Do spirits have bodies?

Participant

Mike……..how many times do i have to tell you the Definition of Spirit (IN its (SIMPLEST MEANINGS) is “INTELLECT”, i am not going to debate with you about a scripture where it is says THEY “THOUGHT” THEY SAW”, when not one scripture in the entire bible say anyone every truly “SAW a SPIRIT BODY . I can't help it if you keep trying to make something that was not real into something that is real, that is your problem, and if that is you only hope of proving there is a “SPIRIT BODY” you lost the argument before you ever started. IMO

Mike like so many do they take “HINTS” and make doctrines out of them and instead of producing “SPECIFIC PROOFS” they use suppositions and force the text to meet those suppositions. Look just show us “ONE SCRIPTURE THAT SAY THERE ARE SPIRIT “BODIES”, it just that simple, in fact just show the word “SPIRIT BODY” in all the Bible. And you have won your argument, or just admit your maybe wrong on this. IMO

peace and love………………………………………………………….gene

January 14, 2012 at 7:17 pm#272323

Blocked

Luke 24:37
They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a spirit.

Gene, could you tell us what the bolded, supersized word above MEANS in this scripture? Can you give us the DEFINITION of that word?

Let me remind you what Toby said, in case that helps you:
“But, on a simple matter – Spirit, in context of Luke's verse, does mean 'Spirit Being'. I would have thought that was obvious. Now you see where Gene is wrong, you are right…….”

Gene, is Toby and EVERYONE ELSE IN THE WORLD wrong on this while you alone are right?

Just give us the DEFINITION of the bolded word “spirit” in the scripture above, okay?

January 14, 2012 at 8:28 pm#272348

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2012,23:37)

wakeup

Quote

You have the father, you have the son.

if you believe the father you also will believe the son ,if you believe the son you also will believe the father ,and end up only to have your faith got it ,

we do not HAVE the father or the son

Pierre

Terra.

John12:44.He that believed on me ,believed not on me,but on him that send me.

because Jesus is Gods word.

wakeup.

January 14, 2012 at 10:19 pm#272368

Participant

Hi Wakeup.

I'm not sure I understand how what you are saying has anything to do with Spirits having Bodies. Are you posting in the right thread?

Please tell me this: Are you a Christadelphian?

Thank you Wakeup.

January 14, 2012 at 10:32 pm#272370

Participant

Hi Gene.

I think you are reading Scriptures, and seeing constant references to 'Angels' as Spirits – that come into and go, out of the physical world, that contain enormous energy, power, intelligence and God given authority, to act within boundaries. (what Mikeboll self-defines as 'A Body' – and you have just almost concurred with, by the way!)

You say that there are Angels with bodies, but, (Technical point here!) you say that we can't see them, because of the light Spectrum they exist in. This is new Science!!! Can we call it the 'GENE-OME'. Gene, please step away from such nonsense. You were doing well – keep doing well!

You rightly say that a Spirit is Intellect. But you ignore the Power, Force and Energy.
Angels are extremely Powerful and Intelligent beings.
Satan, or: 'The Angel who came to be known as Satan', is the most Powerful Spirit Being less than God Almighty and Jesus Christ.
Gene, it is this same Satan, that you do not believe exists, that is influencing your own Spirit, to not believe he exists.

I detect that you have enough intelligence to understand Analogy, Metaphor and Symbolism. You rightly say, that symbolically speaking, the Power and Authority of God Almighty, is represented by the Seven Candlesticks held by the Lamb of God (Jesus). You notice that the Candlesticks are at one time in Jesus' right hand, and at another time around the Throne of God…. Ok, are there two sets of Candlesticks? No, they are one and the same set. The power and authority of the Spirit(s) of God – The Holy Spirit of God (as one) is given to Jesus Christ – only while He rules, to being about the new order of things.

GENE, the Spirit Of God is represented as Seven Candlesticks – visualised symbolically, as of a real material thing in the Material World. Because this is how God showed the Hebrews to represent his Power and Authority, in his Earthly Temple. Just as he chose to represent Human type forms for his Cherubims.

How would you visualise a 'non-material entity' in the physical world?
Answer: with things known by the visualiser: Worldly material symbols.
Gene, what does the Cross symbolise?
How can you represent the pain, suffering, anxiety, death and victory over death, of a (100%) innocent man?
Draw me a picture of it, show me.
No!!
Why not?

Ok, so an answer to the Angels seen the lad:
What is a Spiritual Eye? What can you see with a Spiritual Eye? what can you perceive with a Spiritual Mind?

