mikeboll,
I've never seen a more abnoxious poster than yourself. You screw around with words so much you neither know if you are coming or going.
You are a blatant idiot.
Paul says 'Celestial bodies' that are Sun, moon and stars.
And earthly bodies, that are man, animals, fish and birds.
What are you saying…what drives you to such idiotic misrepresentations of perfectly clear text.
There is nothing that is spoken of as Angelic Spiritual bodies in all of that extract.
The reference to 'Spiritual bodies' is as i wrote to your brother in dillusional arms, Terrarica.[Godly] Man, in earthly body, will be [cleansed of sin and] raised in a glorious 'Spirit Body'…greater than the Angels, for Angels are only Spirit, but risen, godly man, will be both Spirit and flesh, existing as desired in Heaven as Spirit AND in recogniseable fleshly bodies when in earth.
Angels can only materialise temporary nondescript fleshly bodies when allowed to by God.Mike, right now, you looking like a right 'eejit', as the Irish say.
Quote (mikeboll64 @ Dec. 05 2010,14:18) Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 05 2010,13:24) Mike……….There is no such thing as a SPIRIT BODY There is Spiirt (IN) BODIES. A spirit does not have a body it is what is (IN) a body guiding it and giving it intellects. No Angel has a SPIRIT BODY He has a BODY with SPIRIT (IN) IT Just as we DO. You are not understanding what SPIRIT really IS. IMO peace and love……………………………….gene
Gene,This is the last time brother. I'm tired of you popping in over and over and over posting the same crap, but when I answer your crap, you ignore the post.
Angels ARE ministering SPIRITS! Paul says those in heaven have SPIRITUAL BODIES. That's all there is to it Gene. Either address these SCRIPTURAL facts, or pipe down. I don't need to read your same old tired stuff over and over when you have NOTHING to support it except your opinion.
peace and love,
mike
Mike……..I have posted scripture to support what i am saying , you just don't seem to have the ability to understand them. So if anyone here is tossing out CRAP it is you. You can understand that Paul address the flesh in terms of Fleshly (THINKING) and the Spirit Body is in terms of the Spiritual (THINKING) , It is the SPIRIT that Leads the Body and there is a Carnal SPIRIT (intellect) and there is a Body that is Scriptural thinking from above. These are consider as types of Bodies by Paul.But as far as a Body goes , no one will not exist without one because it takes a body to be a (LIVING Soul). it says ” DO NOT FEAR HIM WHO CAN DESTROY THE BODY AND DO NOTHING ELSE AFTER THAT, BUT FEAR HIM WHO CAN DESTROY (BOTH) (two things) BODY AND SOUL “, WHERE? IN HELL, WHICH IS SIMPLY The GRAVE. AGAIN, “WHEN A MAN DIES HIS THOUGHTS (PARISH)” And if your thought PARISH so DO YOU, He will remain in that state of corruption forever, “FOR THE DEAD KNOW NOTHING” and will remain that way for ever unless GOD Raises up a BODY and add Spirit Back into it.
Therefore he say A BODY I HAVE PREPARED FOR YOU> “EVERY HAIR ON YOUR HEAD IS NUMBERED , Jesus told his disciples , why ? because their DNA is Preserved for what reason? To recreate a New Body that shall never did and add Spirit back into it. and They will become a Living Soul again.
Just as He did Jesus and according to Jesus that was a FLESH AND BONE BODY HE HAD> And Jesus also plainly said “A SPIRIT DOES NO HAVE FLESH AND BONE AS YOU SEE I HAVE> And that body went through a door, ascended up into the heavens and will come back again also. That alone should answer you ignorant understanding. So where is you scripture that prove otherwise > Or should i say where is your Crap (as you say), that proves otherwise. My advice to you should you not want to engage in my posts is to simply keep your nose out of them then. Now is that enough scripture support for you and don't give us this scripture support “CRAP” when we have given man many scriptures to support our positions. You just Ignore them and mouth off where is scripture as if you give them and we don't , Mike You are indeed a Joke at Best it appears, I am beginning to see JA and Martins Points about you.
peace and love………………………gene
Terricca…………there is NO SCRIPTURE that say Angle have “SPIRIT BODIES” as JA Has Said. God makes their SPIRITS (intellects) (IN) there Bodies and sends them out to minister.
peace and love…………………………………………gene
Mike,
You like puzzles, don't you?