The point of that story was that if you truly trust in God, then no opponent can overcome you – no army can assail you. Did Satan (!) not try to tempt Jesus to jump of the top of the Temple. What did he assure Jesus: wasn't it that a Host of Angels would hold him up. What did Jesus say to the Jews at one time, “Do you not think that if I called upon my Father he would not send a mighty host of Angels to defend me?”

Jesus was always speaking from the Spiritual point of view, which is why he was often misunderstood. Just like things are misunderstood in this forum, especialy when things of the Spirit are discussed – 'the mind of the many, are of the things of the flesh' (That is, Earthly, Physical, and Material things – not the Spirit).

So, Gene, to you, there are Angels, Spirits, Demons, Man, Jesus, God, and a special Spirit case of the Holy Spirit. Feel free to delete anything of error here.

Gene, an Angel IS a Spirit. An Angel is NOT 'a Spirit with a Body with Spirit in it'.
An Angel is a Messenging Spirit from God. It can Materialize a Physical Form – in the Physical World, and generally, a form like that of Man, to whom it is sent.
A Demon is a Fallen Angel and cannot Materialize a body of any form – it can only inhabit another Living Body, and influence the resident Spirit in that body.

January 14, 2012 at 11:02 pm#272371

terraricca

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 15 2012,13:28)

Quote (terraricca @ Jan. 14 2012,23:37)

wakeup

Quote

You have the father, you have the son.

if you believe the father you also will believe the son ,if you believe the son you also will believe the father ,and end up only to have your faith got it ,

we do not HAVE the father or the son

Pierre

Terra.

John12:44.He that believed on me ,believed not on me,but on him that send me.

because Jesus is Gods word.

wakeup.

wakeup

Jn 12:44 Then Jesus cried out, “When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me.
Jn 12:45 When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me.
Jn 12:46 I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

just like I said,

Pierre

January 14, 2012 at 11:31 pm#272376

Wakeup

Participant

Quote (toby @ Jan. 15 2012,08:19)

Hi Wakeup.

I'm not sure I understand how what you are saying has anything to do with Spirits having Bodies. Are you posting in the right thread?

Please tell me this: Are you a Christadelphian?

Thank you Wakeup.

Toby.

I dont belong to any religion.
I am just a follower of Christ.(Christian.)

January 15, 2012 at 4:54 pm#272479

Blocked

Quote (toby @ Jan. 14 2012,15:32)

Hi Gene.

I think you are reading Scriptures, and seeing constant references to 'Angels' as Spirits – that…………..act within boundaries. (what Mikeboll self-defines as 'A Body' – and you have just almost concurred with, by the way!)

Gene often concurs with me. He just won't do it purposely or willingly.

Gene, are you ready to give us the DEFINITION of “spirit” in Luke 24:37?

I only push this so hard because I know that once you acknowledge to all of us what you already know to be the truth in your own mind, I can help to open a whole new spiritual world for you – and in doing so, help YOU to understand what “spirit” really means in many scriptures.

peace,
mike

January 15, 2012 at 5:05 pm#272481

Participant

Toby………..The difference i see from you view is the basic understanding of what Spirit (IS). I mean (ALL SPIRITS) even GOD. Spirit is nothing but (INTELLECT) Period it has (NO) POWER of IT OWN. It can only influence and thereby control what it is (IN) . What it is in is its POWER SOURCE therefor if it is in a man it can only effectively use that power source. Both clean and unclean spirit, and includes HOLY (Special) Spirit also. You spoke of the seven Spirits of GOD, i had mentioned before, but notice they exist without power, they simply give off light (intellect) so to speak, now notice when it comes to Jesus who has these seven Spirit in his control they have to be coupled with HORNS (POWERS) and the HORNS show he not only has the Spirits INTELLECTS (EYES) of GOD, BUT Power is also granted to him to exercise them. Spirit is what life is, if it were removed from mus we would just die. So it does have power to sustain Life and certainly effect it. But that is limited to the POWER Base it is (IN)> IMO