Get several thousand people in a stadium.
Put a tree in the middle of the pitch.Can everyone in that stadium see that tree?
Yes.
why?Because the 'image' of the tree is sent out in all directions at the same time.
Everyone in the stadium gets a very slightly different version image of the tree (Ok, it doesn't have to be a tree).
Noone sees the the same image,…unless they are standing in exactly the same place and visual height as another person. Not possible because we are physical and occupy space and cannot occupy the same space at the same time…this is a body….Now, get a webCam pointing atthe tree from any angle and position. And let everyone in the stadium wear video glasses with the image from the webCam being shown on the lense.
What do they see? Exactly the same image as everyone else….
And they can move whereever they like and the image is still the same…as the webCam moves, so the image they all see moves to reflect the same.
Mike, this is Spirit….it is 'everywhere',Now, get everyone in the stadium to touch the tree….all at the same time…can it be done?
No.
Why?Because the tree is physical. It can only be touched by those in near vicinity. And they need to move to the tree to touch it …when SPACE becomes available.
Mike, this is Body.
In one place at a time, occupying physical Space.What Space does the image, on the webCam or direct through the eyes of the people there, occupy? None…
What's that you say?…
No Mike, the 'image' is carried on the light rays…it is the light rays that occupy ethereal space. The image is the energy level, the power changes in the light rays that collectively 'create' the final image in the 'body' of the eye (…actually, it's the mind of the viewer, but this is going a little too much into dynamic optical physics and Biology mixed with Chemistry and Cognitive studies….things you have no idea about…)Now here is the twist…
You stand in the middle of the pitch.
Who can see you at the same time? Everyone.
Can you see everyone at the same time? No.
Oh, so the people in the stadium have bodies…
Ok, they leave, everyone of them…………….
Now, only you and the webCam. Remember that?
The people are outside the stadium, anywhere they wanna be. But, they are wearing their video glasses…
Can they see you? Yes. Anywhere they go, anytime they want to, they can see you, everyone of them. Yet you cannot see any of them.And anyone one of them can come into the stadium at any time….materialise (Come out of no where, any of the 'Legion' of entrances in the stadium) and be with you…and leave just as simply…
Mike, you, the body, can only remain in the same 'Space' being sustained by being brought food, heat, light, drink, comforts, etc.The Spirits, can come and go as they please, into your 'world' and out of your world, and no matter where they are in their 'invisible to you' eyes, they can see you and speak to you through the webCam microphone…extend the scenario….
When they are out of the stadium, they are, effectively, bodyless.
Have you heard the term 'Disembodied voice'?
And Mike, everyone of those legions of people can come into your 'head' through the mindhelmet you are wearing….hear their voices all at the same time….
Mike, your body is filled with a legion of Spirits and yet your body is not changed…
Now, Mike…. !!! SNAP !!!! WAKE UP !!!
Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Dec. 06 2010,00:57) Mike……..I have posted scripture to support what i am saying , you just don't seem to have the ability to understand them.
Listen very closely to the words of scripture Gene and JA.Hebrews 1:14
Are not all angels ministering spirits sent to serve those who will inherit salvation?Can either of you SCRIPTURALLY tell me that angels are not spirits?
1 Cor 15 NIV
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
Now let's break this down for you guys, okay?
1. (15:42) In the resurrection of the dead, a body that was sown perishable will be raised imperishable. This is talking about people's bodies here, not the sun, moon and stars, right?
2. (15:43) A person's body that was sown with dishonor will be raised in glory. A person's body that was sown in weakness will be raised in glory.
3. (15:44) A person's natural body will be raised a SPIRITUAL BODY. For it's common sense that if there is a natural body for those of earth, there is also a spiritual body for those of heaven.
4. (15:45) Adam became a living being, Jesus became a life-giving SPIRIT. (Are you listening to the scripture, guys?)
5. (15:46) Our spiritual bodies do not come first, but the natural bodies. THEN LATER, the spiritual bodies.
6. (15:47) Now I'm not sure if Paul is referring to Adam and Jesus here, or if he's saying that we are first made of the elements of earth, and then later made of the elements of heaven. But if we follow the context, he is nevertheless still talking about how the bodies of those of earth differ from the bodies of those of heaven.