As far as a SATAN (BEING) goes i do not believe there is such a “BEING” or PERSON that is outside a person own mind , I believe Jesus was not truly talking to a Satan “Being” but and (INTELLECT) that was (IN) him as IN all MEN, Jesus had just fasted 40 days and nights He was Hungary and HIS OWN MIND thought he could turn those rocks into Bread if he wanted to, But the holy spirit with POWER had been given Him , He knew what he could do. He was at war with himself his own human nature as a Man , and he by the WORD of GOD overcame that Nature it was also the same with the other tests of Protection as well by bowing to his own aspirations of his self. This is what lead his mind to those thing that was an ADVERSARIAL SPIRIT (INTELLECT) that WAS (IN) HIM< And He mastered It, and when he did that Spirit he saw fall like lighting (Suddenly) fell from its high place in his mind to the earth low place.. He had then OVERCOME HIMSELF, PUTTING HIS WILL TO DEATH, He had MASTERED that which CROUCHES or the Door of all mens hearts. And than after that He was sent out into the world to Preach the Gospel to the world. Satan is not a real "Being" (IT) is not a he or a she, (IT) is and (IT) a "TYPE" (adversarial type of intellect) that is in ALL Mankind and when that Spirit goes against GOD'S WORD (IT) Must be MASTERED becasue it effects all our WILLS. Yes even Jesus' WILL, But he "MASTERED" (IT) SO (IT) could not control HIM . IMO

Toby……….I think our biggest difference is i see Spirit as ASPECTS of a BEING, while you seem to see them as COMPLETE beings, I believe each Spirit (intellect) add a part to what a Being is and hundreds or thousands can exist (IN) a Being at one time and each add thought to that Being in a cumulative sense and this goes also with the SEVEN SPIRITS of GOD, they each individually do not compose ONE GOD but together they DO. I believe Yahweh is the Power Source of His seven Spirit Each of the Seven Spirit of GOD feed into his intellect and they are (IN) all creation in one form or another, They are his EYES Just as it say they are and they go to and fro in all the earth and that includes the Spirit (INTELLECT) of an ADVERSARY. It also goes to and fro in all the earth along with the rest of those Spirits of GOD

I maintain Spirit is Spirit no matter what KIND or TYPE (IT) is. You have power to invite any of them into our existence and the only one that it can rule over is the one it is (IN) or it is Powerless and simply goes about in ARID PLACES LOOKING for REST (IN) a LIVING BODY that gives it POWER to exercise it self.

Spirit IMO is not a complete “BEING” on it's Own, It must be (IN) a Being in order to produce an effect. It has to be (IN) Matter of Some kind. I do not see Spirit as individuals at all, I see them as “TYPES” or KINDS of INTELLECTS and as a result they can control what they are in. And if they are not in something they simply can do nothing . Our war is not with extremal forces it is with internal forces at war in our minds,

Eph 6:12……> For we “WRESTLE” no against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against “SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS” in (HIGH) places. These hight place are in the MINDS of MAN.

We are in a SPIRITUAL WAR Not a PHYSICAL one.

Toby this is just the way i now see it does not mean i could not wrong Brother.

peace and love to you and yours………………………………gene

January 15, 2012 at 5:17 pm#272484

Blocked

Quote (Gene Balthrop @ Jan. 15 2012,10:05)

Toby……….I think our biggest difference is i see Spirit as ASPECTS of a BEING, while you seem to see them as COMPLETE beings,

Actually Gene,

You see spirits as “complete beings” in the form of angels. You just won't accept the scriptures that say angels ARE spirits.

The Israelites were stubborn humans.

Angels are ministering spirits.

Gene, how is it that you can read my first sentence above, and know I mean “human BEINGS” (even though I only said “humans”); but you can't read the second sentence and know Paul meant “spirit BEINGS”?

This is quite a conundrum within your brain, and I can't for the life of me figure out why you are so stubborn about it. It seems you won't be satisfied until everyone on this site thinks you have a learning disability.

I await your DEFINITION of the word “spirit” in Luke 24:37.

January 15, 2012 at 5:39 pm#272487

Participant

Quote (mikeboll64 @ Jan. 16 2012,02:54)

Quote (toby @ Jan. 14 2012,15:32)

Hi Gene.

Gene often concurs with me. He just won't do it purposely or willingly.

Gene, are you ready to give us the DEFINITION of “spirit” in Luke 24:37?

peace,
mike

Mike…………..Just show (ONE) SCRIPTURE that SAYS SPIRIT is a BODY or the WORD “SPIRIT BODY” Other wise its all conjecture and not based on any facts you have not fact MIKE, no matter how much you yak about it Just produce your “EVIDENCE” that will do LETS all SEE IT> An pleas do use Luk 24 :37 as a Proof text when the whole context say there was NO SPIRIT BODY at ALL there No Matter how much anyone “THOUGHT” they saw something that was not there, Evidently you simply do not believe Jesus who said a Spiirt does NOT HAVE A BODY AS YOU SEE I HAVE, So you “ASSUME” He was saying Spirit HAVE A kind DIFFERENT “BODY”. So where did Jesus say that at MIKE, Where did he say Spirit have a Different “KIND OF BODY”>

In fact just produce ONE Scripture that say any Spirit has a Body of any KIND that will Do, that is all i ask you for all along, but as of yet not so much as ONE SCRIPTURE, Have you Produced to support you “ASSUMPTIONS” .