7. (15:48) This just emphasizes that those of earth have one type of body, while those of heaven have a different type.
8. (15:49) And just as we have born the image of those on earth (had eartly bodies), we will bear the image of those of heaven (have spiritual bodies).
9. (15:50) Flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, so Jesus is NOT still flesh and blood Gene. Nor does the perishable (body of 15:42) inherit the imperishable (body of 15:42).
10. (15:51) Not all will sleep in death, but all will be changed.
11. (15:52) At the last trumpet, those dead in Christ will be raised with imperishable bodies, and those alive in Christ at that time will have their perishable bodies changed into imperishable bodies in the twinkling of an eye.
12. (15:53) Those who had perishable bodies will “clothe themselves” with imperishable ones. Those with mortal bodies will be given immortal ones.
Now all you really have to understand is point #3 guys. That's the bottom line of all of this.
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 06 2010,06:56) Terra,
Where does Sriptures say that Angels have Spiritual bodies…You just made that up….
Scriptures does not say that anywhere… It is an aberation because you WANT to think that, but no where does it say that.
In fact, Scriptures says otherwise.
Even Mikeboll stressing at misinterpreting Scriptures, is saying against him.
Paul highlights the 'bodies'..see Mike changing views:
first he says that 'Celestial bodies' are Angels….but when it is pointed out that 'Celestial' is appertaining to 'Visible Galactic Space' and 'the Sun, Moon and Stars', he doesn't apologise but simply moves on to the next verse where it says, 'Dies a fleshly body, reborn a Spiritual body'Terra, where does it say 'Angel' in those verses?
It is talking of Mankind…man has a fleshly body….but the Godly man, when he dies, will be reborn with a Spiritual body.
Terra, are Angels reborn…?
Terra, did Angels have fleshly bodies such that when they die…they are cleansed of Sin and raised with a Spiritual body?
No. Terra, Angels with sin, are demons, and go straight to death in the lake of fire after their judgement. No Angels are 'forgiven'. They cannot be forgiven.So, the risen 'Spiritual body'. Terra, who has died in a fleshly body and raised a Spiritual body?
Terra, only Jesus Christ…he has BOTH a Spirit AND a physical body… The 'Spiritual Body'.And how many times have i written this. Terra, please don't post like i am ignorant of these things.
So Terra, who has, or will have, Spiritual bodies? Is it not then, those of Mankind who also becomes like Christ?
So, if Jesus is the only one with a Spiritual body so far, how is it you and Mike are saying that Angels also have Spiritual Bodies….
And Terra, where does it say that in Sriptures..? Nowhere….!
JAthis is a copy of the first quote;;mikeboll64
Group: Mods
Posts: 3976
Joined: Feb. 2010 Posted: Nov. 15 2010,12:19——————————————————————————–
JA – from the “Was Jesus Always Superior” thread:Quote
Bodies…Spirits do not have bodies…what's with you?1 Corinthians 15 NIV
35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
What can we learn from this passage JA?
1. Those who are resurrected WILL HAVE BODIES.
2. There are earthly BODIES and there are heavenly BODIES.
3. Our earthly BODIES are perishable, but not the SPRITUAL BODIES some of us will be given.
4. The body that is sown is a natural BODY, but it will be raised a spiritual BODY.
5. And finally, IF THERE IS A NATURAL BODY, THERE IS ALSO A SPIRITUAL BODY.Please continue your thought in light of this scripture JA. Tell us all how “spirits” don't have “bodies” again.
mike
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Pierrewho long would you keep this topic going on the same verses and refuse to accept scriptures.???
Hi All,
I have decided to go back to not even reading JA's posts that contain derogatory personal attacks. I have tried taking the “higher road”. I have tried fighting fire with fire. The first does nothing to rebuke JA's poor behavior, and the latter makes me feel “dirty” and “wrong”.
I remember in the “Does God Procreate” thread, when he was being especially abusive a few months ago, I just ignored any post of his that contained personal attacks and abusive words. And it worked. He apparently got lonely and started posting respectfully.
I will use that tactic again and urge you all to do so also. Let's show him that we will not tolerate the hateful insults he so often posts. As soon as I read a personal insult in one of his posts, I will move on to other posts and ignore that post altogether.