I do realize it would open up all KINDS of things, “FALSE THINGS” to my mind if i by into your false assumptions, Just as most all of Christendom and MYSTERY RELIGIONS has also bought into all kinds of Meanings of what Spirit IS. I could see Demons and Devils and Satan's running around jumping in and out of people and see Ghost and apprehensions. Yes i could even believ that souls exist with out bodies , in the neither world, and are being punished also and i could even believe in Purgatory as the Catholics do and on and on it goes.

Fact is as i have said all along “SPIRITS ARE NOT BODIES OF ANY KIND THEY ARE WHAT IS (IN) BODIES” just that simple nothing “MYSTERIOUS” about it , SPIRIT are (INTELLECTS) That exist IN BODIES but they themselves have NO BODY at all> Wisdom is not a She, and adversarial Spirit or a (SATAN) is Not a He or a She, Because scripture does personifies these thing as a Person does not make them PERSONS or completer beings as a person either.

Mike if you truly want to understand scripture you need to truly consider what i am telling you. And many scripture will start to make clear sense to you, I think you would be the one that would be surprised.

peace and love to you and yours……………………………..gene

January 15, 2012 at 5:49 pm#272488

Blocked

Luke 24:37
They were startled and frightened, thinking they saw a spirit.

Gene, could you tell us what the bolded, supersized word above MEANS in this scripture? Can you give us the DEFINITION of that word?

Let me remind you what Toby said, in case that helps you:
Spirit, in context of Luke's verse, does mean 'Spirit Being'. I would have thought that was obvious.

Gene, how long will you have us thinking that you are learning disabled?

January 15, 2012 at 6:22 pm#272493

Participant

MIke…………….Calm down don't have a fit over this, You keep asking me for a the definition of what Spirit (IS) I have told you hundreds of times it seams like, SPIRIT, (IS) (INTELLECT), that produces (COGNATE THOUGHTS) No more no Less. They come in all TYPES and KINDS, Wisdom, Truth, Adversarial Ha Satan), clean and unclean . These are NOT INDIVIDUAL “BEINGS” according to the dictionary definition of what a Being (IS). They are attributes of BEINGS they exist (IN) Beings, they are not Being (IN) Beings) as YOU suppose they are by saying they are bodies, when in fact they are not Bodies of any type at all.

Now please don't tell me again i haven't given you the meanings of Spirit, I might not have given you ” WHAT YOUR PERSONAL MEANINGS ARE” of what Spirit is but i have given you MINE>

Now Mike if you are so sure Spirits Could have been seen by the apostles then produce ONE SCRIPTURE where THEY HAVE BEEN SEEN> Hay here is one you might twist up to mean Spirits have Bodies , what about the Mount of transfiguration, try that one . But Luke is no proof of any kind that Spirit having “BODIES” to no one, there is NO PROOF THERE MIKE. IMO

peace and love to you and yours……………………………………..gene

January 15, 2012 at 10:32 pm#272519

Participant

Concerning the Spirit, Isaiah 11: 2 states that the Spirit (of the Lord) is:

1) The Spirit of Wisdom and Understanding.
2) The Spirit of Counsel and Might.
3) The Spirit of Knowledge and Fear of the Lord.

This is the Spirit of the Lord.

Accordingly then, each point given (six in all described) is a Spirit in itself. Yet they are, in fact, one Spirit. However, unlike the debacle of the Trinity, this is to be understood as 'Facets' of the Spirit. Therefore the Spirit of the Lord, The Holy Spirit, 'embodies' all six facets (in the same way one might say that a man can be a Father, Husband, Son, Uncle, Boss, etc).

Other Scripture verses outline the facets in different ways, e.g. Revelation and the seven candlesticks and 1 Corinth 12:7-11 expands on these calling them 'Gifts'.

“Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of working, but it is the same God who inspires them all in every one. To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. To one is given through the Spirit the utterance of wisdom, and to another the utterance of knowledge according to the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the ability to distinguish between spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.

All these are inspired by one and the same Spirit, who apportions to each one individually as he wills. For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body — Jews or Greeks, slaves or free — and all were made to drink of one Spirit.”

Indeed, verse seven explicitly states that they are 'Manifestations of the one Spirit'. In other words, the Spirit embodies its gifts in the flesh of those who are to receive it.