And as a moderator, I will continue to block him for abusive language when his posts are reported, as I did today. Report the abuse, and I will act on it. Thank you all.
peace and love,
mikeMikeboll,
Have you completely doolally trying to refute natural words.
Where on earth have I said that Angels are not Spirits.
I think you are a very sick person.
Both you and Terra have been touched by dillusion.
Mike, you have clearly fallen over the edge.
You cannot even read clear Scriptures in your desparation.
Paul talks of different bodies, of earth and of the sky. And still you impress your foolishness claiming that he speaks of 'heaven'. You lie.
You know very well that the words are 'Celestial', and 'Terrestial'.
If you don't understand something as simple as 'Celestial' and 'Terrestial' you should not be trying to discuss, let alone debate with a worm.
Terrestial Bodies: Man, Animals, Birds, Fish.
Celestial Bodies: Moon, Sun, Stars.Then, Paul goes on to extend body of man by saying: The body of man will be changed into a Spiritual body.
What is there here that shows Angels having bodies?
Paul never even mentions Angels nor Spirits as having bodies.He mentions that Man, after he dies, will be raised to a Spiritual Body.
Man, Mike, Man… Just as Jesus is Man and died and was raised to a Spiritual Body.
The FIRST, Mike, the first Man, the new creation of God, the Spiritual Man, of whom there will be many after, in the fashion of Christ, Sons of God, begotten Sons of God, brothers of Christ, Heirs to God.See Mike, the strands are coming together…
What has been learnt elsewhere, now brought to bear in other threads…reenforcing the Word of God.Now, all you need to do is believe. Acquiesce, Mike, give in gracefully and believe…Thomas, see the truth here, touch the words of Scripture, for lies cannot be sustained against Scriptural truth.
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 06 2010,05:16) for lies cannot be sustained against Scriptural truth.
You are correct sir. That's why only you and the non-preexisters think the angels weren't created through Jesus on this site JA. And that is why only you think angels don't have bodies on this site JA.Are we ALL wrong? Are YOU the ONLY one who understands it all? You stand alone in your delusion my friend.
Paul says it's basic common sense that if God gives a body to everything as it pleases Him, then it stands to reason that those of earth have earthly bodies and those of heaven have heavenly bodies.
Jesus says some of us will be changed and become like the angels. Paul says flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. You say that only those who are raised to heaven will have spiritual bodies. Yet Paul says Jesus IS a life-giving SPIRIT. And you say Jesus DOES have a spiritual body.
Angels are also SPIRITS JA, why don't they need a spiritual body?Why would those of us who are raised to the heavens need spiritual bodies, but angels who reside there don't?
You're not really thinking it through brother.
And I am now done with ANY of your posts that include harsh words and insults and belittlement. Either leave that stuff out of the post, or don't expect an answer from me. And I hope others join in too.
peace and love,
mikeQuote (JustAskin @ Dec. 06 2010,12:16) Mikeboll, Have you completely doolally trying to refute natural words.
Where on earth have I said that Angels are not Spirits.
I think you are a very sick person.
Both you and Terra have been touched by dillusion.
Mike, you have clearly fallen over the edge.
You cannot even read clear Scriptures in your desparation.
Paul talks of different bodies, of earth and of the sky. And still you impress your foolishness claiming that he speaks of 'heaven'. You lie.
You know very well that the words are 'Celestial', and 'Terrestial'.
If you don't understand something as simple as 'Celestial' and 'Terrestial' you should not be trying to discuss, let alone debate with a worm.
Terrestial Bodies: Man, Animals, Birds, Fish.
Celestial Bodies: Moon, Sun, Stars.Then, Paul goes on to extend body of man by saying: The body of man will be changed into a Spiritual body.
What is there here that shows Angels having bodies?
Paul never even mentions Angels nor Spirits as having bodies.He mentions that Man, after he dies, will be raised to a Spiritual Body.
Man, Mike, Man… Just as Jesus is Man and died and was raised to a Spiritual Body.