If the Spirit is already a body, does it then 'split itself up – and enter the individual bodies of each person'? Or is Spirit therefore like a super-fluid that can be many places at the same time, and yet still be 'One Spirit'?

January 16, 2012 at 4:50 am#272632

Participant

Quote (Wakeup @ Jan. 15 2012,09:31)

Toby.

I dont belong to any religion.
I am just a follower of Christ.(Christian.)

OK Wakeup. God bless you.

January 16, 2012 at 5:57 am#272641

Participant

Hi Gene.

Imagine this thread as a jigsaw puzzle.
You certainly are fitting many pieces into the same correct places as myself.
This is to be applauded – and I do so to you.

I still feel you are operating from the human earthbound perspective, that exactly mirrors that of the Sadduccees in the time of Jesus. (Correct me if I'm wrong). They, too, did not believe in Angel Spirits. However, even as you write what you write, I detect that you are struggling to read and assimilate aspects of Scriptures that mention Angels and their appearing (Being visible in the form of a man – looking like 'a Son of man') and speaking to man (Vibration of air molecules causing sounds/voices) – and manipulation of non-living things (Moving the huge rock from the face of the tomb of Jesus).

Gene, Angels are Immensely Powerful Beings. However, they can only use their power as directed by God. 'Man was created a little lower than the Angels'. This means mankind is far less powerful, being completely restricted to the physical realm by virtue of being in a flesh body, and being subject to death.

Gene, a testament to what I just said, is in a verse that you yourself quote: 'God makes his Angels Spirits'.
Add the second line of that verse: 'And his 'Ministers' a flame of fire'.

Now, the very fact that you read this contrary to what it actually says, is enough to see that you do it because you cannot read it any other way due to your belief. The verse is explicitly clear without contradiction. It says that God's 'Messengers' are Spirits. And God's 'Ministers' are Flames of Fire (Seraphims). Angels, too, minister to mankind (Hebrew 1:14).

Gene, you MAY say that Angels are not BEINGS by your understanding – but you are wrong that they do not have power of their own – and to deny the existence of Satan.

Satan. Do not get hung up on the name. The name is, in fact, a Label. It describes an attitude – a Spirit of opposition, Resister Of Truth/Adversary of God. By rights, the fallen Angel is called 'The Satan' but for convenience we just write 'Satan', he/it being the 'Chief Of Adversaries', in the same way we just write 'God' meaning 'The Chief of all gods'.

Gene, it is no wonder you need to deny so much of Scriptures. The Sadducceen attitude cannot assimilate the non-earthly (Heavenly) aspects of the Spirit world but only that of the Earthly (Demonic). Certainly then, the Demonic Spirit does not have power of its own and can only influence another. Nor does the Demonic Spirit possess the ability to manifest a body but can only inhabit another existing living body IF that living body invites it in. Certainly, if you limit your view of Spirit to such Demonic Fallen Angels, then you are right.

And Gene, please do not say that I am saying that Heavenly Spirits have bodies – I said that they can Manifest a body – a non permanent body – when they are in the Physical World so that they can minister to mankind as Form to Form, a Human-like being to a real human person. These spirits can in fact appear as anything they choose but, (silly) why would it appear as a talking car, or a tree or a bowl of water? Common sense says a person (Like Mary, The Shepherds, the Disciples) are far more likely to believe an Angel in the form of a human being than if it appeared as anything else!

Quote

We are in a SPIRITUAL WAR Not a PHYSICAL one.

Gene, I agree.

January 16, 2012 at 9:03 am#272652

journey42

Participant

Quote (toby @ Jan. 16 2012,15:57)

Hi Gene.

Imagine this thread as a jigsaw puzzle.
You certainly are fitting many pieces into the same correct places as myself.
This is to be applauded – and I do so to you.

Gene, a testament to what I just said, is in a verse that you yourself quote: 'God makes his Angels Spirits'.
Add the second line of that verse: 'And his 'Ministers' a flame of fire'.

Gene, you MAY say that Angels are not BEINGS by your understanding – but you are wrong that they do not have power of their own – and to deny the existence of Satan.

Quote

We are in a SPIRITUAL WAR Not a PHYSICAL one.

Gene, I agree.

Wow Toby.

I haven't read all the reply's back and forth on this thread, so forgive me if I'm misinformed, or if I've misunderstood you, but what I just read was really good.

This may of been quoted already but it is just so clear

1 Corinth 15:39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fish, and another of birds.

1 Corinth 15:40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.

This tells me that whether you are spirit, or flesh, you have a body.

January 16, 2012 at 4:03 pm#272694