The FIRST, Mike, the first Man, the new creation of God, the Spiritual Man, of whom there will be many after, in the fashion of Christ, Sons of God, begotten Sons of God, brothers of Christ, Heirs to God.See Mike, the strands are coming together…
What has been learnt elsewhere, now brought to bear in other threads…reenforcing the Word of God.Now, all you need to do is believe. Acquiesce, Mike, give in gracefully and believe…Thomas, see the truth here, touch the words of Scripture, for lies cannot be sustained against Scriptural truth.
JAstop playing with half truths,you do not show any understanding of scriptures,sad,a year ago it seems you have some,now today it seems you lost it all,
if this is all you have to show your ignorance to the scriptures,well then learn,
Mike is right with what he says,
Pierre
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 06 2010,02:07) Paul says 'Celestial bodies' that are Sun, moon and stars. And earthly bodies, that are man, animals, fish and birds.
Barnes' Notes on the BibleThere are also celestial bodies – The planets; the stars; the host of heaven; Corinthians 15:41.
And bodies terrestrial – On earth; earthly. He refers here to the bodies of human beings, beasts, birds, etc.; perhaps, also, of trees and vegetables. The sense is, “There is a great variety of bodies. Look upon the heavens, and see the splendor of the sun, the moon, and the stars. And then look upon the earth, and see the bodies there – the bodies of people, and brutes, and insects. You see here two entire classes of bodies. You see how they differ. Can it be deemed strange if there should be a difference between our bodies when on earth and when in heaven? Do we not, in fact, see a vast difference between what strikes our eye here on earth and in the sky? And why should we deem it strange that between bodies adapted to live here and bodies adapted to live in heaven, there should be a difference, like that which is seen between the objects which appear on earth and those which appear in the sky?” The argument is a popular one; but it is striking, and meets the object which he has in view.
The glory of the celestial is one – The splendor, beauty, dignity, magnificence of the heavenly bodies differs much from those on earth. That is one thing; the beauty of earthly objects is another and a different thing. Beautiful as may be the human frame; beautiful as may be the plumage of birds; beautiful as may be the flower, the fossil, the mineral, the topaz, or the diamond; yet they differ from the heavenly bodies, and are not to be compared with them. Why should we deem it strange that there may be a similar difference between the body as adapted to its residence here and as adapted to its residence in heaven?
—————————
Vincent's Word StudiesCelestial bodies (σώματα ἐπουράνια)
Not angels. For the meaning of σώματα bodies is not limited to animate beings (see 1 Corinthians 15:37, 1 Corinthians 15:38), and “the scoffers who refused to believe in the existence of the future body would hardly have admitted the existence of angelic bodies. To convince them on their own ground, the apostle appeals exclusively to what is seen” (Godet). The sense is, the heavenly bodies, described more specifically in 1 Corinthians 15:41.
Bodies terrestrial (σώματα ἐπίγεια)
Looking back to 1 Corinthians 15:39, and grouping men, beasts, birds, fishes under this term. It is to be observed that the apostle makes two general categories – terrestrial and celestial bodies, and shows the distinctions of organization subsisting between the members of each – men, beasts, fishes, birds, and the sun, moon, stars; and that he also shows the distinction between the two categories regarded as wholes. “The glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is different.”
———————-
Wesley's Notes
15:40 There are also heavenly bodies – As the sun, moon, and stars; and there are earthy – as vegetables and animals. But the brightest lustre which the latter can have is widely different from that of the former.
Mike,
You and Terra have turned into lunatics due to your unscriptural thoughts and posting.
It is clear to see that you have fallen away from saying Angels have bodies and are only concentrating on the ONE verse in the WHOLE Bible that mentions Spiritual Bodies.
And even that you get completely wrong.It says, MAN will get a Spiritual Body.
And Terra, where does it say that Man will become like Angels…
Once again you have made that up….
Scriptures says 'And we will Judge Angels'God does not make Man into Angels, because Angels are 'robotic' servants of God, and MAN is made in the Image of God.
Making Man like the Angels would ve a perversion of the Image of God.
Scriptures says 'we' will be raised into a Spuritual body. This is a new creation.
The 'we' of them will become heirs to God, dwell in Heaven with God and be continually in his direct presence, this position is above the ordinary Angels.
Your unGodly thoughts have brought you to dillusional depth such that even simple Scriptures delude you into the stupor that Scripture talks of.
How do i outline again what Paul says such that you and Terra can understand simple, basic, elementary, trivial, first grade Scriptures.
There are earthly bodies…Man, Animals, Fish, Birds.
There are Celestial bodies…Sun, moon, stars.
Each body has it's own qualities.Stop here…
Is there mention of Angels, Spirits of any kind?
–
–
–
– pause for thought….
–
–
No.Ok, read further,..
There is a natural body…flesh and blood.
And there is the Spiritual body…
Does this mention Angels, Spirits….No. Paul says a man has both Flesh and Blood, and Spirit.Paul goes on to explain….
For the natural body…is sown…but it is the Spiritual body that is raised.Where is there mention of Angels, Spirits???
Nowhere. Paul speaks of MAN, flesh of man, perishes, and is raised to a Spiritual State….the new creation…Where, anywhere, in what Paul says, is there mention of Amgels?
Nowhere. Paul talks of MAN….Jesus, his body sown in flesh, died, raised in Spirit….the FIRST, preEminent new creation, the Spiritual Man.
And others after him, called by God, the 'we' predestined by God, will also become 'Spirit men' as Jesus is.You have stopped trying to say Angels have bodies because there is not a single Scripture verse that says or alludes to Angels with Spiritual bodies.
Instead you argue about MAN having a Spiritual body AFTER he is raised from the dead….And do you understand that even this is pertaining to the PreDestined ones, the 'we' of Scriptures, not ALL mankind.
God's purpose was for mankind to occupy the earth, and his purpose must be fulfilled.
If we are all to become Spiritual bodies then, even then, many, the mass, will live on the earth, the [relatively] few, 144,000, will go to Heaven.
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 06 2010,13:06) Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 06 2010,02:07) Paul says 'Celestial bodies' that are Sun, moon and stars. And earthly bodies, that are man, animals, fish and birds.
Barnes' Notes on the BibleThere are also celestial bodies – The planets; the stars; the host of heaven; Corinthians 15:41.
And bodies terrestrial – On earth; earthly. He refers here to the bodies of human beings, beasts, birds, etc.; perhaps, also, of trees and vegetables. The sense is, “There is a great variety of bodies. Look upon the heavens, and see the splendor of the sun, the moon, and the stars. And then look upon the earth, and see the bodies there – the bodies of people, and brutes, and insects. You see here two entire classes of bodies. You see how they differ. Can it be deemed strange if there should be a difference between our bodies when on earth and when in heaven? Do we not, in fact, see a vast difference between what strikes our eye here on earth and in the sky? And why should we deem it strange that between bodies adapted to live here and bodies adapted to live in heaven, there should be a difference, like that which is seen between the objects which appear on earth and those which appear in the sky?” The argument is a popular one; but it is striking, and meets the object which he has in view.
The glory of the celestial is one – The splendor, beauty, dignity, magnificence of the heavenly bodies differs much from those on earth. That is one thing; the beauty of earthly objects is another and a different thing. Beautiful as may be the human frame; beautiful as may be the plumage of birds; beautiful as may be the flower, the fossil, the mineral, the topaz, or the diamond; yet they differ from the heavenly bodies, and are not to be compared with them. Why should we deem it strange that there may be a similar difference between the body as adapted to its residence here and as adapted to its residence in heaven?
—————————
Vincent's Word StudiesCelestial bodies (σώματα ἐπουράνια)
Not angels. For the meaning of σώματα bodies is not limited to animate beings (see 1 Corinthians 15:37, 1 Corinthians 15:38), and “the scoffers who refused to believe in the existence of the future body would hardly have admitted the existence of angelic bodies. To convince them on their own ground, the apostle appeals exclusively to what is seen” (Godet). The sense is, the heavenly bodies, described more specifically in 1 Corinthians 15:41.
Bodies terrestrial (σώματα ἐπίγεια)
Looking back to 1 Corinthians 15:39, and grouping men, beasts, birds, fishes under this term. It is to be observed that the apostle makes two general categories – terrestrial and celestial bodies, and shows the distinctions of organization subsisting between the members of each – men, beasts, fishes, birds, and the sun, moon, stars; and that he also shows the distinction between the two categories regarded as wholes. “The glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is different.”
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Wesley's Notes
15:40 There are also heavenly bodies – As the sun, moon, and stars; and there are earthy – as vegetables and animals. But the brightest lustre which the latter can have is widely different from that of the former.
shimmeryou to only see what you want is it ??
1Co 15:35 But someone may ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
1Co 15:36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
1Co 15:37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
1Co 15:38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
1Co 15:39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
1Co 15:40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
1Co 15:41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
1Co 15:42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
1Co 15:43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
1Co 15:44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being” ; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.
1Co 15:46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
1Co 15:47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven.
1Co 15:48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven.
1Co 15:49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven.
1Co 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
1Co 15:51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—
1Co 15:52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
1Co 15:53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.
1Co 15:54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.”is this scriptures still talks about your half truth??
Pierre
Terrarica, my half truth ? I was only showing what the bible commentaries say. Most of them agree with JustAskin about celestrial bodies being the sun moon and stars etc, is all I was showing ?
Shimmer,
From the first day this thread was set i came here to set out the table of truth. But the Princes of Persia withstood me twentyone days and now the Prince of Greece has joined him.
And behold, Shimmer, one of Godly leaning has come to help me, for i was left alone with them with no one to uphold me against forces of darkness and ignorance.Now it has been shown to them what will take place to the preDestined of Man in the transition of time, in the latter days, when they shall be converted to Spiritual bodies and sit in judgement over Angels and men.
Yet they swagger and sway likedrunken men, unable to read and understand plain scriptures, alluding to Angels with bodies inthe Scripture verses where there is not one single reference to such.
Yet more, even taking manking becoming the new creation of Spiritual Man after the likeness of Christ, as being proof that Angel Spirits have bodies…where Paul makes no such reference.
One of them even copying my observations and pkaying them back as if it were his own observation and is berating me for not knowing it…how strange…Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 06 2010,06:22) Terrarica, my half truth ? I was only showing what the bible commentaries say. Most of them agree with JustAskin about celestrial bodies being the sun moon and stars etc, is all I was showing ?
Shimmer!
1Cr 15:40 [There are] also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial [is] one, and the [glory] of the terrestrial [is] another.celestial bodies are Spirit bodies, while terestial are earthly bodies. JA is not right, Mike is…
Then it goes on about other bodies…like the moon etc.
1Cr 15:41 [There is] one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for [one] star differeth from [another] star in glory.
Then it explains it what will happen when we die
1Cr 15:42 So also [is] the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Cr 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
here it is made perfectly clear…..
1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.
1Cr 15:46 Howbeit that [was] not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1Cr 15:47 The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.
1Cr 15:48 As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.
1Cr 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Cr 15:50 ¶ Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
Peace Irene
Quote (shimmer @ Dec. 06 2010,06:06) And why should we deem it strange that between bodies adapted to live here and bodies adapted to live in heaven, there should be a difference, like that which is seen between the objects which appear on earth and those which appear in the sky?”
Thank you Shimmer,This from Barnes sums it up quite nicely. This is also how I see it.
mike
Quote (JustAskin @ Dec. 06 2010,06:13) Mike, You and Terra have turned into lunatics due to your unscriptural thoughts and posting.
And that's where I stopped reading JA. If you want your points to be read and addressed, then lose the insults. Act like a Christian for a change.mike
Quote (Baker @ Dec. 06 2010,07:27) 1Cr 15:44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. here it is made perfectly clear…..
Hi Irene,You are right – it is made perfectly clear. JA is thinking that those of us who are raised to a heavenly hope and are therefore like the angels will need spiritual bodies. But he doesn't think those who are already heavenly beings like angels have spirtual bodies. That's strange IMO.
Maybe he thinks that those raised to a heavenly being will still be “part human/part angel” or something.
Anyway, it stands to reason that a HUMAN BODY would encase a HUMAN BEING. And a SPIRITUAL BODY would encase SPIRIT BEINGS. It would make no sense to encase a human in a spirtual body or an angel in a human one.
A SPIRITUAL BODY would be designed to encase a SPIRIT BEING.
Luke 20 NIV
34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.If those raised to heaven are “like the angels” and therefore need an imperishable, immortal, heavenly, spiritual body like Paul says, then why would anyone think that those who already ARE angels wouldn't also need this same kind of body?
peace and love,
mike
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